Crime scene tape and Haleigh's house

[elle1919]

I do know they kept Michelle Young's home for 13 days.

^^^going to look up Michelle Young

 

[faefrost]

Okay..thinking. LE doesn't know "what the crime is." Could this mean that somebody had inconclusive results on a polygraph? Two possibilities come to mind:

1. Possible deception about being out of the home that night: In this case investigators can't know what happened to Haleigh since she had no supervision (intruder abduction or homicide)

2. Possible deception about kidnapping scenario: In this case investigators suspect foul play and are waiting for more clues about where Haleigh can be found.

"Recovery" (as opposed to rescue) of Haleigh would be key in either homicide scenario, as this would yield clues as to what scenario took place. This would lead to murder weapon, etc.

If LE has not released the home and is holding it as a crime scene, after this amount of time, it pretty clearly means that they are not buying a word of what anybody is saying in this case. They in all liklihood have some major issues or discrepancies with the stories coming out of the principles, and quite possibly do not believe the actual crime is what people are saying it is. At the very least I have the horrible feeling that they do not really believe this is a kidnapping.

So that house is the only witness they can trust and believe, to determien what really happened to little Hayleigh.

 

[elle1919]

I do know they kept Michelle Young's home for 13 days.

O/T very sad that story. I can see why LE would keep that home however. There was a dead mother, strangled in the house. I don't see a parallel to this case.

 

[faefrost]

Initially, if Ronald gave LE consent to search, then LE could search. If LE asked if they could take a picture of Haleigh, cassettes, and tape, then LE did so and with Ronald's blessing. Ronald would have signed an acknowledgement of consent to search. As for the gun listed in the incident report; LE could take that gun because there was a recorded threat from Ronald to kill anyone he thought to have taken his daughter. That would have also been for Ronald's protection as well.

When LE started taking items other than what was mentioned in the incident report, I would bet anything there was a warrant so as to protect the chain of custody of any evidence found. JMO

LE did not and does not need consent to search. The location is a crime scene. As such it is literally and legally OWNED by the chief police officer until such time as LE chooses to release it back. They do not need consent, they do not need warrants. A crime was reported to have taken place at and within that location.

This is one of the more obscure legal powers of our emergency services. A similar legal ability exists for the fire department. At the time of a fire or a report of a fire the property is legally owned by the Fire Chief. This gives the Chief the legal authority to enter, evict/forcefully evacuate/investigate/etc. It does not revert to the resident or property owner until such time as the Fire Chief releases it. And it is an absolute power that I believe comes from executive branch authority. It is not one that is easily or readily challenged in court.

 

[dunlurken]

Hey! If I were LE, let them sleep in their tents until someone breaks. It won't be Ron.

 

[lady_bugs]

O/T very sad that story. I can see why LE would keep that home however. There was a dead mother, strangled in the house. I don't see a parallel to this case.

I don't either but that's the only home i can come up with that they have kept along time.

Both very sad case's.

 

[RoseRed]

They do not have to stay in a tent. It's their choice. Both Misty and Ron have family members who would gladly take them, from what I've heard. Is JR also sleeping in the tent? If so, then these people have no scruples. Where is junior?

The last we read junior is staying in the home of his paternal grand parents not in the tent. I assume they do have some scruples.

 

[LaLaw2000]

LE did not and does not need consent to search. The location is a crime scene. As such it is literally and legally OWNED by the chief police officer until such time as LE chooses to release it back. They do not need consent, they do not need warrants. A crime was reported to have taken place at and within that location.

This is one of the more obscure legal powers of our emergency services. A similar legal ability exists for the fire department. At the time of a fire or a report of a fire the property is legally owned by the Fire Chief. This gives the Chief the legal authority to enter, evict/forcefully evacuate/investigate/etc. It does not revert to the resident or property owner until such time as the Fire Chief releases it. And it is an absolute power that I believe comes from executive branch authority. It is not one that is easily or readily challenged in court.

When and if anyone is charged, we will see release of information in regards to the house under the Sunshine law. I will be interested in seeing the paperwork of items seized, and what heading it comes under.

 

[sega-sleuth]

I know this has been brought up in some other threads... but it has been bugging me.... I have not said anything about it till now....

THE "LOCKED" Door...... ok.. I live in a mobile home it is a 1988 (3 bedroom, 2 bath) front door (with porch) and back door (carport) we NEVER use the "front door" we have lived here for 5 years... my hubbys puter is actually in front of the front door.... it is in the living room.... we just have ALWAYS used the back door.... it is on the carport side and opens into the laundry room then to the kitchen..... just easier for us..... well.... my POINT is..... we have dead bolt and key lock on the "front door" ...... we NEVER, I mean NEVER check it to "make sure" it is locked..... it just ALWAYS is!

I just find Ron's statement that he checked it "Daily" was strange..... why? if you NEVER use the door then why have to check it?

Bolded by me............I thought his comment on checking the door to make sure it was locked was strange also, if you never use a door then why continue to check it? It had a lock that Haleigh could not reach per Ron, so this is red flags to me!!! i.e checking a door that is not used just makes you go hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Leila]

It's highly unusual for LE to withhold a house as a crime scene for this long. When you couple this with the fact that no one has been cleared, despite polygraphs being given, it makes the picture clearer.

LE knows a crime has been committed as there's a child missing. Yet, they don't know if the crime is an abduction or a homicide. With no one being cleared, it means that LE believes that one or more individuals aren't being truthful about what happened. LE may have found evidence that suggests a different scenario.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Originally Posted by RJA00
one of the officals explained it has a crime has happened and until they find the crime they will not release it they will keep for as long as needed
i found it he says it about 2:15 in the video
http://www.clipsyndicate.com/publish/video/846128

If it were this easy, why didn't they seize Drew P.'s home and Craig S.'s home? They could still have control of both of those!

 

[Manny]

I am only half way serious, but maybe they should take a page from the Anthony case and not put psychics at the bottom of the pile. Sounds like they need one.

 

[elle1919]

If it were this easy, why didn't they seize Drew P.'s home and Craig S.'s home? They could still have control of both of those!

Exactly...

 

[SuziQ]

LE doesnt know what the crime is because they dont know what happened to haleigh
the crime of kidnapping is there, but they dont know whether she's alive or not, so the crime of murder is up in the air, that is what i got from the LE's statement

ITA, there's a good chance there was no kidnapping at all. For instance, if this was a murder and her body was hidden from the get go. All LE knows at this point is Haleigh is missing. LE may actually know more but just don't have a body yet. Sometimes LE knows plenty but they often try to find a body before making an arrest.

 

[Amster]

How long did LE keep the VanDams out of their home when Danielle was taken? Lundsfords? Klaas?

It does seem to be a long time to keep the home off limits...

And....how often was the trash taken out? It seems they are implying it was rarely...like taking out the vacuum to clean the car?

 

[Tichad3]

I know this has been brought up in some other threads... but it has been bugging me.... I have not said anything about it till now....

THE "LOCKED" Door...... ok.. I live in a mobile home it is a 1988 (3 bedroom, 2 bath) front door (with porch) and back door (carport) we NEVER use the "front door" we have lived here for 5 years... my hubbys puter is actually in front of the front door.... it is in the living room.... we just have ALWAYS used the back door.... it is on the carport side and opens into the laundry room then to the kitchen..... just easier for us..... well.... my POINT is..... we have dead bolt and key lock on the "front door" ...... we NEVER, I mean NEVER check it to "make sure" it is locked..... it just ALWAYS is!

I just find Ron's statement that he checked it "Daily" was strange..... why? if you NEVER use the door then why have to check it?

Bolded by me............I thought his comment on checking the door to make sure it was locked was strange also, if you never use a door then why continue to check it? It had a lock that Haleigh could not reach per Ron, so this is red flags to me!!! i.e checking a door that is not used just makes you go hmmmmmmmmmm

I don't think it's strange. I do the same thing. You can never be "too safe". Or it could be my OCD.

 

[elle1919]

How long did LE keep the VanDams out of their home when Danielle was taken? Lundsfords? Klaas?

It does seem to be a long time to keep the home off limits...

And....how often was the trash taken out? It seems they are implying it was rarely...like taking out the vacuum to clean the car?

Oh I see what you mean about the trash being taken out the back door! I take out the trash(well my son does)at least 1x a day....course we are a family of six and they are a family of 4 but I get your drift.

 

[faefrost]

If it were this easy, why didn't they seize Drew P.'s home and Craig S.'s home? They could still have control of both of those!

Because in both cases there was no testimony, direct evidence or claims that the crime occured within the home. Everyone may suspect it, but LE would have to have some degree of proof to declare it an official crime scene,and take control.

This is similar to the Caylee Anthony case, where since the initial assumption was the crime had occured after the daughter and grandaughter had departed the grandparents home, that house was not considered an official "crime scene" just a source of evidence, until much later.

In the case of Hayleigh, the claim from the begining is that the home was broken into and the girl abducted from her bed. That makes the house the scene of a crime from the word go, and the initial scene of a crime in progress (if it is an abduction). And LE can act as they have.

 

[CeeKer]

I don't read anything into the house being held this long.

LE has said "family is extremely cooperative".
Cummings family has shown NO interest in returning to the trailer.
Therefore I think it's a non-issue.

IF the Cummings were "screaming" for their trailer back, and LE wasn't releasing it, I would have a totally different opinion.

It seems possible to me, from their actions (including, but not limited to, praising law enforcement every chance they get, as recently as last night through the preacher on NG), that the Cummings family might also want to preserve the evidence in the trailer.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Because in both cases there was no testimony, direct evidence or claims that the crime occured within the home. Everyone may suspect it, but LE would have to have some degree of proof to declare it an official crime scene,and take control.

This is similar to the Caylee Anthony case, where since the initial assumption was the crime had occured after the daughter and grandaughter had departed the grandparents home, that house was not considered an official "crime scene" just a source of evidence, until much later.

In the case of Hayleigh, the claim from the begining is that the home was broken into and the girl abducted from her bed. That makes the house the scene of a crime from the word go, and the initial scene of a crime in progress (if it is an abduction). And LE can act as they have.

Ah, OK. Makes sense now. Thanks!