CT- Annie Le, missing from Yale, thread #7 FOUND DECEASED

[TexasLil]

I disected frogs, cats (yes, plural), snakes, and my senior year was a cow's brain.

Cow's brain? Don't tell me Dr. Guffy was your teacher.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I have a question that one of our scientists may know the answer to. I'm not sure how I feel about this dismemberment thing, yet. However, if Annie scratched the perp, could they have cut off her fingers and put them into an autoclave to sterilize the dna underneath of her nails? If only fingers were cut off, would that be considered dismemberment? I seriously have no idea the technicalities with the term dismemberment. I know it's a stretch...just thinkin'.

Also, Annie was asphyxiated. This does not necessarily mean she was strangled. She could have had a rag put over her nose/face, she could have been injected with something to choke her, she could have had something stuffed inside of her mouth...there's many different methods that could be used to asphyxiate. Just wanted to throw that out there.

And I hope this next question doesn't get lost in this thread...but...do we know that every person that had access to that area was given a lie detector test - or was the only person to have a poly the poi? We do know that around 200 people were interviewed by police. I wonder if RC's girlfriend & family members were given the poly. What about if the girlfriend took RC's lab attire and is the actual one that did this...maybe RC knew something, which would throw his poly off? That's a stretch...but just maybe, ya never know.

Does anyone find it ironic that a letter was sent to the State of CT by the Jovin family and all of a sudden they crack down on the POI? I do. Is there a reason the 2 adults, JH & RC were seen getting into a car on SUNDAY with suitcases and it takes law enforcement a couple of days to get a search warrant to search his residence? What was in the suitcases? Could there be evidence that is not obtainable now?

Editing b/c I originally put Levin. It's the Suzanne Jovin family's letter to CT that I am referring to.

 

[TonyGatto]

I looked through the online court file last night for their current county, but did not find a restraining order. Just the traffic infraction.

Sounds like this stuff may have happened when he was under 18 which means it would be sealed.

 

[sniperacer]

No problem at all!

Hey LABrat :crazy: -

I've heard there were 5 folks in/out the basement lab around the time in question.

Does that number sound reasonable? Would there always be one person?

 

[TonyGatto]

I have a question that one of our scientists may know the answer to. I'm not sure how I feel about this dismemberment thing, yet. However, if Annie scratched the perp, could they have cut off her fingers and put them into an autoclave to sterilize the dna underneath of her nails? If only fingers were cut off, would that be considered dismemberment? I seriously have no idea the technicalities with the term dismemberment. I know it's a stretch...just thinkin'.

Also, Annie was asphyxiated. This does not necessarily mean she was strangled. She could have had a rag put over her nose/face, she could have been injected with something to choke her, she could have had something stuffed inside of her mouth...there's many different methods that could be used to asphyxiate. Just wanted to throw that out there.

And I hope this next question doesn't get lost in this thread...but...do we know that every person that had access to that area was given a lie detector test - or was the only person to have a poly the poi? We do know that around 200 people were interviewed by police. I wonder if RC's girlfriend & family members were given the poly. What about if the girlfriend took RC's lab attire and is the actual on that did this...maybe RC knew something, which would throw his poly off? That's a stretch...but just maybe, ya never know.

Does anyone find it ironic that a letter was sent to the State of CT by the Levin family and all of a sudden they crack down on the POI? I do. Is there a reason the 2 adults, JH & RC were seen getting into a car on SUNDAY with suitcases and it takes law enforcement a couple of days to get a search warrant to search his residence? What was in the suitcases? Could there be evidence that is not obtainable now?

Police don't do lie detector tests willy nilly -- got to get the technician, etc -- only for real suspects. I would guess he's the only one who was poly-ed. And don't forgert NOBODY IS COMPELLED TO TAKE A POLY TEST, EVER. A court couldn't even order it. They simply don't recognize them.

Who is Levin family and what is this letter?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Anything interesting in the photos?

No, just general pics of the bridesmaids. It's interesting for me, though, b/c it helps with the faces to figure out whose MySpace pages belong to whom.

Puffster, have any of your sources let onthat another person may know something? Possibly even know something "during" instead of "after the fact"? Anything suspected? If it's not just a rumor, if it's really true that she was dismembered, and if she was severely dismembered (not just a couple of cuts), then there would have been alot of blood. Blood spurts...could actually fly due to pressure buildup, if in fact she was dismembered in teh general sense that someone thinks of the definition. If that's true, wouldn't the perp have needed assistance in cleanup and sterilization? Something just isn't sitting right with me.

 

[gogrannypop]

I disected frogs, cats (yes, plural), snakes, and my senior year was a cow's brain.

We did pregnant pigs in high school Anatomy. (1970's)

 

[Coolmomof4]

Just a thought or two about the supposed scratches on RC's chest...

That to me would point toward a sexual assault. If he had just choked her, wouldn't the scratches be on his hands?? If his hands were around her neck, she would be grabbing at his hands, not scratching at his chest?

 

[postdoc]

Wrong. Research on mice is not regulated extremely tightly and barely regulated at all. They are not covered under the animal welfare act
these facilities can go through thousands of mice and rats a month.

The only regulations are not really regulations but a set of standards of care that only apply to federally funded projects (and often student work is not) and those are loose and self reported.
If you or I or any amateur with no credentials or professional or academic with credentials, wished to buy 100 lab mice and see how long it took to blind them by dipping them in an ammonia solution, or how they reacted to pain of needles stuck in them or how long they lived in a hot oven -- we would not be breaking any laws. (don't get me wrong all of that sounds terrible to me)

I think this whole animal rights thing for this case is a compelty off the tracks and not supported by a shred of evidence. everything points to unrequited obsession or less likely but still possible, a badly ended affair. Animal rights activism is something in its lighter forms most people would agree with and in its more sever forms something most people consider fringe, ie most people thing it is wrong to beat a dog, but not wrong to own aquarium fish or step on a bug. It is a potlitcal issue though and I think people are sticking their poltics into a crime which has nothign to do with animal rights, animal welfare or either the sober or nutty people concerned with it.

I agree the animal rights issue is a stretch, but I would not be surprised if was an angle used by RC to commincate with Annie, and perhaps there was no other common ground between them.

Regarding regulations for working with rodents - these are very strict. In order to work with animals, Annie would have to have undertaken specialized training and certification, and had her name placed on any "animal protocols" relvenent to what she was doing. She simply would be unable to undertake animal research without being approved by the proper regulatory commitee (IACUC specifically).

Like I said, animals are killed as part of research, but everything that happens to that animal up to and including euthanasia is done to minimise distress to the animal. This goes right down to issues such as cage overcrowding, maintaingws clean bedding, fresh water and food. In many cases, it is particularly advantageous for the animals to be as free from stress as possible, otherwise this can introduce unwanted artifacts into any data gathered.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Police don't do lie detector tests willy nilly -- got to get the technician, etc -- only for real suspects. I would guess he's the only one who was poly-ed. And don't forgert NOBODY IS COMPELLED TO TAKE A POLY TEST, EVER. A court couldn't even order it. They simply don't recognize them.

Who is Levin family and what is this letter?

OMG - I'm reading something about Carl Levin and put the wrong name! What a moron I am! It's Suzanne Jovin I was referring to. I feel so bad. I'm editing my post now...

 

[razzyberry]

This guy sounds borderline personality disorder or bipolar or both. Sounds like he took his job really serious and wanted all the rules and his rules followed too. I think he just snapped, rage, killed her. Non sexual. (supposedly her clothes were on) Not Premediated. If he was planning to kill her he would not have done it where he worked with tons of people around.

Thats just what i think.

 

[Coolmomof4]

We did pregnant pigs in high school Anatomy. (1970's)

I did too... forgot about that, and frogs, fish, worms, grasshoppers, pigeons, cats, rats..... I ended up giving up my dream of being a researcher, and became a teacher instead.

 

[Sola.N]

I agree with this. I also notice that people, both men and women, are even less cool with seeing pretty, feminine females hold power or excel "too much."

Exactly. That is even more the case where I live in the South. I suspect it's also a "class" phenomenon.

A lot of people love and admire the pretty, smart girl, but there are also those who resent the hell out of her. And in some cases, that resentment turns pathological.

 

[Waddles]

Just a thought or two about the supposed scratches on RC's chest...

That to me would point toward a sexual assault. If he had just choked her, wouldn't the scratches be on his hands?? If his hands were around her neck, she would be grabbing at his hands, not scratching at his chest?

There might have been a fight before the asphyxiating- he had scratches on his arms too-and she may have used a lot of force through his clothes so scratched through his clothes to his chest or gone under the shirt - but yes I'm surprised his face was not clawed at too

 

[TonyGatto]

OMG - I'm reading something about Carl Levin and put the wrong name! What a moron I am! It's Suzanne Jovin I was referring to. I feel so bad. I'm editing my post now...

haha no prob...i do that stuff all the time. it could have been worse!!!!

 

[f_stills]

I am still interested in the animal-- specifically mice-- detail, especially since members here have started discussing the Daly article at the New York Daily News about the mice emails. Several members in a previous thread also discussed lab procedure in relation to mice. Since reading that, every mice detail reported in Le case has stuck out to me. Especially since news sources lately have not been emphasizing an unrequited love/crime of passion type aspect of this case (with CBS going as far as quoting someone on there being “no romance” involved), but rather have repeatedly mentioned the animals.

The Fox 61 News report floated the theory that there might be an animal “abuse” angle to the case. We know Clark is an animal lab technician who cleaned cages and took care of mice (along with having many pets at his home, including a caged pit bull). Another NYDN article stated that Clark “does menial work with animals in a lab that does gruesome animal testing.” In the AP article that christee linked to last night, mice are mentioned in relation to Le: that she worked in a laboratory in which experiments with mice take place, and that her body was located in the basement, which the writer states houses mice used for scientific research by a number of Yalies.

A New York Times article published yesterday afternoon also mentioned mice twice in relation to Le, specifically stating that she did experiments with mice and then specifically quoting a fellow student who said she was often seen transporting the mice on a cart between her office and the research building.

Are those just random details? The mice email story was published AFTER the articles and video clips just discussed were. NYDN specifically remarked that the animal testing was “gruesome,” and then the next morning came out with the information about emails and mice protocol. We know Le’s research work was on metabolic changes in proteins… yet news sources seem to be emphasizing that she worked with mice. Maybe there really is something to the animal abuse/mice angle that the news sources have info on but cannot yet discuss in full, but are making sure to mention in their stories.

I apologize if that sounds too ridiculous!

 

[Rainsbee]

Sounds like this stuff may have happened when he was under 18 which means it would be sealed.

I filed a restraining order on behalf of a minor child once (my daughter) and it is public. It went under my name. If she was a minor, then it would be under her parent's name.

 

[kikid]

this raised my brow a bit, it's a quote from their myspace page...

I'm 22 years old and recently moved to Middletown, CT with my wonderful boyfriend Ray (we are just together for financial reason though hahaha).

...........

I have realized in the last few weeks the kind of people I want and need in my life. I have no time for your drama or your BS take it somewhere else. It is not my problem that you have no life! I am completely done! Don't come to me when your "friends" stab you in the back I don't want to know about it cause I don't care. Other than that I am just being myself enjoying life and trying (it's hard) not to let petty people get to me.

................

And I know you wouldn't hesitate to jump on a plane to kick the trashemia infested skanks *advertiser censored*.

makes me wonder exactly when this was written and who she was referencing exactly.... the part about being together for financial reasons was curious as well, wondering if that's what was said of her by someone??

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Police don't do lie detector tests willy nilly -- got to get the technician, etc -- only for real suspects. I would guess he's the only one who was poly-ed. And don't forgert NOBODY IS COMPELLED TO TAKE A POLY TEST, EVER. A court couldn't even order it. They simply don't recognize them.

Who is Levin family and what is this letter?

Right, I know this, just wanted to throw it out there. Question that's in the back of my mind is I think they only administered the poly to him b/c they suspected him due to the scratches involved. I know it can't be used against him in court, but wondering why he would consent to one in the first place...unless his lawyer told him to. Also, was his lawyer present when they came to take him in last night? Do you know? Back to the poly question...maybe they didn't like all of his answers so they performed a poly due to the surrounding circumstances, to help lead them in an appropriate direction. What about if the others just "lied" better, therefore polys weren't administered to them...or maybe they just didn't give consent. I'm kind of stuck on somebody else being involved, also...just in the back of my mind, that is.

 

[t93]

I was in an advanced science class in high school where we dissected pregnant animals. Our animals came from shelters. This was late 80's.


I can't imagine Annie Le being a target for animal abuse because she worked under someone else's orders-wouldn't that person take the brunt of the blame?

Seems to me that either she was chosen to bear the brunt of the blame in his mind because she was the smallest and easiest in his mind to bully, or it was an excuse to hurt someone whose personality did not mesh with his. Was her sense of humor too light in his eyes, making a mockery of what he perceived to be serious business?