Still Missing CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #58

[citygirl]

The Judge's reprimand of JS as being 'inappropriate' was a brilliantly executed take down of behaviour that doesn't belong in the Courtroom. It was imo mansplaining at its worst and kudos to the Judge for stepping in. IMO this is just another example of JS being unfamiliar with courtroom behaviour and protocols in Fairfield Country. Perhaps in his usual courtrooms he can be a bombastic bully to expert witnesses but Judge is having none of that in Stamford. See Afternoon Session today starting at 17:45.

To be noted is that even after the Judge strongly reprimanded that JS DID NOT APOLOGISE TO THE EXPERT WITNESS. Nope. No Apology. Classless Clown imo.

Now if Judge can just resolve the Translator volume as today in the afternoon session it was out of control and imo was distracting the expert witness which was unfair and unfortunate!

The judge is very measured and patient with the defense. Awaiting the day he reaches his limit.
MOO.

 

[citygirl]

So grateful for all of you on this board.Every time I think I've got it you always go me one better!
You are the bestest.
See you on the flip side.
MOO

 

[DeDee]

Tough one but if I had to guess I would guess blunt object found in garage AND FD knife (he was obsessed with knives by all accounts). If JD scooted under the Range Rover as suspected then he might have grabbed something to hit her from the side to get her out from under the vehicle (so, could be broom, shovel or rake too but my guess is some implement that was in the garage that had length to reach under the vehicle including even a lacrosse stick with the knife used after he had proximity to the Victim). Pure speculation as I don't think we know yet as ME hasn't yet testified.

I've had unexpectedly cold weather. In the South, we virtually shut down when a film of ice covers the interstates. Our markets are out of food. I've missed reading some posts etal and I need some help.

Jennifer's cup of tea was still warm on the kitchen counter when LA arrived. Someone, please, juxtapose the significance of this fact, in a few sentences, with an alleged vicious attack on Jennifer Farber that left behind copious amounts of stains from her on the garage floor. Also, who placed Jennifer's purse on the mudroom floor? And, about the picture taken of all 3 of them, JFD, FD, MT, along with children, shown in court, does that mean Jennifer was once friends with the accused, MT, or no, not at all? TIA

The ordeal over the paper towels is important and fascinating, and spooky as the lacrosse stick that's mentioned above, but not everything can be precisely explained within this apparent violent CS.

While I do feel our alleged murder victim and beautiful, soft-spoken mother of five, Jennifer Farber, may have attempted to protect herself from an assault and later alleged dismemberment by shimmying under the Range Rover, as evidenced by the front and side blood stains on it, but her killer likely did not allow her to get far, or all the way under it, because he was on the move with an intentional purpose to end her life. She had to be terrified beyond measure as life with her precious children flashed through her mind.

Police suspect the folding hunting knife found in one of the trash bins might have been the murder weapon unless they've changed their theory.

 

[afitzy]

I've had unexpectedly cold weather. In the South, we virtually shut down when a film of ice covers the interstates. Our markets are out of food. I've missed reading some posts etal and I need some help.

Jennifer's cup of tea was still warm on the kitchen counter when LA arrived. Someone, please, juxtapose the significance of this fact, in a few sentences, with an alleged vicious attack on Jennifer Farber that left behind copious amounts of stains from her on the garage floor. Also, who placed Jennifer's purse on the mudroom floor? And, about the picture taken of all 3 of them, JFD, FD, MT, along with children, shown in court, does that mean Jennifer was once friends with the accused, MT, or no, not at all? TIA

The ordeal over the paper towels is important and fascinating, and spooky as the lacrosse stick that's mentioned above, but not everything can be precisely explained within this apparent violent CS.

While I do feel our alleged murder victim and beautiful, soft-spoken mother of five, Jennifer Farber, may have attempted to protect herself from an assault and later alleged dismemberment by shimmying under the Range Rover, as evidenced by the front and side blood stains on it, but her killer likely did not allow her to get far, or all the way under it, because he was on the move with an intentional purpose to end her life. She had to be terrified beyond measure as life with her precious children flashed through her mind.

Police suspect the folding hunting knife found in one of the trash bins might have been the murder weapon unless they've changed their theory.

Hope you made it through to the other side of your local weather situation! Watching the South cope with ice and snow is similar imo to watching folks in San Francisco run to put on their down vests if the temps hit 50 degrees! Each region has their weather challenges and right now on the East Coast is mostly bitterly cold temps and ice left over from the last storm with a bit of snow predicted for tomorrows court date during the morning rush hour. So, like the Judge said today in Court, the opening could be delayed beyond the established open of 10:15am for tomorrow! Weather hasn't been predicable recently in terms of snowfall estimates so we shall see what happens.

I don't recall when LA returned to Welles that day but the significance of the warm tea comment I believe was to show the recent presence of JF at Welles around the time LA showed up and put a time range around the tragic time of death. JF was due to head to city for 2 appts (late morning and early afternoon iirc) but as we know she made neither but given traffic should have left Welles around 10am at the latest imo (assume first appt was around 11am possibly on UES but we don't have appt location info so this is a guess).

The Welles neighbour security cam showed JF Suburban leaving for school drop off at NCCS, showed JF returning from NCCS and then again shows the Suburban allegedly driven by FD with JF body iirc at 10:25 on the neighbours cam.

Speculation: So, if JF was having her tea before her drive into the city and LA found it still warm when she got there idk but tea doesn't say warm forever so perhaps the attack started around 10am or shortly thereafter? Assume air temp of low 60s on the murder date am would have the tea temp going from roughly boiling (190-212 degrees) down to something definitely above room temp to still be warm so idk maybe you would still have warm to the touch tea 15 min after boiling it (pure guess based on experience).

Could JF have just been sipping her tea but not yet finished her granola bar as she was heading out the door? LA said she put away the granola bar so that tells us JF didn't finish her normal breakfast routine imo. If the tea was still warm I think it also shows the short time gap between FD leaving and LA arriving which perhaps shows the knowledge FD had of the daily Welles schedule? Hard to say but we knew FD planned his timing carefully. Had he watched the routine at Welles while sitting in his truck on the side road/Frogtown that JF would have gone down to take children to school? Most likely or he could have simply known the school start times and done the route himself in truck to figure out JF schedule imo. I'm hoping law enforcement has other security footage of FD on the bike so that the timeline is firmed up.

The bag on the floor significance is trickier as I think it baffled LA a bit too as sometimes JF might have just taken wallet and keys and not entire bag. LA did seem to say that bag being left on floor was odd so perhaps JF heard something in the garage and perhaps was in process of packing up her bag for the day and then dropped her bag on the floor to check out the noise and was attacked once she peaked out into garage to check out the unknown noise? IDK.

Or, bag possibly could have been left on counter by JF and was later put on the floor by FD as he might have needed space that was taken up by bag on counter or perhaps been looking for keys or something else in her bag and he left the bag on the floor as he was in a hurry? I don't think we know if the bag was tested for DNA so far as I know but that info is still in process in the trial presentation.

We do know that FD at some point (most likely after murder in garage imo) came back inside Welles either to look for something, get cleaning supplies and paper towels and/or look through the bag. Perhaps FD already had the keys (did she leave them in vehicle because she knew she was coming right out after changing?) and so he just put bag on floor to remove it from where it was as he needed space for whatever reason? IDK.

I don't recall a picture of the family that included both JF and MT. I do recall a picture of FD with his children and MT and her daughter that was shown in court and was on social media ages ago which I believe was from 2017. So far as I understand, FD introduced his two older boys to MT on one of their many solo water-skiing trips to FL (year unknown exactly but seems like 2015/2016 could be early point of affair and LA I believe met MT in 2017 for the first time in FL and to her it seemed the older boys knew MT and her daughter quite well by that point).

The 'moving paper towel rolls' I agree with you is impt but I can't say I've solved that puzzle other than to possibly think that FD had left a roll at the Welles house after having touched it and then LA picked it up to return it to its proper location? We know that FD was moving quickly so if the attack wasn't planned to be as bloody as it seemed to be and clean up took much longer than expected and he knew he had to get out of Welles before LA or cleaner showed up then he must have been moving frantically to escape and perhaps that is why the paper towel blood was was left and bag was moved and tea/granola bar were left out?

IDK, there has been some great ideas on the paper towel switcher-ooo here so perhaps read those smart ideas and see which theory works the best for you. IIRC the roll had blood on the inside with FD DNA as well as DNA of LA. The large bundle of paper towels had 12 rolls which per LA had been recently replenished by her in the pantry and which was depleted by the time of her arrival at Welles. This speaks to the issue of volume of blood loss that needed to be cleaned up and we had previously heard of the bloody tee shirt found in one of the earlier AA documents. ME testimony should clear this up.

I don't think the knife theory has been abandoned yet but we haven't heard from the ME yet in Court to go through the estimated amount of blood, the partial bloody footprint of Chuck Taylor sneakers and other human remains found in the garage. I seem to recall mention of side garage door being open so I'm curious if others think FD came in through that door or exited through that doo but why was it left open? Was FD inside garage and hiding perhaps behind Range Rover when JF pulled in with the Suburban or did he wait on side of house and come in behind JF driving the Suburban as she came back from drop off? We know that the Suburban liner was missing and found in Hartford iirc. But, did FD attempt to clean the liner? We also seem to be dealing with FD wearing gloves, possibly in multiple layers as different types of gloves were found in the black bags recovered on Albany. There were some great posts on this issue today so check out those posts.

Agree with you that the terror of JF must have been real as who expects to find someone in their garage after coming home from school drop off? Was what she heard the garage door opening or side door shutting? What brought her to the garage as we knew she hadn't finished breakfast yet. Or, did FD come inside and pull JF into garage? I do wonder if he made the garage noise intentionally to bring her out of the house as perhaps he was afraid she could activate the alarm. So far as we know we don't even know if any aspect of the alarm system was activated. She must have just been making and having her tea when the brutal attack and murder happened in the garage. Such an unnecessary tragedy. Simply heartbreaking to even be typing this all out.

 

[afitzy]

Agreed. Again my own personal outrage. So dehumanizing.

But I am reminded once again that this trial isn't for justice for Jennifer, it's too late for that. This is about justice really for MT and I hope she gets hers. Complete loss of the freedom she's been flaunting.

While painful to hear Jennifer diminished in court to a toothbrush, MT will be exposed as a small dark soul for all time.... and Jennifer's unquenchable spirit will triumph, in the lives of her children.

Even when it looks like evil is winning, it never does ultimately.

JMO

Agree.

It is still chilling to contemplate the hate in the souls of FD, MT and KM that any of them thought the answers to their life choices was the murder of JF?

MT could have walked away at any time from FD, but never did. Nope, she continued to hook up with him even after the arrests and after having been told by the Court to not see him.

I was reading the other day where MT allegedly called FD family member in Greece after the arrests and told that person she still loved FD. IDK, but if having your lover arrested for felony murder doesn't get you to rethink your relationship goals (and being arrested yourself for conspiracy murder) then I'm not sure there is much hope ever for MT. IMO she is simply lost, heartless and soul less individual who is as evil (or more so imo) than FD. Or, could MT have made this call to let FD know she was still in agreement with the alibi script and so that he didn't turn on her? I'm sure at that point Mama Troconis being the advanced ninja street fighter that she is imo had alerted MT to the fact that FD most likely would or could turn on her! IDK, what a group of totally deplorable human beings as frankly one is worse than the next and so its no mystery to me that they are all wrapped up in this conspiracy to murder JF.

All three just seem like evil lost souls with no moral compass and worthy occupants of the prison cells that they imo deserve to inhabit.

MOO

 

[Niner]

Friday, January 19th:
*Trial continues (Day 6) (@ 10:15am ET) – CT – Jennifer Rebecca Farber Dulos (50) (May 24, 2019, New Canaan; still missing) – *Michelle C. Troconis (44/now 49) (Dulos’ GF) arrested & charged (6/1/19) & arraigned (6/3/19) with tampering with or fabricating physical evidence & hindering prosecution. Plead not guilty. $500K bond. Posted bond (on 6/3/19). These charges were dismissed (8/28/20) & recharged below.
*Charged (9/5/19) & arraigned (10/4/19) with tampering with evidence involving the borrowed car from work colleague. Plead not guilty. $100K bond. Posted bond (on 9/5/19). Off GPS 4/6/23.
*Charged (1/7/20) with conspiracy to commit murder. Plead not guilty. $2M bond. Bond reduced (1/8/20) to $1.5M & bonded out (on 1/9/20). Off GPS 4/6/23.
*Charged (8/28/20) with 2nd degree hindering prosecution, tampering with physical evidence & conspiracy to commit tampering with physical evidence. No plea entered yet. $500K bond. Posted bond. Off GPS 4/6/23.
The declaration of death for Jennifer was officially issued by Judge William P. Osterndorf on October 24, 2023.
Jury Selection began on 10/4/23 & ended 10/26/23. Started off with 6 jurors & 4 alternates. (6 men & 4 women). As of 1/4/24 2 more jurors were excused. 1/4/24: 6 jurors & 2 alternates. (4 men & 4 women). 1/10/24: 6 jurors & 5 alternates (no idea of gender).
Jury Selection (2nd one) began on 1/9/24 & ended on 1/10/24. 1 alternate juror (male) dismissed (1/17/24). 6 jurors & 4 alternates.
Trial began on 1/11/24. (will last about a month to 3/1/24)
Superior Court Judge Kevin Randolph presiding for trial. Assistant State’s attorney Sean McGuinness & Supervisory assistant State’s attorney Michelle Manning & defense attorneys Jon Schoenhorn & Audrey Felson.
Bond info & Court info from 6 3/19 thru 12/6/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-11 (10/4-10/26/23) & thru 1/4/24 & 2nd Jury Selection Day 1-2 (1/9 & 1/10/24) & Trial Day 1-4 (1/11-1/17/24) reference post #167 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...w-canaan-24-may-2019-arrests-58.701181/page-9
1/18/24 Thursday, Trial Day 5: State's witness: Kristen Madel, an analyst with the State forensic science lab.
For more info see post #194 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-canaan-24-may-2019-arrests-58.701181/page-10
Trial continues on Friday, 1/19/24.

 

[Megnut]

The purse.

It may be a matter of direction!

We've been trying to figure out how her purse got back inside the house if she was attacked in the garage as soon as she arrived back home.

I think this accounts for the purse:

Busy morning, no nanny, scooting everyone out the door. Makes tea, sets out granola bar, grabs purse --

Realizes she doesn't need it.

Leaves it just inside the door and leaves with the children for school....

Her purse is found exactly where she left it.

JMO

 

[DeDee]

Hope you made it through to the other side of your local weather situation!

Thank you. All is well. The informative reply is appreciated and respectfully edited for focus and brevity.

I don't recall when LA returned to Welles that day but the significance of the warm tea comment I believe was to show the recent presence of JF at Welles around the time LA showed up and put a time range around the tragic time of death.

LA's testimony was she went to the Welles home to tidy the children's bedrooms by making their beds before departing Welles for the drive to their school for pickup by noon.
To maintain warmth of the tea provides the killer little time for the crime and also leave the home before LA arrives. 10:25 + 15 minutes to keep tea tepid could place LA at the home as late as possibly 10:40 unless ...?

Maybe the murder occurred closer to the time when Jennifer returned home from the school drop off. He wouldn't dally while knowing LA would soon be on her way. Can the warm tea be explained as Fotis staging it along with the granola bar as if to trick those investigating into believing Jennifer made it safely inside her home before she disappeared herself from the abandoned Suburban location? He didn't know it'd be warm when found.

<>The bag on the floor significance is trickier as I think it baffled LA a bit too as sometimes JF might have just taken wallet and keys and not entire bag.<>

Since Jennifer would be departing soon, she might not leave her handbag inside the larger vehicle because didn't LA explain JFD would prefer to taking the Rover that day as it's easier to park while in the city?

We do know that FD at some point (most likely after murder in garage imo) came back inside Welles either to look for something, get cleaning supplies and paper towels and/or look through the bag. <>

The number of missing paper towel rolls is astonishing. 2 missing pillows is perplexing. Was Jennifer eventually suffocated a pillow, before or after the knife was used, then placed onto the 2 taped trash bags? How was he sure he could manage lifting dead weight up to the height of the Suburban's back compartment? Is he a weight lifter?

I don't recall a picture of the family that included both JF and MT. <>

Thank you for affirming Jennifer was not included in the group snapshot presented in court. It is ludicrous that an evil FD thought 5 young Dulos children would be alright without their lovely mother. She was right to be fearful.

We know that FD was moving quickly so if the attack wasn't planned to be as bloody as it seemed to be and clean up took much longer than expected and he knew he had to get out of Welles before LA or cleaner showed up then he must have been moving frantically to escape <>

Shoe print stains weren't found on the interior flooring so he kept the alleged assault contained to the garage as much as possible but not without leaving behind incriminating prints and body matter. Is it possible a taser was also used for incapacitating? He had to gain control straight away once the crime commenced. Tase her, stab and while she's trying to dodge the sharp edged knife, then possibly suffocate, then ziptie her hands? #JennifersLaw

<> This speaks to the issue of volume of blood loss that needed to be cleaned up and we had previously heard of the bloody tee shirt found in one of the earlier AA documents. ME testimony should clear this up.<>
There were some great posts on this issue today so check out those posts.

I hope to find time for GrayHughes videos and reading the many great posts here.

<> What brought her to the garage<> She must have just been making and having her tea when the brutal attack and murder happened in the garage. Such an unnecessary tragedy. Simply heartbreaking to even be typing this all out.

Were his arms, hands, chest photographed asap?

Bloody zip ties and a French bicycle: Court records detail …​

KIRO 7 News Seattle

www.kiro7.com

Investigators learned during the investigation that Troconis accompanied Fotis Dulos on May 29 when he took Gumienny’s Tacoma to a car wash in Avon, where he paid $250 in cash to have the truck cleaned and detailed. While he drove the Tacoma, Troconis followed in a black Chevy Yukon.

 

[afitzy]

No snow visible at 7:45 EST so maybe court will start as scheduled at 10:15 EST.


Weather

 

[nodamselindistress]

Maybe maybe maybe we can get a full 5 hours worth of testimony today?

10:15-11:15 1 hr
11:30-1:00 1.5 hr
2:00-3:15 1.25 hr
3:30-4:45 1.25 hr

Assuming, of course, JS limits his blather

 

[Megnut]

Maybe maybe maybe we can get a full 5 hours worth of testimony today?

10:15-11:15 1 hr
11:30-1:00 1.5 hr
2:00-3:15 1.25 hr
3:30-4:45 1.25 hr

Assuming, of course, JS limits his blather

Yes, only if JS sits down for five of the hours.

But of course sadly I can't prevent his standing. He's mounting apparently the only defense strategy he has. What's that word?  Bloviate.

JMO

 

[afitzy]

Maybe maybe maybe we can get a full 5 hours worth of testimony today?

10:15-11:15 1 hr
11:30-1:00 1.5 hr
2:00-3:15 1.25 hr
3:30-4:45 1.25 hr

Assuming, of course, JS limits his blather

From your mouth to gods ear! This lack of pace is going to push trial to April!

 

[afitzy]

Yes, only if JS sits down for five of the hours.

But of course sadly I can't prevent his standing. He's mounting apparently the only defense strategy he has. What's that word?  Bloviate.

JMO

Since his motion regarding dna and blood effectively rendered the very human Victim in this case to the status of inanimate object, I do think it only fair to remove his name and assign an inanimate object to him!

Don’t know which object to choose though? Any ideas? Ideas?????

On a more serious note, the bloviating imo has to be better managed by the Judge imo and more state objections are needed to stop the false statements and interruptions. Managing the record for the Judge is tricky with a bloviator imo as appeal risk is real and frankly inevitable in this case unfortunately. But the judge should do something to stop the intentional stops that happen as soon as a witness gains momentum and state has 10 min of uninterrupted time. It’s become on obvious bush league tactic at this point and I just wish judge would say, “sit down” to TP!

What TP (my new abbreviation for JS - guess what it might be!) did yesterday to the state expert to slow her speech and entire presentation was absolutely intentional, unprofessional and frankly plain mean. Make no mistake that TP did it intentionally.

Judge stepped in yet the comments about slowing down HARASSMENT imo continued. Can you imagine giving highly technical statements for the record and being subject to bullying tactics and even being able to think? It was shameful and imo the Judge didn’t do enough. Witness did great but you could see her having to work hard. Games have to be stopped by the Judge imo!

 

[nodamselindistress]

TP - Love it! It certainly fits.

 

[waldojabba]

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ne...conis-trial-day-5-jennifer-dulos-18614411.php

I wasn’t able to listen much yesterday but sounds like despite the tedious way the data was presented, it was a very productive day.
Fotis’ dna on the mud room doorknobs and inside the house on the kitchen faucet - in a house he was never allowed inside of.
JS conceding outside court that something happened to Jennifer due to many swabs being likely her dna.


It’s a long article here are a few quotes :

The evidence painted a grim scene — so much so that Schoenhorn told a gathering of media after the morning proceedings that he concedes something happened to Jennifer Dulos that day.

Well, in my mind, it clearly does show that something happened to Jennifer Dulos in that garage. I'm not disputing that, I've never disputed that, but what that is and how it happened and whatnot, it just remains to be seen. The state has a burden, has to prove something, and we'll see where that goes,” Schoenhorn said.


Madel told jurors that a DNA analysis of a swab taken from a blood-like stain found on a sink spout in Jennifer Dulos’ kitchen showed signs of Fotis Dulos’ DNA profile.


The DNA sample, which Madel said was consistent with two likely contributors, was shown to be 4.3 billion times more likely to have come from Fotis Dulos than an unknown contributor. Madel said this so-called “likelihood ratio” climbed even higher, to 100 billion times more likely to have come from Fotis Dulos than an unknown person, when assuming that Jennifer Dulos was the second contributor

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ne...conis-trial-day-5-jennifer-dulos-18614411.php

 

[afitzy]

NBC CT coverage of yesterday testimony.

TP is staying true to the Deny the Victim strategy and MT not in NC. We shall see how that strategy works for his team in time.

DNA trial summary NBC CT

 

[afitzy]

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ne...conis-trial-day-5-jennifer-dulos-18614411.php

I wasn’t able to listen much yesterday but sounds like despite the tedious way the data was presented, it was a very productive day.
Fotis’ dna on the mud room doorknobs and inside the house on the kitchen faucet - in a house he was never allowed inside of.
JS conceding outside court that something happened to Jennifer due to many swabs being likely her dna.


It’s a long article here are a few quotes :

The evidence painted a grim scene — so much so that Schoenhorn told a gathering of media after the morning proceedings that he concedes something happened to Jennifer Dulos that day.

Well, in my mind, it clearly does show that something happened to Jennifer Dulos in that garage. I'm not disputing that, I've never disputed that, but what that is and how it happened and whatnot, it just remains to be seen. The state has a burden, has to prove something, and we'll see where that goes,” Schoenhorn said.


Madel told jurors that a DNA analysis of a swab taken from a blood-like stain found on a sink spout in Jennifer Dulos’ kitchen showed signs of Fotis Dulos’ DNA profile.


The DNA sample, which Madel said was consistent with two likely contributors, was shown to be 4.3 billion times more likely to have come from Fotis Dulos than an unknown contributor. Madel said this so-called “likelihood ratio” climbed even higher, to 100 billion times more likely to have come from Fotis Dulos than an unknown person, when assuming that Jennifer Dulos was the second contributor

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ne...conis-trial-day-5-jennifer-dulos-18614411.php

So encouraged to see some actual reporting! Thanks for posting.

 

[Diddian]

Thank you. All is well. The informative reply is appreciated and respectfully edited for focus and brevity.

LA's testimony was she went to the Welles home to tidy the children's bedrooms by making their beds before departing Welles for the drive to their school for pickup by noon.
To maintain warmth of the tea provides the killer little time for the crime and also leave the home before LA arrives. 10:25 + 15 minutes to keep tea tepid could place LA at the home as late as possibly 10:40 unless ...?

Maybe the murder occurred closer to the time when Jennifer returned home from the school drop off. He wouldn't dally while knowing LA would soon be on her way. Can the warm tea be explained as Fotis staging it along with the granola bar as if to trick those investigating into believing Jennifer made it safely inside her home before she disappeared herself from the abandoned Suburban location? He didn't know it'd be warm when found.

Since Jennifer would be departing soon, she might not leave her handbag inside the larger vehicle because didn't LA explain JFD would prefer to taking the Rover that day as it's easier to park while in the city?

The number of missing paper towel rolls is astonishing. 2 missing pillows is perplexing. Was Jennifer eventually suffocated a pillow, before or after the knife was used, then placed onto the 2 taped trash bags? How was he sure he could manage lifting dead weight up to the height of the Suburban's back compartment? Is he a weight lifter?

Thank you for affirming Jennifer was not included in the group snapshot presented in court. It is ludicrous that an evil FD thought 5 young Dulos children would be alright without their lovely mother. She was right to be fearful.

Shoe print stains weren't found on the interior flooring so he kept the alleged assault contained to the garage as much as possible but not without leaving behind incriminating prints and body matter. Is it possible a taser was also used for incapacitating? He had to gain control straight away once the crime commenced. Tase her, stab and while she's trying to dodge the sharp edged knife, then possibly suffocate, then ziptie her hands? #JennifersLaw

I hope to find time for GrayHughes videos and reading the many great posts here.

Were his arms, hands, chest photographed asap?

Bloody zip ties and a French bicycle: Court records detail …​

KIRO 7 News Seattle

www.kiro7.com

Investigators learned during the investigation that Troconis accompanied Fotis Dulos on May 29 when he took Gumienny’s Tacoma to a car wash in Avon, where he paid $250 in cash to have the truck cleaned and detailed. While he drove the Tacoma, Troconis followed in a black Chevy Yukon.

I want to weigh in on the warmth of the left-on-the-counter mug of tea as an indicator of how long it sat there before LA showed up. I use an insulated and lidded mug for my own morning coffee. I have a few such mugs that keep the coffee hot for at least an hour, warm for a few more and I have one tall insulated lidded cup (like a thermos with flip up and locking lid) that keeps my coffee hot for a few hours and warm until mid afternoon. That’s the one I use if I am going out for appointments or to run errands. JFD may have used something similar.

 

[Megnut]

LE knows exactly what time JFd returned home, what time her Suburban left the neighborhood, and what time LA first arrived, likely based all on the same CCTV.

FD was apparently very precise on the front end, attacking JFd immediately upon her arrival. Monster.

I quake thinking about how close in time his exodus and LA's arrival were.

I said it upthread -- IMO when LA arrived, JFd's tea was still warm. And so was her blood.

LA may have missed FD by mere minutes.

Imagine if she'd opened the garage door to that.

Two murders and no nanny to save the children...

JMO

 

[afitzy]

I want to weigh in on the warmth of the left-on-the-counter mug of tea as an indicator of how long it sat there before LA showed up. I use an insulated and lidded mug for my own morning coffee. I have a few such mugs that keep the coffee hot for at least an hour, warm for a few more and I have one tall insulated lidded cup (like a thermos with flip up and locking lid) that keeps my coffee hot for a few hours and warm until mid afternoon. That’s the one I use if I am going out for appointments or to run errands. JFD may have used something similar.

Interesting point. Where I am a bit confused is the LA reference to mug I think. Will have to go back and listen again. It’s tough because mug has become generic term and can be used to describe everything from to the insulated items such as yeti and Stanley you are describing I think. Maddening because it makes refining timeline tough but I’m still waiting for more video to place Fd. They have him on bike on video and we haven’t seen that yet. Must be more video coming….. once the bike timing is confirmed it will be easier to put him on timeline in Welles garage. But, we at least have confirm of Jf arrival back to Welles and when the Suburban left to establish clear window. There is no doubt of garage attack as even TP finally acknowledged yesterday on courthouse steps (he will come to regret the courthouse commentary imo but it is who he is imo)!

Just keep thinking about the timeline and given all the horrific details about the cleanup we are getting confirmed, just seems like you are correct that it all might have started sooner than originally placed on the timeline. If JF were wearing tee then perhaps she hadn’t even had time yet to dress for city? Perhaps the children might provide testimony on what she was wearing that day for school drop off?