Identified! CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, May'74 - Linda Sue Childers

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Maybe, but Carmichael was in jail for a couple years in the mid Sixties, in Wisconsin, as per above.

Gah, good point. Excuse my interesting but useless tangent!:blushing:

ETA: This was after he and Amabile were released from prison in Wisconsin. (The article refers to Amabile as being an ex-con who served time in Wisconsin, so he did less than two years for the burglary there, and I suspect Carmichael got the same sentence.) But I think Carmichael may have been back in Mass or Maine in 1966.
 
If somebody could locate some obits with the name LUCILLE Civitelli
or however it is spelled that may help.
To know her last whereabouts? Not sure how to do that?
She would be in her 70's now late 70's right?

The female body was probably her.
The class ring has the initials ILN sometimes they are rearranged
in jewelry.
Not sure why?

sometimes people want the last name initial first
or middle first or last first


maybe this ring was stolen?Considering the source where it was found?
:twocents::banghead:


 
so glad to see some traction here on this thread. grew up in this area and never heard about this story til WS.

something that just struck me as interesting is that i hadn't realized how young carmichael actually was. there is a a lot of mention of him being with a young girl, but he himself was only...24?... when he was killed? our girl would have been closer to his age that i had originally thought...

he certainly had quite the rap sheet for someone so young...
 
If somebody could locate some obits with the name LUCILLE Civitelli
or however it is spelled that may help.
To know her last whereabouts? Not sure how to do that?
She would be in her 70's now late 70's right?

The female body was probably her.
The class ring has the initials ILN sometimes they are rearranged
in jewelry.
Not sure why?

sometimes people want the last name initial first
or middle first or last first


maybe this ring was stolen?Considering the source where it was found?
:twocents::banghead:



She would be in her late 60s; I think she was 22 in 1968. IMO, she and the UID are two different people--she was arrested and incarcerated, so her prints would have been on file and there would be photos of her, which I think someone over the years would have linked to our UID if that was the case. She was supposedly Labbe's girlfriend, not Carmichael's.

I don't have an active Ancestry membership anymore but I would also like to find out if she's dead, alive, etc., if only so we can rule her out.
 
so glad to see some traction here on this thread. grew up in this area and never heard about this story til WS.

something that just struck me as interesting is that i hadn't realized how young carmichael actually was. there is a a lot of mention of him being with a young girl, but he himself was only...24?... when he was killed? our girl would have been closer to his age that i had originally thought...

he certainly had quite the rap sheet for someone so young...

Agreed. I think he met her sometime between his incarceration in Wisconsin in 1964 (when he was 19) and early 1970 at the latest. If he supposedly loved her and they were a serious couple, I don't think it was a super-new relationship. On the other hand, she was allegedly worried about what he was doing and about getting caught. If they had been together for years, I wouldn't think that would be true because he was committing crimes at least as far back as 1964 and she would be used to it.

I guess what I'm saying is that they were probably together for a year or two, max, that she had never gotten in this deep with his crimes before, and that she is probably his age or younger.
 
She would be in her late 60s; I think she was 22 in 1968. IMO, she and the UID are two different people--she was arrested and incarcerated, so her prints would have been on file and there would be photos of her, which I think someone over the years would have linked to our UID if that was the case. She was supposedly Labbe's girlfriend, not Carmichael's.

I don't have an active Ancestry membership anymore but I would also like to find out if she's dead, alive, etc., if only so we can rule her out.

Where are you seeing it was Labbe's girlfriend? The article I read didn't mention that. And anyway, we know how inaccurate media reports can be...

I looked up the 'State Farm' where Lucille was incarcerated. It really was a kind of farm. Very low security, she could've escaped. The woman with Carmichael was using a fake identity, which would make sense if LE was looking for her and knew her name.

It doesn't surprise me at all if they never made the connection. Lucille was arrested in 1968. The remains were found in 1974. There are no fingerprints to run from those remains.

I read a case here on websleuths about a woman who disappeared and wasn't identified for 17 years despite the fact that her remains were found 6 weeks after her disappearance...1 block away. They didn't make the connection. Sometimes LE needs the public's help.

I think Lucy is a strong possibility for our UID if we can't find her anywhere else. I wonder if we emailed the 'state farm' she was sent to ( it's renamed now...a womens correctional facility) , if they would release any info related to Lucy's long ago incarceration...anyone want to try?
 
I had wondered if possibly this Lucy woman could have been a friend of our UID.
 
Here's the article on the state farm where Lucille was sent:

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/10/n...o-its-farm-origins.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Sounds like it was a nice place, especially for a prison.

interesting read! thanks for sharing. i actually grew up in that town. one of my classes in high school actually involved excavating an old schoolhouse site directly outside the fences of the prison yard. sometimes, inmates would come to the fence and watch us work. we were not allowed to talk to them and my guess is they were instructed to not speak to us.

this was in the late 90's/early 00's, a far cry from the time Lucille would have been there, but while the area itself is nice by that time it absolutely looked like a prison with barbwire/fences/guards all around. it was always a little jarring considering niantic itself was a pretty little town on the long island sound.

unrelated but wally lamb actually taught a writing class in that prison for years and released this book sharing some of the inmates' stories. it's pretty amazing.

Couldn't Keep It to Myself: Wally Lamb and the Women of York Correctional Institution (Testimonies from our Imprisoned Sisters): Wally Lamb: 9780060595371: Amazon.com: [email]Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com[/email]/images/I/51rw4KYvYlL.@@AMEPARAM@@51rw4KYvYlL
 
Where are you seeing it was Labbe's girlfriend? The article I read didn't mention that. And anyway, we know how inaccurate media reports can be...

I looked up the 'State Farm' where Lucille was incarcerated. It really was a kind of farm. Very low security, she could've escaped. The woman with Carmichael was using a fake identity, which would make sense if LE was looking for her and knew her name.

It doesn't surprise me at all if they never made the connection. Lucille was arrested in 1968. The remains were found in 1974. There are no fingerprints to run from those remains.

I read a case here on websleuths about a woman who disappeared and wasn't identified for 17 years despite the fact that her remains were found 6 weeks after her disappearance...1 block away. They didn't make the connection. Sometimes LE needs the public's help.

I think Lucy is a strong possibility for our UID if we can't find her anywhere else. I wonder if we emailed the 'state farm' she was sent to ( it's renamed now...a womens correctional facility) , if they would release any info related to Lucy's long ago incarceration...anyone want to try?

She was "alleged" to be Labbe's girlfriend and is said to have shared the same address as him. But yeah, that doesn't mean she was his gf or didn't hook up with GC later:

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/32363406/


http://newspaperarchive.com/newport-daily-news/1968-11-13/page-2


I agree that it seems like she's disappeared, as has Joanne Rainello. To me, that leaves four main possibilities: 1) LC changed her name, 2) she married and changed her name, 3) she is deceased and never had an obit, or 4) she is our UID. All seem possible. I wish we had a pic (and correct spelling of her name).
 
I think Lucy is a strong possibility for our UID if we can't find her anywhere else. I wonder if we emailed the 'state farm' she was sent to ( it's renamed now...a womens correctional facility) , if they would release any info related to Lucy's long ago incarceration...anyone want to try?

respectfully snipped.

If anyone is going to try, I wouldn't recommend emailing the 'state farm' but would put in a request through the court she was convicted in. There are much better odds of getting the information that way. Unless she was a juvenile, those records are public. Does anyone know what county that was, some counties have court case indexes online going back to the 60's.
 
I do have an ancestry membership and hope to find some quiet time tomorrow to look for Lucy...I did a quick search just now...there are a bunch of Civitelli's in Connecticut, but haven't found Lucy yet. As fivefelines pointed out, she could've changed her name or gotten married, which would make her more difficult to find.
 
Hi all! I am just now catching up on this thread... Interesting... And great work so far!! I did some initial research on Lucille, and don't believe she is the UID. Using her name with middle initial and birth year, I was able to find some marriage records and her listing at the "farm " in Niantic in 1970( as listed in that article). The spelling I found her under had an "o" at the end of the last name instead of "I". Hope this helps, I sort of jumped into this one without making any notes, charts, or bookmarks!!!

Moo
 
Hi all! I am just now catching up on this thread... Interesting... And great work so far!! I did some initial research on Lucille, and don't believe she is the UID. Using her name with middle initial and birth year, I was able to find some marriage records and her listing at the "farm " in Niantic in 1970( as listed in that article). The spelling I found her under had an "o" at the end of the last name instead of "I". Hope this helps, I sort of jumped into this one without making any notes, charts, or bookmarks!!!

Moo

Wow, Great work! Where did you find the info? Just searching around online, or in certain databases? Whatever you did, I'd love to know how to do it, because I looked and looked for Lucille and came up with nothing, and no prison listing. Would love to find the prison records for Carmichael.
 
Wow, Great work! Where did you find the info? Just searching around online, or in certain databases? Whatever you did, I'd love to know how to do it, because I looked and looked for Lucille and came up with nothing, and no prison listing. Would love to find the prison records for Carmichael.

Thanks! I did not find any prison records unfortunately...just records from Ancestry that matched with her birthday and middle initial. The listing of her in 1970 stated "rem to Niantic" and was a city directory for Hartford. This means she was either removed to Niantic, or moved there. I sometimes use asterisks in last names to help broaden searches and add in the variations in spelling. Sometimes Ancestry is good at bring up similar possibilities, other times.. Not so much. I will see if I can dig up anything else later this evening.
 
If it helps, one of the articles I read said the money was found in a garage behind her apartment building in New Britain. Before this I was looking up her name with Hartford, so I'm looking now with New Britain in the search engine.
 
(I might be more confused after I wrote all this than when I started! :scared: maybe something in here will "ring" true with someone else... Sorry, I should be ashamed of that pun...:facepalm:)

I think that the phone numbers might offer the best clues, assuming they have firmly established that JD made these calls. Here are some things I noticed in looking at the bill... (Oh, and I'm assuming that the number labelled "amount" is the cost of the call? It does make it harder to figure out how long the calls might have been due to different rates to different areas).

All of her calls were designated as "station calls" not "person calls". I haven't been able to find precisely what that meant. I'm going to see if I can get more specifics from searching in a bit...

The bill was addressed to CM Fox, Jr, so I am guessing he was probably the landlord of the apt or room she was renting. The first documented call was to the "time", which could have been her checking that the phone was working.

Although there are two bills here (one due in Dec and one due in Jan), the calls she made spanned exactly one month (11/17-12/17). Perhaps she only paid for one months rent?

The likelihood, according to the other articles posted, is that she died on Dec 31st, IIRC. That leaves a two-week window where she made no calls from that location. Seems possible that she and GC were living in or headed to, CT from sometime right around the 17th. (GC escaped from custody on Oct 7th? I think. So if they didn't know each other before, it was a fast random meeting.... Or they knew someone in common who introduced them. Where was he staying during that time? Was he hiding out at her place from 11/17 onward?)

She always called Nashville, TN during the day hours (it's coded as a 1). Same number 3 times, another number once. This could support what another poster proposed that she may have been trying to break into the entertainment scene. (As opposed to calling family or friends after work/ school hours. Or, going out on a real limb here... Could she have been calling mom to touch base during day hours when she knew dad was at work?). Both numbers in Nashville appear to have connected for a period of time, based on cost. Also, both numbers have the same prefix. Where I grew up, prefixes were attached to certain areas/neighborhoods. Don't know if it was the same in Nashvl. Side note: when I lived in Cheney, WA in the early 90's, we didn't even use the prefix, we'd just give our 4digits... My number was 2120. I worked at Dominos and we'd just write the 4 digits on the box slip... Sorry, I digress...

An odd gap- there is nothing from 11/26-12/10. Nov 26 was Thanksgiving. We may be missing some calls, maybe they just didn't show that page of the bill? I really wish we could see who/if she called anyone on TG. if there were no calls, why not? The day before TG, she called a number in Leavittown, PA. Same town she made the last call to- different number, same prefix. (This is one of the numbers Carl traced...see my quote of his post below)...

She allowed, a collect call from Newark, NJ in the evening on 12/11 from a number she never called. This was the Friday evening before her last call.

The last call was made to Leavittown, PA, at night, to a number she had called previously. I think she may not have ever connected on those calls... Two of them cost .15, made during day hours, and the final one cost .10, made at night. If those calls didn't connect, could they have been a signal? (I know, sounds like old spy-movie stuff- ring twice then hang up. But maybe??)

I don't know the exact line between the hours distinctions, but I'm guessing that Day was business hours, Evening was like 5-8 or 9pm, Night would be like 9pm to 12 or 1am, and then late, like 1am to 6am?). At any rate (oof, no pun intended :facepalm:), looks like her last call was briefly on 12/17 probably after 8pm.

Sorry this got so long!!

Respectfully snipped:

I was able to trace three of the phone numbers on the phone bill.

* The 215 945 0131 belonged to a J--- A------ who lived on 7500 Knights Road in Bensalem PA in 1974. That address no longer exists. There is a chance that he obtained that number between 1970 and 1974, but he still had the same number in 1994 (and lived in Levittown at that time).

* The 615 244 4259 belonged to a B---- D----- of Nashville TN in 1994. He was born in 1935, and lived in the area all his life up to that
-snip

It's possible that they obtained those telephone numbers between 1970 and 1994 (or in the case of JA, between 1970 and 1974), but there would be no reason to do so if they had all lived in the area the entire time.

.
 
I'm trying to work backwards. The town locations, factoring out the big cities, are all within 25 miles of each other, with a concentration around Langhorne. Looking at her age, she could be calling HS or college friends.

There is a college right between Levittown and Langhorne, Cairn. At the time it was the Philadelphia Biblical College, and it was founded in 1913. Iesus Hominum Salvator?
 

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