Identified! CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, May'74 - Linda Sue Childers

[Jerri Blank]

Is there a way to tell what info was used to make a rule out? Obviously DNA is pretty certain, but it is possible that a rule out on dentals could be wrong?

i came across Denise Sheehy's Charley Project page today and again am so struck by how much she looks like "Lorraine" and how she ran away wearing a gold boy's class ring. I always go back to thinking it could be her.

 

[Alleykins]

Is there a way to tell what info was used to make a rule out? Obviously DNA is pretty certain, but it is possible that a rule out on dentals could be wrong?

i came across Denise Sheehy's Charley Project page today and again am so struck by how much she looks like "Lorraine" and how she ran away wearing a gold boy's class ring. I always go back to thinking it could be her.

I'm not sure what the accuracy rate it comparing records, but here's an article I think gives us an idea:

Validation studies in forensic odontology – Part 1: Accuracy of radiographic matching

As part of a series of studies aimed at validating techniques in forensic odontology, this study aimed to validate the accuracy of ante-mortem (AM)/po…

www.sciencedirect.com

Also, one time the RCMP sent me a missing person's dental records after I submitted a match. Not sure why they did that, I never represented myself as law enforcement. I was just submitting a tip.

I passed the records along to NamUs, however, the UP's dental records were actually in Doe Network, so I compared them just to see what was what. There were fillings in the missing person that weren't in the teeth of the UP. So even to me as a non-dentist could tell they weren't a match, as long as those records were accurate.

 

[Jerri Blank]

I'm not sure what the accuracy rate it comparing records, but here's an article I think gives us an idea:

Validation studies in forensic odontology – Part 1: Accuracy of radiographic matching

As part of a series of studies aimed at validating techniques in forensic odontology, this study aimed to validate the accuracy of ante-mortem (AM)/po…

www.sciencedirect.com

Also, one time the RCMP sent me a missing person's dental records after I submitted a match. Not sure why they did that, I never represented myself as law enforcement. I was just submitting a tip.

I passed the records along to NamUs, however, the UP's dental records were actually in Doe Network, so I compared them just to see what was what. There were fillings in the missing person that weren't in the teeth of the UP. So even to me as a non-dentist could tell they weren't a match, as long as those records were accurate.

good point. and i guess in the case of Denise, and Helen Frost - the other person i ALWAYS go back to being "Lorraine" - neither were missing so long that the dentals would have changed much before they died, barring major trauma to the face.

i have a feeling we will hear from othram soon on this, but i still just always go back to Denise (and Helen). if it's not either of them, they must be calling to me to be my next cases to pursue!

 

[John/Jane Doe]

A half-century later, "Lorraine Stahl” is now Identified

Connecticut Office of the Chief Medical Examiner Teams with Othram to Identify 1974 Homicide Victim, “Lorraine Stahl”

dnasolves.com

 

[Friday Fan]

A half-century later, "Lorraine Stahl” is now Identified

Connecticut Office of the Chief Medical Examiner Teams with Othram to Identify 1974 Homicide Victim, “Lorraine Stahl”

dnasolves.com

This case has so many twists and turns.

I was following it intensely, (that's the only it can be followed!) but then the Texas summer drought forced me to take care of my dying yard and I couldn't concentrate on it.

I sure hope we found out!

 

[John/Jane Doe]

@othram any update?

 

[papijoe2002]

good point. and i guess in the case of Denise, and Helen Frost - the other person i ALWAYS go back to being "Lorraine" - neither were missing so long that the dentals would have changed much before they died, barring major trauma to the face.

i have a feeling we will hear from othram soon on this, but i still just always go back to Denise (and Helen). if it's not either of them, they must be calling to me to be my next cases to pursue!

 

[John/Jane Doe]

A half-century later, "Lorraine Stahl” is now Identified

Connecticut Office of the Chief Medical Examiner Teams with Othram to Identify 1974 Homicide Victim, “Lorraine Stahl”

dnasolves.com

 

[papijoe2002]

Jane Does teeth were blown out by the shotgun blast to the back of their head so that would affect the dental comparisons right?
I am so sure that Jane Doe is Helen Claire Frost that I don't know what is do if it's not.

 

[Jerri Blank]

Jane Does teeth were blown out by the shotgun blast to the back of their head so that would affect the dental comparisons right?
I am so sure that Jane Doe is Helen Claire Frost that I don't know what is do if it's not.

If it's not her, it will have to be someone who was never reported missing and looks just like her, right?

 

[branmuffin]

Well, it would make sense that they would be buried. That's what I thought!

Were the clothes and the Clairol curlers in the suitcase? They are in remarkable condition. There's no way they were on the remains buried in soil.

 

[iamshadow21]

Were the clothes and the Clairol curlers in the suitcase? They are in remarkable condition. There's no way they were on the remains buried in soil.

Some of the clothing and the rollers set were recovered from another woman at a later time. They weren't with the body.

MOO

 

[branmuffin]

Some of the clothing and the rollers set were recovered from another woman at a later time. They weren't with the body.

MOO

Thank you.

 

[iamshadow21]

Thank you.

I could be wrong about the rollers, I've been looking for a source, but this thread is long and a lot of links are broken. I'll keep looking. Here's a source for some of her clothing being given to another woman, though.

CT - CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, granny boots, yellow rain coat, May'74

 

[Friday Fan]

Were the clothes and the Clairol curlers in the suitcase? They are in remarkable condition. There's no way they were on the remains buried in soil.

Yeah, I found out after making that comment that the clothes and rollers were at someone's house.

This case has so many twists and turns! It's crazy.

I don't think she is Helen Claire Frost.
This Jane Doe was killed on Dec 31st 1970. Helen had just turned 18 in October 1970. It sounds like this Jane Doe may have been older (or on her own for a while) and working at a night club in New Jersey according to a witness.


CT - CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, granny boots, yellow rain coat, May'74

Identified! - CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, May'74 - Linda Sue Childers

Yeah, Googling Carmichael+DeFreitas turns up a lot of newspaper articles about this case. One of the most interesting involves differences between Rainello's testimony and Gardner's, the two key prosecution witnesses. They both testify that it was DeFreitas and Brant who murdered Carmichael and...

www.websleuths.com

CT - CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, granny boots, yellow rain coat, May'74

Besides the house he lived in with "lorraine", I wonder what other addresses Carmichael had? Looks like Brant was shot by police in 1977. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2457&dat=19770609&id=9hI0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=jyMIAAAAIBAJ&pg=1130,3231015

www.websleuths.com

There are lots of newspaper articles about this case in this thread. It just takes a long time to read them all. And nothing is linear about the discovery..LOL

 

[iamshadow21]

Thank you.

I can find a number of posters over the years asserting the rollers set was with the other clothing recovered, but no direct link that works that I found that specifically states it. I may have just overlooked it, though. Othram's writeup does seem to suggest they were found not with the body, but at another time and place, though, and they've got access to stuff I don't, so that's good enough for me. YMMV.

MOO

 

[Alleykins]

I can find a number of posters over the years asserting the rollers set was with the other clothing recovered, but no direct link that works that I found that specifically states it. I may have just overlooked it, though. Othram's writeup does seem to suggest they were found not with the body, but at another time and place, though, and they've got access to stuff I don't, so that's good enough for me. YMMV.

MOO

NamUs shows a set of rollers in her case file, among the other possessions attributed to this UP. Is that what you're looking for, by chance?

 

[Palisades]

Was her hair even long enough to use curlers? Why would she carry a set of curlers while basically being on the run. Maybe she had longer hair and cut it shortly before.

 

[iamshadow21]

NamUs shows a set of rollers in her case file, among the other possessions attributed to this UP. Is that what you're looking for, by chance?

No, I was looking for a source telling whether the rollers were found with the body, or with the clothing of hers that was found with another woman (living).

Basically, she was buried, but some of her possessions were given by one of those responsible to his wife. The police were able to recover those. I was trying to find a source that was clear about where the rollers were - in the grave, or with the other woman.

MOO

 

[HmmMysterious]

Hopefully by May 30th of this year, we will know who "Lorraine Stahl" really is