Darlie's injuries

[beesy]

Sorry, even before all this, it was easy to mix up the boys names.
If Devon was the depositer of the print in Darlie blood, it proves Darlie bled before he did, meaning the order of who got stabbed first is wrong. If the plan was to kill the kids then cover it with injuries of her own she wouldn't injure herself first then go after the kids.
I'm confused and my MTJD has gone M.I.A

Darlie is the one who says that both boys were attacked before she was. Once Damon woke her up and she saw this intruder or struggled with him, whichever, she says he ran out through the kitchen. She followed him. That part she has always stuck to. So she herself, by her story, rules Devon out as the depositer of the handprint. Plus, there is no evidence whatsoever that Devon got up and moved over to the couch. There IS evidence that Damon did. She says it for one thing.
You're going to have a pretty hard time debating the photos if you don't have your book, especially when I'm sitting here, as are many others, looking at it. Many of the photos are on the justicefordarlie site. As much as you cared for those boys, doesn't it irk you that many of her supporters feel they must find justice for her, but not for them? If they are worried about justice for the boys, they don't mention it much. I can tell you want justice for them, but we don't hear that often on here.

 

[Goody]

What is the difference between cast off and transfer.

When dealing with an absorbant surface like a shirt, material, carpet etc larger drops of blood are more easily determined to be cast off ( coming from somewhere not rubbed on it). A wall is easy,compared to a shirt, so is any other solid surface to determine this. I asked a doctor ( my cuz' in Dallas) and a Dr. locally what they thought- both agreed the spot is way too small to determine cast off or transfer. Neither one of them felt they would have ruled it as cast off-. In order for so small a drop to deposit there would have had to been some velocity( speed) throwing it onto the shirt. The knife would be traveling at the time the blood dripped from it.

A doctor is not a blood spatter expert. Geez, I can't believe you try to get a doctor to second guess a blood expert. You should remember that the knife was not THAT bloody. It was not dripping in blood because a lot of the blood would have been wiped off the knife on its exit from the body.

The height the knife would have to have been raised high enough to cast off the blood. It would have to be way over Darlie's head. Coming down with enough force to stab someone then would have left deeper wounds than what Damon suffered had she been stabbing him with the knife and raising it to that level so blood could drip off the knife and on to the back shoulder area onto the back of her nightshirt. The time between blows would also be longer and the pattern of wounds show quick, shorter stabs made at a shallower trajectory than those of his brother Devon.

There is no way to judge the time between stabs. It is just assumed that the attacked would immediately stab again and again rather than go off somewhere and comeback to have another go at it.

The knife would not have to be raised high over Darlie's head to create the pattern they found. Her shoulders had to be higher than her butt. I've always pictured her leaning into it rather than rearing up away from it. I think the shoulder would have been raised slightly with each stabbing motion on the upward swing. The method of judging those droplets is as common as warm butter.

If you believe so strongly that Bevel's test was not accurate, why don't you do a test of your own and recreate the droplets from some other source and present your results here. We will accept chocolate syrup as a stand in for blood.

Couch- the family thought everything had been tested, no one can say whose blood the bloody handprint is. What if was Darlies blood in Damons handprint. this proves she was bleeding when he was still alive. This would have blown the initial theory that one of the parents did it.

No, it doesn't. She had to be bleeding while he was still alive....her arm injury. That surely happened during the attacks.

You elimate the most obvious suspects first before you look for others. They don't try and disprove their own theories only confirm them. This is how police investigations are run. It is more cost effective, and usually, usually it is correct. {/QUOTE]

Investigators FOLLOW the leads and the lead in this case lead straight to Darlie. If an intruder had been in the house, there would have been leads to lead elsewhere but there were not.

You are the one who is trying to manipulate the evidence to prove a previously formed conclusion, not the police. You have decided Darlie must be innocent,therefore there has to be evidence to prove she didn't do it. If you were objective, you would be letting the evidence lead you instead of you trying to lead it.

They tested the print but not whose blood it was. The family wrongly assumed all testing on every square inch of that crime scene would be done- imagine the cost of that investigation. That isn't how it works in the real world. The police will submit what is their most promising leads, test things and then try to build a case when they start to get back reports based on the fact that these tests cost a lot of money and you don't need to pursue more tests if your theory is being confirmed by initial results.

CSI never tests every square inch of a crime scene. They test enough to tell the story. If an intruder had been there, something of him would have been found. Now we are supposed to believe that TWO intruders came and went without leaving a trace of themselves. Bull. It is easy to blame the police when you don't get the results you want.

Police and prosecutors are often wrongly blamed for the high cost of investigations and this is a burden that should be removed from their shoulders. Don't gripe about how high your taxes are and how much money your county spends on crime investigations in the end every penny is well spent.

So why did the defense not test anything?

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I've been on both sides of the situation before. I've helped investigate murders, been a witness to prior actions of a murderer, almost murdered myself at age 4.
I still have a couple of perps I will forever follow waiting for them to screw up. I know they are guilty in my gut. I'll sic every law enforcement agency that will listen to me on them. I don't like crime and I am a criminal. Yes I make rolling stops sometimes and have been known to cut someone off. I once got a ticket for 100 mph. When I was young (15) I was disrespectful even more so. If you don't have the guts to be honest about yourself you can't very well judge other's for their mistakes in life too. I can't blame any pro-Darlie people who feel the need to defend her from what they percieve as unjustified attacks. I knew her and I feel so bad for the way her life as turned, but I also knew those little boys and what was done to them deserves the death penalty if anything in this world does. I want to be sure before we all have to do the right thing.
Did Darlie do this, Did she act alone, Did we convict her of bad taste, bad behavior, bad habits or did we catch a killer so cunning and devious she is able to deceive people close to her that she couldn't decieve in the past.

Are my doubts reasonable or am I so blind I cannot see Darlie Lynn for the faulted individual she is. I need some really hard facts cause I know her personally and it not that her behavior didn't bother me its just thats the way she was always. She didn't sneak into her parents room at night and knife them when they had to move into a trailor from a nice house. She didn't exhibit anything more than normal sibling rivialry with her sisters- she never even did to her sisters what mine did to me. I've seen her throw teenager fits and go thru acne, and heartache, she dealt with it better than I expected her to. She wasn't as shallow as I had judged her. The last time I saw Darlie and the boys I had told her how proud of her and Darin I was. Maybe it's survivors guilt but I wish I wish I had taken her up on the offer and gone to visit them. Lord knows if I was there I would have stopped it or killed the SOB on the spot. I think a little part of all of us wishes we could have prevented this tragedy. The only thing worse than what has already happened is if we got it wrong and we put to death the wrong or incomplete people.

I'm no better or worse than anybody out there I want to feel good about it
if I am forced to take you out. Be it by law or survival I don't want blood on my hands that isn't neccessary.

 

[beesy]

Drats , I can't figure this quote stuff out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't you see the little quote button at the bottom of the posts? So just hit that and when the new page comes up that you write in, the quote will already be there.

In my copy of MTJD the only knife outline is in the kitchen near the door where Darlie says she picked up the knife.
In my book the only blood on the back of her T- shirt used as evidence she killed him was that of Damons and it was a tiny spot not drops or droplets. The picture points to a tiny spot the author circle

I suppose we have the same book. How are you going to check behind me when I list all of the page numbers for all of your questions?
I'll go ahead and do it and maybe you can find your book.
Page 379: State's Ex 111: 2 closeup photos of the bloody(Darlie's) knife outline on the family room carpet with the murder weapon sitting underneath it to demonstrate the match. 1 photo taken from a distance with the knife outline indicated by a red arrow on the family room carpet. The evidence map indicates these are near where Damon died.
Page 380: State's Ex 111B: 1 large closeup photo of the knife outline on the family room carpet with the murder weapon underneath to show the match.
There is a concentration of her blood at the tip of knife, as seen in the outline. This could only have come from her bleeding arm as she carried the knife back into the family room to attack Damon for the 2nd time, after she had cut herself. Don't you carry a knife with the blade pointing downwards? If you were bleeding from your arm and you walked around with a knife, wouldn't your blood pool at the tip?
There was no blood or other mark where Darlie said the intruder dropped the knife in the UR. The pictures you are talking about which show blood from the knife in the kitchen are test pictures. LE used cow's blood and dropped the knife all kinds of ways, trying to determine if the knife would have left a mark. It would have.
Page 390: State's Ex: 125A,
Page 391: State's Ex: 125B, and State's Ex 126B,
Page 392: State's Ex: 126A and 126B1 show the results of the tests.

No matter who stabbed the boy I don't think the knife went above the killers shoulder at any time. By the number of them and the depths of them, he had to have been struggling too. Isn't that part of your theories as well- no one could just sleep thru an attack like that. To hold him down and continue to stab him would have been very difficult to do, raising the knife that high regardless of who stabbed him

No, I do not think Devon's killer had to hold him down. I do believe he raised his feet up and kicked at her. There is a nick from the knife on his buttock which indicates the knife slipped as he kicked. The dot you keep referring to on the back of Darlie's nightshirt is in Devon's blood. It is not cast-off. It is not tear-shaped. It can be seen on Page 389: State's Ex: 121A
The cast-off is in Damon's blood. It is tear-shaped Pages 387 and 388: State's Ex: 120A, B and C. During the 2nd attack is probably when Darlie put the knife down(creating the outline) and held Damon down, then picked it up again once she had him under her control. He was stabbed in the back and there is evidence he moved so it is reasonable to propose that she had to put the knife down beside him. Interesting thing is that Chris points out something which supports the 2nd Attack Theory, although he tries to turn it around. The cast-off blood from Damon is on TOP of Darlie's blood. Her story is that both boys were attacked before she was. The only way Damon's blood can be in a cast-off pattern on the back of her shirt is that he was stabbed again, after she cut herself. Tear-shaped droplets are not caused by anyone kneeling down close to a wounded person and they are not caused by transfer from another source, i.e. clothes being placed in the same evidence bag.

Think about it for a minute, I played it out. Play it out too. The blade, and only the part actually stabbed into the person would have blood on it. The handle would not have blood on it unless someone held it upside down.

Oh, I've played it out baby. I've played it out. What's your argument here? Of course the blade would have blood on it. The knife used in the Routier attacks also had blood on the handle. It's from the killer having bloody hands and picking up the knife.

The blood if cast off would have come from the blade not the handle, thus meaning the blade area with blood on it, has to be above the shoulder to cast off blood unto the back- IMO thats unnatural

.
Right, of course the cast-off came from the knife blade. I'm sorry I cannot follow your agrument here. Cast-off from a knife hitting the back of a killer is not only in this case. How do you think the killer held the knife? Also, did you know that most women stab overhand while men stab underhand? Isn't that cool?

What show did you see our beloved Dr. Lee on? I have never seen him demonstarate this and I would feel much, much, better if I knew it was possible. I would change my mind then, Dasgal would have to arrest me for sneaking into prison to speed up the execution date. DP would have to testify in court as to all my posts and Mama Darlie might actually beat us all to it

think Goody saw it too. There is a program on CourtTV called something Evidence. It's always about him, about a case he's worked on. It wasn't Darlie's case, but the killer had the victim's cast-off blood on his back from the weapon. Dr. Lee was showing how it could happen. I hope you appreciate all of this. I've been researching and writing for about 45 mins. I don't mind though, Anything to get the facts out there.

 

[Goody]

I've been on both sides of the situation before. I've helped investigate murders, been a witness to prior actions of a murderer, almost murdered myself at age 4.
I still have a couple of perps I will forever follow waiting for them to screw up. I know they are guilty in my gut. I'll sic every law enforcement agency that will listen to me on them. I don't like crime and I am a criminal. Yes I make rolling stops sometimes and have been known to cut someone off. I once got a ticket for 100 mph. When I was young (15) I was disrespectful even more so. If you don't have the guts to be honest about yourself you can't very well judge other's for their mistakes in life too. I can't blame any pro-Darlie people who feel the need to defend her from what they percieve as unjustified attacks. I knew her and I feel so bad for the way her life as turned, but I also knew those little boys and what was done to them deserves the death penalty if anything in this world does. I want to be sure before we all have to do the right thing.
Did Darlie do this, Did she act alone, Did we convict her of bad taste, bad behavior, bad habits or did we catch a killer so cunning and devious she is able to deceive people close to her that she couldn't decieve in the past.

Are my doubts reasonable or am I so blind I cannot see Darlie Lynn for the faulted individual she is. I need some really hard facts cause I know her personally and it not that her behavior didn't bother me its just thats the way she was always. She didn't sneak into her parents room at night and knife them when they had to move into a trailor from a nice house. She didn't exhibit anything more than normal sibling rivialry with her sisters- she never even did to her sisters what mine did to me. I've seen her throw teenager fits and go thru acne, and heartache, she dealt with it better than I expected her to. She wasn't as shallow as I had judged her. The last time I saw Darlie and the boys I had told her how proud of her and Darin I was. Maybe it's survivors guilt but I wish I wish I had taken her up on the offer and gone to visit them. Lord knows if I was there I would have stopped it or killed the SOB on the spot. I think a little part of all of us wishes we could have prevented this tragedy. The only thing worse than what has already happened is if we got it wrong and we put to death the wrong or incomplete people.

I'm no better or worse than anybody out there I want to feel good about it
if I am forced to take you out. Be it by law or survival I don't want blood on my hands that isn't neccessary.

Did you ever think that maybe it was the combination of D&D? Sometimes people change when they become involved with others who bring something out of them they never knew was there. D&D had a strong connection, I think, and I can't help but wonder if they didn't unite in some sort of unholy union. It is that suicide threat/attempt in May that I think is the beginning of the what ultimately happened. Or at least started bringing it all to a head. Rather than lose Darlie, might it not be better to sacrifice the boys and then do the best they could by Drake? Sounds crazy, I know, but if you are in an altered reality or swept up into the drama of something.......???......I don't know. Just wondering if you have ever considered it.

 

[justice2]

Did you ever think that maybe it was the combination of D&D? Sometimes people change when they become involved with others who bring something out of them they never knew was there. D&D had a strong connection, I think, and I can't help but wonder if they didn't unite in some sort of unholy union. It is that suicide threat/attempt in May that I think is the beginning of the what ultimately happened. Or at least started bringing it all to a head. Rather than lose Darlie, might it not be better to sacrifice the boys and then do the best they could by Drake? Sounds crazy, I know, but if you are in an altered reality or swept up into the drama of something.......???......I don't know. Just wondering if you have ever considered it.

Yes, the strong connection between Darin and Darlie. I noticed that in some of the first TV coverage after she was arrested. I thought it was odd at the time.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Don't you see the little quote button at the bottom of the posts? So just hit that and when the new page comes up that you write in, the quote will already be there.

I suppose we have the same book. How are you going to check behind me when I list all of the page numbers for all of your questions?
I'll go ahead and do it and maybe you can find your book.
Page 379: State's Ex 111: 2 closeup photos of the bloody(Darlie's) knife outline on the family room carpet with the murder weapon sitting underneath it to demonstrate the match. 1 photo taken from a distance with the knife outline indicated by a red arrow on the family room carpet. The evidence map indicates these are near where Damon died.
Page 380: State's Ex 111B: 1 large closeup photo of the knife outline on the family room carpet with the murder weapon underneath to show the match.
There is a concentration of her blood at the tip of knife, as seen in the outline. This could only have come from her bleeding arm as she carried the knife back into the family room to attack Damon for the 2nd time, after she had cut herself. Don't you carry a knife with the blade pointing downwards? If you were bleeding from your arm and you walked around with a knife, wouldn't your blood pool at the tip?
There was no blood or other mark where Darlie said the intruder dropped the knife in the UR. The pictures you are talking about which show blood from the knife in the kitchen are test pictures. LE used cow's blood and dropped the knife all kinds of ways, trying to determine if the knife would have left a mark. It would have.
Page 390: State's Ex: 125A,
Page 391: State's Ex: 125B, and State's Ex 126B,
Page 392: State's Ex: 126A and 126B1 show the results of the tests.

No, I do not think Devon's killer had to hold him down. I do believe he raised his feet up and kicked at her. There is a nick from the knife on his buttock which indicates the knife slipped as he kicked. The dot you keep referring to on the back of Darlie's nightshirt is in Devon's blood. It is not cast-off. It is not tear-shaped. It can be seen on Page 389: State's Ex: 121A
The cast-off is in Damon's blood. It is tear-shaped Pages 387 and 388: State's Ex: 120A, B and C. During the 2nd attack is probably when Darlie put the knife down(creating the outline) and held Damon down, then picked it up again once she had him under her control. He was stabbed in the back and there is evidence he moved so it is reasonable to propose that she had to put the knife down beside him. Interesting thing is that Chris points out something which supports the 2nd Attack Theory, although he tries to turn it around. The cast-off blood from Damon is on TOP of Darlie's blood. Her story is that both boys were attacked before she was. The only way Damon's blood can be in a cast-off pattern on the back of her shirt is that he was stabbed again, after she cut herself. Tear-shaped droplets are not caused by anyone kneeling down close to a wounded person and they are not caused by transfer from another source, i.e. clothes being placed in the same evidence bag.
Oh, I've played it out baby. I've played it out. What's your argument here? Of course the blade would have blood on it. The knife used in the Routier attacks also had blood on the handle. It's from the killer having bloody hands and picking up the knife.
.
Right, of course the cast-off came from the knife blade. I'm sorry I cannot follow your agrument here. Cast-off from a knife hitting the back of a killer is not only in this case. How do you think the killer held the knife? Also, did you know that most women stab overhand while men stab underhand? Isn't that cool?



think Goody saw it too. There is a program on CourtTV called something Evidence. It's always about him, about a case he's worked on. It wasn't Darlie's case, but the killer had the victim's cast-off blood on his back from the weapon. Dr. Lee was showing how it could happen. I hope you appreciate all of this. I've been researching and writing for about 45 mins. I don't mind though, Anything to get the facts out there.

All I can Say IS
oh my god,
I FOUND MY BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!! the burning of useless items can end I can read it.

I hadn't thought about being bent down stabbing with my shoulders down. But when did she plant the sock and get rid of the 2nd knife? I'm just lazy enough to ask. I understand a 2nd knife was collected as evidence but only much much later. It was not far from the sock either. Could this also be the knife any assailant could have used? Even if it was Darlie who planted it there couldn't she have done it at the same time as the sock. From my last reading of the book I understood the ME report to say 2 knives used.

Hind sights 20/20 betcha those cops wished they had those C.S.I. style, better than any police office really has, forensics kits. I sometimes wonder if thats the only thing that would satisfy Mama Darlie. No one could deny the boys deserved it if only it were possible.

The knife having a bloody tip doesn't bother me her blood would be the last blood on it because she picks it up off the ur floor and walks around holding it. Her arm is bleeding down the knife, right as she holds it walking around it pools on the tip. I wouldn't be surprised he she did pick it up I feel so guilty for ever saying it but I once said when she was about 10 that "she was so dumb she would pick up the murder weapon at a crime scene and not only that, she'd walk around with it." Maybe that's why I feel so badly about the whole thing. I never ever thought it could really happen. I always assumed it would be Darin who got shot, stabbed, or poisoned ( or all 3 at once if it happened at the bar my hubby sometimes hangs out at) cause Darlie Lynn gave that long eyelash blink she had mastered before the age of 12 , to the wrong man and Darin would end up dead defending her. She thought she looked assertive not flirty like she came off. That's what I mean about dumb, so is spending money like she did also dumb, I don't mean to be mean about it though I have seen worse than dumb or stupid

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Did you ever think that maybe it was the combination of D&D? Sometimes people change when they become involved with others who bring something out of them they never knew was there. D&D had a strong connection, I think, and I can't help but wonder if they didn't unite in some sort of unholy union. It is that suicide threat/attempt in May that I think is the beginning of the what ultimately happened. Or at least started bringing it all to a head. Rather than lose Darlie, might it not be better to sacrifice the boys and then do the best they could by Drake? Sounds crazy, I know, but if you are in an altered reality or swept up into the drama of something.......???......I don't know. Just wondering if you have ever considered it.

I MUST ASK WHAT IS D&D?
Darlie AND Darin
Dungeons and Dragons
Dumber and Dumber
I have no clue??????

If you want a Darlie suicide theory from me the only way I can see her taking out her kids with her is if they woke up and tried to stop her. She couldn't handle it, and either she did it in a rage or somehow hurt one of them struggling over the knife and once having injuried one of them she had to shut them both up. It can be made to fit all the evidence but if she was suicidal why wouldn't she just admit it after all now you don't have to kill yourself the State is gonna do it for you. A really suicidal person does't just snap out of feeling suicidal especially if you just killed your kids, you would suffer a breakdown, cause now you really have a reason to die and the rest of the world agrees with you.

Like you though the motive is perplexing me as well. I'm learning more as I catch up its been years since I read the book. I got it on first release.

 

[beesy]

All I can Say IS
oh my god,
I FOUND MY BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!! the burning of useless items can end I can read it

.
Look at you, doing the quotey thing already! I knew you could figure it out.
Thank god! Now you can see all of the photos I listed. Have you had a chance to look at them yet?

I hadn't thought about being bent down stabbing with my shoulders down. But when did she plant the sock and get rid of the 2nd knife? I'm just lazy enough to ask. I understand a 2nd knife was collected as evidence but only much much later. It was not far from the sock either. Could this also be the knife any assailant could have used? Even if it was Darlie who planted it there couldn't she have done it at the same time as the sock. From my last reading of the book I understood the ME report to say 2 knives used

I do not think the sock was "planted". Goody and I thought and thought on it. I think she finally came to the conclusion that someone was trying to throw the sock away. It was near a sewer and near a trash can. I think this is where Darin had a hand in things. She could have run it down easily, but I think he did it. So you've got time slipping away, right? He knows Darlie is already on the phone. Maybe he already hears sirens. He throws and misses, but panics and turns back.
And I think Darlie called 911 before she planned to. That cut on her throat probably scared the pootooy out of her. I imagine it bled alot, perhaps more than she thought it would, considering she was being careful not to hit the vocal chords or the jugular.
As for another knife, I do not interpret the ME to be saying there were 2 different murder weapons. I'm not the only one. The knife that was collected later on was around the alley from the sock. It was being used by the home-owner for gardening. Cops questioned him about it that morning. The knife was rigged up somehow with a rope, tied, and stabbed into the ground. The killer certainly did not have time to do that. The cop made a call that it wasn't related and so didn't photograph or seize it.

Hind sights 20/20 betcha those cops wished they had those C.S.I. style, better than any police office really has, forensics kits. I sometimes wonder if thats the only thing that would satisfy Mama Darlie. No one could deny the boys deserved it if only it were possible

I hope you realize I do not want Darlie to be guilty. I believed her for a long time. The first time I saw the Silly String tape in '96, I even said, "they can't think she's guilty only because of that. People do all kinds of crazy things when they are grieving". At the time, I didn't know any of the evidence. I've had all four books since they were released. I was amazed at the evidence. But, you can't trust everything you read. I thought about her case on and off, but then for some reason over the summer I did some surfing on the Net about her and stumbled onto this forum. My very first question was that I was having a hard time getting past someone slitting their own throat(figurativly as well). So I studied some more, read the posts, looked things up and realized she's guilty. And this is creepy guess when I joined the Darlie forum? June 6, 2005. And I didn't even realize it til much later.

The knife having a bloody tip doesn't bother me her blood would be the last blood on it because she picks it up off the ur floor and walks around holding it. Her arm is bleeding down the knife, right as she holds it walking around it pools on the tip. I wouldn't be surprised he she did pick it up I feel so guilty for ever saying it but I once said when she was about 10 that "she was so dumb she would pick up the murder weapon at a crime scene and not only that, she'd walk around with it." Maybe that's why I feel so badly about the whole thing. I never ever thought it could really happen. I always assumed it would be Darin who got shot, stabbed, or poisoned ( or all 3 at once if it happened at the bar my hubby sometimes hangs out at) cause Darlie Lynn gave that long eyelash blink she had mastered before the age of 12 , to the wrong man and Darin would end up dead defending her. She thought she looked assertive not flirty like she came off. That's what I mean about dumb, so is spending money like she did also dumb, I don't mean to be mean about it though I have seen worse than dumb or stupid

Darlie does not say she walked around with the knife. She says she picked it up off of the floor and put it on the counter. That's secondary anyway. The important thing here is that the knife was placed on the family room floor and an outline of it was created by Darlie's blood. She has never said anything about carrying the knife back into the room. To me, this outline is the smoking gun. Other people think it's the screen fiber, which is powerful evidence, but it can be disputed. She cannot explain away why that knife made a bloody outline in her blood. Another thing about the knife, Damon's blood was found on TOP of Darlie's on the knife blade.

 

[beesy]

I MUST ASK WHAT IS D&D?
Darlie AND Darin
Dungeons and Dragons
Dumber and Dumber
I have no clue?????

Darlie and Darin...hey we get lazy ok?

If you want a Darlie suicide theory from me the only way I can see her taking out her kids with her is if they woke up and tried to stop her. She couldn't handle it, and either she did it in a rage or somehow hurt one of them struggling over the knife and once having injuried one of them she had to shut them both up. It can be made to fit all the evidence but if she was suicidal why wouldn't she just admit it after all now you don't have to kill yourself the State is gonna do it for you. A really suicidal person does't just snap out of feeling suicidal especially if you just killed your kids, you would suffer a breakdown, cause now you really have a reason to die and the rest of the world agrees with you

Darlie says she almost took an overdose of sleeping pills that May, almost exactly to the day of the murders. She also wrote it her diary. She claims she took all of the pills out of their packaging and was getting ready to take them when Darin came home. So Goody isn't pulling a suicide threat out of her ***. She's not talking about the night of the murders. She is referring to the May incident.

Like you though the motive is perplexing me as well. I'm learning more as I catch up its been years since I read the book. I got it on first release

You'll be hard-pressed to find any motive in Chris' book. I do not think there is a motive that can be set in stone. Even killers who confess often lie about the motive. That's why the prosecution doesn't have to prove motive. John List, for example, skirts the real issue which was he simply wanted to get rid of his family and start anew, by saying he was worried about their souls. :liar: My copy is first release too. You should think about getting it lamenated because I've seen them as high as $560 on the Net!

 

[txsvicki]

I was telling duker that. It was in reference to him saying we were overweight housewives.

Well, I'm 10 lbs overweight, unfortunately not working and bored. That is the only reason I am on the internet quite a bit, but what does stultified mean? I am too lazy to even see what it means or if it's a real word.

 

[beesy]

Well, I'm 10 lbs overweight, unfortunately not working and bored. That is the only reason I am on the internet quite a bit, but what does stultified mean? I am too lazy to even see what it means or if it's a real word.

TRANSITIVE VERB:
[size=-1]stul·ti·fied[/size] , [font=arial,sans-serif][size=-1]stul·ti·fy·ing[/size][/font] , [font=arial,sans-serif][size=-1]stul·ti·fies[/size][/font]

1. To render useless or ineffectual; cripple.
2. To cause to appear stupid, inconsistent, or ridiculous.
3. Law To allege or prove insane and so not legally responsible.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

From my last reading of the book I understood the ME report to say 2 knives used.

I don't think so. Where did you read this?

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Ok I'll look harder next time .

Believe me I've had my doubts but unlike most Pro-Darlie supporters I need some convincing and won't throw mud at those I'm asking. Considering the media hype, a pro or con book I would like to Quote An old tv show ragnet and Sgt. Joe Friday: JUST THE FACTS MAMM, JUST THE FACTS.

The blood evidence establishes what order?
Wasn't it Devon -oldest first. 2 deep penetrating wounds another to
arm?
QUESTION:
? angle of entry, to determine
where was the killer standing, sitting, kneeling.

These blood drops, splatters, or runs on the glass top table, Whose blood , how deposited?

How did she do it, tie it ALL up for me please. Please let me know how she planted the sock too. None of the kitchen photos look like she tried to clean it up. The blood destroyd by Luminol really irks me because you never know it might have made the case airtight or set another investigave trail to follow.

Excuse me but I'm just an old hound dog, getting a sniff here and I'd like someone to walk me down this trail and enlighten me.

You say Darlie says she put the knife on the counter after she found it and Damons blood is on top of hers on the knife, CWB seems to establish a 2nd attack on him. This would explain why his wounds seem to be so spread out and more shallow in some instances, glancing off bone. Wouldn't also the angle of entry wounds be different showing the killer assuming two different postures. It would be almost be a statistically impossible to assume the exact same position twice to kill someone. I think this information is important and can be answered by looking closer at the forensics, since I'm dumb enough to consult a dr insteed of a blood specialist, I'd be grateful for some educated answers.

You folks, all you posters on both sides, have made me put on my thinking cap, found it in all the junk looking for my book. At my age it could be dangerous, it might make my head hurt. LOL.

 

[beesy]

Ok I'll look harder next time .
Believe me I've had my doubts but unlike most Pro-Darlie supporters I need some convincing and won't throw mud at those I'm asking. Considering the media hype, a pro or con book I would like to Quote An old tv show ragnet and Sgt. Joe Friday: JUST THE FACTS MAMM, JUST THE FACTS

Not an unreasonable request. That's what I want also

The blood evidence establishes what order?
Wasn't it Devon -oldest first. 2 deep penetrating wounds another to
arm?
QUESTION:
? angle of entry, to determine
where was the killer standing, sitting, kneeling

Yes, Devon was attacked and killed first. He also had a small cut on his upper thigh. This seems to show that he raised his feet up and kicked. I have no idea why it would matter what position Darlie was in when she attacked him?

These blood drops, splatters, or runs on the glass top table, Whose blood , how deposited?

Indicative of blood dripping off of something, most likely the bleeding source. I think they are Darlie's.

How did she do it, tie it ALL up for me please. Please let me know how she planted the sock too. None of the kitchen photos look like she tried to clean it up. The blood destroyd by Luminol really irks me because you never know it might have made the case airtight or set another investigave trail to follow

Well, if the sock was a plant, she simply ran it down there. I think it was meant to be thrown in the sewer and I think Darin took it. Whoever took it probably went out through the front door because the jerry-rigged backyard gate was still latched. That's another thing which points away from an intruder. Darlie's story is that the intruder ran out through kitchen, then through the garage door. The only way out after that was the window which led out into the backyard with the very difficult to open still latched gate. Babs Davis made a trial run down the alley and it only took her about 30 seconds.
Darlie says she was a the sink wetting towels, so why isn't the sink bloodier? The Luminol picked up cleaned up blood in the kitchen sink and on the counter top. It was in a swirl pattern. It was cleaned up as well. By the way, if you ever murder anyone, don't clean up the blood. Figure out a way to explain it, but don't wipe it away.

You say Darlie says she put the knife on the counter after she found it and Damons blood is on top of hers on the knife, CWB seems to establish a 2nd attack on him. This would explain why his wounds seem to be so spread out and more shallow in some instances, glancing off bone. Wouldn't also the angle of entry wounds be different showing the killer assuming two different postures. It would be almost be a statistically impossible to assume the exact same position twice to kill someone. I think this information is important and can be answered by looking closer at the forensics, since I'm dumb enough to consult a dr insteed of a blood specialist, I'd be grateful for some educated answers

Damon's blood was found on top of Darlie's. Darlie's story is that the boys were attacked first and never attacked again after she was. Why would Chris doubt her story? He is very much on her side. I do not see anything which suggests Chris is establishing a 2nd Attack. The 2nd Attack Theory is that Darlie stabbed and killed Devon. Then she attacked Damon, as he tried to crawl away from his MOTHER. Thinking he was dead, she went on about her business(sock?, cutting, cleaning, throwing glass, explaining to Darin?). At some point during all of this, she realized he was still alive and she stabbed him again. That is the 2nd Attack Theory, whether you believe that's what happened or not. That is the theory as presented by the State. Chris is only saying that Damon was stabbed, woke up and tried to crawl away and he was stabbed again. That's not the 2nd Attack Theory. In here is where Darin's involvement gets blurry. When did he first come downstairs? When did she realize Damon was alive? Before or after Darin arrived on the scene? I've stated before, I think she called 911 before she planned to. She was still scurrying around during the call. Damon was still alive after Darlie hung up the phone (5mins39secs). He died in the arms of a stranger instead of either parent, even though they were standing right there!
I am not a forensic scientist, although I am highly educated. I hope you will accept my knowledge of this case depite the fact that I am not a Dr. Lee.

 

[cami]

All I can Say IS
oh my god,
I FOUND MY BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!! the burning of useless items can end I can read it.

I hadn't thought about being bent down stabbing with my shoulders down. But when did she plant the sock and get rid of the 2nd knife? I'm just lazy enough to ask. I understand a 2nd knife was collected as evidence but only much much later. It was not far from the sock either. Could this also be the knife any assailant could have used? Even if it was Darlie who planted it there couldn't she have done it at the same time as the sock. From my last reading of the book I understood the ME report to say 2 knives used.

Your information appears to be incorrect. There was a knife removed from a neighbours yard. It was a knife the family was using, along with some other tools to edge their garden. The knife was sticking up from the ground in the mud. The alleged intruder would have had to break into that yard, take the knife, clean it, use it and then put it back exactly as he found it. Not logical. IMO.

You can verify this in the trial transcripts. Here's a link to his testimony

Don't remember the ME reporting there were two knives. Better check the trial trancripts to verify that.

 

[beesy]

Many of the things you asked in your above post are not really that important in deciding who the killer is.
I don't think who made the bloody handprint on the sofa is a smoking gun, because I don't think there's a question as to who made it. Remember there was a "butt print" as well which seems to show Damon tried to pull himself up, then slid down the sofa. Damon was wearing jeans and Devon was only wearing underpants. Darlie herself puts Damon at the couch. There is no reason to disbelieve that he was there. If you believe her story, she puts him there, the prints put him there. If you don't believe her, the prints alone put him there. Devon died where he fell asleep. Not in the same position because it seems obvious to me that he defended himself, but there is nothing to suggest he crawled or walked around. Even the killer's story has him dying where he lay.
If the cast-off on the back of her nightshirt in Damon's blood and the knife outline in Darlie's blood in a place she says it wasn't after her blood was on the blade doesn't make you doubt her story, then I'm not sure what will. There is another good picture of the knife outline on Page 307: State's Ex: 11B Maybe you are beginning to doubt which is why you have so many questions. I know it must be difficult for you since you know the family, but the facts are there.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Your information appears to be incorrect. There was a knife removed from a neighbours yard. It was a knife the family was using, along with some other tools to edge their garden. The knife was sticking up from the ground in the mud. The alleged intruder would have had to break into that yard, take the knife, clean it, use it and then put it back exactly as he found it. Not logical. IMO.

You can verify this in the trial transcripts. Here's a link to his testimony

Don't remember the ME reporting there were two knives. Better check the trial trancripts to verify that.

The ME said it was IMPOSSIBLE to determine if the knife in evidence was the knife used in the attacks and/or that it was the ONLY knife. No second knife was EVER a fact.

 

[cami]

Ok I'll look harder next time .

Believe me I've had my doubts but unlike most Pro-Darlie supporters I need some convincing and won't throw mud at those I'm asking. Considering the media hype, a pro or con book I would like to Quote An old tv show ragnet and Sgt. Joe Friday: JUST THE FACTS MAMM, JUST THE FACTS.

The blood evidence establishes what order?
Wasn't it Devon -oldest first. 2 deep penetrating wounds another to
arm?
QUESTION:
? angle of entry, to determine
where was the killer standing, sitting, kneeling.

These blood drops, splatters, or runs on the glass top table, Whose blood , how deposited?

How did she do it, tie it ALL up for me please. Please let me know how she planted the sock too. None of the kitchen photos look like she tried to clean it up. The blood destroyd by Luminol really irks me because you never know it might have made the case airtight or set another investigave trail to follow.

Excuse me but I'm just an old hound dog, getting a sniff here and I'd like someone to walk me down this trail and enlighten me.

You say Darlie says she put the knife on the counter after she found it and Damons blood is on top of hers on the knife, CWB seems to establish a 2nd attack on him. This would explain why his wounds seem to be so spread out and more shallow in some instances, glancing off bone. Wouldn't also the angle of entry wounds be different showing the killer assuming two different postures. It would be almost be a statistically impossible to assume the exact same position twice to kill someone. I think this information is important and can be answered by looking closer at the forensics, since I'm dumb enough to consult a dr insteed of a blood specialist, I'd be grateful for some educated answers.

You folks, all you posters on both sides, have made me put on my thinking cap, found it in all the junk looking for my book. At my age it could be dangerous, it might make my head hurt. LOL.

Don't want you to hurt your head over this, LOL.

Yes, I agree that the difference in depth of the wounds could indicate two attacks on Damon with the second attack the more forceful the stabbing hence the deeper wounds. The blood indicates that Damon was stabbed, moved and was stabbed again. The cast-off blood on the wall near his final position and the cast-off blood on the back of Darlie's nightshirt...Damon's blood overlaying hers. The blood also indicates his initial position was on the floor in front of the couch where Darlie was allegedly sleeping.


I don't think the position Darlie was in has much to offer in the way of evidence. That sounds like a smoke screen to me. Why would a doctor think you have to assume the exact same position twice to stab someone. That makes no sense to me. Especially when you find you target crawling away.

The blood patterns also show that someone bleeding from the forearm, bled onto the murder weapon, hence the heavy concentration of blood at the tip of the knife. Someone stood there, near Damon, holding the knife in their hand while they bled down the arm and onto the knife. Darlie is the only person in this crime who was bleeding from the forearm.

The blood expert is trained to read the blood patterns and qualified to give his opinion as such. These were his findings. He also found blood patterns indicating the murder weapon was placed on the carpet, in the murder room, for a time. Yet, Darlie says she picked it up in the kitchen...... and placed it on the counter.... she says nothing about the murder room......:waitasec:

MOO

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

ok BUT if you are right DARIN HAS to be involved in this why can't the state nail him too. Didn't they test stuff that implicates him too. Is it true they let him shower before going to the hospital and change clothes. THAT WAS A BIG MISTAKE. I imagine none of the male cops let alone any female cops on the scene would have wanted to see Darin naked but in the interest of finding out the extent of his blood coverage they should have just cowboyed up. No broke back mountain implied here.
This is what also makes me angry about the case like in my friends Mark murder 2 people had to have been involved and only 1 of them is in prison, the police aren't even pursuing the 2nd killer.