***Day 4 -Committal Hearing*** 18th,19,20th March 2013***

[KG1]

Thank you to Thinking and all who have contributed with the twitter feeds and updates. The discussions have been excellent.

 

[Makara]

Thinking, thank you for taking the time to put together your summary of today's events for us. It's very much appreciated and I felt like I was actually there. :tyou:

 

[CouchCop]

I have just re-read the autopsy report and it sends shivers down my spine. It mortifies me that someone might be sitting in a cell of Arthur Gorrie knowing that he was responsible for this! The smart part of my brain tells me that death is death and so kinda insignificant if you have maggots eating you out, but what a tragic tragic end to the life of a beautiful person. One of the most worrying aspects of the autopsy was the total state of decomposition Allison was found in. The extent of decomposition could have masked so many dreadful inflictions of pain and injury. Dr Watson might be able to offer some commentary on how maggots might have targetted wound areas. I know that the husband is innocent until proven otherwise, but I really struggle to think that the perp of this crime can sit back and watch and let it happen. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the perp intended for the victim to decompose beyond any good lab results?

 

[Bayside]

I have a couple of niggling thoughts.. sorry if this has all been thrashed out in a previous thread. Allison must have known things were financially dire, yet she had her hair done. Did she know that TM would be there & wanted to look her best, planning to attend with another member of staff from a struggling business maybe for moral support?
The other was why were her clothes so large? Were they actually Allison's? Or where they just easier for someone to dress her in?

There was a mention that Allison was getting her hair redone after the hairdresser hadnt done it properly previously. So I would assume that she wouldnt have paid for that if it were true.

 

[LadyBird1]

He could have got the injuries leaning over the Kholo bridge too, holding and trying to position a body to go as far under the bridge as he could direct it. MOO

That is the exact vision I have in my mind's eye. Hanging her over the bridge rail resulting in the jumper pulled over her head as it was, and ensuring suffocation strangulation. IMO.

 

[DrWatson]

I was thinking about the phone last night and thought ... what if he buried just the sim card in the neighbours yard?... but then I don't think a sim card would transmit a signal without installed in a phone. Any ideas if a sim card could send signals without a phone?

Without the phone, or more specifically the power supplied by the phone's battery, the SIM card is just an inanimate object. Totally passive. Can't do a thing. Except it WOULD be picked up by a metal detector - and there were a LOT of metals detectors being trawled through that whole area behind the BC house after that blue dot appeared on the FMF App on GBC's phone when Const Thomson used it.

Also, in answer to an earlier question about who may have been using Allison's phone at 6:31am for Internet access... - the answer is it didn't need to be anybody. If the phone is switched on, then all sorts of services can initiate Internet access all by themselves, such as checking for emails, iMessages, various other location-based services, etc.

Oh wouldn't Allison's phone have had tales to tell if it had been found?!?!?

 

[linette]

after going over Tonis stuff today, it still baffles me that the business partnership between Ben and Jocelyn and Phillip lasted as long as it did.. you just could NOT run a business, a business that relied heavily on public good will with that kind of craziness going on between staff ( which Toni was) and management.. It was never going to work. It makes perfect sense that they copped a loss, and bailed out as quickly as they could , each one of them in different ways.. there are some situations one gladly pays to get out of.

In Jocelyn Frosts statement she just drops a remark. .. she says'.. Toni couldnt cope without Gerard ' ......and from Thinking and Laifdans reports, it seems she isnt coping at all, without Gerard. Something very very toxic went on between her and Gerard , a sort of Calibanish thing, she really did become his creature, relationship or not, sex or not, money or not, she couldnt and probably cant still cope without him. From the early days of it, she was enthralled enough to leave her husband/de facto of 17 years, drag the boys into a back and forth custody arrangement, it all was peripheral to Gerard, Gerard, Gerard...

and yet she was treated like a dog and barked and whimpered for more, for more.. it doesnt make for easy reading.. and there is something in Gerard that needed this sort of clingy, demanding yet powerless persistancy she demonstrated, her relentlessly grindingly useless hopes and dreams . The Hope. The Promise.

In Ben Bassingthwaites statement, I think, he says, that Toni thought Allison had been picked up by someone and run away to 'teach Gerard a lesson'.. . I have to wonder at that peculiar and deeply irrational reasoning. She was not ticking right, probably never has, and is still not ticking right

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to point out earlier. The fact the ball was always in his court regarding Toni and what happened with the relationship. Even though she probably didn't know it at the time, he had her by the proverbial balls... then things started to turn. He used her for what he could or thought he could get. He led her to believe she would one day be more than a mistress. If you're a good enough con man you'd be surprised at who you can fool. You don't even have to be dumb to be fooled.

 

[DrWatson]

I have just re-read the autopsy report and it sends shivers down my spine.
<snipped>
Dr Watson might be able to offer some commentary on how maggots might have targetted wound areas.

Basically flies lay eggs on all sorts of exposed tissues, but the eggs don't do very well on skin. However in wounds, they thrive and hatch into maggots (which are the larval stages of flies).

At the risk of grossing you out - maggots have been - and still are in many places - used therapeutically to clean wounds out. If a wound is dirty and infected, with a lot of dead tissue in it (called "slough"), it is actually highly effective to seed the wound with maggots, cover it with dressings, and simply let the maggots eat the dead tissue, while they leave the living tissue. Gross, I know, but effective.

The point being that maggots eat necrotic (i.e. dead) tissue - and hence finding them in open wounds, on both living patients and dead ones. I have seen quite a few patients with chronic venous ulcers around the ankles, for example, who live in less than hygienic conditions and who have had no proper wound care, and they present to hospital with maggots all through the ulcers.

So, when a body is left to decompose, the bits that become exposed from under the skin by whatever mechanism, are going to attract flies and subsequently, maggots.

Maggots also make good bait on hooks for fishing - British anglers call them "gentles". Trivia for the night

 

[BJsleuth]

Without the phone, or more specifically the power supplied by the phone's battery, the SIM card is just an inanimate object. Totally passive. Can't do a thing. Except it WOULD be picked up by a metal detector - and there were a LOT of metals detectors being trawled through that whole area behind the BC house after that blue dot appeared on the FMF App on GBC's phone when Const Thomson used it.

Also, in answer to an earlier question about who may have been using Allison's phone at 6:31am for Internet access... - the answer is it didn't need to be anybody. If the phone is switched on, then all sorts of services can initiate Internet access all by themselves, such as checking for emails, iMessages, various other location-based services, etc.

Oh wouldn't Allison's phone have had tales to tell if it had been found?!?!?

Yes it would. It just seems terribly convenient that it connected a minute before Gerard first called her. What are the odds?

 

[WestOz]

Yes it would. It just seems terribly convenient that it connected a minute before Gerard first called her. What are the odds?

That's what I'm thinking BJ. Although, I think my mistake is in trying to find absolutes and they just aren't available.

 

[BJsleuth]

For the phone to remain connected to the internet for the 12-13 hours, would it have been downloading the whole time? Would it ordinarily disconnect once it had completed whatever it was doing?

 

[Maigret]

For the phone to remain connected to the internet for the 12-13 hours, would it have been downloading the whole time? Would it ordinarily disconnect once it had completed whatever it was doing?

I would have thought so but if you look at the Internet connection records of the other phones they also connect and stay connected for long periods of time

 

[Maigret]

Just posted this on the other thread

I'm still trawling through GBC's phone records - there's an awful lot to go through too - on the 5th April at 5.25 am his phone connected to the Internet at Fig Tree Pocket and stayed connected for eleven and a half hours
But a couple of sms made after 9am on that day originated from fortitude valley and valley central
And lots of calls on that day originated from all around - so it looks like the Fig Tree pocket Internet connection for Allison's phone doesn't mean it was in that area still for that whole time
Last edited by Maigret; Today at 06:49 AM. Reason: Extra

 

[Fuskier]

He could have got the injuries leaning over the Kholo bridge too, holding and trying to position a body to go as far under the bridge as he could direct it. MOO

That scenario crossed my mind as well KG1.

 

[Cyansea]

Just posted this on the other thread

I'm still trawling through GBC's phone records - there's an awful lot to go through too - on the 5th April at 5.25 am his phone connected to the Internet at Fig Tree Pocket and stayed connected for eleven and a half hours
But a couple of sms made after 9am on that day originated from fortitude valley and valley central
And lots of calls on that day originated from all around - so it looks like the Fig Tree pocket Internet connection for Allison's phone doesn't mean it was in that area still for that whole time
Last edited by Maigret; Today at 06:49 AM. Reason: Extra

Maigret, good work! So his phone was connected to FTP for 11.5 hrs, very interesting, now I will be thinking about that all day, I find it fascinating and my boss won't be getting much work out of me now as I'll be thinking about that! Good Luck today everyone that we get to hear some more strong testimony.
I'll try and log in if I can (IT work restrictions, sometimes I can sometimes I can't, weird). Anyway I'll be checking the rolling coverage. I'm nervous but will say I am very confident that it will go to trial, obviously the judge wants to hear more, anyway. Ciao for now, I'll be thinking of you guys! :seeya:

 

[whitechapel]

He could have got the injuries leaning over the Kholo bridge too, holding and trying to position a body to go as far under the bridge as he could direct it. MOO

I like that theory !
So it didn't get washed out into the Brisbane river where it may never have been found. As we know, the body needed to be found to collect on the insurance in time for him to pay off all his looming debts.

There has to be a reason why he had all these injuries and I think the injuries were the reason he crashed into the bridge - to help mask thhem.


I wonder if he panicked and revisited the scene to make the body was still there after all the deluge of rain.

IMO/MOO

 

[Hillsdon]

From today's paper

Tears in court as lover Toni McHugh testified in Gerard Baden-Clay's committal hearing

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ommittal-hearing/story-e6freoof-1226600160604

 

[Thinking]

lol, I wonder if GBC is worried about Brucey coming up...the whole thing of having the email (apparently for sometime) is weird and embarrassing and cant really be explained.

I wonder where the name came from?

Another thing which I find strange is the openess of feelings, most men I know dont openly declare love the way he allegedly did to the business partners about TM...also in the blog posts about his family life... it's all very different to how most men communicate?

I agree that most men do not declare their feelings or communicate in this way, in my experience. Over my life so far I have come across a few who did communicate like GBC, and they always turned out to be full of %#&! -! I always had an inherent inner alarm bell for this type of man thankfully, and this is a trait I will be strongly warning my daughter about when she is old enough. It is completely superficial.

 

[frustrated detective]

Overnight I have wondered what Toni McHugh would have answered if she had been asked "do you think Gerard killed Allison?"

 

[linette]

Overnight I have wondered what Toni McHugh would have answered if she had been asked "do you think Gerard killed Allison?"

Strange you should say that. That exact thought crossed my mind as I washing the dishes last night.