DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #13

[Millhouse]

Young Philip has been described by many as being exceptionally mature and well-spoken for his age.

A child with a strong sense of self who has the ability to say 'no' to something they know is wrong, sensing when a stranger doesn't have their best interest in mind...

I could totally imagine an old-soul 10-year old child or precocious child younger than that speaking to an adult stranger that way. A secure, self-confident child could stick up for themselves like that, or it could also be a symptom of the concussion.

AS' comment saying he was scheduled to return to school on Wednesday and that she hoped it would be different this time. I don't know what she meant it to be different from, but maybe he was having some concussion-related issues? Anger and temper can be symptoms and he certainly sounded angry to me.

http://www.cdc.gov/concussion/pdf/Facts_about_Concussion_TBI-a.pdf

I think that one or both of the daughter's had concussion problems, so it could be in reference to that (although, I don't know if Philip had previous concussions).

Refers to some of the previous concussions in the family in this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...5e5e24-0545-11e5-bc72-f3e16bf50bb6_story.html

 

[OliveEliot]

In regards to the discussion of how sad it us that VF's husband didn't call the police Wed night or Thursday morning: I suppose it's possible he is in the US illegally, and if so that could make someone very reluctant to bring attention to themselves from the police.

 

[dish1234]

i

Yes. NG received a call from SS mom. It was listed in GMA timeline. Perhaps, NG used to clean for his parents when they lived in DC.

https://gma.yahoo.com/timeline-myst...ire-raise-045100957--abc-news-topstories.html

Thank you! I knew I'd read this somewhere.

 

[FelicityLemon]

RE: Pizza delivery

I too order pizza on a fairly regular basis and my customer information immediately comes up based on my telephone number; however, while I pay with a credit card, I am still required to sign the sales slip upon delivery. Without my signature authorizing the sale, the sale is not valid and cannot be processed. I've read other posters comment that they too have had pizza delivered and simply left by the delivery person - without having to sign (authorize) the sales receipt - so I'm puzzled as to how that can be?

I ordered Dominos for the first time this week - totally unrelated to this case.

I phone ordered, talked to guy who turned out to be the same one who delivered it. I paid via CC on the phone including the security code on the back of the card. I expected a printout receipt to sign just like from Round Table (that we order from a few times a year).

When the guy arrived, he had me sign a one of those old-school slider type credit card carbon receipts. The worrying thing is, he didn't ask to see my card like RT does, he didn't have the actual machine with him, just the carbon receipt with BLANK AREA where all business info should be, the receipt showed only the money due. Odd and suspicious to me. I, myself, wrote on it Domino's Pizza, 2 pizzas and the date and then I had to ask for my copy from the guy as he walked away.

I'll continue to monitor my bank acct to see if a charge shows up with the amount charged for the order because this is just so unusual in my experience of 30 years ordering pizza.

 

[rkf]

JW went back after the fire had been reported, after someone had called AIW and someone from AIW called him. He parked a block away because you couldn't get any closer. It looks like he left with the police to be questioned at the station. There is nothing about him returning to the house that is suspicious to me, especially since he was public about the fact that he was returning.

He clearly lied to cover up something but I don't think it was this crime. As I've written before, I think he thought there was something not right about the money, or something SS wanted to keep confidential. SS was not identified at this time and there was some belief that the man found in the fire was an employee of the family, not SS. They were not releasing any names publicly and JW had every reason to think SS was still alive and still his boss. I think that explains why he wasn't trying to reach SS -- he wasn't concerned. He assumed SS was at the dojo or somewhere else. AS was the one he was concerned about.

The one thing that give me pause about JW was not answering the call from SS after he dropped off the money. Do we know if SS left a message or also sent a text? if so, it could have been as simple as "got the money," in a message or a text and JW would have seen no reason to respond.

As for the pizza, there is no way a pizza delivery person would assume the family was being held hostage. No one would think that. THey could have been in a back room watching a movie on TV and thats why the lights were off. There's no reason why a pizza delivery person would even take the time to wonder.

And if SS wanted to send a secret message that they needed help he would have succeeded. Its clear to me he thought his son would be safer if he cooperated.

JW knew SS wasn't at the dojo, because JW was at the dojo. Also, why would SS ask JW to leave money in a car in the garage at the house if he was elsewhere?

 

[rkf]

RE: Pizza delivery

I too order pizza on a fairly regular basis and my customer information immediately comes up based on my telephone number; however, while I pay with a credit card, I am still required to sign the sales slip upon delivery. Without my signature authorizing the sale, the sale is not valid and cannot be processed. I've read other posters comment that they too have had pizza delivered and simply left by the delivery person - without having to sign (authorize) the sales receipt - so I'm puzzled as to how that can be?

Maybe that's why the pizza place called her back - they couldn't leave it on the porch if she paid by credit card and couldn't sign the slip. So they left cash in an envelope instead... JMO

 

[Carolyn1963]

I wonder who else SS spoke to on the phone during this horrific ordeal?

 

[rkf]

Thanks Skygirl, I like "just the facts, ma'am" and I hope that something I find will be seen by the right eyes (LE.) In this case, thanks to bondgirl, there may be another aspect to his working at Metal Fab Inc. If it turns out that he was there in 2008 and the division is some type of AIW affiliate or subsidiary then that significantly changes the last time that DDW was associated with a SS company. When I noted he was working in a metals job in 2008 it was mainly to show that he didn't necessarily lose his ability to work in his area of training after his 2003-2005 stint at AIW, proper. (Let's see if we can find ownership info on Metal Fab Inc for the years or time frame DDW worked there.)

I remember coming across MetalFabulous earlier, but I think it was because they won a building award sometime in the relatively recent past. AIW also won more than one award from the same group. Can't remember who... MetalFabulous might be one of the "minority-owned firms" that AIW "mentors".

Today we mentor five minority owned firms, striving constantly to help them grow into sustainable businesses.


http://www.americanironworks.com/missionStatement.aspx

 

[Paulas88]

In regards to the discussion of how sad it us that VF's husband didn't call the police Wed night or Thursday morning: I suppose it's possible he is in the US illegally, and if so that could make someone very reluctant to bring attention to themselves from the police.

Is it possible that NG didn't have VF's husbands phone number? And that is
why she kept calling VF's cell Thursday to no avail?

Also, NG may have been asleep when SS left VM Wednesday eve? She
has a very physical job, and probably goes to sleep early? I know I do.

Another-thing I learned on 20/20 last night: VF's husband works the graveyard shift, so I guess this would explain why he didn't come to the SS home Wednesday eve to inquire on VF's whereabouts?

 

[rkf]

He called around 9:30 pm. He is not her boss - she works for him, but she is not an employee.

That is definitely after hours. Phone calls after 9pm are unacceptable, IMO. There comes a time when it is acceptable for people to be on their own time. She was not working for him the next day, so it wasn't a change of plans for that.

I see nothing wrong with her not answering that call and not listening to the VM the next day.

In her numerous interviews, NG has made it clear that their relationship was more than just that she worked for SS. Either they had a closer relationship than "her business provided a service to his home (and business)" and I would expect her to pick up a call or listen to a VM as soon as she saw it, or the relationship was just business, in which case she should get out from in front of the cameras... Either way, if she knew the family as well as she says, she would know they wouldn't want her gabbing about them to every reporter who approaches her. I think the S family's true friends have respected the family's wish for privacy and dignity. NG - not so much.

ETA: I agree 9:30 is outside of business hours if it is simply a "business relationship".

 

[katydid23]

I just think it's HIGHLY unlikely that one person would have been able to simultaneously control three grown adults (one of whom had formal training in martial arts) and a 10 year old in two separate rooms, while also having the ability to order a pizza, control SS and AS communications to various people, and coordinate receipt of the cash.

Honestly, I would be a little bit surprised if fewer than three people were involved. I still don't think DW is the person seen running from the burning vehicle... DW just has an entirely different build than what appears to be shown in the video. https://youtu.be/J4oMxwTNgaM

I'm still perplexed that none of the people taken into custody at the time of DW arrest were found to have any direct involvement.

It might be unlikely, but it is not IMPOSSIBLE. It has been done before, sadly enough. { Groene family, one tragic example]

DW is a big strong guy. He could have overpowered one of the women first, and forced them back into the house. Disabled them, then surprised the other. Phillip was up in his room, probably playing video games or listening to music/tv, so he would be no problem. Once he had the 3 of them tied up, duct taped, gagged, he could easily deal with SS when he arrived home. He could hit him from behind with a bat for example, just injured enough to stun him, bind him to the chair. A knife to his wife's throat would keep him under control when he spoke on the phone.

LE keeps saying that more were involved. So they must know things that we don't. But just in general, one strong, but sick sadistic creep CAN pull off a home invasion by themselves.

 

[FelicityLemon]

He called around 9:30 pm. He is not her boss - she works for him, but she is not an employee.

That is definitely after hours. Phone calls after 9pm are unacceptable, IMO. There comes a time when it is acceptable for people to be on their own time. She was not working for him the next day, so it wasn't a change of plans for that.

I see nothing wrong with her not answering that call and not listening to the VM the next day.

I have to add in defense of messages possibly being ignored or unreturned, and at the same time condemn Verizon Wireless. Maybe it's just our state that has problems with not getting phone calls or voicemails.

1) I can be sitting right here with the phone, it doesn't ring but will alert me to a "missed message".

2) I can be sitting right here with the phone, DH and my Mom will test and call me from the same room. No ringing, no message alert. I'm sitting right there. I call them to test, DH's rang, Mom's did not.

3) This one is REALLY a problem: voicemails not showing up for as many 10 days up to 3 weeks after they're left. In some cases, I'm expecting an important (doctor died) message and when it doesn't come as scheduled, I call various times throughout the day, every day. Nothing. Three weeks later, I get a New Message alert! I listen to the envelope and it tells me that it came in three weeks ago, but that's not true. And it's unacceptable because people swear they left a message, but I'm not getting it, they don't believe me and think I'm ignoring it until it happens to them.

4) Our flip-phones (go ahead and laugh, I do) don't have text capabilities, so I don't know about those issues if there are any.

Our phones are on, charged and ringers on with signals. DH is a tech guy, so we are thorough (anal) in our tests and experiments. It's hit and miss.
We know the difference between messages that are left at the time of the call and when calls are left strictly as messages without making an actual phone call, like coming in through the backdoor as not to disturb someone with the alarm or worry of a ringing phone in the wee hours.

A call comes through fine, two minutes later, it goes directly to vm, but we might not get it for days or weeks even though we call in to retrieve messages, they sometimes won't be there even though we're sitting next to each other and hear the message at the time of leaving.

 

[rkf]

We don't know if Gutierrez called Vera's husband or not, I don't think, because I don't think that has ever been put out there by the media. And, if she did, it would have had to have been the next morning/Thursday anyway, because that's when she checked her phone and retrieved the voicemail from Savvas from the previous night which included the information that Vera was staying over, that Vera's phone was not charged, etc. Getting that voicemail was what prompted her to start trying to call Vera, Amy, etc. She wasn't calling or texting anyone about this the night before/Wednesday, because, to her, everything was fine. To her, Vera wasn't still at the Savopouloses' house/has gone home, and nothing was amiss.

LE wouldn't have to get a warrant to search Gutierrez's phone if she willing handed it over to them/was cooperating with them fully.

I don't want to add speculation and misinformation, but didn't Gutierrez hear about the fire at the house because Savvas' mother called her? I feel like read that somewhere in one of the news reports but now I can't find it. I only ask because if that was the case, I think that again shows that she might have been close to the S family. I mean, my mother doesn't have my housekeeper's number; she doesn't even know her name. But, perhaps it's possible that Gutierrez cleaned for them both.

I feel there is just so, so, so much that we know nothing about when it comes to these murders. I feel like so much more is going to be revealed as time goes on. I don't mean in relationship to Gutierrez in particular, but overall, as more information comes out from LE and as they build their case.

I believe NG said in an early interview that she didn't call AB (VF's husband - found his name) because she figured it was already the next day when she got the message. That answer never made sense, but it didn't seem huge at the time. Might have been the same interview where she said SS' mother called to tell her about the fire "to see if she was okay" (paraphrasing). I saw the interview, too, but am too lazy to find a link.

ETA: The only way this makes sense to me is if NG worked for both SS and his parents.

Also ETA: I think LE would need a SW to get the phone records even if NG cooperated fully and gave them her phone. JMO

 

[katydid23]

SS would have succeeded in sending a signal if thats what he wanted to do. Instead he was heard repeatedly reassuring anyone who raised a question. There was a story for everything. Yes, I'm sure he had to say these things and he could have said them and also sent a signal. but he didn't. The general impression is pretty clear -- he believed that the best way to save his son's life was to cooperate and that if teh police came they would be killed.

I agree. I think that SS harbored hope that the monster would leave when the money arrived. And he knew that even if the cops drove up his driveway, the family would not be out of danger. DW would probably slit his wife and son's throats if that happened. So he did not try and send any signals. He did the opposite. Sadly enough.

 

[rkf]

SS would have succeeded in sending a signal if thats what he wanted to do. Instead he was heard repeatedly reassuring anyone who raised a question. There was a story for everything. Yes, I'm sure he had to say these things and he could have said them and also sent a signal. but he didn't. The general impression is pretty clear -- he believed that the best way to save his son's life was to cooperate and that if teh police came they would be killed.

I don't think that is clear. I DO think if he WAS trying to send a message, he would have to be VERY discrete to not raise the perp(s) suspicions. Unfortunately, any "message" will only be decoded in hindsight and would probably be contained in information to which we are not yet (or ever?) privy.

ETA: Just because someone didn't interpret the signal doesn't mean it wasn't sent.

 

[rkf]

Young Philip has been described by many as being exceptionally mature and well-spoken for his age.

A child with a strong sense of self who has the ability to say 'no' to something they know is wrong, sensing when a stranger doesn't have their best interest in mind...

I could totally imagine an old-soul 10-year old child or precocious child younger than that speaking to an adult stranger that way. A secure, self-confident child could stick up for themselves like that, or it could also be a symptom of the concussion.

AS' comment saying he was scheduled to return to school on Wednesday and that she hoped it would be different this time. I don't know what she meant it to be different from, but maybe he was having some concussion-related issues? Anger and temper can be symptoms and he certainly sounded angry to me.

http://www.cdc.gov/concussion/pdf/Facts_about_Concussion_TBI-a.pdf

Her daughters had concussions previously, and I infer from the comment that the schools didn't handle the situation as well as AS would have liked. I also wonder if one of the daughters who suffered a pretty significant concussion spent part or all of the year in the Virgin Islands with the family. Did she take a year or part of the year off to recuperate? That would explain why she graduated at 19. (I have a child who will graduate at 19, but we put him in "pre-K" before kindergarten, so he is one of the oldest kids in his class.)

 

[DexterMorgan]

I have to add in defense of messages possibly being ignored or unreturned, and at the same time condemn Verizon Wireless. Maybe it's just out state that has problems with not getting phone calls or voicemails.

1) I can be sitting right here with the phone, it doesn't ring but will alert me to a "missed message".

2) I can be sitting right here with the phone, DH and my Mom will test and call me from the same room. No ringing, no message alert. I'm sitting right there. I call them to test, DH's rang, Mom's did not.

3) This one is REALLY a problem: voicemails not showing up for as many 10 days up to 3 weeks after they're left. In some cases, I'm expecting an important (doctor died) message and when it doesn't come as scheduled, I call various times throughout the day, every day. Nothing. Three weeks later, I get a New Message alert! I listen to the envelope and it tells me that it came in three weeks ago, but that's not true. And it's unacceptable because people swear they left a message, but I'm not getting it, they don't believe me and think I'm ignoring it until it happens to them.

4) Our flip-phones (go ahead and laugh, I do) don't have text capabilities, so I don't know about those issues if there are any.

Our phones are on, charged and ringers on with signals. DH is a tech guy, so we are thorough (anal) in our tests and experiments. It's hit and miss.
We know the difference between messages that are left at the time of the call and when calls are left strictly as messages without making an actual phone call, like coming in through the backdoor as not to disturb someone with the alarm or worry of a ringing phone in the wee hours.

A call comes through fine, two minutes later, it goes directly to vm, but we might not get it for days or weeks even though we call in to retrieve messages, they sometimes won't be there even though we're sitting next to each other and hear the message at the time of leaving.

Agree. This happens alot especially if there is a low signal showing on phone.

 

[corundogs]

I ordered Dominos for the first time this week - totally unrelated to this case.

I phone ordered, talked to guy who turned out to be the same one who delivered it. I paid via CC on the phone including the security code on the back of the card. I expected a printout receipt to sign just like from Round Table (that we order from a few times a year).

When the guy arrived, he had me sign a one of those old-school slider type credit card carbon receipts. The worrying thing is, he didn't ask to see my card like RT does, he didn't have the actual machine with him, just the carbon receipt with BLANK AREA where all business info should be, the receipt showed only the money due. Odd and suspicious to me. I, myself, wrote on it Domino's Pizza, 2 pizzas and the date and then I had to ask for my copy from the guy as he walked away.

I'll continue to monitor my bank acct to see if a charge shows up with the amount charged for the order because this is just so unusual in my experience of 30 years ordering pizza.

OK...that is super weird!!! I would call Dominos corporate if I were you. The only reason I can see something like that happening is if their processing machines were down or something.

 

[corundogs]

Maybe that's why the pizza place called her back - they couldn't leave it on the porch if she paid by credit card and couldn't sign the slip. So they left cash in an envelope instead... JMO

Did Dominos say they called AS back??? I hadn't heard that...

 

[rkf]

I have to dial to listen to my voicemail, and it shows up on my phone's call log. I don't know if that's how it works on every cell provider, but I have to dial on Verizon. It might not show for certain what message you listened to, but I think you could see when someone at least called in to their voicemail box in general.

NG has an iPhone. For mine, I just click on the VM message - no dialing. I have Verizon, too. http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/img/557c6b71284463-80243882