DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #17

[rkf]

So could JW have gone back to house, parked the BMW a block away. Driven the Porsche to the church parking lot and then ubered/cabbed back to the BMW to arrive around 2 (maybe 2:30)? That way he could get his car, etc.

i still think the Porsche was planned to be stolen but then things went wrong and they had to burn it. Either that, or there was major evidence in it.

To me, the burning Porsche and the role it played re:JW has not been explored enough.

I don't think the Porsche was set on fire until closer to the time it was discovered. If he took the Porsche to the parking lot (or wherever) someone else would have had to set it on fire, IMO.

 

[TexMex]

I don't believe he said that. He asked (rhetorically?) if the evidence exists. He did not say "I don't believe it exists" or "It doesn't exist." It's a trick those talking heads do - they don't actually say anything, but they expect the listener to fill in the blanks with their own opinion, so no matter what, he's "right" (or at least not wrong.) Washington DC is full of these guys.

Of course it's his opinion. And as a former FBI agent who has experience in these matters I respect his opinion that it's reasonable to ask at this stage regarding evidence of involvement of others "does that exist?"

 

[rkf]

Of course it's his opinion. And as a former FBI agent who has experience in these matters I respect his opinion that it's reasonable to ask at this stage regarding evidence of involvement of others "does that exist?"

I absolutely agree it's reasonable to ask. I just don't think that asking means the answer is "no" or "yes". I think we're all wondering the same thing - if there is additional forensic evidence, etc., does it point to DW, DW and someone else, or someone else? If other than DW, why hasn't anyone else been arrested? It's been a long time since we heard any new news. I noticed in a Washington Post article on July 1st that the reporter said "Police have said they think more than one person may have been involved...", but did he confirmed that was still true when he wrote the article or is he just recycling the same old information from May? Wish I knew.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...c7d4c8-1ddb-11e5-84d5-eb37ee8eaa61_story.html

 

[kammiemc]

If LE wants to keep details of the case quiet, they would be crazy to share them with Hosko. I think if LE wants to give out information, they'll do it themselves. JMO

Having read a bunch of the transcripts of Hosko on MSM opining about the case, it doesn't appear that he has any more information than we do. He has said a lot of things in addition to the quote about LE having time to collect forensic evidence at the house. A few examples:

* About JW lying to investigators: "If you're lying about something that seems inconsequential, than usually there is a reason for that," Ron Hosko, the former Assistant Director of the FBI explained. http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/dc/2015/06/04/police-search-car-savopolous-assistant/28493037/
* Former FBI Director Ron Hosko says detectives are trying to find if there’s any connection between Wint and Wallace. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/06/04/investigators-reveal-new-clues-in-dc-mansion-murders/
*"It is incredibly brazen. Shows an element of calm that the person didn't feel rushed." and "Certainly, he was sadistic killer. The son might have been used as the tool to make sure the parents were compliant."
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1505/21/ebo.01.html
* About SS' VM to NG: "Well it's going to tell me one I need to get that recording analyze to see are there extremeness noises that are spiking up in the background." and "Is that somebody in the background under the rest hollering?" On AS text to NG: "That would indicate that the event has started that the offender or the offenders are in the house with Amy that she's under their control." On DNA on the pizza crust: "That looks like the pivotal piece of evidence." On Savvas calling AB (VF's husband) on Thursday morning: "Well, certainly that Mr. Savopoulos is still alive, the manipulation is ongoing because the plot to deliver the money is still on working progress." On the victims being stabbed: "It seems as though the killer enjoyed going about his work." On the well-groomed man seen driving the Porsche on Thursday: "Is this a coconspirator? Did he call a friend and say, "Come get this car for me?" And if so, who's the friend?"
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1506/23/csr.02.html

Thx for this! (No thx button on Tapatalk right now.) I fully agree with you in your assessment that Chief Lanier was saying that the investigation is ongoing and that the retired FBI guy posed a question asking if they have forensic evidence against anyone. It would be impossible for me to draw from either of those statements that Wint acted alone and that there will be no more arrests.

 

[al66pine]

So could JW have gone back to house, parked the BMW a block away. Driven the Porsche to the church parking lot and then ubered/cabbed back to the BMW to arrive around 2 (maybe 2:30)? That way he could get his car, etc.
i still think the Porsche was planned to be stolen but then things went wrong and they had to burn it. Either that, or there was major evidence in it.
To me, the burning Porsche and the role it played re:JW has not been explored enough.

No opn here about Porsche timeline, who was in car, etc. And agreeing DDW et al probably planned to & did steal Porsche.

I wonder - why abandon & torch the Porsche? Any reason besides destroying DNA, forensic evd tying to deaths?
Possibilities:
? They (who-ev) had arranged a sale to a certain buyer. Something went wrong.
? Buyer did not show at all? Buyer did not have full purchase price?
? Accident en route to meeting place? So much damage - buyer would either not pay agreed-on price or only a fraction?
? Anticipating buyer could return later & take damaged car for free, driver prevented this by torching car?
? Accident en route - a hit & run w pedestrian, or other vehicle? Wanted to destroy DNA, etc tying driver to H & R accident?
? Pure spite?
? What else?

Just possibilities, not even my opn on above.

 

[facundo]

No opn here about Porsche timeline, who was in car, etc. And agreeing DDW et al probably planned to & did steal Porsche.

I wonder - why abandon & torch the Porsche? Any reason besides destroying DNA, forensic evd tying to deaths?
Possibilities:
? They (who-ev) had arranged a sale to a certain buyer. Something went wrong.
? Buyer did not show at all? Buyer did not have full purchase price?
? Accident en route to meeting place? So much damage - buyer would either not pay agreed-on price or only a fraction?
? Anticipating buyer could return later & take damaged car for free, driver prevented this by torching car?
? Accident en route - a hit & run w pedestrian, or other vehicle? Wanted to destroy DNA, etc tying driver to H & R accident?
? Pure spite?
? What else?

Just possibilities, not even my opn on above.

After the crime and torching of the house local TV and radio stations were broadcasting news about the crime and DCMP bulletin requesting anyone who may have seen the Porsche to call the Tip Line. As anyone driving in DC, Wint probably heard it on the radio and realized that people were going to be on the lookout for the car he was driving.

 

[kammiemc]

After the crime and torching of the house local TV and radio stations were broadcasting news about the crime and DCMP bulletin requesting anyone who may have seen the Porsche to call the Tip Line. As anyone driving in DC, Wint probably heard it on the radio and realized that people were going to be on the lookout for the car he was driving.

That's what I am thinking, too, along with trying to get rid of the DNA. However, seems a little counterintuitive to torch it, since that would draw immediate attention. Especially near to where he lived.

 

[Skigirl]

After the crime and torching of the house local TV and radio stations were broadcasting news about the crime and DCMP bulletin requesting anyone who may have seen the Porsche to call the Tip Line. As anyone driving in DC, Wint probably heard it on the radio and realized that people were going to be on the lookout for the car he was driving.

Does anyone know if the porsche was likely to be the outermost car in the cluster of cars in the driveway? Was it the one SS drove? I found an electronic bulletin board post of his from long ago saying that he wanted to buy a new porsche because his wife was refusing to drive the old one because of some annoying problem with it. Or would that have been the one that SS drove home in when AS called him? Just wondering if there was a reason that car was chosen to drive away in (e.g., did it have an automatic transmission whereas some of the others had manual transmissions? DW liked it? It was the one at the end of the driveway? It was the one that had easy-to-find keys?).

 

[Skigirl]

That's what I am thinking, too, along with trying to get rid of the DNA. However, seems a little counterintuitive to torch it, since that would draw immediate attention. Especially near to where he lived.

I have a vague recollection of something in the search warrants implying that LE was looking for a police scanner; I'll have to go back and look. If the perps were monitoring police transmissions, that would be a good reason to torch the car ASAP, especially if person 1 (not the driver) called to let person 2 (the driver) know that they just heard a transmission about a sighting near Latham. Otherwise, I agree it's pretty counter-intuitive -- why not send up a flare? Seems like it would be better/more discreet to roll it into a body of water, but then again, maybe a body of water wasn't immediately available.

 

[kammiemc]

Does anyone know if the porsche was likely to be the outermost car in the cluster of cars in the driveway? Was it the one SS drove? I found an electronic bulletin board post of his from long ago saying that he wanted to buy a new porsche because his wife was refusing to drive the old one because of some annoying problem with it. Or would that have been the one that SS drove home in when AS called him? Just wondering if there was a reason that car was chosen to drive away in (e.g., did it have an automatic transmission whereas some of the others had manual transmissions? DW liked it? It was the one at the end of the driveway? It was the one that had easy-to-find keys?).

I believe that it was reported that VF's husband saw the Porsche parked on the street. He said that is why he thought something was weird (what I took to mean that he thought it meant someone was home).

Here is a link!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-housekeepers-husband-tells-strange-phone-call-fire/story?id=31182090

 

[al66pine]

... transcripts of Hosko on MSM opining about the case, it doesn't appear that he has any more information... A few examples:

* About JW lying to investigators: "If you're lying about something that seems inconsequential, than usually there is a reason for that," Ron Hosko, the former Assistant Director of the FBI explained. http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/dc/2015/06/04/police-search-car-savopolous-assistant/28493037/
* Former FBI Director Ron Hosko says detectives are trying to find if there’s any connection between Wint and Wallace. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/06/04/investigators-reveal-new-clues-in-dc-mansion-murders/
*"It is incredibly brazen. Shows an element of calm that the person didn't feel rushed." and "Certainly, he was sadistic killer. The son might have been used as the tool to make sure the parents were compliant."
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1505/21/ebo.01.html
* About SS' VM to NG: "Well it's going to tell me one I need to get that recording analyze to see are there extremeness noises that are spiking up in the background." and "Is that somebody in the background under the rest hollering?" On AS text to NG: "That would indicate that the event has started that the offender or the offenders are in the house with Amy that she's under their control." On DNA on the pizza crust: "That looks like the pivotal piece of evidence." On Savvas calling AB (VF's husband) on Thursday morning: "Well, certainly that Mr. Savopoulos is still alive, the manipulation is ongoing because the plot to deliver the money is still on working progress." On the victims being stabbed: "It seems as though the killer enjoyed going about his work." On the well-groomed man seen driving the Porsche on Thursday: "Is this a coconspirator? Did he call a friend and say, "Come get this car for me?" And if so, who's the friend?"
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1506/23/csr.02.html

sbm

Thanks, rkf, for ferreting out all the above and quoting MSM and Hosko.

Interesting in light of Hosko's earlier question - is the evd there?
Do any of these ^ quotes prove or even indicate Hosko had LE or FBI inside info re this case?

The above -
- applies gen'l investigative procedure (DDW's DNA at home, JW delivering $ to home, concluding LE trying to connect DDW & JW).
- discusses LE forensic tools (analyze recording of call, see if there are noises spiking up in the background).
- borders on pop psych re perp's actions (son was used to make parents complaint, concluding sadistic killer).
- is not surprising to ppl who have watched a season of Law & Order (DNA on pizza crust, concluding it's pivotal evd).
- is just plain old common sense, even for ppl who have not watched L & O or equiv (Mr S calling FG's husband in a.m., concluding Mr S was still alive then).
- restates publicly disclosed info (DNA found on pizza crust).
IOW, other ppl w some familiarity w LE procedure, pop psych c/h/made the same stmts.

Not denigrating Hosko's stmts, or his experience or expertise.Other interviews may contain stmts in which he says he has the inside scoop (have not seen any, could have missed). Should his opinion, combined w time that has elapsed w no arrests, be seen as a reliable sign that LE completed investigation and JW will not be arrested?
JM2cts, could be all wrong.
:deadhorse:

^ Not quite yet, but horse may have to be admitted to ICU.

 

[facundo]

That's what I am thinking, too, along with trying to get rid of the DNA. However, seems a little counterintuitive to torch it, since that would draw immediate attention. Especially near to where he lived.

Just like the house, DW was destroying any evidence. By then his prints were all over that car.

 

[facundo]

I have a vague recollection of something in the search warrants implying that LE was looking for a police scanner; I'll have to go back and look. If the perps were monitoring police transmissions, that would be a good reason to torch the car ASAP, especially if person 1 (not the driver) called to let person 2 (the driver) know that they just heard a transmission about a sighting near Latham. Otherwise, I agree it's pretty counter-intuitive -- why not send up a flare? Seems like it would be better/more discreet to roll it into a body of water, but then again, maybe a body of water wasn't immediately available.

Now that you mention his options. DW could have planned to torch it all along. Otherwise where did he get the accelerant to torch the car? There is a large body of water nearby - the Potomac river. Not convenient to make a quick getaway from there.
He probably picked the church parking lot because he was familiar with the area, a stupid mistake that many perps commit.

 

[kammiemc]

sbm

Thanks, rkf, for ferreting out all the above and quoting MSM and Hosko.

Interesting in light of Hosko's earlier question - is the evd there?
Do any of these ^ quotes prove or even indicate Hosko had LE or FBI inside info re this case?

The above -
- applies gen'l investigative procedure (DDW's DNA at home, JW delivering $ to home, concluding LE trying to connect DDW & JW).
- discusses LE forensic tools (analyze recording of call, see if there are noises spiking up in the background).
- borders on pop psych re perp's actions (son was used to make parents complaint, concluding sadistic killer).
- is not surprising to ppl who have watched a season of Law & Order (DNA on pizza crust, concluding it's pivotal evd).
- is just plain old common sense, even for ppl who have not watched L & O or equiv (Mr S calling FG's husband in a.m., concluding Mr S was still alive then).
- restates publicly disclosed info (DNA found on pizza crust).
IOW, other ppl w some familiarity w LE procedure, pop psych c/h/made the same stmts.

Not denigrating Hosko's stmts, or his experience or expertise.Other interviews may contain stmts in which he says he has the inside scoop (have not seen any, could have missed). Should his opinion, combined w time that has elapsed w no arrests, be seen as a reliable sign that LE completed investigation and JW will not be arrested?
JM2cts, could be all wrong.
:deadhorse:

^ Not quite yet, but horse may have to be admitted to ICU.

My answer to that question is no. While it is perfectly reasonable to question whether LE is investigating evidence that might incriminate others beyond Wint, it seems unreasonable to think anyone but LE could accurately answer that question. (In fact, he wasn't confident enough about it as to answer it.)

LE has someone behind bars who they said they are investigating. They don't need to rush to arrest him for this case. Does that mean they never will? No

There are also other people whose DNA would be found all over cars and other things because of his job. And it was also his job to communicate and do errands for SS, so unless that person was hands on in the murders, any other involvement of that person in the planning might be complicated to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, sans a confession or lie detector test, or info from DW and Co, but even those things aren't bullet proof.

There is another case I am following where LE basically knew within 24 hours who was involved and yet there have been no arrests. It has only been two weeks, but two weeks is long enough to arrest someone you know murdered someone. Yet they haven't. So shall I assume it is a fact that there will be no arrests? What about after 3 or 4 weeks? What about after 8? When do I personally decide that the investigation is closed and there will be no arrests?


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[rkf]

Porsche was an automatic. I wonder if DW, as much as he loved fancy cars, could drive a stick!

Does anyone know if the porsche was likely to be the outermost car in the cluster of cars in the driveway? Was it the one SS drove? I found an electronic bulletin board post of his from long ago saying that he wanted to buy a new porsche because his wife was refusing to drive the old one because of some annoying problem with it. Or would that have been the one that SS drove home in when AS called him? Just wondering if there was a reason that car was chosen to drive away in (e.g., did it have an automatic transmission whereas some of the others had manual transmissions? DW liked it? It was the one at the end of the driveway? It was the one that had easy-to-find keys?).

 

[FelicityLemon]

Does anyone know if the porsche was likely to be the outermost car in the cluster of cars in the driveway? Was it the one SS drove? I found an electronic bulletin board post of his from long ago saying that he wanted to buy a new porsche because his wife was refusing to drive the old one because of some annoying problem with it. Or would that have been the one that SS drove home in when AS called him? Just wondering if there was a reason that car was chosen to drive away in (e.g., did it have an automatic transmission whereas some of the others had manual transmissions? DW liked it? It was the one at the end of the driveway? It was the one that had easy-to-find keys?).

MSM sources all over the place, I don't know if it'd been verified, just reported.

 

[al66pine]

After the crime and torching of the house local TV and radio stations were broadcasting news about the crime and DCMP bulletin requesting anyone who may have seen the Porsche to call the Tip Line. As anyone driving in DC, Wint probably heard it on the radio and realized that people were going to be on the lookout for the car he was driving.

Thanks for this other ^ alternative, which would have put driver under more pressure to do sommmmmething in a hurry. More so than ideas in my post.

 

[Peliman]

My answer to that question is no. While it is perfectly reasonable to question whether LE is investigating evidence that might incriminate others beyond Wint, it seems unreasonable to think anyone but LE could accurately answer that question. (In fact, he wasn't confident enough about it as to answer it.)

LE has someone behind bars who they said they are investigating. They don't need to rush to arrest him for this case. Does that mean they never will? No

There are also other people whose DNA would be found all over cars and other things because of his job. And it was also his job to communicate and do errands for SS, so unless that person was hands on in the murders, any other involvement of that person in the planning might be complicated to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, sans a confession or lie detector test, or info from DW and Co, but even those things aren't bullet proof.

There is another case I am following where LE basically knew within 24 hours who was involved and yet there have been no arrests. It has only been two weeks, but two weeks is long enough to arrest someone you know murdered someone. Yet they haven't. So shall I assume it is a fact that there will be no arrests? What about after 3 or 4 weeks? What about after 8? When do I personally decide that the investigation is closed and there will be no arrests?


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I've seen cases last years before an arrest was made and I'm still waiting for others. It all depends on the district attorney when someone is charged.

It's one thing to charge someone, it's another to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt. District attorneys will tell you, you get one bite at the apple so the case better be solid. Can you prove it or is the case circumstantial? They don't charge someone on a hunch. Charging someone starts the clock ticking especially if they request a speedy trial.

A hair match or eye-witness can be disputed by a good attorney. Lie detectors are not admissible. If and when a district attorney feels they have enough evidence they will charge someone. If not enough direct evidence exist, they won't charge.

Has a body been recovered? What condition is it in etc etc. In other words cases are different, one maybe a quick arrest, another may take years or not until they have enough evidence. On a rare occasion a trial maybe conducted on circumstantial evidence but that's rare. I've learned I can hold my breath a LONG time. MOO

 

[Russian Blue]

Wonder where they went? :thinking: AWOL?

Well we don't know if LE has not further interrogated every single person that was with SW the night of his arrest. I bet they have and I bet they are watching them. I think the lack of news on any of them is telling in itself.

 

[kammiemc]

I've seen cases last years before an arrest was made and I'm still waiting for others. It all depends on the district attorney when someone is charged.

It's one thing to charge someone, it's another to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt. District attorneys will tell you, you get one bite at the apple so the case better be solid. Can you prove it or is the case circumstantial? They don't charge someone on a hunch. Charging someone starts the clock ticking especially if they request a speedy trial.

A hair match or eye-witness can be disputed by a good attorney. Lie detectors are not admissible. If and when a district attorney feels they have enough evidence they will charge someone. If not enough direct evidence exist, they won't charge.

Has a body been recovered? What condition is it in etc etc. In other words cases are different, one maybe a quick arrest, another may take years or not until they have enough evidence. On a rare occasion a trial maybe conducted on circumstantial evidence but that's rare. I've learned I can hold my breath a LONG time. MOO

This is helpful! Thx! And in this other case, it sounds like it is complex and possibly involving more than one person. Will be interesting to see if they do one mass arrest or if the arrests (that we know of) come at different times.


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