DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[al66pine]

Reasonable doubt.

Agreeing w you ^. Yes, my ex. re Mr S inviting DDW to attend auction (imagination going overboard & overtime) was beyond any doubt I could find reasonable.

Azz-uming JW merely complied w Mr S's request to pick up & deliver $ and testifies to that effect, there's room for def. to question credibility and claim no delivery of ransom $. If jury were to buy it, fortunately there was still $$$ & m/o's in convoy, suggesting ransom was paid, and that $ came from ransom (not DDW's piggy bank or convoy member's lottery tix).

IIUC statute does not require ransom payment, as an element of crime, just requires that in confining Mr S, that DDW
had "intent to hold or detain such individual for ransom or reward or otherwise."

What a tragedy.

 

[BondGirl]

Someone posted in a previous thread about what if DW carjacked Amy and got into the house that way. Remember Porsche seen driving fast and erratically through neighborhood that Wednesday. What if what @rkf said about the Beltsville address was true and DW was supposed just carjack the Porsche and then he went off script?

 

[rkf]

Someone posted in a previous thread about what if DW carjacked Amy and got into the house that way. Remember Porsche seen driving fast and erratically through neighborhood that Wednesday. What if what @rkf said about the Beltsville address was true and DW was supposed just carjack the Porsche and then he went off script?

As in showed up to steal the Porsche, but then saw the big house. I can definitely see that.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

There are other felonies that make it felony murder, including arson. Also, DW took the car, assuming they can prove that with W3 and DNA on vest (if that was his reward). It doesn't matter what he did with it after he took it.

You are absolutely correct. The complaint can be amended to change the felony, add a new felony, add victims, etc. The charge can also be amended to "plain old murder" instead of felony murder with the District having to prove intent, malice aforethought, depraved indifference - whatever the statute requires for a charge of murder 1.

Interesting question you raise about arson. I am not sure about arson, because I believe felony murder requires that the victim died as a result of the violent felony. I thought the standard was that the death had to be a forseeable result of the felony. If someone were dead before the fire started I am not sure that meets the standard, but I honestly do not know the answer to that. Trust me, I could be absolutely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time today and it isn't even 8:30 am, LOL.

Please do not think I buy the defense arguments for a second (you can't prove he was in the car, he didn't really get the money because JW took it, the money belonged to some other dude, etc.). Neither did the judge. I was just pointing out where I think defense was going, and why they are so keen on making JW an issue - to cast reasonable doubt on DW's participation in the underlying felony, whatever that felony turns out to be.

 

[BellaVita]

You are absolutely correct. The complaint can be amended to change the felony, add a new felony, add victims, etc. The charge can also be amended to "plain old murder" instead of felony murder with the District having to prove intent, malice aforethought, depraved indifference - whatever the statute requires for a charge of murder 1.

Interesting question you raise about arson. I am not sure about arson, because I believe felony murder requires that the victim died as a result of the violent felony. I thought the standard was that the death had to be a forseeable result of the felony. If someone were dead before the fire started I am not sure that meets the standard, but I honestly do not know the answer to that. Trust me, I could be absolutely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time today and it isn't even 8:30 am, LOL.

Please do not think I buy the defense arguments for a second (you can't prove he was in the car, he didn't really get the money because JW took it, the money belonged to some other dude, etc.). Neither did the judge. I was just pointing out where I think defense was going, and why they are so keen on making JW an issue - to cast reasonable doubt on DW's participation in the underlying felony, whatever that felony turns out to be.

BBM: PS wasn't dead before the fire started.

 

[TexMex]

BBM: PS wasn't dead before the fire started.

VF was given CPR at the scene but died at the hospital as well

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

BBM: PS wasn't dead before the fire started.

Correct. But DW hasn't been charged with the death of PS (yet). As far as I know, DW has been charged only with the death of SS. That is really all I was speaking to - the charges as they currently stand and why the defense argued what they did. I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

ETA: with all the different things going on, and the number of bad acts I believe DW committed, I wonder how/why this was the first charge. Why against SS only? Why that felony? I am not a criminal lawyer or even a trial lawyer so charging, and the timing of charges, and the picking and choosing of charges, is fascinating to me.

 

[kammiemc]

Someone posted in a previous thread about what if DW carjacked Amy and got into the house that way. Remember Porsche seen driving fast and erratically through neighborhood that Wednesday. What if what @rkf said about the Beltsville address was true and DW was supposed just carjack the Porsche and then he went off script?

What about a Beltsville address? I missed something!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jjenny]

BBM: PS wasn't dead before the fire started.

Yes, he died as a result of the arson.

 

[jjenny]

Correct. But DW hasn't been charged with the death of PS (yet). As far as I know, DW has been charged only with the death of SS. That is really all I was speaking to - the charges as they currently stand and why the defense argued what they did. I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

ETA: with all the different things going on, and the number of bad acts I believe DW committed, I wonder how/why this was the first charge. Why against SS only? Why that felony? I am not a criminal lawyer or even a trial lawyer so charging, and the timing of charges, and the picking and choosing of charges, is fascinating to me.

In murder trials, when there are multiple victims, prosecutors can charge with one victim at a time. In case something goes wrong with the trial, they can charge the suspect again for another victim. For instance, Darlie Routier went on trial for only one son (even though both were killed).

 

[jjenny]

Haha point taken, I hope they're doing mitochondrial DNA.

Why? Mitochondrial DNA is less accurate than nuclear DNA. If they got nuclear DNA off the pizza, it's not likely they will do mitochondrial DNA tests.

 

[CoreyRocks]

But if we could hear PS screaming, doesn't that mean he had to be in the same room as his dad when the call was made?

I thought he was screaming ' NO SHE'S NOT' because SS was saying on the phone: Amy is sick and needs to rest [ or something like that]

PS is saying "No she isn't " and you are right it is at the point where SS says Amy is sick in bed.

Someone had said there was a jack-and-jill bathroom between the two bedrooms. PS room was to the left of the front door. The adults were in the room to the right were they believe the baseball bat came from that closet. IMO I think both bedrooms were PS'S and the right one being a guest room, game room, sports....etc (just my opinionl).

However the floor plans shown on 20/20 did not show the bathroom adjoining both bedrooms. It looked like a closet or hall connected the rooms. A couple walkway/space that did not go out in the hall. I will try and find a still of the Floorplan and post it after this. Hard to explain but easier to visualize.

I would think one could hear what was going on in each room rim the other room. They may have even more remodeled since these plans so the bathroom was open to both rooms. Just guessing. Either way the bathroom window would be over the front door, for reference.

I think DW was the only perp, if all were restrained as reported he could easily

 

[CoreyRocks]

But if we could hear PS screaming, doesn't that mean he had to be in the same room as his dad when the call was made?

I thought he was screaming ' NO SHE'S NOT' because SS was saying on the phone: Amy is sick and needs to rest [ or something like that]

PS is saying "No she isn't " and you are right it is at the point where SS says Amy is sick in bed.

Someone had said there was a jack-and-jill bathroom between the two bedrooms. PS room was to the left of the front door. The adults were in the room to the right where they believe the baseball bat came from that closet. IMO I think both bedrooms were PS'S and the right one being a guest room, game room, sports....etc (just my opinionl).

However the floor plans shown on 20/20 did not show the bathroom adjoining both bedrooms. It looked like a closet or hall connected the rooms. A walkway/space that did not go out into the main hall. I will try and find a still of the Floorplan and post it after this. Hard to explain but easier to visualize.

I would think one could hear what was going on in each room from the other room. They may have even been remodeled, since these plans, so the bathroom was open to both rooms. Just guessing. Either way the bathroom window would be over the front door, for reference.

I think DW was the only perp, if all were restrained as reported DW could easily move between both rooms.

I am sorry I cannot get the Floorplan to attach or link. It was on 20/20 if you are able to search. Someone posted it on a way earlier thread. Thanks.

 

[jggordo]

Correct. But DW hasn't been charged with the death of PS (yet). As far as I know, DW has been charged only with the death of SS. That is really all I was speaking to - the charges as they currently stand and why the defense argued what they did. I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

ETA: with all the different things going on, and the number of bad acts I believe DW committed, I wonder how/why this was the first charge. Why against SS only? Why that felony? I am not a criminal lawyer or even a trial lawyer so charging, and the timing of charges, and the picking and choosing of charges, is fascinating to me.

I believe only charges and evidence of one murdered was introduced in order for DW to be held without bail until trial. The rest will be presented to the GJ, IMO. That evidence will be secret and not in public view until actual trial. Other charges will be brought by GJ, including arson and kidnapping across the board.
I also believe the evidence and facts of this case are so horrific that the longer that the family does not have to
see it or hear it the better.


JMO's

 

[atthelake]

Just now getting to read the wonderful hearing transcript as was too difficult to view on the phone previously!

:tyou: :tyou: :tyou:

I wonder if others on the net have done copies of it, and if that is ok with the OP? In future, how do you protect from such? Watermark?

I'm :escape: off to read it on the computer!

 

[Skigirl]

Just now getting to read the wonderful hearing transcript as was too difficult to view on the phone previously!

:tyou: :tyou: :tyou:

I wonder if others on the net have done copies of it, and if that is ok with the OP? In future, how do you protect from such? Watermark?

I'm :escape: off to read it on the computer!

OP gave me permission to distribute; I think it's OK with her.

 

[atthelake]

OP gave me permission to distribute; I think it's OK with her.

((skigirl and OP))) Not meaning to say anything about those that helped OP distribute, just that OP gets recognition as it may be carried all over the net and OP deserves the recognition and a big :tyou: (as do you here for helping to post here at WS)

:blowkiss: to folks helping to obtain and share it with everyone!

 

[FelicityLemon]

BBM: PS wasn't dead before the fire started.

Veralicia was still alive, too.

 

[FelicityLemon]

They may have eaten it outside, since that's where it was found in the trash. Also, as for the photos, I believe that the crime scene photos are taken as soon as possible after it's declared a crime scene. LE wouldn't even let the ME in to take her own photos for at least a day. Once the crime scene photos are taken, they have documented what was where to the best of their ability, which then allows other investigators to come in to do their jobs. I would hope they wouldn't eat pizza in the crime scene, even after it's documented. That would be crazy! But any photos taken after the official crime scene photos can't be used to document where things were, etc., because there's a chance an item was moved during the investigation. Some movement of evidence can obviously take place when they're fighting a fire, but they try to freeze the scene as early as possible through photos. At least that's the way I understand it.

The problem with Ago and his pizza photo is that he was trying to use it to show the pizza with DW's DNA on it was found outside in the trash. If there was pizza in the outside trash in the crime scene photos, he would have had something. Since it was taken by the ME after the scene was open to others, it didn't/couldn't mean what he wanted it to. Pretty sneaky...

omg, could it be that DW was so ********* that he was casually eating a slice on his way downstairs and out, stopped by the trash to pop a crust in there?

Sneaky lawyer not good.

 

[atthelake]

Reading the hearing right now... and oh my. It is stated AGAIN about the partial match on the DNA. :thinking: a "partial match" infers it is matching something else :doh: therefore...

I'm thinking it's a mitochondrial match perhaps. (The DNA of the mother) Part of one of the DNA is matching........ I'll :lala: for now as is against TOS to go further.

Here is just one site on cases with "partial DNA matches" -- think "familial" :moo: http://www.denverda.org/DNA/DNA_Partial_Match_DNA_Cases.htm

lol, I'm days behind in reading as all this may have been discussed upthread. I'm only 73 pages into the hearing so far.

:researching: