DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[Sillybilly]

There was a previous reminder about food talk in this thread. Seriously folks, you want to discuss food and recipes, please take it to a more appropriate forum.

:tyou:

 

[SeesSeas]

Hopefully JW is talking to LE and telling them everything he knows. He obviously held back at first--not offering the info to LE about the $$ drop off the morning of the fires but instead just asking to get his car out, and not sharing all the info he had in the interview--but I am sure we will learn more about the facts that he has shared through discovery. We really didn't learn anything new at all in the PH except that others DID place JW at the dojo at the time of the fire. The bench convo was interesting in that Bach did NOT want Ago fishing to find out exactly how JW's whereabouts were corroborated. (In the end, we learned that verification was through JW's own accounts and cell phone pings that aligned.) That red bag remains as elusive as ever!

I don't think JW held back at all. Here is PH page 18/19:
Q And so when W-1 identified himself to the police he said that's my car, words to the effect of that's my car, I want my car back?
A I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back.
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.
Q At that moment?
A Yeah.
Q And did the police speak with W-1 on the scene other than that brief conversation that you just described?
A Other than learning who he was and identifying him, giving him to a detective for a more formal interview, no, not beyond that, no.
Q At that moment when you gave him -- when the police gave him to a detective for a more formal interview, do you know who that detective was?
A Yeah.
Q Who was it?
A Detective Todd Williams.

 

[SeesSeas]

Yeah that's true. A few new things. Sounds like he was seen at the dojo in the afternoon and was told about the fire there. (I wonder why that wasn't in the affidavit. LE would have known that by then. It's almost as if they were picking and choosing info to include that would make him look suspicious, whereas being seen at the dojo at that time bodes well for him--better than even pings, which are approximate..) And we know he isn't under arrest. On the not so great side, a lot of us were assuming he presented himself to LE upon hearing about the fire to share his account of dropping off the money. It is disappointing (in a mind-boggling sense--not an incriminating sense) to know he was just trying to get his car and get out of dodge. Humans are a fascinating bunch. IMO.

I don't think JW was "just trying to get his car and get out of dodge."

Here is PH page 18/19:
Q And so when W-1 identified himself to the police he said that's my car, words to the effect of that's my car, I want my car back?
A I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back.
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.
Q At that moment?
A Yeah.​

 

[kammiemc]

I don't think JW held back at all. Here is PH page 18/19:
Q And so when W-1 identified himself to the police he said that's my car, words to the effect of that's my car, I want my car back?
A I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back.
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.
Q At that moment?
A Yeah.
Q And did the police speak with W-1 on the scene other than that brief conversation that you just described?
A Other than learning who he was and identifying him, giving him to a detective for a more formal interview, no, not beyond that, no.
Q At that moment when you gave him -- when the police gave him to a detective for a more formal interview, do you know who that detective was?
A Yeah.
Q Who was it?
A Detective Todd Williams.

What I mean is that he did not go find LE to report the very strange request he fulfilled earlier in the day, which was to deliver $40k to a car in the house that burned--the same one from which bodies were being taken out on gurneys. He didn't go up and say, "Hi, I'm JW, and I think I might have some information that you might care about." He just went up and wanted his car out from behind the tape. I'm not saying he lied about his name or his relation to SS. But LE were the ones who had to initiate a conversation about the strange events of the day, not vice versa.

Anyway, LE thought JW had more information than he was giving them, as Owens said in the PH. And, indeed, he had not given up all the facts at first, as reported in the affidavit. Owens called those "lies" in the affidavit. But one level down from a lie (a gentler, less accusatory description) would be to say that JW not being totally forthcoming in the beginning--or holding back. That could be all he's guilty of, and I'm sure he has his reasons why he acted that way, or just wasn't thinking, or whatever. But...unless Owens lied in the affidavit and in the PH (which I don't believe) I think it's fair to say JW held back in the beginning. That's kind of why he's in the position he is right now.

 

[corundogs]

What I mean is that he did not go find LE to report the very strange request he fulfilled earlier in the day, which was to deliver $40k to a car in the house that burned--the same one from which bodies were being taken out on gurneys. He didn't go up and say, "Hi, I'm JW, and I think I might have some information that you might care about." He just went up and wanted his car out from behind the tape. I'm not saying he lied about his name or his relation to SS. But LE were the ones who had to initiate a conversation about the strange events of the day, not vice versa.

Anyway, LE thought JW had more information than he was giving them, as Owens said in the PH. And, indeed, he had not given up all the facts at first, as reported in the affidavit. Owens called those "lies" in the affidavit. But one level down from a lie (a gentler, less accusatory description) would be to say that JW not being totally forthcoming in the beginning--or holding back. That could be all he's guilty of, and I'm sure he has his reasons why he acted that way, or just wasn't thinking, or whatever. But...unless Owens lied in the affidavit and in the PH (which I don't believe) I think it's fair to say JW held back in the beginning. That's kind of why he's in the position he is right now.

OR...JW didn't think it was a very strange request at the time. How could he know that, if he hadn't been working for SS for very long? If the accountant didn't make him feel it was "very strange", then why would he assume it was? He actually thought that SS went to an equipment auction. Why would he think differently? And that could explain his call to AS, who he wasn't sure if she was home or not - and why he would think that SS wasn't.

You know, just an alternate theory and all.

 

[SeesSeas]

What I mean is that he did not go find LE to report the very strange request he fulfilled earlier in the day, which was to deliver $40k to a car in the house that burned--the same one from which bodies were being taken out on gurneys. He didn't go up and say, "Hi, I'm JW, and I think I might have some information that you might care about." He just went up and wanted his car out from behind the tape. I'm not saying he lied about his name or his relation to SS. But LE were the ones who had to initiate a conversation about the strange events of the day, not vice versa.

Anyway, LE thought JW had more information than he was giving them, as Owens said in the PH. And, indeed, he had not given up all the facts at first, as reported in the affidavit. Owens called those "lies" in the affidavit. But one level down from a lie (a gentler, less accusatory description) would be to say that JW not being totally forthcoming in the beginning--or holding back. That could be all he's guilty of, and I'm sure he has his reasons why he acted that way, or just wasn't thinking, or whatever. But...unless Owens lied in the affidavit and in the PH (which I don't believe) I think it's fair to say JW held back in the beginning. That's kind of why he's in the position he is right now.

I think LE mischaracterized JW, which unfortunately led to much of the suspicion about JW. But, without hearing the interviews, none of us know. In the PH, Owens admitted that he never even interviewed JW and that he never reviewed the taped recording of JW's interview.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't think JW was "just trying to get his car and get out of dodge."

Here is PH page 18/19:
Q And so when W-1 identified himself to the police he said that's my car, words to the effect of that's my car, I want my car back?
A I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back.
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.
Q At that moment?
A Yeah.​

"I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back."

Unless I am misinterpreting the request, I think he wanted his car back so that he could drive it away, not so that he could stay and have a conversation about the information he had about the day. It doesn't sound like he was hanging around. He left and came back for his car. I am not getting the impression he wanted to hang out. He got out of dodge and he wanted to get his car out of dodge. IMO.

 

[SeesSeas]

"I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back."

Unless I am misinterpreting the request, I think he wanted his car back so that he could drive it away, not so that he could stay and have a conversation about the information he had about the day. It doesn't sound like he was hanging around. He left and came back for his car. I am not getting the impression he wanted to hang out. He got out of dodge and he wanted to get his car out of dodge. IMO.

That's why the rest of the questioning is important:

Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.
Q At that moment?
A Yeah.




​

 

[corundogs]

"I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back."

Unless I am misinterpreting the request, I think he wanted his car back so that he could drive it away, not so that he could stay and have a conversation about the information he had about the day. It doesn't sound like he was hanging around. He left and came back for his car. I am not getting the impression he wanted to hang out. He got out of dodge and he wanted to get his car out of dodge. IMO.

So...you expected him to just hang around and watch? What was he supposed to be doing? Why wouldn't he want his car back? I am really confused about this "get out of dodge" thing. You seem to be implying he was going to flee. Since "get out of dodge" is a euphemism for flee.

Why is it you think he was trying to flee? What evidence do you have of that?

 

[kammiemc]

I think LE mischaracterized JW, which unfortunately led to much of the suspicion about JW. But, without hearing the interviews, none of us know. In the PH, Owens admitted that he never even interviewed JW and that he never reviewed the taped recording of JW's interview.

Yeah, I don't get how or why he would write that without reviewing the video unless he has implicit trust in his detectives and believes they have infallible instincts or something. It seems irresponsible, and if it's not true, it makes me wonder how we can trust everything else he said regarding his team's interpretation of what JW said/did, for better or worse.

 

[kammiemc]

So...you expected him to just hang around and watch? What was he supposed to be doing? Why wouldn't he want his car back? I am really confused about this "get out of dodge" thing. You seem to be implying he was going to flee. Since "get out of dodge" is a euphemism for flee.

Why is it you think he was trying to flee? What evidence do you have of that?

As some other supporters of JW surmised, I, too, would have thought that he had gone to the scene and self-initiate a report to LE of the info he had. I don't know why he didn't and I don't really care that much why. He felt scared, worried whatever. But he didn't. That is a fact. Instead he asked for his car back, so that he could (assumption here, but not a crazy one) leave! In my opinion, I am thinking that behavior is consistent with someone who wants away from the situation. A phrase I use to describe when people (including myself) want away from a place or situation is to say "get out of dodge".

It is 100% okay, cool, kosher if it's someone else's impression based on what we know that JW was actually intent on tracking down LE to share his full story and was forthcoming with all the facts truthfully in the beginning. That's just not my impression. It's natural that people might interpret what Owens said in the doc and in the PH differently.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Wait, are we talking about DW or JW? It's DW who (if his last lawyer was expressing DW's thoughts accurately) said he was set up for the murders. JW is not being framed by anyone. The defense lawyer just went over what was in the affidavit and asked questions like whether LE could verify that JW got instructions to drop off the $$ in the car or that it was simply JW's story, etc. Pretty benign stuff since, like Bach said, it really doesn't matter. JW's involvement or lack thereof doesn't make a smidge of difference in DW's case. I'm not sure why Ago is even bothering to discredit him, except maybe to try to get rid of the felony part of the charge.

Hopefully JW is talking to LE and telling them everything he knows. He obviously held back at first--not offering the info to LE about the $$ drop off the morning of the fires but instead just asking to get his car out, and not sharing all the info he had in the interview--but I am sure we will learn more about the facts that he has shared through discovery. We really didn't learn anything new at all in the PH except that others DID place JW at the dojo at the time of the fire. The bench convo was interesting in that Bach did NOT want Ago fishing to find out exactly how JW's whereabouts were corroborated. (In the end, we learned that verification was through JW's own accounts and cell phone pings that aligned.) That red bag remains as elusive as ever!

bbm

ddsmiley: Now kammicmc, you (and everybody else, lol) know what a supporter of JW I am. :bombshell: I agree with you on this because as I read the transcript that part specifically stood out to me. I was disheartened. Of course, I'd like to think that he went to the least busy officer at the scene to say that he worked for SS and made a delivery there this morning. I'd be happy to come and be interviewed, but can I take my car, please? But, I kinda think my way didn't happen. :/

It has me wondering if he thought he'd just quietly get in his car, scoot on home, have a nervous breakdown and call his Dad or Mom to ask advice about what to do. I suspect that's exactly what he thought had he not been trapped behind the line. But, with his car behind the tape, he then had no choice but to explain why he was there.

ETA: My suggesting he might call his parents it not a slam in any way. I'm projecting because that's exactly what I would do. Especially if my parents had procedural knowledge. In fact, I might even call my parent/s while at the scene as soon as I knew that there were fatalities there.

 

[kammiemc]

bbm

ddsmiley: Now kammicmc, you (and everybody else, lol) know what a supporter of JW I am. :bombshell: I agree with you on this because as I read the transcript that part specifically stood out to me. I was disheartened. Of course, I'd like to think that he went to the least busy officer at the scene to say that he worked for SS and made a delivery there this morning. I'd be happy to come and be interviewed, but can I take my car, please? But, I kinda think my way didn't happen. :/

It has me wondering if he thought he'd just quietly get in his car, scoot on home, have a nervous breakdown and call his Dad or Mom to ask advice about what to do. I suspect that's exactly what he thought had he not been trapped behind the line. But, with his car behind the tape, he then had no choice but to explain why he was there.

Totally. He might have wanted to regroup. Maybe he thought he was going to pinned for involvement. Maybe he was exhausted and couldn't think straight. For whatever reason, he didn't do what we would hope he would do. It's kind of a bummer, that's all. IMO. IMO. IMO

 

[corundogs]

As some other supporters of JW surmised, I, too, would have thought that he had gone to the scene and self-initiate a report to LE of the info he had. I don't know why he didn't and I don't really care that much why. He felt scared, worried whatever. But he didn't. That is a fact. Instead he asked for his car back, so that he could (assumption here, but not a crazy one) leave! In my opinion, I am thinking that behavior is consistent with someone who wants away from the situation. A phrase I use to describe when people (including myself) want away from a place or situation is to say "get out of dodge". It's fine that you feel otherwise.

It doesn't trouble me in any way if it's your impression based on what we know that JW was actually intent on tracking down LE to share his full story and was forthcoming with all the facts truthfully in the beginning. That's just not my impression. It really doesn't matter if people interpret what Owens said in the doc and in the PH differently.

I don't think that JW thought that his delivery to the home had anything to do with the fire and bodies found inside. Why would he connect the two? So no, I don't think that JW would have felt the need to go to a cop and say "take me down to the station so I can fill you in on my employment with this family".

It's safe to say he thought they were busy with other things.

You still want to vilify this man who after almost 3 months still has no further involvement in this case. He been called a witness under oath. I happen to believe LE, especially in a high profile city like DC, in a high profile case have actually done their jobs. You seem to think differently. This isn't some backwater town where LEO aren't used to dealing with murder, etc. (No offense to backwater towns, since I live in one!)

 

[kammiemc]

OR...JW didn't think it was a very strange request at the time. How could he know that, if he hadn't been working for SS for very long? If the accountant didn't make him feel it was "very strange", then why would he assume it was? He actually thought that SS went to an equipment auction. Why would he think differently? And that could explain his call to AS, who he wasn't sure if she was home or not - and why he would think that SS wasn't.

You know, just an alternate theory and all.

Unless he is mentally incapacitated (and I don't get that impression) I would think that upon seeing bodies on gurneys being taken out of the house to which he delivered $40k to the seat of a car just hours before, he would suddenly think twice about that request and at least speculate that the request might have been fishy, no? Anyway, we DO know he thought it was a crazy weird request because he texted his girlfriend that sentiment. IMO.

 

[BondGirl]

So...you expected him to just hang around and watch? What was he supposed to be doing? Why wouldn't he want his car back? I am really confused about this "get out of dodge" thing. You seem to be implying he was going to flee. Since "get out of dodge" is a euphemism for flee.

Why is it you think he was trying to flee? What evidence do you have of that?

Why park at all if he wasn't going to introduce himself, ask about the family and tell them as much as he knew?? And then why leave without his car?? Odd.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't think that JW thought that his delivery to the home had anything to do with the fire and bodies found inside. Why would he connect the two? So no, I don't think that JW would have felt the need to go to a cop and say "take me down to the station so I can fill you in on my employment with this family".

It's safe to say he thought they were busy with other things.

You still want to vilify this man who after almost 3 months still has no further involvement in this case. He been called a witness under oath. I happen to believe LE, especially in a high profile city like DC, in a high profile case have actually done their jobs. You seem to think differently. This isn't some backwater town where LEO aren't used to dealing with murder, etc. (No offense to backwater towns, since I live in one!)

Yes, I do. I'm an evil vilifier. (Come on, all I said is that he wanted away from the scene--to "get out of dodge". Sheesh!) I don't think we are supposed to personalize, right? Speak to the post, not the poster. At least, I try to abide by that. I think I'll get out of dodge myself--time to leave work!

 

[corundogs]

Unless he is mentally incapacitated (and I don't get that impression) I would think that upon seeing bodies on gurneys being taken out of the house to which he delivered $40k to the seat of a car just hours before, he would suddenly think twice about that request and at least speculate that the request might have been fishy, no? Anyway, we DO know he thought it was a crazy weird request because he texted his girlfriend that sentiment. IMO.

Yes, he texted his girlfriend because he had $40K in his hands. He also texted her it was for the auction. It was "crazy weird" to have that much cash in his hands. It wasn't his. I would be freaking out too! Maybe you are used to handling cash amounts like that. 99% of the population is NOT!!!!

And of course, all of the people that SS spoke to didn't raise any red flags by the "crazy weird" request, why would JW assume it was? JW had been around in this circle for 6 weeks (or whatever). He would have no idea how things work around this family. He just knows what he was asked to do, and he did it.

Because you know, houses catch on fire and people die in them. Everyday. While others go about their daily lives, not assuming that someone has murdered the 4 people in the house and set it on fire.

You and I and everyone else have the benefit of hindsight. And a good portion of the puzzle. At the time, JW did not. He did his job, and his employer's house caught on fire and someone was removed from the home. That is all he knew, at the time.

 

[kammiemc]

Yes, he texted his girlfriend because he had $40K in his hands. He also texted her it was for the auction. It was "crazy weird" to have that much cash in his hands. It wasn't his. I would be freaking out too! Maybe you are used to handling cash amounts like that. 99% of the population is NOT!!!!

And of course, all of the people that SS spoke to didn't raise any red flags by the "crazy weird" request, why would JW assume it was? JW had been around in this circle for 6 weeks (or whatever). He would have no idea how things work around this family. He just knows what he was asked to do, and he did it.

Because you know, houses catch on fire and people die in them. Everyday. While others go about their daily lives, not assuming that someone has murdered the 4 people in the house and set it on fire.

You and I and everyone else have the benefit of hindsight. And a good portion of the puzzle. At the time, JW did not. He did his job, and his employer's house caught on fire and someone was removed from the home. That is all he knew, at the time.

This post seems to be aligning with my post that JW thought the request was not business as usual. At least in JW's short time working for SS. Is this post also saying that the house fire and deaths wouldn't stir up questions or rouse suspicion because that situation is so common? It might be from a worldwide statistics perspective, but from a personal standpoint, it seems it might make an assistant stop and pause. I would like to give JW a little credit that he could think on that level. Even though I am a vilifier (and a rich one, apparently!) . Muwhahaha! (evil laugh)

 

[corundogs]

This post seems to be aligning with my post that JW thought the request was not business as usual. At least in JW's short time working for SS. Is this post also saying that the house fire and deaths wouldn't stir up questions or rouse suspicion because that situation is so common? It might be from a worldwide statistics perspective, but from a personal standpoint, it seems it might make an assistant stop and pause. I would like to give JW a little credit that he could think on that level. Even though I am a vilifier (and a rich one, apparently!) . Muwhahaha! (evil laugh)

Nope. Not what I am saying at all.