Dead Pets

[Rail_Tracer]

I am so "frushtrated". I'm out of the country and can't get a single video to play properly. I've read through this entire thread but still can't get an overall impression as to what the "pet" testimony is really all about. How many pets died? Why did the family wrap them in blankets and plastic bags to bury them? Is that somehow the ok thing to do? Who lead this line of questioning and for what purpose? Can someone please, please, please recap?

I don't know why the pets would be wrapped in plastic (?) or be taped together in any way, but this is my best guess...

If I recall correctly, the first pets the A's buried died at the vet's office. Perhaps that's how the vet's office prepared the bodies for burial. They wrapped the animal first in a towel or blanket. The blanket could have even been brought in with the pet to comfort the animal before it passed away. Then, the animal's body was placed in a plastic bag and the bag secured with tape for the trip home. Then, the A's buried the animals. (I mean, you probably wouldn't want to unwrap the pet and then bury it.)

 

[LolaMoon08]

Glad I am not the only one who had an "OMG" moment when Jose started questioning the burial of the pets. The blanket. The trash bags. The duct tape. The borrowing of the shovel. The hit in the backyard of human decomposition. The disturbed area in the backyard. Wow! It all came together. Absolutely horrifying!

I also question whether Casey killed the mother/offspring dogs? And if she was chloroforming the two dogs they have now?? It is not a stretch at all to have these thoughts come to mind.

What was Jose thinking? I'm happy he wasn't, but he just made things so much worse for Casey. I am sure this did not escape quite a few jurors. Especially those with pets.

 

[spartanmom]

Can or will the state bring up the pet burial issues during rebuttal phase as possibly ICA's way of thinking when disposing of Caylees body????

 

[azscr4mbl3r]

Good post Wholehearted. I too wonder why the defense would bring this issue before the jury. Like you said, it sounds like pet funerals and burials were a family affair. This pattern would fit any of the family members.

Since the defense has rested its case today, I guess we won't be hearing evidence as to how the Anthony family members wrapped garbage.

jmo

Except only one family member "benefited" from it. :waitasec:

 

[spartanmom]

As someone who has had a little training in this area, animal abuse/killings are often an early sign that a young person is going to have issues later in life. Also, she clearly has very little/no remorse for her actions and is very self focused--another big sign. I wouldn't put it past her to kill again if she were to walk free. I don't think she sees any wrong in her actions and maybe even gets a charge from it.

I cannot believe this information was presented by the DT and not the State. I think they just sealed her fate. She is in big trouble.

I was thinking the same thing!!! Animal cruelty/abuse is very common and I believe is on the list of "symptoms" for a sociopath??? or something of that sort.....:waitasec:

I searched and found this information.....I think it is very interesting. Of course, we don't know if any of the A's pets were abused by ICA, but, it is something to note. I hope it is okay for me to post this bit of infomation, if not I am very sorry!!!

http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/guilt

 

[AnotherGladysKravitz]

Glad I am not the only one who had an "OMG" moment when Jose started questioning the burial of the pets. The blanket. The trash bags. The duct tape. The borrowing of the shovel. The hit in the backyard of human decomposition. The disturbed area in the backyard. Wow! It all came together. Absolutely horrifying!

I also question whether Casey killed the mother/offspring dogs? And if she was chloroforming the two dogs they have now?? It is not a stretch at all to have these thoughts come to mind.

What was Jose thinking? I'm happy he wasn't, but he just made things so much worse for Casey. I am sure this did not escape quite a few jurors. Especially those with pets.

This.

At some point, didn't CA say ICA changed during high school? There's so much to this case, I may be wrong, but it sounds familiar. So along that line of thought, if she was having trouble in school and Mom is on her case about it...I could see her doing something to the dogs that her mom loved so much. The deaths of Ginger and Cinnamon are so hinky to me, I just can't believe that she didn't have something to do with it.

This little snippet was the most compelling testimony of the entire trial. I cannot believe that Baez opened this door.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I was just about to search for documents that show that many "future" killers often torture or kill animals first. Once more, DT opened the door to even more consideration that Casey had the potential to "dispose" of anyone who stole the spotlight from her - including beloved family pets. How sad!

BTW: Happy Canada Day tomorrow :leaf:

BBM Thank you!:fireworks2:

 

[legalmania]

I don't understand what the big shock is, what else do you do with your animals when they die. You either bury them or cremate them. Most people wrap them in some kind of plastic because they can't stand the thought of bugs getting inside. I would have been shocked if they said they threw them out with the trash, like Caylee basically was. If Casey was killing the dogs with chloroform back in high school then she would have already known how to make it and I don't think 84 searches would be necessary. IMO Cindy was teaching the children the proper way to treat the remains of an animal. Another thing I heard, that wasn't true was they use to bury their animals in the woods, where Caylee was found. Now I hear they buried them in the back yard and would even marked the grave, which is what most people do. I also don't think that 6 to 8 dogs and cats dying over a 30 year span is that unusual. I had a kitten that died at 6 months old at the vets when she was getting spade. I still have the kittens mother who is 16, so you never know how long they are going to live.

 

[spartanmom]

This.

At some point, didn't CA say ICA changed during high school? There's so much to this case, I may be wrong, but it sounds familiar. So along that line of thought, if she was having trouble in school and Mom is on her case about it...I could see her doing something to the dogs that her mom loved so much. The deaths of Ginger and Cinnamon are so hinky to me, I just can't believe that she didn't have something to do with it.

This little snippet was the most compelling testimony of the entire trial. I cannot believe that Baez opened this door.

I agree with this.....ICA was jealous of CA's love of the dogs, hence the dogs died......then ICA was jealous of CA's love of Caylee, and this is what happens!! I very much agree with the theory of ICA possibly using chloroform on the yorkies, with them being sleepy. I think CA possibly did search for yorkies and sleeping, etc on the computer or a computer. I also wonder if she had suspicion of ICA doing these types of things or along those lines, etc.

JB opened the door and brought in a whole new light on the twisted mind of ICA and theories as to what could have possibly happened or triggered alot of the happenings inside the A's homelife. WOW is all I can say. :waitasec:

 

[gamom]

Yes. Jose was right...suddenly I have had an "aha" moment.

Thanks was not enough. This is exactly what I was thinking when he started bringing up all of the pets and how they were burried. I would not be surprised if she had something to do with the pets illness. When CA said "Pets are my babies" I wondered if KC was jelous of their attention as well.

 

[greenpalm]

I don't understand what the big shock is, what else do you do with your animals when they die. You either bury them or cremate them. Most people wrap them in some kind of plastic because they can't stand the thought of bugs getting inside. I would have been shocked if they said they threw them out with the trash, like Caylee basically was. If Casey was killing the dogs with chloroform back in high school then she would have already known how to make it and I don't think 84 searches would be necessary. IMO Cindy was teaching the children the proper way to treat the remains of an animal. Another thing I heard, that wasn't true was they use to bury their animals in the woods, where Caylee was found. Now I hear they buried them in the back yard and would even marked the grave, which is what most people do. I also don't think that 6 to 8 dogs and cats dying over a 30 year span is that unusual. I had a kitten that died at 6 months old at the vets when she was getting spade. I still have the kittens mother who is 16, so you never know how long they are going to live.

Yes, I have been having similar thoughts…what else would people do with pets? They get cremated or buried.

I know I've read that the blanket wrapping is something that indicates affection or caregiving. This came up with JonBenet, and more recently Camden Hughes, who were each wrapped in a blanket. The blanket suggests a familiar person was involved. So, maybe people wrap their pets for similar reasons, or, maybe it's just as you said, an attempt to keep bugs out, but either way, it demonstrates concern. Pedophiles, on the other hand don't wrap, they just dump.

 

[AZlawyer]

I don't understand what the big shock is, what else do you do with your animals when they die. You either bury them or cremate them. Most people wrap them in some kind of plastic because they can't stand the thought of bugs getting inside. I would have been shocked if they said they threw them out with the trash, like Caylee basically was. If Casey was killing the dogs with chloroform back in high school then she would have already known how to make it and I don't think 84 searches would be necessary. IMO Cindy was teaching the children the proper way to treat the remains of an animal. Another thing I heard, that wasn't true was they use to bury their animals in the woods, where Caylee was found. Now I hear they buried them in the back yard and would even marked the grave, which is what most people do. I also don't think that 6 to 8 dogs and cats dying over a 30 year span is that unusual. I had a kitten that died at 6 months old at the vets when she was getting spade. I still have the kittens mother who is 16, so you never know how long they are going to live.

The shock is that JB created a picture in the jurors' minds of Casey taking something dead, wrapping it in a blanket, putting it in garbage bags, using tape (somehow) in the process, maybe adding some "love" token, getting a shovel, and placing the dead thing on the ground in the back yard.

Now it will be easier for the jurors to continue the mental movie on their own: ... and then she realized she couldn't dig the grave there and put the "package" in her trunk and drove around wondering what to do until it finally smelled so awful that she threw it into a swamp.

 

[Capri]

I was thinking the same thing!!! Animal cruelty/abuse is very common and I believe is on the list of "symptoms" for a sociopath??? or something of that sort.....:waitasec:

I searched and found this information.....I think it is very interesting. Of course, we don't know if any of the A's pets were abused by ICA, but, it is something to note. I hope it is okay for me to post this bit of infomation, if not I am very sorry!!!

http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/guilt

What is the link to? I'm getting a basic page about guilt. Not seeeing anything on animals or pet abuse or similar. ?

 

[legalmania]

I would have to know how old the pets were. If they all died at a year or two then there would be something wrong, but the way Cindy was talking it sounded to me like they had them for awhile and it was time for them to be put down, the humane thing to do. She said she discussed it with the vet first and the vet agreed that would be the proper way to handle it.

 

[snowdaze]

I just wonder what the jurors are thinking with this line of questoning? I thought the whole thing was bizarre and wonder what JB was trying to get at. It creeped me out and left me thinking OMG is this where she learned this from and what happened to all these pets? It certainly didn't confirm to me that Caylee died by drowning in a swimming pool or that KCs bizarre 31 days of partying were the result of being molested, and that's the bottom line here!

 

[Melanie]

I don't know why the pets would be wrapped in plastic (?) or be taped together in any way, but this is my best guess...

If I recall correctly, the first pets the A's buried died at the vet's office. Perhaps that's how the vet's office prepared the bodies for burial. They wrapped the animal first in a towel or blanket. The blanket could have even been brought in with the pet to comfort the animal before it passed away. Then, the animal's body was placed in a plastic bag and the bag secured with tape for the trip home. Then, the A's buried the animals. (I mean, you probably wouldn't want to unwrap the pet and then bury it.)

I believe you are correct. The A's went with how the vet wrapped the first dead animal and kept on with that. I know that when my fur baby died, I couldn't go in (I was PG at the time) and it was just too stressful and emotional for me. She was my baby But we chose to have her cremated -- I really didn't know there was another option (besides a pet cemetary).

Growing up I had 2 dogs die in a span of 20 years, and both were put down by the vet and disposed of by the vet.

On a note to lift your spirits - my 2nd dog had gotten into some plant poison to kill snails, and my mum found him in the garden. She was so upset, she called my brother, who quickly came over. Mum said, take him to the vet before Mel gets home (knowing how much I loved the little guy). They both said he was as dead as a doornail.

Imagine my brothers suprise as he was driving to the vet, and there's my dog sitting up in the back seat panting in the rear view mirror! That silly dog had come back to life (he never was dead, but they certainly thought so).

The vet said he was A-OK, and he went on to live many more years. Funny - after that, mum would cook him breakfast every day. That dog was treated better than us kids!!

Mel

 

[legalmania]

The shock is that JB created a picture in the jurors' minds of Casey taking something dead, wrapping it in a blanket, putting it in garbage bags, using tape (somehow) in the process, maybe adding some "love" token, getting a shovel, and placing the dead thing on the ground in the back yard.

Now it will be easier for the jurors to continue the mental movie on their own: ... and then she realized she couldn't dig the grave there and put the "package" in her trunk and drove around wondering what to do until it finally smelled so awful that she threw it into a swamp.

I think the bigger shock was the skull with duct tape over her mouth and nose. The actual picture of the blanket, shorts and the shirt with the letters big trouble. The actual physical evidence, that the jury will hold and look at.

 

[FootballMom]

I find the "tradition" of wrapping the pets in blankets, plastic & tape and CA's dogs suddenly becoming ill and/or lethargic in March far too coincidental. I think ICA exacted her revenge on her parents by harming their beloved pets and then building up to Caylee.

That behavior usually develops in childhood and who else can a child exert 'authority over' more than an animal - all the better if it's loved by someone you are mad at... That doesn't mean I think she murdered every family pet but given what we know about her parental instincts I'd bet at the very least she contributed to the illness and/or demise of a few animals. Heck, she even blamed a few squirrels for her murderous actions.

In March (17th St. Pat's), (19th ICA’s b'day), (21st Friday night) she was pizzed at her parents again so she decided to start looking into ways to work around this little problem of no babysitter, not being able to go out when she wanted and “selfish” parents from whom she could inherit a house & life insurance if they should befall some sort of household accident.

She saw the “win her over with chloroform” MySpace pix and that gave her one idea… The One Tree Hill episode helped with the backup kidnapping story if anything went wrong… she started experimenting on her mom’s dogs with batches of homemade chloroform... took her several attempts before she finally got the formula correct (84 searches)... who knows how many times she may have searched for it (or worse) before March or on other computers that weren’t searched...

The fight/threats to take Caylee on June 15th and then on the 16th when CA wasn't available or willing to babysit that night… ICA decided that was the final straw and behaved exactly as she described her reason to LA on July 15th; "maybe I’m just a spiteful bi*ch"... (I can almost hear ICA on the afternoon of June 16th – ‘I’ve been calling you all afternoon because I have to go to work and need to know if I can drop off Caylee!!! (CA can’t or says no) Fine!! You want me to be responsible, earn a living and threaten to take her from me but when I need to go to work you can't be bothered with babysitting – surprise, surprise!&#8217 Soooo…. MAYBE….

1.) ICA poured her entire homemade batch of chloroform onto Caylee's blanket, wrapped duct tape around her face & head & tossed her in the trunk. If the chloroform didn't kill Caylee the duct tape would or it would at least keep her quiet in case she woke up. In ICA's plan the duct tape also ties in well with a kidnapping scenario; if it ever comes to that... OR MAYBE...

2.) ICA placed the duct tape on Caylee & threw her in the pool (ties into her "borrowing little bits of truth" for the Caylee drowned & kidnapping stories – just not so much at the same time).... She pulls Caylee out of the pool, wraps her in a blanket, her batch of chloroform spills in the trunk during the rush to get out of the house or she pours it in there just for good measure.

I think ICA borrowed the shovel to bury Caylee in the swamp – not in the back yard, she drove down the street, realized/decided that was too much work to dig so she just left her. Although I wouldn’t put it past ICA to consider burying Caylee in the back yard but only as an added “dig” against her parents (Yet another thing I can hear ICA saying, ‘You want your precious little girl so much – well she is “close to home” with all of your other PETS that you loved more than your own daughter!&#8217.

I don’t think ICA carried Caylee’s decomposing body through the house. I think the decomp in the yard is from ICA jumping in the pool after returning from the swamp. Her OCD parents would absolutely notice mud/dirt tracked into the house & she was in too much of a hurry to leave. She either went into the pool fully clothed or stripped down in the yard (either way her clothes laid in pile in that yard for a bit). She went inside, changed clothes, returned the unused/clean shovel to the neighbor via the side gate, grabbed her dirty clothes from outside, tossed them into the trunk and fled (again). In her rush to get out of the house she left the ladder up & forgot to lock the gate.

Or... maybe I'm totally wrong about everything... would not be the 1st time and won't be my last.

 

[LolaMoon08]

The shock is that JB created a picture in the jurors' minds of Casey taking something dead, wrapping it in a blanket, putting it in garbage bags, using tape (somehow) in the process, maybe adding some "love" token, getting a shovel, and placing the dead thing on the ground in the back yard.

Now it will be easier for the jurors to continue the mental movie on their own: ... and then she realized she couldn't dig the grave there and put the "package" in her trunk and drove around wondering what to do until it finally smelled so awful that she threw it into a swamp.

The biggest shock for me was that Casey felt that Caylee deserved the same kind of burial as a dog? I have a cat and I plan on getting a casket and burying her in a pet cemetery (that's just me). Everyone has their own ways to bury their pets... and the Anthony family had their own way of dealing with the death of their pets. However, if that was even my way of burying my pets, you better believe that I would not wrap my MOTHER in trash bags and throw her into a hole in the backyard. That is just so wrong on so many levels.

 

[Capri]

The biggest shock for me was that Casey felt that Caylee deserved the same kind of burial as a dog? I have a cat and I plan on getting a casket and burying her in a pet cemetery (that's just me). Everyone has their own ways to bury their pets... and the Anthony family had their own way of dealing with the death of their pets. However, if that was even my way of burying my pets, you better believe that I would not wrap my MOTHER in trash bags and throw her into a hole in the backyard. That is just so wrong on so many levels.

She didn't even do that much. She threw her in a swamp. CA's dogs got better than that.