Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #1

[SuziQ]

DD, thanks for reposting Chris' page and reminding me to go back. Below is a link to a very interesting post from Chris' sister about going national. Bold is by me.

(a few snips)
When Chris was found we were told he was just a drunken college kid that jumped off a bridge. We knew differently. FYI: his blood alcohol level was .1 after 4 months of decomposition in which your body acts as a distillary. According to Dr. Michael Baden he likely had little or no alcohol in his system at the time of death. That is an indication of how long he was held before he was killed

We knew right away it was murder. Why? He was found floating face up, hands crossed across his chest with one hand clenched, clog type shoes still on (they had a very small lip on the back), shirt tucked in, and less than a tsp. of water in his lungs. Bodies in moving water do not show up like this. It was clear Chris was probably along the shore encased in ice where the rushing water didn't affect his clothing in that amount of time. We felt there was NO WAY his body hung out around Nicollet Island all winter, he would have been seen. Part of his face and hands were exposed to the elements most of the time because the rate of decomposition on them was much more than the trunk of his body, his legs, back etc.

 

[Ang50]

Ang-thanks for posting about the Lake Mendota drowning? Do you know how they ruled that?

Accidental. It was an Asian foreign exchange student. He disappeared from the school where he was studying English. FWIW - I personally do not believe that he is part of a pattern....

 

[DeltaDawn]

That was his girlfriend that had is cell phone and wallet, right? She was an employee

That is the first time I have heard that his girlfriend was an employee at the Lone Tree. Can you verify that with a quote from an article or video?

 

[cecileew]

That is the first time I have heard that his girlfriend was an employee at the Lone Tree. Can you verify that with a quote from an article or video?

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2002/12/02/37316

 

[shadowraiths]

I don't see them losing credibility because of the PI's statement. (The Detectives weren't on the program and weren't there to verify what he was saying.) That being said, what I think he was getting at is that the large river was only a convenience to where these occurred, but they are not concentrated in WI or MI because of the river where the men were found, but because of the location of these people who are doing this.

Thanks for the clarification.

That being said, this was (is) my issue. If they (being the two detectives, not the PI) put forth a theory that is already prima facially ice thin, then they really do need something more concrete than saying they found smiley faces at locations that may (or not) be where these boys went into the water.

Why? Bc, suggesting a nation wide smiley face killer gang is running around killing young men without hard evidence decreases the likelihood that any LEA will take them seriously. And what these families need (and deserve) far more than just our belief that something is fishy, is for LE to revisit these cases.

That is why, I personally, am all for the statistical approach (at least, for now, and until they can provide concrete evidence). I've sliced and diced what data I had every way I could, bc I was quite skeptical. The results however challenged that skepticism.

 

[cecileew]

It is further down past the picture. I read it in several articles, they went to the bar together then separated- talking to other people throughout the evening. Sorry I am new at this!

 

[laini]

I notice almost all of these drownings are during the school year. Not in the summer, when I would think an accidental drowning while drunk would be most common. Does anyone know - are these bars around college towns pretty slow in the summer when college isn't going on? Or are they still pretty busy?

 

[shadowraiths]

That is the first time I have heard that his girlfriend was an employee at the Lone Tree. Can you verify that with a quote from an article or video?

It's on page 19 26 of the casefile pdf: click here

 

[DeltaDawn]

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2002/12/02/37316

Thanks..it does say his girlfriend was an employee there..it does not say she was working that night. Nor does it say she had his keys, cellphone, wallet and coat.

 

[MCDRAW]

I caught that on Nic's thread too Dark Shadows. Which leads me to question why so many local LE 's don't want to admit something much more sinister is in play here. I am glad Nic's Mom is persuing this with the detectives.

I read all the comments on the news articles on these cases..and most locals seem to believe that something wicked this way comes..why can't the local LE see that? And if locals know this is an unusal number of deaths in that area due to drunkeness in the wee hours..why doesn't LE see that? I mean yes people drown..not but not at that hour of the night.

As always thank you so much DarkShadows for all your efforts in the local searches in your area. You are a blessing to all. God bless you.

I think they don't want to admit they are all connected because, it would stir up media attention, which would cause people to panic. I think a little panic would be a good thing. At least it would make college students more aware. It's either that or a pride thing. Otherwise, it makes no sense.

 

[cecileew]

Thanks..it does say his girlfriend was an employee there..it does not say she was working that night. Nor does it say she had his keys, cellphone, wallet and coat.

I think I read that info in the case file that was just linked, not in the article I referenced. I read so much tonight that it all ran together.

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks..it does say his girlfriend was an employee there..it does not say she was working that night. Nor does it say she had his keys, cellphone, wallet and coat.

I don't know where I read it, but, IIRC, she wasn't working that night and carried those items because of his costume. When she couldn't locate Chris the next day, she contacted his parents and took the items to them.

 

[MCDRAW]

Josh's brother is saying the police say that Josh made up the story about people chasing him in order to impress the girl whose house he was going to. **HELLO - how many people making up stories end up dead??**

5,000 drowning deaths per year across the country, accidents are most common killer of young people. Some guy talking about how parents are grasping at reasons other than alcohol/accidents for these deaths.

At one time on Websleuths, I did the research to figure out how many people died in WI from drowning. (It's either on Homan's or Dion's thread.) In essence, although LE acts like this is a very common occurrence, it is not.

So now the police are blaming the victim. The fact that they are grasping for straws tells me they know they have made some mistakes.

 

[SuziQ]

DD, I believe the info about what transpired at the bar and with his girlfriend can be found here...somewhere.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/mpdcasefile.pdf

 

[SuziQ]

Cincinnati, St. Cloud police to review drowning cases
Video on the right side of the page:

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S428411.shtml?cat=1

 

[DeltaDawn]

Here's my problem with Ashley..she came with him and his group of friends to the Lone Tree..made a point of introducing him to the officers..but yet was worried at the end of the night because she didn't have a ride home..not where is my boyfriend to take me home? And an off duty officer gives her a ride. Does it seem like she was covering way too many bases there? Maybe I am just looking for things that aren't there.

 

[cecileew]

Here's my problem with Ashley..she came with him and his group of friends to the Lone Tree..made a point of introducing him to the officers..but yet was worried at the end of the night because she didn't have a ride home..not where is my boyfriend to take me home? And an off duty officer gives her a ride. Does it seem like she was covering way too many bases there?

Yes and I thought it was weird(Page 28 in the case file) that a waitress, Vollmer "was previously asked by Lone Tree management to account for the number of drinks and times she saw Jenkins throughout the night"

 

[SeriouslySearching]

 

[SuziQ]

Yes and I thought it was weird(Page 28 in the case file) that a waitress, Vollmer "was previously asked by Lone Tree management to account for the number of drinks and times she saw Jenkins throughout the night"

That would be hard to determine since Ashley was buying the drinks for all of her friends at a buck a piece. (employee discount).

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I found it strange myself, DD. She didn't seem at all concerned that she had his phone and wallet...but he was nowhere to be found. She did treat him differently than I would expect a boyfriend/girlfriend would be acting on Halloween night, too. I don't recall ever going off to flirt with other people on a different level of the bar and leaving my SO for most of the night. Maybe once or twice...but not for extended periods of time. It was very odd behavior, but maybe she thought it was acceptable for some reason. Still, doesn't explain why she didn't care if he went home with her. Most girls her age would worry more that he was going home with someone else and would keep closer tabs.