Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[Blink34]

But the missing men, since found and classified as accidental drownings, are not missing any organs?

 

[RR0004]

But the missing men, since found and classified as accidental drownings, are not missing any organs?

Good point!

 

[scswimmom]

I know, that's what I was thinking too. Do you think it's possible that maybe they were missing body parts, but the police aren't making that known? That would be the only way that this would make sense. I don't know... just another interesting theory to think about!

 

[mysteriew]

I know, that's what I was thinking too. Do you think it's possible that maybe they were missing body parts, but the police aren't making that known? That would be the only way that this would make sense. I don't know... just another interesting theory to think about!

If there were missing body parts, they would have been determined to be crimes, not accidental.

 

[SheerLuck]

I know, that's what I was thinking too. Do you think it's possible that maybe they were missing body parts, but the police aren't making that known? That would be the only way that this would make sense. I don't know... just another interesting theory to think about!

Body parts are missing and the police are covering it up??? I figured eventually the police would be blamed; maybe some sort of CIA testing game. But really; all these ideas are interesting; be it street gangs, weird sex fetish, college professors/employees, this one here and others, but do any of them really connect, feel right or have any motive? With fun college towns, lots of drinking and cold rivers; the only sensible answer is really that most of these are just unfortunate accidents. The real mystery might be the speed of hypothermia which can kill in minutes if the body temperature drops 10 degrees. And when a kid falls in and accidentally takes a big gulp; they might not ever surface again. Here's a capsule to show how quick a drowning can happen. Here's a 24 year Iraq war vet, a marine who falls off a bridge after a day of drinking in Wisconsin. An eyewitness sees him fall in and runs down to try to save him. He tries to swim but he's drunk and unfortunately goes under and dies. He tested triple the legal limit and the cold water and booze beat him. Also interesting is that he fell 30 feet but the autopsy showd no trauma or injury; so lots of these kids could have fallen a distance and been knocked out just a few seconds and never recovered:

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2007/10/093007-christopher-melancon-24.html

 

[SheerLuck]

FWIW, a few years ago, part of my children's band booster fund raiser activities was where the teens AND their parents worked at a local popular 'concert' venue. It was only opened during the late spring, summer, and early fall.

Part of our job was serving alcoholic drinks, ie beer, wine, margaritas and such. In order to 'sell alcohol,' we were required to take a short class given by the ABC board.

WE, individually would be held libel if we served a minor, not to mention the venue would loose their 'serving' license.

It was up to us, INDIVIDUALLY, to be sure that WE abided by the laws. IF we made a mistake, we could be taken away in handcuffs.

I don't know how other states handle it, but if this case were here, the bartender or server AND the bar or venue WOULD be held accountable.

They make laws for a reason

JMHO
fran

Well, you're right and Dapper Dog paid a hefty fine as they should have. When a young kid is so drunk he falls down in the bathroom; the bar has got to make sure he gets home okay; in this case a taxi should have been called. In New York it's also illegal for a person under 21 to drink alcohol unless they are at home and have parents consent. By breaking the law, it might neutralize the bar's responsible and a court might see this death as a shared responsibility. In question and important in New York state is weather the underage drinker presented false id.

 

[mysteriew]

Body parts are missing and the police are covering it up??? I figured eventually the police would be blamed; maybe some sort of CIA testing game. But really; all these ideas are interesting; be it street gangs, weird sex fetish, college professors/employees, this one here and others, but do any of them really connect, feel right or have any motive? With fun college towns, lots of drinking and cold rivers; the only sensible answer is really that most of these are just unfortunate accidents. The real mystery might be the speed of hypothermia which can kill in minutes if the body temperature drops 10 degrees. And when a kid falls in and accidentally takes a big gulp; they might not ever surface again. Here's a capsule to show how quick a drowning can happen. Here's a 24 year Iraq war vet, a marine who falls off a bridge after a day of drinking in Wisconsin. An eyewitness sees him fall in and runs down to try to save him. He tries to swim but he's drunk and unfortunately goes under and dies. He tested triple the legal limit and the cold water and booze beat him. Also interesting is that he fell 30 feet but the autopsy showd no trauma or injury; so lots of these kids could have fallen a distance and been knocked out just a few seconds and never recovered:

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2007/10/093007-christopher-melancon-24.html

Using your theory of drunk + thermal then would that mean I have to hypothicize that there are no young males in Vt., NH., Mass. and Ma. that drink to excess? They don't seem to have the problem of drunk young men voluntarily jumping into the frigid waters. And of course it doesn't explain the number who are voluntarily jumping in Ga., and their rivers are not usually determined to be frigid. Sudden snow in Ga.?

 

[RR0004]

Well, you're right and Dapper Dog paid a hefty fine as they should have. When a young kid is so drunk he falls down in the bathroom; the bar has got to make sure he gets home okay; in this case a taxi should have been called. In New York it's also illegal for a person under 21 to drink alcohol unless they are at home and have parents consent. By breaking the law, it might neutralize the bar's responsible and a court might see this death as a shared responsibility. In question and important in New York state is weather the underage drinker presented false id.

Do you really think a fine of $8500 is a deterrent for a bar like that? It wasn't the first time and I'm sure it wasn't the last time.
I found this info from 1998...very interesting...

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1998/06/07/1998-06-07_mystery_deaths_haunt_4_famil.html

 

[DeltaDawn]

We need a break or a leak in this case. Someone out there knows something and has for some time now. I wish they would go to the LE in their area. I also wish we had a lead on the graffiti..which grafitti and how to read it, at the regional areas.

 

[SheerLuck]

Using your theory of drunk + thermal then would that mean I have to hypothicize that there are no young males in Vt., NH., Mass. and Ma. that drink to excess? They don't seem to have the problem of drunk young men voluntarily jumping into the frigid waters. And of course it doesn't explain the number who are voluntarily jumping in Ga., and their rivers are not usually determined to be frigid. Sudden snow in Ga.?

I'm just trying to be objective and after studying every angle; unless more compelling evidence is brought forward; I've concluded that most died from accidentally drowning; with maybe 5 that were either murdered or comitted suicide. "My theory" is based on the numbers which show a bunch of young men die every year from the combination of alcohol and accidental drowning and that this is nothing new. Even in states like Georgia you can have some hypothermia deaths(I'll post link with info for you because I know you won't believe me, but I think you'll be surprised). Only because of the internet do we know 8 Wisconsin boys died from drowning in the last 11 years, but did anyone know that 16 drowned from 1974 to 1997? Was there also a pod of serial killers in Wisconsin from 1974-1997 or was the real killer simply alcohol abuse? As for Vt, NH, Mass and Ma; Nick Garza drowned in Vermont, John Pike drowned in Mass last year and a 24 year old female drowned in Maine in 2005 after a night of drinking with her friends; so occasionally a young female will also accidentally drown after a niight of drinking. Here's the John Pike link from Mass:

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/06/060407-john-pike-23-fairhaven-ma.html

Here's unfortunate young lady from Maine:

http://www.wmtw.com/news/5212506/detail.html

and here's a link from 1997 to show that even in states like Georgia some people die from hypothermia:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/00055930.htm

 

[SheerLuck]

They don't seem to have the problem of drunk young men voluntarily jumping into the frigid waters. And of course it doesn't explain the number who are voluntarily jumping in Ga.,

Please stop misquoting me. I only think a few of these are suicides; maybe 3. But I do think the issue of young men committing suicide at a rate 4 times higher than young women is relevant; not only because it might explan a few of these deaths; but in the bigger picture; it shows that young men and young women have different ways of dealing with their problems and coping with their problems. One of the differences might be that young men who have problems might turn to alcohol and/or drugs as a solution, while young women might find better ways to cope with their problems.

 

[dark_shadows]

Please stop misquoting me. I only think a few of these are suicides; maybe 3. But I do think the issue of young men committing suicide at a rate 4 times higher than young women is relevant; not only because it might explan a few of these deaths; but in the bigger picture; it shows that young men and young women have different ways of dealing with their problems and coping with their problems. One of the differences might be that young men who have problems might turn to alcohol and/or drugs as a solution, while young women might find better ways to cope with their problems.

Responding to the parts I bolded in the quote to Mysteriew.
1. I do not any misquotes.

2.You cannot be serious.

 

[SheerLuck]

Responding to the parts I bolded the quote.
1. I do not any misquotes.

2.You cannot be serious.

Can't be serious about what? Unless some compelling evidence is produced; of the 40 or so "connected" cases; I think only 2 or 3 are suicides; I think only 2 or 3 involve foul play and I think about 35 are simply just drunken accidents. The numbers do not lie and the numbers involving accidents and gender as posted by LuthersMama have NOT changed for 40 years. For 40 years; young males have died in drowning accidents at a better than 80% clip compared to young woman and young males also commit suicide at a better than 80% clip than young woman. It's a proven fact that alcohol is the number 1 cause of ALL the different kinds of accidents that involve adults. Those facts in red are proven. I was speculating;and I might be wrong, but I thought if a much higher % of young men compared to young woman; are more likely to turn to alcohol when depressed; than alcohol might also be the number 1 reason why the suicide statistics are also skewed by a 4-1 ratio

 

[Peace261]

Sadly ... there is a lot of similarities .... especially with the smiley face ... copy cat ... or gang signs ....

As far as I have discovered ... the police have not reported any missing body parts ... (good question earlier) as this could lead to "organ harvesting" for donations to patients in need ..... very lucrative business in the medical community ... in fact I believe there was an MD - in California I think ... charged with selling "deaceased body organs" to donor banks without deceased family consent ... and he was convicted.

My question would be ... and lead to ...our "war on terror" ... with no recent terror attacks on the USA .... could these deaths be connected to an underground terror network that is slowly and systematically creating fear across our college campus and nightspots?

I think there needs to be a NATIONAL database set up immediately to track any and all incidents that may be related ... late teen - young males found in or near waterways, pools, lakes, ocean, etc and share this information with all LE and police agencies.

Something is clearly happening here .... right before our eyes ...

Peace.

Peace.

 

[dark_shadows]

Just one link with 3 pages to read;

http://www.time.com/time/2002/wdrinking/story.html

Women On a Binge
Many teen girls are drinking as much as boys. More college women regularly get drunk. Is this a case of girl power gone awry?
By By JODIE MORSE


Alot of info here, at the top of page 2 it tells about teen females being more depressed than men.

 

[RR0004]

I totally agree, Peace!!

 

[concernedperson]

Sadly ... there is a lot of similarities .... especially with the smiley face ... copy cat ... or gang signs ....

As far as I have discovered ... the police have not reported any missing body parts ... (good question earlier) as this could lead to "organ harvesting" for donations to patients in need ..... very lucrative business in the medical community ... in fact I believe there was an MD - in California I think ... charged with selling "deaceased body organs" to donor banks without deceased family consent ... and he was convicted.

My question would be ... and lead to ...our "war on terror" ... with no recent terror attacks on the USA .... could these deaths be connected to an underground terror network that is slowly and systematically creating fear across our college campus and nightspots?

I think there needs to be a NATIONAL database set up immediately to track any and all incidents that may be related ... late teen - young males found in or near waterways, pools, lakes, ocean, etc and share this information with all LE and police agencies.

Something is clearly happening here .... right before our eyes ...

Peace.

Peace.

If any young males were found that indicated recent surgical procedures it would have been noted. To harvest body parts one has to be skilled/trained to a degree. Even if the males weren't sutured after the procedure the organ missing would be noted.

 

[SheerLuck]

Do you really think a fine of $8500 is a deterrent for a bar like that? It wasn't the first time and I'm sure it wasn't the last time.
I found this info from 1998...very interesting...

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1998/06/07/1998-06-07_mystery_deaths_haunt_4_famil.html

Good article and good find. My first thought is to look at the numbers before 1997 and after 1998 to see if this is really that surprising. This article shows there are 3 drowning deaths of young men in New York in 2 years(1997-1998). According to Shadows website; there were no drowning deaths in NY of young men from 1999 to 2003, but there've been 6 drowning deaths of young men in the state of New York in just the past 4 years. If the stats are similiar between 1975-1996 and alcohol is the common denominator in most of those also; then is the killer alcohol abuse or a 30 year serial killer?

 

[RR0004]

SL- that's how long the Zodiac killer was around. BTW- as was mentioned in the article by the medical examiner IIRC...it was 3 undetermined drownings in 15 months.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Please continue on the new thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2318240#post2318240