Decomp smell **REVISIT**

[cecybeans]

IIRC, GA mentioned he had to drive home in the rain with the windows open because the car smelled so bad. Even without decomp, that car would have smelled if he had turned on the A/C. A car left in a lot in the heat and humidity for two weeks would have just simply spewed mildewy, stinky moldy air if GA had turned on the air conditioning.

I think the towyard is less than 10 minutes away, so I don't know how long it would take for that kind of odor to permeate clothes, but I can imagine that, regardless, he would have run and taken a shower after he did whatever he did in the first few minutes. I still think his timeline is very odd - report to admin office at 2:30 or so and then to job site at 5:20 (using E-Z Pass records). Was he there the whole time at the office? He certainly had time to report in, go back home, clean things up, get another shower and show up for work if he used a less verifiable route.

What may also have helped with the clean up (washing machine-wise) is the amount of chlorine that is often in FL water (for obvious reasons). When I lived there, I had my water tested and, in addition to it being so hard that it is actually known as the "kidney stone state", there was more chlorine in it than in a swimming pool and we lived so close to the water treatment plant that I was told they actually put alum in the water to cover the smell of the chlorine. I tell ya, I saved a boatload of money on having to buy Clorox very often.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS


Interview with LE
Lee Anthony
July 29, 2008

(Speaking of Cindy's birthday/June 5th to the 9th, LE asks if during that visit by Casey, did LA know if George noticed the smell in the car. LA says if the car had smelled "back then" he is sure his father would have noticed and commented. He does state that by the time GA and CA went to pick up the car from the tow yard they had trouble with the smell).

LE: And I would ask for your note sheet was there any, did he get close enough to determine if there was any smell in the car at that time from the squirrels?
LA: I'm, I'm pretty sure he would have mentioned it at this point.
LE: Okay
(skip)
LE: He may have not, yeah, he may have not gotten close enough.
LA: That's, that's true.
(skip)
LE: Just little things you can maybe ask him for me. Um, number eleven being the two dead squirrels incident.
LA: Uh-hum
LE: ...or the information uhm, I want to touch up, uhm, tell me about that. Uh, lets see, Casey did a, oh. You questioned the (inaudible) because of the smell in the car.
LA: Right
LE: Okay, tell me about that.
LA: Casey had uhm, uh, uh, advised me on the 15th while I was waiting to fill out my statement before I could go to Tony's to pick up Casey's stuff. Uhm, I was in the garage because they had separated my folks from my sister. I sat in the garage with my sister.
LE: With the car right there?
LA: With the car right there. And it was atrocious.
LE: Uh-hum
LA: Uhm, and I couldn't be there any more for a minute or two and I had to keep going back inside because the smell was so bad. Uhm, I sat down with her and uh, when I referenced the car smell she said, "Well it, it actually started around Mom's birthday" when, uhm, which is again June 5th. She said, "It started around that time when uhm, two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car uhm, you know, and, and they died in there." And I immediately questioned that uhm, just per, that time per her time line with my mother's birthday being the 5th, and my mother last seeing Caylee she believed at that time the 8th. My sister saying that the last time that she had saw Caylee at that time she said the 9th of June, I questioned, well either mom or dad would have smelled that. My dad specifically because he always enjoys to clean the cars, especially on the weekends. If not every weekend every other weekend. Uhm...
LE: Very methodical about that maybe?
LA: Oh, absolutely. I mean he details the cars inside and out. I mean that's his, that was a background that he has a , as a car dealer. So I mean this is, that's something that he's always done.
(skip)
LA: There you go. So uhm, so no. So absolutely, my father was always you know, he would take pride in making sure the stuffs clean inside and out. I mean he's all...he always did that. Uhm, and he would have noticed that smell.
LE: Okay
LA: Frankly I think he would have noticed that smell even walking, not even anything being ventilated that you would have naturally been able to smell. Especially if it was in a hood it, it, it would have, it would have came out. The vapors would have come out of the bottom in a way.
LE: So even if you were standing at the front door of your house and wasn't that close to the car in the driveway...
LA: I thought it was potent enough to where you would have been able to smell it.
LE: By the, by the 15th? But back here...
LA: Back here maybe or maybe not.
LE: Okay
LA: Right. It just seemed, she described it as the smell started, that it all started about that time. She did say it got progressively worse. And her you know, is, this is how she described it.
LE: Okay
LA: So take that as what you will. But uhm...
LE: The thing you questioned though where you say you didn't believe her was she said that she actually did a little stakeout in the car?
LA: Exactly, Casey described it, when the, when she went back to get Caylee, when Caylee wasn't there, that nobody was there, that she did, she stayed at, she stayed there in her car, at, and like as, as a stakeout to see if they were going to come back. And she described it as not just that night or not just one day but as a few days that she did that. Uhm, and I immediately questioned that to say okay, number one you are saying that you were driving your daughter, you were driving Caylee around in this car, even to the babysitters house, with this atrocious smell. You know...
LE: Right
LA: ...I don't believe she would do that. That she would put Caylee through that and she'd put herself through that. And number two, by her saying that she was doing a stakeout in that car I would think a stakeout would be at least hours, I couldn't stand it for two minutes and I'm standing on the outside of the car. I couldn't imagine me sitting in the car and smelling it.
LE: About what time did she say she did the stakeouts? Because this conversation took place on July 15th.
LA: Again, I never asked her on the exact day.
LE: Uh-hum
LA: But as she was maintaining that this was the 9th, she said the 9th. Even though she says thirty-one days she said the 9th. So when I was questioning her about that she just said, "When I went to pick up Caylee for the first time" which again, when she was maintaining the 9th at that time. Now...
(skip)
LA: Dad went down to get the car. When he got the car...
LE: Who'd he, who'd he take with?
LA: Who did he take with him?
LE: Yeah
LA: No one to my knowledge.
LE: Well he, he was just going to have them tow it back to the house and then...
LA: I'm pretty sure that's what he had them do yes.
LE: Yeah because if he drove it down there he'd...
LA: Oh, no, I take that back. Uhm, my mother and father told me that my dad actually drove the car back because my mother was talking about how she didn't know how my dad survived it because the smell was so bad.(laughs)

"two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car uhm, you know, and, and they died in there."


It is good that Lee was asking questions of Casey but I wonder why he did not ask how dead squirrels could crawl anywhere...least of all under the hood of Casey's car?

When I read the line: "and they died in there", it made me think Caylee did die in the car. I don't know if I think that is true but it made me think that, that was what Casey was saying, telling. And, I was surprised to find out that Casey had gone on a stakeout.

...jmo...

 

[Brini]

Well, we have the whole A family, the tow yard manager, and the lab.

As one poster put it, "How many sniffers do we need/"

 

[autumnlover]

Wouldn't the dead squirrel be the defense's excuse for any smell noticed on Casey?

The FBI forensics lab disproved it. I believe it's in the latest doc dump. They actually let a dead squirrel decompose and stated the smell was not like human decomp.

 

[Firefly]

Patty, well it was raining when he drove home the car, so who knows if he had the A/C on... We will probably never know.

Also, I thought both JG and TL said that they didn't smell anything? I even thought JG made a point to say KC didn't appear to need a shower when she stopped by. So he was basically insinuating that she wasn't stanky.

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong?

Just wonderin' if the JG shower incident with Casey was AFTER she did her little shopping sprees for new clothes with everyone's money? Was the car gone by then?

Have we matched up the wearing of the all the new clothes to the timeline of the car being dumped?

 

[Firefly]

Hello WS
Interview with LE
Lee Anthony
July 29, 2008

LA: Exactly, Casey described it, when the, when she went back to get Caylee, when Caylee wasn't there, that nobody was there, that she did, she stayed at, she stayed there in her car, at, and like as, as a stakeout to see if they were going to come back. And she described it as not just that night or not just one day but as a few days that she did that. Uhm, and I immediately questioned that to say okay, number one you are saying that you were driving your daughter, you were driving Caylee around in this car, even to the babysitters house, with this atrocious smell. You know...
LE: Right
LA: ...I don't believe she would do that. That she would put Caylee through that and she'd put herself through that. And number two, by her saying that she was doing a stakeout in that car I would think a stakeout would be at least hours, I couldn't stand it for two minutes and I'm standing on the outside of the car. I couldn't imagine me sitting in the car and smelling it.


...jmo...

BBM and underscored. Yes she DID drive Caylee around in that smelly mess of a car. Here is one of Casey's "truism" lies.....Caylee was just no longer alive. That is why LA can't BELIEVE what Casey is telling him. It just doesn't add up in his head what she is admitting to him, it doesn't make sense. She just left out that it was Caylee that was the smell. Either he is that dense or Casey is such a great liar.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Tuffy, you are 100% correct. The only use that I'm aware of is for training purposes. I'm assuming that a small quantity goes a long way.

I hate this because I can envision how this info will be used by the defense team to try to tear the training of the dogs apart. They're already hot on the trail to disprove anything the dogs alerted to ~ Cindy was trying to discount their alerts by calling them compromised when they weren't. I forget the exact word she used but it wasn't true. Two separate dogs alerted at the same sites. I'm sure the defense will delve into the the training of the dogs. They would try to add doubt as to the credibility if either of them had been trained with an artificial scent rather than the real thing. I think it's all these small details that the defense will try to build their case on. The only hope they have is to try to discredit every forensic and administrative (chain of custody) evidence they can. It makes me apprehensive!

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I hate this because I can envision how this info will be used by the defense team to try to tear the training of the dogs apart. They're already hot on the trail to disprove anything the dogs alerted to ~ Cindy was trying to discount their alerts by calling them compromised when they weren't. I forget the exact word she used but it wasn't true. Two separate dogs alerted at the same sites. I'm sure the defense will delve into the the training of the dogs. They would try to add doubt as to the credibility if either of them had been trained with an artificial scent rather than the real thing. I think it's all these small details that the defense will try to build their case on. The only hope they have is to try to discredit every forensic and administrative (chain of custody) evidence they can. It makes me apprehensive!

Then the SA just brings up the 31 days again!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

BBM and underscored. Yes she DID drive Caylee around in that smelly mess of a car. Here is one of Casey's "truism" lies.....Caylee was just no longer alive. That is why LA can't BELIEVE what Casey is telling him. It just doesn't add up in his head what she is admitting to him, it doesn't make sense. She just left out that it was Caylee that was the smell. Either he is that dense or Casey is such a great liar.

I understand what you're saying, Firefly. That's the crux of what I don't understand about Lee. This entire statement is so revealing; like he really is trying to help figure everything out with LE, even at the expense of his sister. He was my hope. But he changed so much and it's disturbing to look back and see all this.

Did he finally realize that Casey was driving Caylee around with that awful smell and that Caylee was the smell? Did he think that since he lost Caylee then the only thing he had left was to protect his sister?

But you're right ~ it was another of the "truism lies." I like your new descriptor!

 

[Brini]

I hate this because I can envision how this info will be used by the defense team to try to tear the training of the dogs apart. They're already hot on the trail to disprove anything the dogs alerted to ~ Cindy was trying to discount their alerts by calling them compromised when they weren't. I forget the exact word she used but it wasn't true. Two separate dogs alerted at the same sites. I'm sure the defense will delve into the the training of the dogs. They would try to add doubt as to the credibility if either of them had been trained with an artificial scent rather than the real thing. I think it's all these small details that the defense will try to build their case on. The only hope they have is to try to discredit every forensic and administrative (chain of custody) evidence they can. It makes me apprehensive!

You can pick at some of the rocks in a mountain with a pickax. But, the mountain is still gonna be there.

 

[MissJames]

Then the SA just brings up the 31 days again!

And the fact that the child residing in that home was,indeed,found dead.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I understand what you're saying, Firefly. That's the crux of what I don't understand about Lee. This entire statement is so revealing; like he really is trying to help figure everything out with LE, even at the expense of his sister. He was my hope. But he changed so much and it's disturbing to look back and see all this.

Did he finally realize that Casey was driving Caylee around with that awful smell and that Caylee was the smell? Did he think that since he lost Caylee then the only thing he had left was to protect his sister?

But you're right ~ it was another of the "truism lies." I like your new descriptor!

I admit I held out hope for Lee, in the beginning, and was thrown for a loop too. I thought he was really serious about getting to the truth and was disappointed to find out that he was no more truthful than the others. When he was MIA, I thought he had come to his senses and seperated from the madness coming out of Hopespring Dr. Always to be let down when I saw a news clip or the deposition, "I believe everything my sister has told me". In the beginning I thought maybe he was unaffected by the dysfunction in the home, had made it out allright. I now understand he is not "allright".

 

[Bunkie78]

My question is on the smell in the trunk, and I'll admit that I haven't really read a lot of the info on the science of it. Also, let me say in advance sorry if this is a long post.
So, if Caylee died on the 16th and ICA put her in her trunk why was there no smell emanating from her car until the 27th? I ask this because years ago I was living in a rural wooded area and just about every day I would take a walk around the neighborhood, mostly through an undeveloped part of it. One day as I was approaching the first house that I would come upon after walking through the woods I smelled this horrible sickening almost sweet smell. I knew that it was something dead even though I have never smelled "death" before. Anyway there's an abandon house near the first lived in house and my first thought was some meth head had gotten in there and died. I went home and made my husband at the time come back with me and investigate. He went ahead of me and as he walked into the over grown parking area he found the source of the smell. Turns out it was a neighbors dog, and it had been shot.
I talked to our next door neighbors and learned that he had seen another neighbor across the way fire a gun at the dog because she was messing with his chickens. He said he saw the dog run off so he figured the guy had missed.
Well, that was maybe 2-4 days before I came across her.
So, with that info, if the dog took lets say 4 days to smell, why didn't anyone smell her trunk by the 20th? Is it because she was in bags? But if that's the case how did the decomp fluids transfer to the trunk carpet?
This is the one thing I just can not figure out. I mean I could smell that dog from quite a distance away. I'm not good with judging distance but I was most certainly not right up on her when I smelled her.
TIA for any help and insight.

 

[JBean]

More info:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752&highlight=trunk

 

[Bunkie78]

More info:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752&highlight=trunk

Awesome thank you!

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I think the most damning thing about the trunk decomp vs garbage odor....in KC's text to Amy...she HERSELF said the smell was soooo bad BEFORE she left the car at Amscot.....she then said in a later text she found a squirrel plastered under the tire area as the probable cause of the odor....NOT a bag of garbage she found left in her trunk!!!


ETA : I feel like I wish I could get in touch with the prosecution and remind them about all these things just in case they forgot...LOL

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I suppose the reason no expert has testified as to how long it takes for a body to begin to emit enough scent for a cadaver dog to detect it is because there have been no studies done in this area.

I would think the bodies at the Body Farm are not newly dead.

I did work in a hospital as an R.N. and when a patient died we would have to prepare and tag the body and transport the body to the hospital morgue. Even though the hospital morgue did their absolute best to get the bodies out of there as quickly as possible - because this was cold storage, with no embalming, there was a definite odor in that area.

We were taught that the human body begins to decompose immediately upon death. But weren't really taught anything about how soon a body will emit an odor.

In one of the books I read about Princess Diana's death, it was told how her body was kept in the hospital room as opposed to being taken to the morgue. Because the hospital morgue was in a separate building and they would have had to transport a guerney with her body across a courtyard or some such dumb thing. And the press was outside with telephoto lenses, so they didn't do it.
Well the hospital must not have had air conditioning and it was August in Paris, so reportedly her body was starting to darken and the decision was made to get some embalmers in to go ahead and embalm her to stop that from happening.

Perhaps someone among our members has a connection with a funeral director/mortician who could answer this question?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I think there is a decomp thread here, not sure if it's been addressed there or not (I'm a little squeamish, so don't hang out there too much )

 

[Soulmagent]

I was under the impression a dog couldnt smell the chemical smell from human decomp until 2 or 3 hours after death. I also want to say it was the body farm book I read that in. I hope someone answers us.

Then the next question would be how long after a fresh body is laid before it leaves a residual odor.

 

[Just Jayla]

I think there is a decomp thread here, not sure if it's been addressed there or not (I'm a little squeamish, so don't hang out there too much )

There is, and it has some pictures that are not for the faint of heart.