Deleted Voicemails?

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Nope, you are not alone, I'm suspicious too Max ;-) I'm suspicious of everything now LOL
 
The whole thing, including the brother possibly deleting her voicemails, seems highly suspicious. Imho, of course. His smirk when describing how they broke in didn't help any.

As for guessing the username/passwords? Really? GMAB!

Unless they broke into her computer, and she had both saved in her browser (ala the "keep me logged in" checked)... Yet, that is not what he stated in court. He stated he guessed her username, and also guessed her password. In other words, his version is quite simply, questionable.

As for logs, all websites log ip addresses. And, if the person actually logs in, as opposed to just browsing the site, the ip is attached to that login. Even so, it would not look suspicious, since it was coming from Ms. Halbach residence. Then again, if logs showed various username/password combinations occurring within a very short time frame, it should have at least triggered access alarms.

And, it arguably may have. After all, how would they even know to question these guys with regard to accessing her account from the web?

And finally, unfortunately, I do not know cingular's setup. Especially back in '05.
 
shadowraiths said:
The whole thing, including the brother possibly deleting her voicemails, seems highly suspicious. Imho, of course. His smirk when describing how they broke in didn't help any.

As for guessing the username/passwords? Really? GMAB!

Unless they broke into her computer, and she had both saved in her browser (ala the "keep me logged in" checked)... Yet, that is not what he stated in court. He stated he guessed her username, and also guessed her password. In other words, his version is quite simply, questionable.

As for logs, all websites log ip addresses. And, if the person actually logs in, as opposed to just browsing the site, the ip is attached to that login. Even so, it would not look suspicious, since it was coming from Ms. Halbach residence. Then again, if logs showed various username/password combinations occurring within a very short time frame, it should have at least triggered access alarms.

And, it arguably may have. After all, how would they even know to question these guys with regard to accessing her account from the web?

And finally, unfortunately, I do not know cingular's setup. Especially back in '05.
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You have to keep in mind that they were boyfriend and girlfriend.

So if she logged into the account while they were living together, or when she was at his house at any point, that might stay on his computer for a long time potentially.

I can say I've not changed my passwords for any number of online bills like cellphones, cable tv, or even banking in quite some time . (not safe, but I am sure I'm not alone on this one)

So, yes, I'd want to check those ip's. Because they potentially could be from a computer in the ex-boyfriends possession. Definitely I'd want to rule that out.

Maybe this kind of thing was checked, but I sure don't get the impression it did from anything we see/heard -- otherwise questions wouldn't remain still.
 
I found this interesting from the post above where ex-boyfriend is being questioned:

"Kratz: Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you heard your friend Teresa had gone missing?

Hillegas: Scott had called me and said that Teresa's dad had went over and asked if he had seen Teresa, and Scott called me and I went over to the house that afternoon and we printed off her cell phone records off the Internet."

He implies he first heard she was missing when Scott called him, but he doesn't leave his answer at when, but goes on to offer what he did, without being asked. IDK, just seemed odd to me.

Also, someone asked a great question a week or so ago, when the case was still "downstairs" that I thought was very intersting and would love to know the answer to. The question was wondering if the nuisance calls stopped after the 31st.
 
khaki said:
I found this interesting from the post above where ex-boyfriend is being questioned:

"Kratz: Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you heard your friend Teresa had gone missing?

Hillegas: Scott had called me and said that Teresa's dad had went over and asked if he had seen Teresa, and Scott called me and I went over to the house that afternoon and we printed off her cell phone records off the Internet."

He implies he first heard she was missing when Scott called him, but he doesn't leave his answer at when, but goes on to offer what he did, without being asked. IDK, just seemed odd to me.

Also, someone asked a great question a week or so ago, when the case was still "downstairs" that I thought was very intersting and would love to know the answer to. The question was wondering if the nuisance calls stopped after the 31st.
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Good point, although it seems we don't really have any record of nuisance calls. Only someone saying they happened.

Why we don't have phone records to shed light on this, not sure. It's a question that's been asked often. Maybe it gets answered in trial transcripts.


I don't find Hillegas offering more information as odd honestly. Some people ramble on. I do :)

But the fact that Scott calls Hillegas, maybe indicates that they likely believe he's someone who talks to her often ? right ?

So is it odd that he's not been calling her up till that point ? Even if not nuisance calls ? Or maybe he has, but we don't see those calls on the record ?

We do know that he was supposed to go to a party she was going to that night, or at least that is what I have read on here - I honestly don't know if that is truth or not.

But if she never made it to that party, would he call her ?

so many questions for him, and we'll never know imo - that boat has sailed.
 
MaxManning said:
You have to keep in mind that they were boyfriend and girlfriend.

So if she logged into the account while they were living together, or when she was at his house at any point, that might stay on his computer for a long time potentially.

I can say I've not changed my passwords for any number of online bills like cellphones, cable tv, or even banking in quite some time . (not safe, but I am sure I'm not alone on this one)

So, yes, I'd want to check those ip's. Because they potentially could be from a computer in the ex-boyfriends possession. Definitely I'd want to rule that out.

Maybe this kind of thing was checked, but I sure don't get the impression it did from anything we see/heard -- otherwise questions wouldn't remain still.
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Right.

Had he said, something to the effect of, "When we were dating, I knew she used various usernames, so I guessed her cingular would be one of those." Or, for that matter, had he stated that "she tended to use variations of her name and/or email name for her username," so he figured the cingular username would be along those lines. Instead, he indicated he guessed her username and password, without indicating how he came up with her username.

And yes, I admit, the smirk really put me off. It seemed like he was quite proud of himself that he was able to break into this woman's account. Which, under most circumstances, could be considered a federal crime under 18 U.S.C. 1030(a)(2).
 
My theory on the whole phone thing is that they probably made up a new password, using the password hints that they guessed answers to. Most of those hints are things a brother would likely know the answer to as well, like sisters' birthdays, mother's maiden name..etc. I don't think they "made up a username". It has only been within the past several years that Cingular (now ATT) had you choose a username. My user name was my cell phone number for years. Just as lots of sites use an email as username. The answers were vague that MH and a RV gave because I think they did not want to overtly admit they hacked her account.
 
If I recal correctly the VMs were deleted on November 2nd at 8:00 in the morning. It's my understanding her family didn't realize and report her missing until November 3rd which is the day her brother accessed her account. Obviously that can be viewed as nefarious because it could be construed as someone destroying evidence of their involvement in her disappearance/murder before anyone realized she was missing.

Add that to whoever was psycho-calling her prior to her death. It certainly wasn't Avery because the phone records would have shown that since she herself recognized the number. Couldn't have been him anyway since she was headed to Avery's place knowing, lo and behold, he would be there. The real question is who was making those psych-calls and when did they stop? Did the calls stop the day she went missing?
 
Cell phone company would still know who called as all calls are logged on the provider's network servers. Even if someone deleted voicemail messages the provider would know the source/identity of the phone number that left the voicemail.

Avery was said to use *67 in a few calls to TH. She would not know it was him calling, if that was him calling.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Cell phone company would still know who called as all calls are logged on the provider's network servers. Even if someone deleted voicemail messages the provider would know the source/identity of the phone number that left the voicemail.

Avery was said to use *67 in a few calls to TH. She would not know it was him calling, if that was him calling.
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His attornies could have warned him to do that to avoid having his number leaked to the press. And, when taken with the context that she was on her way to Avery's place and asked him to call her back means zip. If she were afraid of Avery she wouldn't have gone to Avery Salvage Yard.
 
Different, odd account regarding Ms. Halbach's cingular account:

On the Sunday before she disappeared, Hillegas ran into Teresa at a friend’s house. Halbach told him she planned to join her family at a bar in Appleton for a Halloween party. She was dressed as a cowgirl.

On Tuesday, Hillegas called to ask Halbach about the party. Her voicemail box was full. “Which was weird for someone with a business,” he says. “She’s not the kind of person who would just take off and not call.”

By Thursday, he knew something was wrong. With the help of a friend, he went to Teresa’s house, fired up her computer and printed out a list of names and phone numbers of everyone she knew. The search was on.​

Yet, from his court testimony:

Kratz: Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you heard your friend Teresa had gone missing?

Hillegas: Scott had called me and said that Teresa's dad had went over and asked if he had seen Teresa, and Scott called me and I went over to the house that afternoon and we printed off her cell phone records off the Internet.

Hillegas: Just to see, you know, calls she had made or, you know, if there were other numbers of friends that we could find on there.
​
 
shadowraiths said:
Different, odd account regarding Ms. Halbach's cingular account:

On the Sunday before she disappeared, Hillegas ran into Teresa at a friend’s house. Halbach told him she planned to join her family at a bar in Appleton for a Halloween party. She was dressed as a cowgirl.

On Tuesday, Hillegas called to ask Halbach about the party. Her voicemail box was full. “Which was weird for someone with a business,” he says. “She’s not the kind of person who would just take off and not call.”

By Thursday, he knew something was wrong. With the help of a friend, he went to Teresa’s house, fired up her computer and printed out a list of names and phone numbers of everyone she knew. The search was on.​

Yet, from his court testimony:

Kratz: Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you heard your friend Teresa had gone missing?

Hillegas: Scott had called me and said that Teresa's dad had went over and asked if he had seen Teresa, and Scott called me and I went over to the house that afternoon and we printed off her cell phone records off the Internet.

Hillegas: Just to see, you know, calls she had made or, you know, if there were other numbers of friends that we could find on there.
​
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I bet he never called her.
 
Sinsaint said:
If I recal correctly the VMs were deleted on November 2nd at 8:00 in the morning. It's my understanding her family didn't realize and report her missing until November 3rd which is the day her brother accessed her account. Obviously that can be viewed as nefarious because it could be construed as someone destroying evidence of their involvement in her disappearance/murder before anyone realized she was missing.

Add that to whoever was psycho-calling her prior to her death. It certainly wasn't Avery because the phone records would have shown that since she herself recognized the number. Couldn't have been him anyway since she was headed to Avery's place knowing, lo and behold, he would be there. The real question is who was making those psych-calls and when did they stop? Did the calls stop the day she went missing?
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I want an answer to this as well!
 
Tawny said:
I want an answer to this as well!
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The only way we'll get those answers is if years from now someone admits Kratz had the whole time but be never turned them over in discovery because the person placing those calls was never considered a suspect. I find it hard to believe the phone company didn't release ALL the records of her calls leading up to and after her disappearance. IF, and a huge if, they never requested all those records then LE and the prosecutor both are idiots. We already know the latter one is.
 
My understanding is there really wasn't enough known about the harassment calls. Apparently she considered someone calling her was bothersome....but it might have been her mom, boss, acquaintance, or a real unknown psycho. Chances are the number (log) would seem normal. The VMs themselves might have been revealing.

The timing is what is eyebrow raising. She had not been reported missing, yet. Yet, someone (seemingly) thought it prudent to remove VMs.

Plus, I found it telling (telling of what...not so sure) is apparently both the brother and ex/roommate independently hacked into her voicemail almost immediately after knowing she was missing.
 
Sinsaint said:
If I recal correctly the VMs were deleted on November 2nd at 8:00 in the morning. It's my understanding her family didn't realize and report her missing until November 3rd which is the day her brother accessed her account. Obviously that can be viewed as nefarious because it could be construed as someone destroying evidence of their involvement in her disappearance/murder before anyone realized she was missing.

Add that to whoever was psycho-calling her prior to her death. It certainly wasn't Avery because the phone records would have shown that since she herself recognized the number. Couldn't have been him anyway since she was headed to Avery's place knowing, lo and behold, he would be there. The real question is who was making those psych-calls and when did they stop? Did the calls stop the day she went missing?
Click to expand...

If the 11/2 deletion date is correct, then that fits my theory of ex-boyfriend, but even worse, that means he likely was aware she was missing... before being reported missing. ouch , right ?

Would be good to know this for sure.

If there was this psycho caller, what are the chances he would have her login/password to delete voicemails ? However, if the ex-boyfriend deleted those voicemails, there's a far better explanation for him having login/password.

Of course without voicemails, why would any calls by ex boyfriend made to teresa in the last month be regarded as harassing ? We clearly see that family/friends contacted him, because they know he kept contact with her ?

Would she tell her family/friends that ex-boyfriend was calling too much ? If she doesn't tell anyone, then maybe only some questionable voicemails could convince anyone of that. right ?
 
I think a big piece of missing information for this case is in these Deleted VMs and the harassing calls she was getting...
 
Sinsaint said:
His attornies could have warned him to do that to avoid having his number leaked to the press. And, when taken with the context that she was on her way to Avery's place and asked him to call her back means zip. If she were afraid of Avery she wouldn't have gone to Avery Salvage Yard.
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BBM How can you possibly know this? In my younger years there were a couple of people who made me really uncomfortable/wary that I still felt obligated to spend one-on-one time with in the course of my employment.
 
redheart said:
BBM How can you possibly know this? In my younger years there were a couple of people who made me really uncomfortable/wary that I still felt obligated to spend one-on-one time with in the course of my employment.
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Did she tell her boss that day that she didn't want to go? Did she sound upset/concerned/angry/fearful in her message to him? The bus driver saw her there taking pictures. Did the bus driver notice an signs she was in distress? And it's my understanding she was a freelance photographer. If she didn't want to take the assignment for any reason, she was under no obligation to do so.
 
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