Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[BaileyandBella]

I find it odd the neighbor was, in particular, mowing his lawn & washing his car on Father’s Day

I don't find it odd......they could have celebrated it the night before etc.

For me, being a mom...my husband often has to work on Mother's Day, so we just celebrate it another day.

 

[MasonJunior]

I don't find it odd......they could have celebrated it the night before etc.

For me, being a mom...my husband often has to work on Mother's Day, so we just celebrate it another day.

Hmmmm ~ you're from California with all the movers & the shakers. Hey. down here in quiet sectors of Florida we're retired, nearly old, or old. We do try to be considerate of our friends & neighbors.

 

[Leila]

Is it known if GA was home on the sunday evening of June 15th when CA returned home with Caylee from the NH? If not it's possible that the neighbors recollection of CA taking off in her car could have been that evening following a fight, especially one where she had put her hands around KC's neck. Maybe SHE left to cool off and was afraid at that point of being alone in the house with KC because CA didn't trust herself until she cooled down and cleared her head or she didn't want to be alone in the house with KC at that point because KC responded with physical force in turn. If CA did leave that evening AND GA wasn't home at the time, that could have been when KC took it out on Caylee... ~

Good point! It's known that George worked the 3:00pm to 11:00pm shift on June 15th. So if the fight occurred prior to 11:00pm, he probably wasn't home. Cindy could have left the residence to calm down and came home to find Casey and Caylee gone.

 

[onewick]

Hmmmm ~ you're from California with all the movers & the shakers. Hey. down here in quiet sectors of Florida we're retired, nearly old, or old. We do try to be considerate of our friends & neighbors.

And on the other hand most people work a 9 - 5 M - F, so mowing the lawn on a Sunday is not odd at all, Fathers Day or not. Thier neighborhood is not full of retirees, sorry, but this is absolutely possible.

 

[Starfish]

I find it odd the neighbor was, in particular, mowing his lawn & washing his car on Father’s Day ~ but then he has no reason to ‘make that up’? Father’s Day is a day families get together for dinner & togetherness. Out of respect, my neighbors will intentionally have their yards looking good for Sunday & consider it rude to run their lawn mowers [noise /pollen factor] while guest are visiting.

Also don't believe GA was the last to see KC & Caylee on Monday. (I swear this plot is loaded with shady characters.) GA said he only saw them leave. How could they avoid each other all morning? Think the house, according to tax records, only about 1500 sq ft. Not that big. Plus a child will want to go see what grandpa is doing. Not easy keeping a tot restrained all morning.

To a lot of people, father's day is just another day, nothing special. I buy my dad a gift, take it over & spend a few hours with him. Sometimes I take him & my mom out to eat, that's it, no big outdoor party. Also, sounds like you got yourself some exceptional neighbors. Mine could care less what I'm doing when they have time to cut their lawn.......of course I give them the same consideration. But to the defense of both my neighbors and myself, we're working people & cut our lawns when we find time to do so.

 

[RJOINNH]

I find it odd the neighbor was, in particular, mowing his lawn & washing his car on Father’s Day ~ but then he has no reason to ‘make that up’? Father’s Day is a day families get together for dinner & togetherness. Out of respect, my neighbors will intentionally have their yards looking good for Sunday & consider it rude to run their lawn mowers [noise /pollen factor] while guest are visiting.

Also don't believe GA was the last to see KC & Caylee on Monday. (I swear this plot is loaded with shady characters.) GA said he only saw them leave. How could they avoid each other all morning? Think the house, according to tax records, only about 1500 sq ft. Not that big. Plus a child will want to go see what grandpa is doing. Not easy keeping a tot restrained all morning.

Ok....it was Fathers Day.....family gets together during the day...after all it's Sunday....most people are off work.....celebrate with dad and family earlier in day so they can get home and prepare for week ahead with their immediate family. Therefore they would not be getting their yard work done during day.
Most people who work do their yard work on weekend.....in Florida more common to do later in day when temp has dropped some rather than in the early day heat.
If the fight occurred around 7pm or so it would fit right in with the neighbor hearing fight while mowing lawn or doing yard work.....why so many questions about this....it makes sense.
As for CA leaving the house that night ...good possibility....this could very well have been the time KC took out her anger on Caylee.

 

[Secretsolver]

I always thought GA was lying about seeing the girls leaving on the 16th at 12:50pm and that it was more likely 12:50am, when he was watching the repeat news after he got off of work at 11:00pm. I have always thought that CA convinced GA that 12:50 am and 12:50 pm weren't so far apart as to make any difference, since it was still 'technically' true because afterall it WAS the 16th at it WAS 12:50. ('not everything I told you is a lie' - Hmmm? Familiar?).


I remember CA stating "I know where SHE was, because I put her to bed".

The news here in Orlando on Ch 9, 6, 2 or FOX does not repeat. It is on at 10 for FOX and 11 for the other 3 and that's it. (Ch 9 used to repeat, but stopped a few years ago)

Personally, I think KC and CA fought earlier in the evening when Cindy got back from the Nursing Home. No doubt Cindy's Mother was talking about KC and the money, how KC couldn't be bothered to visit anymore, things like that. Maybe Caylee told Grandma Cindy what KC did when they were at all the parties. Maybe Cindy opened her trunk and Caylee said something like "My Mommy puts me in her trunk" causing Cindy to pump Caylee for more info.
By the time Cindy gets home, she is fuming and her and KC go to town and it gets ugly. Cindy tries to choke Casey, starts ranting at Casey the things that Caylee told her, and now Casey decides she needs to grab Caylee and does so.
Now she is really mad that Caylee told her Mother Cindy about all the shenanigans and mistreatment of the baby. Casey then takes her rage out on little Caylee. Casey puts the duct tape over her mouth telling her that the tape would keep her from telling Grandma anymore stories.
Caylee dies.
Casey shoves the body in the trunk util she figures out what to do.
She drives over to Sawgrass to visit her friend. Maybe in an effort to creat an alibi as to where she was. Her friend wasn't home but she did happen to see ZFG which causes her to think "Hey I've heard a name like that before"
(meaning the name of the corner neighbor on HopeSpring where the body would eventually be found)
Maybe when the apt manager was showing ZFG the apts, the manager had left the sign in card on the desk. Casey stopped in at the office and spots the card sitting on the desk and notes the name.

As far as Cindys claim that she personally tucked Caylee into bed that night, I don't think that ever happened. Cindy just claimed it did.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Good point! It's known that George worked the 3:00pm to 11:00pm shift on June 15th. So if the fight occurred prior to 11:00pm, he probably wasn't home. Cindy could have left the residence to calm down and came home to find Casey and Caylee gone.

That's a possibility, but in that case I would have expected Caylee to be found wearing PJ's which is probably what Cindy dressed her in after taking her in the pool.

We don't know if the neighbor even has kids or celebrates Father's day. At my house, we might have dinner or just a little get together, or with the kid's now being older we sometimes just get phone calls, but it's not a whole day event like Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Jesse says he heard Caylee's voice on the 16th. The pings show Casey at the house on the 16th. George says Casey and Caylee were there on the 16th. Lee has never said a word about Casey coming to his house on the 15th. George's story HURTS rather than helps Casey's case. No way would George or Cindy tell LP that Cindy forced George to lie. There is also no evidence, contrary to LP's claim, that Casey was at a motel on the night of the 15th. At this point I see no reason to believe that George lied.

 

[marlap]

That's a possibility, but in that case I would have expected Caylee to be found wearing PJ's which is probably what Cindy dressed her in after taking her in the pool.

We don't know if the neighbor even has kids or celebrates Father's day. At my house, we might have dinner or just a little get together, or with the kid's now being older we sometimes just get phone calls, but it's not a whole day event like Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Jesse says he heard Caylee's voice on the 16th. The pings show Casey at the house on the 16th. George says Casey and Caylee were there on the 16th. Lee has never said a word about Casey coming to his house on the 15th. George's story HURTS rather than helps Casey's case. No way would George or Cindy tell LP that Cindy forced George to lie. There is also no evidence, contrary to LP's claim, that Casey was at a motel on the night of the 15th. At this point I see no reason to believe that George lied.

I agree ChillWilly, I have always thought George was telling the truth about seeing Casey and Caylee leave on the 16th.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Good point! It's known that George worked the 3:00pm to 11:00pm shift on June 15th. So if the fight occurred prior to 11:00pm, he probably wasn't home. Cindy could have left the residence to calm down and came home to find Casey and Caylee gone.

Didn't George go to the nursing home with Cindy and Caylee? I've always thought he was with them because Caylee asks "Are you tired Papa?" Was she talking to Cindy's dad? I always thought it was George she was talking to.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Didn't George go to the nursing home with Cindy and Caylee? I've always thought he was with them because Caylee asks "Are you tired Papa?" Was she talking to Cindy's dad? I always thought it was George she was talking to.

No, it was just Cindy and Caylee. George was at work until 11:00. Caylee asked Cindy's father if he was tired.

 

[Friday]

Can someone please point me to anything reliable that indicates that on 6/15 Shirley P informed Cindy for the first time about Casey's latest theft? I want to ascertain that this was new news to Cindy on 6/15.

TIA.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Can someone please point me to anything reliable that indicates that on 6/15 Shirley P informed Cindy for the first time about Casey's theft? I want to ascertain that this was new news to Cindy on 6/15.

TIA.

From what I understand, Cindy had already replaced the money by that time. I can't recall where that information came from but I'll see if I can find it.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Ok....it was Fathers Day.....family gets together during the day...after all it's Sunday....most people are off work.....celebrate with dad and family earlier in day so they can get home and prepare for week ahead with their immediate family. Therefore they would not be getting their yard work done during day.
Most people who work do their yard work on weekend.....in Florida more common to do later in day when temp has dropped some rather than in the early day heat.
If the fight occurred around 7pm or so it would fit right in with the neighbor hearing fight while mowing lawn or doing yard work.....why so many questions about this....it makes sense.
As for CA leaving the house that night ...good possibility....this could very well have been the time KC took out her anger on Caylee.

I agree about the gardening later in the day....also, where I come from, where it also gets quite hot, we have water restrictions in place which prohibit people from watering their lawns during certain hours...perhaps FLA has the same?

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

That's a possibility, but in that case I would have expected Caylee to be found wearing PJ's which is probably what Cindy dressed her in after taking her in the pool.

We don't know if the neighbor even has kids or celebrates Father's day. At my house, we might have dinner or just a little get together, or with the kid's now being older we sometimes just get phone calls, but it's not a whole day event like Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Jesse says he heard Caylee's voice on the 16th. The pings show Casey at the house on the 16th. George says Casey and Caylee were there on the 16th. Lee has never said a word about Casey coming to his house on the 15th. George's story HURTS rather than helps Casey's case. No way would George or Cindy tell LP that Cindy forced George to lie. There is also no evidence, contrary to LP's claim, that Casey was at a motel on the night of the 15th. At this point I see no reason to believe that George lied.

Do you have a link for that? I thought he thought he heard her at some later date, but wasn't at all certain.

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Personally, I think KC and CA fought earlier in the evening when Cindy got back from the Nursing Home. No doubt Cindy's Mother was talking about KC and the money, how KC couldn't be bothered to visit anymore, things like that. Maybe Caylee told Grandma Cindy what KC did when they were at all the parties. Maybe Cindy opened her trunk and Caylee said something like "My Mommy puts me in her trunk" causing Cindy to pump Caylee for more info.
By the time Cindy gets home, she is fuming and her and KC go to town and it gets ugly. Cindy tries to choke Casey, starts ranting at Casey the things that Caylee told her, and now Casey decides she needs to grab Caylee and does so.

Now she is really mad that Caylee told her Mother Cindy about all the shenanigans and mistreatment of the baby. Casey then takes her rage out on little Caylee. Casey puts the duct tape over her mouth telling her that the tape would keep her from telling Grandma anymore stories.

(Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.)

I think this (bolded) is a very likely scenario. I can totally see Casey taping the mouth in a fit of anger over Caylee unintentionally tattling on her. The only issue I see with this is that if the fight were over Casey abusing (trunk, parties) Caylee, I don't think CA would have left. Angry or not, if the fight was about abusing Caylee, wouldn't CA want to keep her near? I would think that would just be an instinctual reaction, to want to keep her close and not leave her.

Of course, the fight where CA leaves that the neighbor recalls could be an entirely separate incident; but if that's the case, then she would be present while Casey was doing this. Unless you think she took off, drove somewhere more secluded, and then applied the tape? Help me out here, I like the "tape as angry response" theory, but I'm having trouble piecing together the timing. :waitasec:

 

[Chilly Willy]

Do you have a link for that? I thought he thought he heard her at some later date, but wasn't at all certain.

It's in his LE interview. He says he heard Caylee's voice when he talked on the phone with Casey at about 3:30 on the afternoon of the 16th. He also says that during a phone conversation on the 24th, he thought he heard Casey tell Caylee to get off the table. Later he said he wasn't sure about that event.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I find it odd the neighbor was, in particular, mowing his lawn & washing his car on Father’s Day ~ but then he has no reason to ‘make that up’? Father’s Day is a day families get together for dinner & togetherness. Out of respect, my neighbors will intentionally have their yards looking good for Sunday & consider it rude to run their lawn mowers [noise /pollen factor] while guest are visiting.

Also don't believe GA was the last to see KC & Caylee on Monday. (I swear this plot is loaded with shady characters.) GA said he only saw them leave. How could they avoid each other all morning? Think the house, according to tax records, only about 1500 sq ft. Not that big. Plus a child will want to go see what grandpa is doing. Not easy keeping a tot restrained all morning.

I don't find it odd at all. We don't know what the neighbors work schedule etc was, it may have been the only time in the week to get the mowing done. I can see family getting together for a nice Sunday dinner to celebrate Fathers Day and then things go back to the usual.
Usually we do seem to mow our yard on Saturday but there have been times it's been done on Sunday when we're to busy the day before to get it done and don't want it to wait through another week.
For whatever reason this person was outside, imo it's a good thing they were so there was an impartial witness to some of the goings on.

VB

 

[VickiInLongwood]

From the Cell Phone Ping analysis provided by Theonly1:

6/15
2:45 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey seems to be in area of AL until 2:45 p.m.
3:35 p.m. Casey Anthony cellphone pings Someone at Anthony house calls Casey's cellphone (37 seconds)
5:00 PM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey calls Anthony house 3.5 minutes
7:10 PM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey calls Anthony house
7:30 PM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey pinging from Anthony house

6/16
1:00 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Shows Casey pinging at or near the Anthony house during the morning hours
3:08 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey call to AL
7:45 AM Casey Anthony cellphone records Call from Anthony House Phone that goes into Casey's VM

I have always found it telling that soneone at the Anthony house called KC's cellphone at 7:45 am. I suspect it was Cindy looking for Casey when she discovered she was NOT home with Caylee. I think George was just confused when he thought he saw them leave together on the 16th. They all originally thought the 9th, so how could he be sure on the 16th date? I think he was confused, not necessarly lying.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't find it odd at all. We don't know what the neighbors work schedule etc was, it may have been the only time in the week to get the mowing done. I can see family getting together for a nice Sunday dinner to celebrate Fathers Day and then things go back to the usual.
Usually we do seem to mow our yard on Saturday but there have been times it's been done on Sunday when we're to busy the day before to get it done and don't want it to wait through another week.
For whatever reason this person was outside, imo it's a good thing they were so there was an impartial witness to some of the goings on.

VB

It's difficult for me to believe, after reading the neighbor's tale of the two fights he witnessed, that Cindy choked Casey. I think it was more likely the other way around if it happened at all.