Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[weasel]

<<I have always found it telling that soneone at the Anthony house called KC's cellphone at 7:45 am. I suspect it was Cindy looking for Casey when she discovered she was NOT home with Caylee. I think George was just confused when he thought he saw them leave together on the 16th. They all originally thought the 9th, so how could he be sure on the 16th date? I think he was confused, not necessarly lying.>>

<<respectfully snipped>>

This makes alot of sense. It is rather telling that someone called Casey's cell at 7:45 AM from the A house. I think you're pretty much right on about GA, too. I've always thought he is either confused about what day he saw Casey and Caylee leaving or he is just outright lying ..... as directed by CA. I have always been of the opinion that CA and Casey had a blowout and Casey scooped up Caylee and split with her and that's the last anyone besides Casey saw of Caylee.

 

[Friday]

Friday, you might be interested in what Ryan P. passed along to Yuri during his first interview. He said in late May, 2008 (Ryan describes it as about three weeks before Caylee went missing), Cindy called him while he is at school. She is upset and wants to warn Ryan he should probably stay away from KC - actually uses the word 'sociopath' with Ryan to describe KC. Tells Ryan she stole money from Cindy's parents. Asks him about some of the things KC has told her that she suspects are lies. This is when Cindy learns from Ryan that KC never worked at Sport's Authority. (evidence p. 164)

Hmmm. Very, very interesting. I'd forgotten this.

I've read every page of every document, in every document dump and jotted notes everywhere, but lately I find myself losing track of some of the silken threads that have been woven into this vast spidery web. (apologies for purple prose here, but I'm working and it's my job. LOL)

Back to our topic: Now that you've reminded me of Cindy's call to Ryan, I remember thinking it was vile of Cindy to phone her daughter's friend and tell him all those things. IMHO, it is particularly ugly--even disturbing--behavior coming from a self-described "excellent mother." Cindy seems to have some odd standards of excellence in motherhood because she viciously maligned KC to TonE when she met him on July 15, and also to AH when she picked up AH at the mall earlier that day.

I'm not saying Cindy didn't have plenty of legitimate reasons to be angry with KC, but Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing when she informed Tony in his apartment that KC would steal him blind and then dump him (paraphrased from memory only).

At that point, Cindy had no right, and no reason, to say something so vicious to her daughter's new boyfriend.

Earlier that afternoon when she verbally flayed KC to Amy in the car, Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing or that KC had stolen her checkbook.

At that point, Cindy knew only that KC had lied to her about being out of town (nothing new there) and that KC hadn't let Cindy see Caylee for a month (which was well within KC's rights as a grown woman and as Caylee's mother.) In return for that, Cindy felt entitled to humiliate and condemn KC to KC's friends and to attempt to have her falsely arrested on a trumped-up car theft story! All in the same day.

I don't like to make openly harsh judgments about Cindy because she's already suffering horribly for any mistakes she might have made. No human being alive should have to endure what Cindy is now. (Well, okay KC should.) It's also self-defeating to pretend none of this is true if we really want to understand what might have led up to such a tragedy as this.

IMHO, of course.

 

[MasonJunior]

The 7:45am call to KC's cell is definitely interesting, but Cindy will explain that way. Saying she just wanted to leave KC a message on her voice mail and knew the phone would be likely charging so it wouldn't wake them. You know "Don't forget lasagna for dinner tonight." or "Don't forget Caylee wants to wear her new bathing suite today." Something normal like that.

***Double Whoa*** 7:45am call definitely interesting. Check back to past months if CA repeatedly left early morning messages.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The neighbor's account of the fights he witnessed is quite different than what you're describing. He says that Cindy was very quiet and it was Casey doing all the ranting. What is your basis for saying that Cindy probably did very horrible things during fights?

The witness acount could be different because of several reasons. He didn't hear Cindy due to Casey being basically a screamer and Cindy can probably cut you to the quick without raising her voice as much? Could it have been because of where the fight was taking place and which way they were facing to allow the sound to carry? If Casey were choked as allegedly happened, her response could have been to turn the tables on Cindy at that point...where Cindy was quiet and Casey was screaming at her. It could have given Casey the upper hand, so to speak.

My basis for questioning what Cindy may do in a fight, I answered in the next sentence.

 

[Friday]

Friday, you might be interested in what Ryan P. passed along to Yuri during his first interview. He said in late May, 2008 (Ryan describes it as about three weeks before Caylee went missing), Cindy called him while he is at school. She is upset and wants to warn Ryan he should probably stay away from KC - actually uses the word 'sociopath' with Ryan to describe KC. Tells Ryan she stole money from Cindy's parents. Asks him about some of the things KC has told her that she suspects are lies. This is when Cindy learns from Ryan that KC never worked at Sport's Authority. (evidence p. 164)

Referring to my last (long) reply, part of what sent me off on that Cindy-tangent was that I've always had the impression Ryan P was very important to KC and possibly "the guy that got away." It's just a hunch. Also in one of the taped jail visits, doesn't Cindy ask KC if she'd like to see Ryan (among a couple others). IIRC (no, make that IINIT -- "If I'm Not Imagining Things") KC lights up at his name and says yes. If I'm correct about all this, then it was doubly mean of Cindy to choose Ryan, of all people, to lambast KC to. And yeah, I know that sentence ends with a preposition. LOL

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

The witness acount could be different because of several reasons. He didn't hear Cindy due to Casey being basically a screamer and Cindy can probably cut you to the quick without raising her voice as much? Could it have been because of where the fight was taking place and which way they were facing to allow the sound to carry? If Casey were choked as allegedly happened, her response could have been to turn the tables on Cindy at that point...where Cindy was quiet and Casey was screaming at her. It could have given Casey the upper hand, so to speak.

My basis for questioning what Cindy may do in a fight, I answered in the next sentence.

Bolded by me



You could be right. Cindy just gets quieter and quieter. I noticed this in the video-taped interactions between the two women and in the first call from the jail. Infact, when confronted by a protestor, Cindy just got quieter. I don't like Cindy, but I'm not sure we've ever heard raise her voice.

Oh - except for the 911 calls.

 

[Friday]

I don't see what difference it would make if KC and CA did have a fight on the 15th. I suppose the case could be made that it goes to motive but it doesn't change the evidence in any way. The only thing that could upset the apple cart on is insisting that the baby was killed on the 15th - it would make the LE's timeline off an entire day.

It makes a difference only in trying to assess whether Caylee's death most likely occurred as the result of KC's carelessness, cold premeditation, or an act of rage and/or revenge against Cindy. This last is where I've been leaning all along, but if there was no fight between KC and CA, I'd have to back off from that.

 

[reeseeva]

Hmmm. Very, very interesting. I'd forgotten this.

I've read every page of every document, in every document dump and jotted notes everywhere, but lately I find myself losing track of some of the silken threads that have been woven into this vast spidery web. (apologies for purple prose here, but I'm working and it's my job. LOL)

Back to our topic: Now that you've reminded me of Cindy's call to Ryan, I remember thinking it was vile of Cindy to phone her daughter's friend and tell him all those things. IMHO, it is particularly ugly--even disturbing--behavior coming from a self-described "excellent mother." Cindy seems to have some odd standards of excellence in motherhood because she viciously maligned KC to TonE when she met him on July 15, and also to AH when she picked up AH at the mall earlier that day.I'm not saying Cindy didn't have plenty of legitimate reasons to be angry with KC, but Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing when she informed Tony in his apartment that KC would steal him blind and then dump him (paraphrased from memory only).

At that point, Cindy had no right, and no reason, to say something so vicious to her daughter's new boyfriend.
Earlier that afternoon when she verbally flayed KC to Amy in the car, Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing or that KC had stolen her checkbook.

At that point, Cindy knew only that KC had lied to her about being out of town (nothing new there) and that KC hadn't let Cindy see Caylee for a month (which was well within KC's rights as a grown woman and as Caylee's mother.) In return for that, Cindy felt entitled to humiliate and condemn KC to KC's friends and to attempt to have her falsely arrested on a trumped-up car theft story! All in the same day.

I don't like to make openly harsh judgments about Cindy because she's already suffering horribly for any mistakes she might have made. No human being alive should have to endure what Cindy is now. (Well, okay KC should.)

IMHO, of course.

Bold is mine,
Great post Friday, This is where I feel Cindy lets ALL of these past transgressions, from KC, come to a head, instead of dealing head-on with them. There is a pattern of this, as I am re-listening to George's FBI tapes, etc. Jesse G also spoke of how Cindy would just trash KC in front of him, asking how can you be with her? (Munchausen By Proxy comes to mind) Was she alienating all of KC's friends so she would only have CA?? Why not make the effort to guide her to be a responsible & better person, instead of turning a blindeye to everything???:waitasec: Humiliation of your child in front of their friends, is TABOO in my opinion, & extremely demoralizing.

I now wonder if this may be why CA never knew of RM, Amy, AL, etc....KC, instead made up relationships with Jeff H. & others, never bringing anyone home. Why?

 

[JWG]

Referring to my last (long) reply, part of what sent me off on that Cindy-tangent was that I've always had the impression Ryan P was very important to KC and possibly "the guy that got away." It's just a hunch. Also in one of the taped jail visits, doesn't Cindy ask KC if she'd like to see Ryan (among a couple others). IIRC (no, make that IINIT -- "If I'm Not Imagining Things") KC lights up at his name and says yes. If I'm correct about all this, then it was doubly mean of Cindy to choose Ryan, of all people, to lambast KC to. And yeah, I know that sentence ends with a preposition. LOL

In the same interview Yuri and Ryan discuss the possibly of Ryan visiting KC to see if he could possibly get some information out of her. Also in that interview Ryan says essentially KC will be tough to break, that she can be a real "hard *advertiser censored*".

Also, in one of Jesse's interviews he describes an incident in which Cindy "threw KC under the bus" with him right there. It would be interesting to know when all of this started...how young was KC?

 

[Chilly Willy]

Hmmm. Very, very interesting. I'd forgotten this.

I've read every page of every document, in every document dump and jotted notes everywhere, but lately I find myself losing track of some of the silken threads that have been woven into this vast spidery web. (apologies for purple prose here, but I'm working and it's my job. LOL)

Back to our topic: Now that you've reminded me of Cindy's call to Ryan, I remember thinking it was vile of Cindy to phone her daughter's friend and tell him all those things. IMHO, it is particularly ugly--even disturbing--behavior coming from a self-described "excellent mother." Cindy seems to have some odd standards of excellence in motherhood because she viciously maligned KC to TonE when she met him on July 15, and also to AH when she picked up AH at the mall earlier that day.

I'm not saying Cindy didn't have plenty of legitimate reasons to be angry with KC, but Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing when she informed Tony in his apartment that KC would steal him blind and then dump him (paraphrased from memory only).

At that point, Cindy had no right, and no reason, to say something so vicious to her daughter's new boyfriend.

Earlier that afternoon when she verbally flayed KC to Amy in the car, Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing or that KC had stolen her checkbook.

At that point, Cindy knew only that KC had lied to her about being out of town (nothing new there) and that KC hadn't let Cindy see Caylee for a month (which was well within KC's rights as a grown woman and as Caylee's mother.) In return for that, Cindy felt entitled to humiliate and condemn KC to KC's friends and to attempt to have her falsely arrested on a trumped-up car theft story! All in the same day.

I don't like to make openly harsh judgments about Cindy because she's already suffering horribly for any mistakes she might have made. No human being alive should have to endure what Cindy is now. (Well, okay KC should.)

IMHO, of course.

I disagree with the part I turned red. Just hours earlier Cindy had just picked up the car at the Tow yard - at a cost of $500 or so, and learned that Casey had been lying to her all along with this elaborate story about being in Tampa for work with Zanny. Cindy didn't even know of Tony's existence until Amy helped her locate Casey. Cindy was furious with Casey, so furious that she drove Casey straight to the police station. Was she wrong to bring this all out in front of Tony? Possibly. But considering her rage at that point I can understand it.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Bold is mine,
Great post Friday, This is where I feel Cindy lets ALL of these past transgressions, from KC, come to a head, instead of dealing head-on with them. There is a pattern of this, as I am re-listening to George's FBI tapes, etc. Jesse G also spoke of how Cindy would just trash KC in front of him, asking how can you be with her? (Munchausen By Proxy comes to mind) Was she alienating all of KC's friends so she would only have CA?? Why not make the effort to guide her to be a responsible & better person, instead of turning a blindeye to everything???:waitasec: Humiliation of your child in front of their friends, is TABOO in my opinion, & extremely demoralizing.

I now wonder if this may be why CA never knew of RM, Amy, AL, etc....KC, instead made up relationships with Jeff H. & others, never bringing anyone home. Why?

Casey couldn't bring those new friends home - she couldn't risk having them share stories with Cindy and George. "What do you mean Casey was with you at Fusion last night? I thought she was working a special event for Universal."

 

[tx_Dot]

Hmmm. Very, very interesting. I'd forgotten this.

I've read every page of every document, in every document dump and jotted notes everywhere, but lately I find myself losing track of some of the silken threads that have been woven into this vast spidery web. (apologies for purple prose here, but I'm working and it's my job. LOL)

Back to our topic: Now that you've reminded me of Cindy's call to Ryan, I remember thinking it was vile of Cindy to phone her daughter's friend and tell him all those things. IMHO, it is particularly ugly--even disturbing--behavior coming from a self-described "excellent mother." Cindy seems to have some odd standards of excellence in motherhood because she viciously maligned KC to TonE when she met him on July 15, and also to AH when she picked up AH at the mall earlier that day.

I'm not saying Cindy didn't have plenty of legitimate reasons to be angry with KC, but Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing when she informed Tony in his apartment that KC would steal him blind and then dump him (paraphrased from memory only).

At that point, Cindy had no right, and no reason, to say something so vicious to her daughter's new boyfriend.

Earlier that afternoon when she verbally flayed KC to Amy in the car, Cindy didn't know Caylee was missing or that KC had stolen her checkbook.

At that point, Cindy knew only that KC had lied to her about being out of town (nothing new there) and that KC hadn't let Cindy see Caylee for a month (which was well within KC's rights as a grown woman and as Caylee's mother.) In return for that, Cindy felt entitled to humiliate and condemn KC to KC's friends and to attempt to have her falsely arrested on a trumped-up car theft story! All in the same day.

I don't like to make openly harsh judgments about Cindy because she's already suffering horribly for any mistakes she might have made. No human being alive should have to endure what Cindy is now. (Well, okay KC should.)

IMHO, of course.

My bold....

Let's not forget the A's had been out 500 bucks that day to get the car back, & also Cindy's had time to start sorting thru all the KC lies she's heard the last month.......

I woulda been pizzed too by the time I caught up with KC.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I still cannot figure out why Cindy did not storm into Tony's apartment and go from room to room to see if there were ANY signs of Caylee. She did not question Tony or the roomate about Caylee either.

She felt comfortable enough to say the other things, but not to ask anything about her grandaughter?! Why not?!

 

[Chilly Willy]

I still cannot figure out why Cindy did not storm into Tony's apartment and go from room to room to see if there were ANY signs of Caylee. She did not question Tony or the roomate about Caylee either.

She felt comfortable enough to say the other things, but not to ask anything about her grandaughter?! Why not?!

Is there a statement from either Tony or the roomate saying that Cindy never asked where Caylee was?

 

[Friday]

Friday, this week's NE reports that Lee was present during the fight and witnessed Cindy's hands around Casey's throat. It further states that Lee heard Cindy threaten to throw Casey out and keep Caylee, and Lee broke up the fight. Article also states that Lee gave this information to LE. Many here have pointed out that NE has correctly reported facts in other cases. IDK, just stating what I have read myself.

Thanks for the info. At first I couldn't figure out what NE stood for. <laughing at self>

I've never bought or even read the NE, but I understand NE has pulled off some major successes lately in investigative reporting. That said, I hope they're right about this.

Do we know for certain (or have reason to assume) that Lee has given other statements to LE that haven't been made public yet? It's difficult for me to imagine that Lee has "ratted" Cindy out about an ugly brawl she steadfastly insists never happened--and now he's moved into her house with her???

Very weird. Which, in this case, probably makes it "very likely." :crazy:

 

[tehcloser]

I still cannot figure out why Cindy did not storm into Tony's apartment and go from room to room to see if there were ANY signs of Caylee. She did not question Tony or the roomate about Caylee either.

She felt comfortable enough to say the other things, but not to ask anything about her grandaughter?! Why not?!

Excellent question. I know what I think....but wonder what some others would have to say.

 

[Mom of Five]

I still cannot figure out why Cindy did not storm into Tony's apartment and go from room to room to see if there were ANY signs of Caylee. She did not question Tony or the roomate about Caylee either.

She felt comfortable enough to say the other things, but not to ask anything about her grandaughter?! Why not?!

I have often wondered the same thing. I wish LE had asked Cindy this.

 

[reeseeva]

In the same interview Yuri and Ryan discuss the possibly of Ryan visiting KC to see if he could possibly get some information out of her. Also in that interview Ryan says essentially KC will be tough to break, that she can be a real "hard *advertiser censored*".

Also, in one of Jesse's interviews he describes an incident in which Cindy "threw KC under the bus" with him right there. It would be interesting to know when all of this started...how young was KC?

I just previously posted the same, & it was when they were working at Universal together.

JWG, I'm on Part 4 of the FBI interviews with George, where he is speaking about this. LE asks him why didn't he just demand to know about her not working, stealing from CA's bank account, Caylee's savings acct, Caylee's piggy bank, making out false deposit slips, using CA's credit cards to pay her $400 cell phone bill, on & on. George says he continuously brought it up to Cindy, also suspecting that KC didn't have a job, & Cindy would make excuses for her. Alot of posters here say it is hard to correct a child with behavioral disorders, & difficult to live with, but I'm increasingly seeing that Cindy didn't try correct KC, otherwise enabling her to be co-dependent on Cindy.

 

[Friday]

Friday, this week's NE reports that Lee was present during the fight and witnessed Cindy's hands around Casey's throat. It further states that Lee heard Cindy threaten to throw Casey out and keep Caylee, and Lee broke up the fight. Article also states that Lee gave this information to LE. Many here have pointed out that NE has correctly reported facts in other cases. IDK, just stating what I have read myself.

Just thought of another reason to question this info--the neighbor who heard the fight while working on his lawn didn't mention seeing Lee's car at the A home at that time. Unless, of course, LE edited that fact out to use at trial??

 

[Friday]

Yeah, she describes the same outfit (minus the backpack + sunglasses). But KC puts the date at 6/9, not 6/15...

You're a champ. As always.