Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 3

[LiveLaughLuv]

Im pretty sure there was a fight...if we go by Jean Couty, he witnesses at least two, one in April and one in June. The problem is he didn't pin it down to the night of the 15th. Allegedly that story came from Jesse Grund. But Ive never seen it in a transcript. Then there is the supposed reason for the fight. Shirley Plesea claims the theft from her husband's account happened in either April or May and would seem Cindy knew back then.

Im not saying there wasnt a fight on the 15th..... I just havent seen anything in the discovery that gives credit to this date as opposed to the 14th or the 7th or even that pesky 9th. And it seems she didnt mention anything to T Lazzaro during their lengthy phone conversations into the wee small hours. Doesn't sound like drama queen Casey ....at least to me.
:truce:

It probably didn't hit SP's bank statement until June...I want to hear this from CA's mouth, not that we'd get the truth but I'm selfish like that, I want CA to admit this happened but I won't hold my breath...

Seems LA told JG who in turn told LE. I see this as being the straw that broke the camels back...only, she took it out on Caylee and not her mother, CA. ICA is a coward, she's not a woman much less a mother. I do believe ICA did care for Caylee (not love, she doesn't understand the meaning), until precious Caylee started to walk and talk and take all the attention away from ICA. I also feel Caylee did gravitate towards her grandmother, there's nothing like a grandmoters love, and this infuriated ICA.

Horrible this child was used like a pawn in a chess game. Poor Caylee must have been so confused...I can only imagine the volatile happenings in that home that Caylee witnessed. Seems to have been discord there for a long while. If it wasn't from GA, it was from ICA..

ICA followed in her fathers footsteps with all the conning, the manipulations, (the laziness, no job, no money) to the people she called friends..I remember reading how shocked TonyL was. How he thought he and ICA were so much alike with interest in the same things. How she could juggle being a full time student, have a job and being a mother to Caylee... ICA has fooled alot of people...I believe it stops there for she will not fool the jury....I hope they have lots of common sense and apply it here. JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[The World According]

I remember very early on George saying in a television interview, that Caylee and his daughter were moving out. This was on the last day he saw them. He was the only one being interviewed. Cindy wasn't present. It wasn't a local news station but a national news source. Obviously, his story has changed since then. I wish I had the clip. I will try and located it for you all to see.

Yes, I think the argument the night of the 15th included then I am leaving and I am taking Caylee with ME, from Casey.

That story changed many times, first it was that they simply left for a NORMAL day of work, other times it was they moved, other times they took a holiday to bond, it was a fluid story alright. In the words of my hero, Mark Klass , "The truth does not change".In one of her letters doesn't she say something to the effect of now the bit== knows how it feels?
IMO it is likely she was planning to kill both mom and pop if those computer searches are hers. She was planting seeds for others to think the two were divorcing, fighting over infidelity,etc. If those two had life insurance policies perhpahs a murder suicide would effectuate her and Amy being roommates in the home her mother gave her, she inherited.
One doesn't need to learn neck breaking and household weapons to subdue a two year old little toddler,eh?
I will try to search for your clip friend. I just googled it and found this reference to her moving out. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2162731/casey_anthony_case_caylee_disappears.html

Once Casey announced she wanted her friend to adopt the baby, of course hindsight tells us it would have been wise for Cindy to legally adopt the baby. That didn't happen, but if someone says they don't want their child, I believe them!
Tracey tells how Casey could not bear for anyone to coo over Caylee's photos without getting out photos of her own birthday parties from childhood. She was unable to let Caylee be in a spotlight rather than herself and seemed to see it as a very odd competition. She was deeply troubled, imo and yes, given an opportunity, if she thought she could get by with it, I can imagine her doing some messed up things regarding a newborn. Sadly. She gives us a lot of inside information about Casey Anthony from a far different rose colored view point of mom and pop
http://www.google.com/search?q=trac...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQqwQwAA

 

[Macushla]

I have always thought that one of the reasons for the fight (if there was one) was the fact that Cindy spent the day with Caylee. Caylee was starting to verbalize much more and to make more 'sense' at that time. I can see Cindy chatting with Caylee coming home in the car and asking her things just to pass the time. I think Caylee indicated or actually 'said' something at that point that in some way ratted KC out. I don't think Cindy would have reacted badly to many things, but if Caylee was able to tell her that mommy left her somewhere 'bad' or in the car, or something along those lines, that would have enraged Cindy and lead to her confronting KC.

 

[LancelotLink]

I remember very early on George saying in a television interview, that Caylee and his daughter were moving out. This was on the last day he saw them. He was the only one being interviewed. Cindy wasn't present. It wasn't a local news station but a national news source. Obviously, his story has changed since then. I wish I had the clip. I will try and located it for you all to see.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao8Z2L8KN-I&NR=1[/ame]

Merry Christmas!!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I have always thought that one of the reasons for the fight (if there was one) was the fact that Cindy spent the day with Caylee. Caylee was starting to verbalize much more and to make more 'sense' at that time. I can see Cindy chatting with Caylee coming home in the car and asking her things just to pass the time. I think Caylee indicated or actually 'said' something at that point that in some way ratted KC out. I don't think Cindy would have reacted badly to many things, but if Caylee was able to tell her that mommy left her somewhere 'bad' or in the car, or something along those lines, that would have enraged Cindy and lead to her confronting KC.

I will take this one step further. I think Cindy GRILLED Caylee on the way home and flung what she found out right in Casey's face during the argument. Tell me about Zanny: Blank stare. And do you play with Zanny's dog: zero. What do you do during the day with Mommy: Listen to music and dance and talk on the phone and have a sleep. What do you do when you leave with Mommy: Sit in the car and come back....etc.

Caylee was old enough to tell on Casey IMO.

 

[LambChop]

Obviously if GA said Casey and Caylee were moving out there had to have been a fight. Why else would KC suddenly leave without her clothes, bed, Caylee's things, etc.? I mean when your child is moving you go see the apartment with them, go shopping to Bed, Bath, Beyond, go through your household items to check for duplicates to give them. You do not just let them move without helping them out in some way unless there is a major situation. KC had no job, no money, no where to live. And the A's did nothing to try and stop her. Major fight here, major to the point that KC was bound to start a new life but without the child.

The day of the gas can incident. GA did not try to find out where KC was staying. If KC had "just moved out" there would have been no issues with her telling them where she was. BIG RED FLAG HERE!!!!! jmo

 

[my2sense]

Obviously if GA said Casey and Caylee were moving out there had to have been a fight. Why else would KC suddenly leave without her clothes, bed, Caylee's things, etc.? I mean when your child is moving you go see the apartment with them, go shopping to Bed, Bath, Beyond, go through your household items to check for duplicates to give them. You do not just let them move without helping them out in some way unless there is a major situation. KC had no job, no money, no where to live. And the A's did nothing to try and stop her. Major fight here, major to the point that KC was bound to start a new life but without the child.

The day of the gas can incident. GA did not try to find out where KC was staying. If KC had "just moved out" there would have been no issues with her telling them where she was. BIG RED FLAG HERE!!!!! jmo

BBM I just watched the clip, and it wasn't actually George who said that; it was the news anchor. She may have misunderstood/mis-spoke. It's details like this - when the press use the wrong words - that complicates things for us WSers who are trying to get to the truth

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

So, did ICA leave with Caylee to bond or to her own apartment? Where's the lease agreement if she had an apartment to go to...NO, big time NO...more lies....these lies seem to flow so easy out of the mouths of these parents. This is what happens when you lie, you cannot remember the first lie told so you snowball a whole bunch to try an confuse people...This was not the plan. The original plan was for CA, ICA and Caylee take a vacation so all three can bond...then this alleged fight happens and ICA took Caylee to bond? With who, this imaginanny? ICA had this all covered...She told CA that Zani has clothes at her home for Caylee, shoes, everything for her child...

At first I truly believed this might be the case. That a Zani did exist and took Caylee from ICA because she saw how Caylee was being mistreated...but LE looked endlessly for this alleged person and found nothing...so, the second theory had to be hatched...that ICA went off to her own apartment..yeah, with no job and no money...each time these people open their mouths, there's another nail banged into ICA's coffin...Keep talking folks, you're doing a good job for Caylee's justice...JMHO

What these folks are fogetting is the human decomp event that took place in ICA's pontiac, this came as early as August 2008...GA/CA know what they smelled from the car, heck he even drove home in that putrid smell...which was Caylee...how do these people sleep at night..Poor Caylee, she still doesn't have anyone in her corner from this family, they really should be ashamed of themselves for surrounding the wagon on ICA and pushing Caylee further out of their minds...how do they sleep! JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Aedrys]

I agree, I am not seeing much planning in this at all. If she had planned it, she would have had a plan for disposal, which obviously she did not.

Yes she did. Her plan was her family - mom, dad, and Lee - to help her sweep this under the rug like it wasn't a big deal. Mom and pop had cleaned up everything else in her life, why not this? And Lo and behold, who tries to find the body first but mom and pop. They did exactly what she thought they would do, help her cover it up, but they weren't fast enough and relied on a fake psychic and a detective who got his credentials from a cereal box. For once, this wasn't an easy sweep under the rug kind of thing like it was in the past with other things she did.

I do think she was planning to off her parents and then maybe Caylee. Honestly, she probably gravitated between who to kill first. Unfortunately, Caylee became such a bone of contention that Casey had to deal with her before her parents. I'm sure she fantasized about life without Caylee before that, and thought her family would help her cover this so she could go on with her life. But the fact that she tried to make Caylee look like a kidnap victim and even went as far as to involved an invisible nanny tells me she was definitely thinking about this beforehand. Remember, this is Casey - she only thinks ten minutes at a time. For her to come up with this scenario she thought would work would take more than ten minutes of thinking. I think she was going to do the kidnap scenario at some point anyway, or was really seriously thinking about going through with it, and then the fight happened, and she felt she had no choice anymore.

So yes, she planned this - not for the moment it happened, but it was planned. This was something swimming around her head for a long time. In fact, she might not have had an exact time for this to happen, but I know that plan was there. I think she only sedated Caylee before that. This time was the first and only time duct tape came into play. And the fact that she didn't bother to go back to the car until the next afternoon further cements that she wanted to make sure Caylee was dead. Why else leave her for that long in a hot car? No one can survive that.

Casey did care - for herself. Who was getting in the way of her happiness? Who was causing her money flow to be stopped? Who had to go so Casey could get her life back? Caylee. Casey cared enough for herself to murder that child and get the spotlight back on Casey.

 

[drip~drop]

Agree, the 16th is the day. I think it's highly likely that Cindy put her foot down after the fight, so when Casey made her little calls the next day trying to get her or anyone else to mind Caylee the calls were ignored. Casey (still angered from what had been said and done during the fight) decided her motherhood had curbed her social life for the last time, and also decided to make the final move in her game of one-upmanship with Cindy, and the civilized world, and the rest is history.

Enter guilt and denial for Cindy.

Too bad Casey didn't call me. I would have literally flown on my wings to get her.

 

[LambChop]

BBM I just watched the clip, and it wasn't actually George who said that; it was the news anchor. She may have misunderstood/mis-spoke. It's details like this - when the press use the wrong words - that complicates things for us WSers who are trying to get to the truth

Nor did GA deny it. The news anchor may not have misspoken because we do not know what information she had prior to the interview. The A's made no attempt to see if Caylee was being cared for. They assumed she was with KC (as CA stated) but where and with whom while KC was (hummm) working. CA's Myspace page reflects someone who is trying to find out where her granddaughter is.

You are right about trying to get to the truth but sadly "the truth and the A's are strangers". We can only use what we see and know as facts. But I still say something happened that night in June because you just don't let your child move out without knowing where they are (at least for a couple of months until you are use to the fact that they no longer live with you). It's human nature if you care about your children.

The child ended up dead. The result of a "whim", or was it the aftermath of a huge blowup between CA and KC where KC decided to take the one thing that meant the most in CA's life, Caylee. CA said it herself when KC was arrested (paraphrased), "I don't care about KC right now, I want Caylee."

If you think about there being a fight, everything falls into place as a motive for the child dying shortly afterwards. It's a motive. CA will never admit it because it is the motive. jmo

 

[believe09]

FWIW and my 2 cents, duct tape was over Caylee's eyes because they were open after she died. And Casey could not stand it...only in the movies do people die with their eyes closed. I think the rest might have come later if only to support the kidnapping theory or to prevent leakage.

I have said this many times, but I hope that being in the car for Casey was like the story the tell tale heart....and then she drops the car, with it's terrible mess, in view of the A's when both went to and from work.....if they had been looking, they would have seen it. A slap in her parents face, imo. Another little jab.

 

[LambChop]

FWIW and my 2 cents, duct tape was over Caylee's eyes because they were open after she died. And Casey could not stand it...only in the movies do people die with their eyes closed. I think the rest might have come later if only to support the kidnapping theory or to prevent leakage.

I have said this many times, but I hope that being in the car for Casey was like the story the tell tale heart....and then she drops the car, with it's terrible mess, in view of the A's when both went to and from work.....if they had been looking, they would have seen it. A slap in her parents face, imo. Another little jab.

BBM: Oh my, right where GA always cashed his paycheck. Never thought about that...... And didn't KC tell Amy that her DAD HAD RUN OVER SOMETHNG and TonE that her Dad was picking up the car to get it fixed. Could she have thought DAD would find the car, take it home and clean it up for her and that would have solved the problem? Could she have left the trash in the trunk to explain the smell if GA asked about it? Kind of makes sense now why she picked Amscot..... oh, my! jmo

 

[believe09]

I realize that my post was O/T-I believe that Casey killed Caylee on 6/16 as well after the big fight...but I am betting she was sitting in the driveway of the house when she did it. I also believe she brought Caylee back to bury her in the backyard of her parents house...barring that, she dumped her in the pet cemetary and left the car and it's smell where she did.


Know what floors me? That they (the A's) went into automatic pilot-Cindy washed everything, George details the car.

 

[beach]

Know what floors me? That they (the A's) went into automatic pilot-Cindy washed everything, George details the car.

--respectfully snipped

Ain't that the truth?! Auto-pilot. They just did what came naturally. Unbelievable.

 

[LambChop]

I realize that my post was O/T-I believe that Casey killed Caylee on 6/16 as well after the big fight...but I am betting she was sitting in the driveway of the house when she did it. I also believe she brought Caylee back to bury her in the backyard of her parents house...barring that, she dumped her in the pet cemetary and left the car and it's smell where she did.


Know what floors me? That they (the A's) went into automatic pilot-Cindy washed everything, George details the car.

As, of course, KC knew they would.

 

[krisskross]

FWIW and my 2 cents, duct tape was over Caylee's eyes because they were open after she died. And Casey could not stand it...only in the movies do people die with their eyes closed. I think the rest might have come later if only to support the kidnapping theory or to prevent leakage.

I have said this many times, but I hope that being in the car for Casey was like the story the tell tale heart....and then she drops the car, with it's terrible mess, in view of the A's when both went to and from work.....if they had been looking, they would have seen it. A slap in her parents face, imo. Another little jab.

With respect, I disagree. I don't recall Dr G saying anything about duct tape being on or needing to be removed from the top part of Caylee's face. IIRC all three pieces of tape were on the lower part of her face, they had to be cut away from the remaining hair mass which was also at the lower part of the skull. Caylee had no hair on the top of her skull. The coroner also states that the tape was holding Caylee's mandible in its anatomical position. As for supporting a kidnapping theory why wait 31 days and tell everyone who asks Caylee is at the beach or .........

Re leaving the car at Amscot, she was due to take Lazarro to the airport the following Monday. Its my opinion she had to get the car out of comission rather than risk him imo reasonably presumbing they use her car for the trip. And didnt she go straight to Amy's after the airport trip. They went to Target for a gas can.


I see no evidence that she planned to cry kidnap until her mother tracked her down July 15th. And wasnt that the State's assertion at the 911 call hearing.

 

[Paintr]

--respectfully snipped

Ain't that the truth?! Auto-pilot. They just did what came naturally. Unbelievable.

Don't forget the A's immediately searched the backyard. If Caylee was alive and there were no 'red flags' according to Cindy, just what were the A's searching for? :waitasec:

 

[Dignity4Victims]

With respect, I disagree. I don't recall Dr G saying anything about duct tape being on or needing to be removed from the top part of Caylee's face. IIRC all three pieces of tape were on the lower part of her face, they had to be cut away from the remaining hair mass which was also at the lower part of the skull. Caylee had no hair on the top of her skull. The coroner also states that the tape was holding Caylee's mandible in its anatomical position. As for supporting a kidnapping theory why wait 31 days and tell everyone who asks Caylee is at the beach or .........

Re leaving the car at Amscot, she was due to take Lazarro to the airport the following Monday. Its my opinion she had to get the car out of comission rather than risk him imo reasonably presumbing they use her car for the trip. And didnt she go straight to Amy's after the airport trip. They went to Target for a gas can.


I see no evidence that she planned to cry kidnap until her mother tracked her down July 15th. And wasnt that the State's assertion at the 911 call hearing.

BBM - exactly!

 

[krimekat]

BBM
Something I noticed (finally) in this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chHc3vyiIms&NR=1
1:08 mark
Orlando Salinas asks George who has just spent close to an hour with ICA and has just left her, what color her shackles were, were they pink?
George hems and haws, and then says, "I can't remember."

Orlando, you genius!

Excellent! I also doubted that GA saw KC & Caylee on the 16th -- he provided too much detail about an ordinary day. THANKS for resurrecting this thread!