*DEVELOPING*CO Shooting at Movie Theater #2

[jjenny]

In Colorado, the burden of proof is on the state.

http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

I hope the feds get to try him.
He was ordering stuff on-line, right? At least some possibly from other states? Doesn't that mean Feds could try him?

 

[jjenny]

if there was a system in place to call his phone when his
apartment was to explode, theoretically the calling device
would have been destroyed before completing the call.
he could have simply set a timed bomb in his apartment
for midnight which would have diverted first responders.
thankfully he didn't think of that, but considering the
methodical planning involved in this, the apartment
bomb plot seems sloppy.

The apparent bomb plot almost worked. His neighbor almost went in by her own admission. She knocked on the door, was thinking of going in, but decided not to.

 

[Reannan]

Just got home from gonig to see the Batman movie tonight. I generally do not go to movies - I am on the interenet instead!!! :crazy: It was sort of surreal being in the movie and trying to figure out what I would do if under assault, and thinking about all of the victims and what they would have experienced. So incredibly sad!!!! My impression is that the movie has a very political overtone, and I predict this crime will as well. In the movie, the "primary" villain - Bane, is a horrible person, but once you learn his story, there is room to have sympathy for him. I will say no more about that for the sake of those who have not yet seen the movie.

 

[Rallihanna]

I don't think we should be judgemental against the victims here.. JMHO

 

[wfgodot]

I hope the feds get to try him.
He was ordering stuff on-line, right? At least some possibly from other states? Doesn't that mean Feds could try him?

Dunno. State shouldn't have many problems disproving insanity defense though it will be a drag on resources. Colorado is one of the few states, post-Hinckley, that still require the state to do so.

 

[Lava]

Any ideas how long he has been planning this? I bet he is kicking himself concerning the flat - that didn't go to plan.

I really am interested in how long he had this in mind. I know he started receiving packages about 4 months ago - but he had to be planning it before that. How long was he at this school for? It makes me wonder if he picked this community, due to the closeness of Columbine. Very curious about this.

 

[scorekeeper]

3 of the gentlemen killed were shielding their friend/girlfriends from the bullets.......RIP

 

[mrsu]

I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? Was it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

 

[mysterygirl]

But if he bought a ticket then went out to his car and came back he wouldn't have had time for full face makeup.

Unless he went in that way........?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am fairly confident in saying that I don't believe it was anything in the above coursework of his that caused him to commit the murders. In college I got my Bachelor's in Linguistics with a Minor in Cognitive Psychology, and my Master's in Communicative Disorders because I was fascinated with the study of the Brain.(I studied most of the above topics, and did my Thesis on Alzheimer's). I also have a strong interest in True Crime, as evidenced by my presence on Websleuths. For 13 years, I used my studies to help people with brain disorders as a Speech-Language Pathologist, not to harm people!!! This guy clearly had other issues going on with him, his eyes look creepy in his photos that have been in the news and his smirk is evil, not "normal",IMO.:twocents:

Funny you should say this, because a therapist friend of mine told me that he could tell instantly from his mugshot that J. Laughner (is that correct? too lazy to look it up right now, but I am referring to the guy who shot Gabrielle Giffords) was off his rocker (not the term my friend used of course) because of the vacancy in his eyes.

That was the first thing that sprang to mind when I saw that picture of JH. The same sort of quality about the eyes.

 

[jjenny]

But if he bought a ticket then went out to his car and came back he wouldn't have had time for full face makeup.

Unless he went in that way........?

I don't think it takes long to put on Joker type make up.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

In Colorado, the burden of proof is on the state.

http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

??

The burden of proof (to prove a crime) is on the state in any state.

But in an insanity defense, the burden of proof for insanity is on the defense. Isn't it? Why would prosecutors try to prove an insanity defense?

I don't understand.

 

[orora]

Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3". Would any eyewitness not knowing Holmes really be able to recognize who left the theater let alone whether it were the same who returned to do the shooting? Did one let another in? How long between one leaving and the other entering? Was it even Holmes doing the shooting? Proof? Why aren't we seeing his face?

Defence issues can arise from any number of issues. The early live stuff is critical to watch and record. Wish I had recorded the movie clip of the Gangster Squad theater shooting.

 

[wfgodot]

??

The burden of proof is on the state in any state.

But in an insanity defense, the burden of proof for insanity is on the defense.

No, it's not. Not in Colorado.

It's one of eight states where the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

COLORADO: M'Naghten Rule with irresistible impulse test, burden of proof on state.

http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

 

[Reannan]

I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? What it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

All of your questions are excellent. I remember hearing there was a 4th gun, but it was in his car. This was a HIGHLY organized and planned crime. When did he start the plans, and did anyone help him? Waiting to hear....

 

[jjenny]

Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3". Would any eyewitness not knowing Holmes really be able to recognize who left the theater let alone whether it were the same who returned to do the shooting? Did one let another in? How long between one leaving and the other entering? Was it even Holmes doing the shooting? Proof? Why aren't we seeing his face?

Defence issues can arise from any number of sources. The early live stuff is critical to watch and record. Wish I had recorded the movie clip of the Gangster Squad theater shooting.

Shooter is 5'9" and you know that how? Was somebody measuring the shooter during the shooting?

 

[SmoothOperator]

I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? What it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

1) he did live there in fact one of his neighbors stated he saw him leaving his apt the evening of the shooting as he was loading black duffel bags into his car. The neighbor says he spoke to him, but that he did not reply with so much as even a hi!..

2) while I know some believe it to possible or even likely(according to some) that he had an accomplice IMO he acted alone.. As far as the mug shot being kept out of public for reasons that it would show a different male and the persons sitting next to him would recognize it was a different person.. IMO this isn't the reason as theyve released the arrestee/suspects name and we have plenty of pics that the witnesses would already be able to see and say hey that's not him.. So IMO that's not the cause for their with holding the mug shot..

3) the fourth gun, which was the other glock handgun was recovered from the suspects car..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Lava]

Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3". Would any eyewitness not knowing Holmes really be able to recognize who left the theater let alone whether it were the same who returned to do the shooting? Did one let another in? How long between one leaving and the other entering? Was it even Holmes doing the shooting? Proof? Why aren't we seeing his face?

Defence issues can arise from any number of sources. The early live stuff is critical to watch and record. Wish I had recorded the movie clip of the Gangster Squad theater shooting.

This is actually very common in situations like this. Conflicting witness statements, confusion, plus the fact that looks like he did buy a ticket - go out and come back in. I can see how people, trying to pay attention to trailers or the movie itself wouldn't notice if the phone call person came back in before the shooter. Police are confident that he acted alone, and so am I.

 

[Benny08]

I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? Was it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

Good post. It was said earlier today that the shooter asked some neighbors across the way in another building if they had any open apts for rent. Maybe he wanted to expand his explosives or maybe the place he was staying in was getting a little cramped with all the booby-traps etc.

I still don't buy the accomplice thing but I suppose it's possible. I think he left the theater at 1230, that's when people first noticed the guy go outside right? Then the shooting starts at 1239. His car was right out that back door. 9 minutes to gear up and move inside sounds about right to me.

 

[jjenny]

This is actually very common in situations like this. Conflicting witness statements, confusion, plus the fact that looks like he did buy a ticket - go out and come back in. I can see how people, trying to pay attention to trailers or the movie itself wouldn't notice if the phone call person came back in before the shooter. Police are confident that he acted alone, and so am I.

It is very common. Description of suspects/number of suspects/race of suspects can vary widely.
I don't believe this guy had an accomplice. He is described as a loner.
It'd have to be a pretty close friend to act as an accomplice in something like that-like in Columbine shooting, the two of the high school students were hanging together a lot. And nobody said this guy was constantly hanging out with anyone.