Did Darlie Routier murder her precious sons? Part 2

[nicola]

It depends on who you believe said they couldn't be self inflicted. Most people believe that all of her wounds were self inflicted. If you can point us in the direction of someone saying that they were not, we'll try and answer your question.

The wounds were prtty servere for self inflicted wounds especially the neck wound - which came within 2mm of killing her. The depth of the knife wound was limited by her necklace, which was damaged as a result, and serverly embedded into the wound, so much as it had to be removed by a surgeon. Also the location of the brusing looks like defence marks.

 

[nicola]

I was talking about an "expert" in self-inflicted wounds. Barbara Davis, as far as I remember, never wrote a second book, but yes, she did change her mind and is now claiming that she believes Darlie is innocent. I've never heard her try and explain the wounds on Darlie, either before her change of opinion or after it.

Barbara Davies explained her opinion on Darlies injuries on the TV programme Women on Death Row. She stated, amongst other things, that it would have been difficult to inflict wounds of that serveriy on both arms - at some point the knife wold have had to have been held in an injured arm to inflict the wounds on second arm (hope you understand wha im getting at). Barbara states that this would have been almost impossible to do this when you look at serverity and position of wounds and think of the force that would be needed to inflict these wounds.

 

[mollymalone]

Barbara Davies explained her opinion on Darlies injuries on the TV programme Women on Death Row. She stated, amongst other things, that it would have been difficult to inflict wounds of that serveriy on both arms - at some point the knife wold have had to have been held in an injured arm to inflict the wounds on second arm (hope you understand wha im getting at). Barbara states that this would have been almost impossible to do this when you look at serverity and position of wounds and think of the force that would be needed to inflict these wounds.

I don't recall Barbara being a doctor or a forensic investigator.
If I recall correctly, there were what's called hesitation in the wounds, where the cuts hurt and the person stops cutting, and then resumes?

 

[snvoigt]

And once again, that happened in Dallas...nowhere near Rowlette and Darlie's home...and it happened long before the Routier murders. There is no evidence, none, zip, nada, squat of similar crimes in the immediate vicinty of the Routier home or Rowlette.

Darlie's dna was in the toe of the sock and fibres on it matched Darin's Reboks, it's his sock taken from their home. I am quite sure Darlie used it to cover the knife handle.

How do you think the bloody knife imprint got into the carpet in the murder room? I'm interested to hear your explanation for this. Thanks

Uh, Hi. I know I am reading this late. But I live across the street from the neighborhood this happend in, and I am sorry to say Dallas is a short drive down I-30 from where we live. Maybe 10min depending on where you are going, or maybe 20 if you are taking the back roads.
Rowlett is a small area, well we are larger now. But back then there wasn't much around here. We aren't backwoods, but just a little area.
So it was a shock that "a strange man" broke into her house to murder her boys only. Saw her and decided, Oh I need to get her also.
Most of us in our neighborhoods feel she did it. And those who knew her, feel that she did it. The strange child killing man, that has been blamed for this, has never been seen in this area again.
Shauna

 

[Anita Richman]

Uh, Hi. I know I am reading this late. But I live across the street from the neighborhood this happend in, and I am sorry to say Dallas is a short drive down I-30 from where we live. Maybe 10min depending on where you are going, or maybe 20 if you are taking the back roads.
Rowlett is a small area, well we are larger now. But back then there wasn't much around here. We aren't backwoods, but just a little area.
So it was a shock that "a strange man" broke into her house to murder her boys only. Saw her and decided, Oh I need to get her also.
Most of us in our neighborhoods feel she did it. And those who knew her, feel that she did it. The strange child killing man, that has been blamed for this, has never been seen in this area again.
Shauna

Shauna, thanks for posting. Even though only a few people will respond, hundreds will read your words.

Personally, I feel the jury did well and an evil person is now behind bars. :wish I had 'silly string' to spray about this board!:

 

[SadieMae]

H*ll yes Darlie killed her babies!!! I'm waiting for her execution date to be announced and carried out. Darlie is a killer and a liar!

 

[whitywendy]

The wounds were prtty servere for self inflicted wounds especially the neck wound - which came within 2mm of killing her. Thedepth of the knife wound was limited by her necklace, which was damaged as a result, and serverly embedded into the wound, so much as it had to be removed by a surgeon. Also the location of the brusing looks like defence marks.

Hello my friend Nicola - Welcome back from your summer break. I just wanted to let you know that in the transcripts, during the testimony of one of the ER nurses, (can't remember which one) it was stated that SHE took the necklace off prior to her going into surgery. It was not embedded. It was more so placed there to stop the bleeding (imo) while Darlie was waiting on the ambulance.

 

[nicola]

I don't recall Barbara being a doctor or a forensic investigator.
If I recall correctly, there were what's called hesitation in the wounds, where the cuts hurt and the person stops cutting, and then resumes?

Barbara Davies is neither Dr or forensic investigator - shes an author as im sure you already know. I was just stating that she had infact commented about the wounds.

It was stated by someone (cant remember who exactly) that the wounds may have been hesitation wounds as it has also been stated that the wounds were self inflicted. However, I have found testimony from a Dr. DiMaio stating that it is not likely that the wounds were self inflicted and it is more likely that the wounds are defense wounds. (Sorry it so long).


1 Q. Okay. Dr. DiMaio, are those injuries
2 consistent or inconsistent with having been
3 self-inflicted, the bruising?
4 A. That is -- I would say it's
5 inconsistent. I mean, how do you get blunt force
6 injuries here? I mean, it's easy to get blunt force
7 injuries here, if you want, you know, I can bang my arm
8 against the edge here. But to here? And, also, again,
9 it's very wide spread.
10 I mean this, this, a lot of force.
11 You -- everybody has bumped into something and you get a
12 bruise, but look at this. It's just really severe
13 hemorrhage up and down the arm. This is tremendous
14 force.
15 Q. Doctor, what are defensive wounds?
16 A. Defensive wounds are injuries that you
17 get when you try to ward off an attacker. And, the
18 original description had to do with knives, and it could
19 also be blunt force.
20 In other words, if somebody is
21 swinging something hard at you like a hard object, and
22 you put your arm up like that and you get injuries here
23 and here, then you have what is called defensive wounds,
24 because they are incurred when you try to protect
25 yourself. And people will typically protect the most
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4545

1 important part of the body, that is the head. So people
2 tend to raise arms up, if it's a blunt force, and try to
3 protect their face and head.
4 Q. Doctor, I'll ask you to refer to the
5 photographs and see if they don't depict an injury to the
6 neck of Darlie Routier, an injury, a stab wound to the
7 left chest of Darlie Routier, cuts to the left, inside
8 fingers to three of her fingers on her left hand, and two
9 stab wounds in her right forearm?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. All right. Would you characterize any
12 of those injuries as defensive wounds?
13 A. The wounds that you would consider
14 defensive would be the wounds of the back of the right
15 forearm. This is a close-up in my right hand. This is
16 the type of wound that if somebody was trying to stab at
17 you with a knife, what do you do? You put your am up.
18 And there are two stab wounds here and here.
19 If she had been dead, and I had done
20 an autopsy, I would have called -- I would have put this
21 section down as two penetrating stab wounds of the right
22 forearm, parenthesis, defense wounds. Because this is
23 the location that you get these wounds in, if somebody is
24 going to attack you with a knife. It's typical.
25 That is, people who commit suicide
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4546

1 will cut themselves here. Why? Because this is the
2 natural way to do it. Although, they cut the edge, this
3 way. But these are vertically oriented, you know, on the
4 hands in its normal position, and on the back. And this
5 is typical for the defense wounds, when someone is coming
6 at you with a knife and you hold your arm up in the front
7 of you, and this is where you would get the defense
8 wounds.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. And the other place you get defense
11 wound are on the hands. In fact, the original
12 description of defense wounds is on the hands.
13 Because what happens is someone comes
14 at you with a knife, you try to ward them off, a lot of
15 times they try to grab the blade, and you can see there
16 is a cut going across, a very superficial cut going from
17 one finger to the other and there. This has the
18 appearance of one single cut.
19 All right. I know someone says,
20 "Well, they don't exactly line up," but you know, your
21 fingers, you don't walk around with your hand like that,
22 I mean, you curl them and then maybe down or up. And
23 this has the appearance, again of a defense wound.
24 Again, if this was an autopsy case, I
25 would put, you know, incised wounds of fingers,

1 parenthesis, defense wounds.
2 Q. Okay. Dr. DiMaio, have you had
3 occasion in the past to examine injuries or render an
4 opinion as regards to whether or not those injuries were
5 self-inflicted?
6 A. Yes. The last time I think was about,
7 just before Christmas. A nurse shot her, I think it was
8 common-in-law husband, and her defense was is that he
9 attacked her with a knife. And, you know, they were
10 obviously self-inflicted wounds.
11 And my office has had two other -- in
12 the last three or four years, two other cases where the
13 defense was, you know, it was self-defense, and I had
14 to -- I warded off a knife, and these are defense wounds,
15 you know, these wounds were incurred, but actually they
16 were incised wounds.
17 One was, I think, an oral surgeon,
18 another one, a dentist. And again, I had another case of
19 a doctor who self-inflicted wounds and was trying to say
20 he was attacked.
21 Q. All right. Dr. DiMaio, assume that
22 Darlie Routier is right-handed, are those injuries that
23 you observed in the photographs, are they consistent or
24 inconsistent with self-infliction?
25 A. They are inconsistent with
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4548

1 self-infliction. Both the wounds, the stab wounds on the
2 back of the right forearm and the stab wounds on the
3 neck. Because if you look at the -- really, incised
4 wounds. When I say incised, I mean a cut.
5 And, an incised wound is when, you
6 know, the sharp edge of a knife runs across her body, but
7 a stab wound is the tip going into it. And, you can see
8 here and here (demonstrating), then if we go close up,
9 this is a much better close-up.
10 And what this shows, is that this
11 wound has started on the right side of her neck here,
12 across the midline going in a downward path, and then,
13 there is a gap and then there is a second wound.
14 So essentially, if you look at me,
15 there is an incised wound going like this, gap, and then
16 there is another knife wound here. And, you know, if you
17 think -- the ruler -- think about this.
18 If this is a knife and you're
19 right-handed, I mean, you are going to have to be going
20 like this, the edge of the knife, and then skipping a
21 place, like that, then, changing hands and doing two stab
22 wounds here, this way.
23 And, because, you know, people don't
24 do things the hard way. They do things simple. So,
25 this, you know, try and say, you know, you are going to
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4549

1 cut like this, and then you have to cut like that, and
2 then stab, doesn't make any sense for self-inflicted
3 wounds, for a right-handed person.
4 And people who are right-handed use
5 their right hand for self-infliction of the wounds,
6 because you don't think about it. If I handed any of you
7 this, you would pick it up with your dominant hand. You
8 wouldn't think anything.
9 You wouldn't pick it up with your left
10 hand and manipulate it. It's too difficult. And people
11 don't think about that. They are not going to say, "Oh,
12 I'm going to switch hands." Now, like I said, the people
13 I saw were doctors and nurses and they self-inflicted
14 with the right hand, which was their dominant.
15 The wound on the neck is -- if I may
16 demonstrate on you?
17 Q. Sure.
18 THE WITNESS: May I, your Honor?
19 THE COURT: That is quite all right.
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: That is why I got
21 the ruler.
22
23 (Whereupon, the witness
24 Stepped down from the
25 Witness stand, and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4550

1 Approached the jury rail
2 And the proceedings were
3 Resumed as follows
4
5 THE WITNESS: As I said, this, and
6 then you have to turn it like this, doesn't make any
7 sense. But that makes sense, or, that make sense. Okay?
8 And, what happens, you notice how he
9 cringed? Well, let's go in slow motion. The knife comes
10 here, and starts to cut, and what will you do, you'll
11 lean back.
12 And of course, when you lean back,
13 there's a gap, but you stick your chest out and you get
14 here. So it's like this, now lean back and so there is a
15 gap. Stand straight.
16 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Okay.
17 THE WITNESS: The cut comes down like
18 that, and now you start to go back. And notice how you
19 get a skip, and if you look at these wounds, they line
20 up.
21
22 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
23 Q. Would that be the same if I were --
24 could you demonstrate that same thing if I were lying on
25 a sofa?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4551

1 A. Sure. It's the same thing. Well, it
2 doesn't make everybody horizontal, but it's the same way.
3 If you look at this, this is one wound coming straight
4 down this way. It's coming from here, gap, space.
5 And this is not consistent with
6 someone self-inflicting it with the right hand. I mean,
7 obviously, you can't stab yourself in the back. And
8 people who do self-inflict wounds, will always use their
9 dominant hand, because that is how you are taught to use
10 knives and things.

All above testiminoy taken from http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Legal/Transcript/Simmons/Vol-43.htm#4537

 

[nicola]

Hello my friend Nicola - Welcome back from your summer break. I just wanted to let you know that in the transcripts, during the testimony of one of the ER nurses, (can't remember which one) it was stated that SHE took the necklace off prior to her going into surgery. It was not embedded. It was more so placed there to stop the bleeding (imo) while Darlie was waiting on the ambulance.

Thanks Wendy - Im glad to be back!
Could you please explain to me what you mean about necklace placed to stop bleeding? I cant understand how that would work.
I read that the necklace was embedded in her neck and had to be surgically removed! I'll find where I rad it and get back to you.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks Wendy - Im glad to be back!
Could you please explain to me what you mean about necklace placed to stop bleeding? I cant understand how that would work.
I read that the necklace was embedded in her neck and had to be surgically removed! I'll find where I rad it and get back to you.

It didn't have to be "surgically removed." It just happend to have been removed by a surgeon because they were not sure what other damage, if any, had been done.

 

[whitywendy]

It didn't have to be "surgically removed." It just happend to have been removed by a surgeon because they were not sure what other damage, if any, had been done.

Hey Jeana - I thought I read in the transcripts of one of the nurses that the necklace was removed by her prior to going into surgery.

I still think Darlie placed this necklace over her wound hoping the unexpected amount of blood coming out would stop or at least slow down until the ambulance got there.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Hey Jeana - I thought I read in the transcripts of one of the nurses that the necklace was removed by her prior to going into surgery.

I still think Darlie placed this necklace over her wound hoping the unexpected amount of blood coming out would stop or at least slow down until the ambulance got there.

You could be right. Its been a while since I've read the transcripts. Either way, Darlie was in absolutely no danger of losing anything that night except her boys.

 

[whitywendy]

You could be right. Its been a while since I've read the transcripts. Either way, Darlie was in absolutely no danger of losing anything that night except her boys.

YEP!! The statement that she had life-saving surgery just gets on my last nerve. I bet you she was really surprised by how much her superficial neckwound bled.

 

[accordn2me]

You could be right. <snipped>

You know better than that! :hand:

 

[mollymalone]

Barbara Davies is neither Dr or forensic investigator - shes an author as im sure you already know. I was just stating that she had infact commented about the wounds.

It was stated by someone (cant remember who exactly) that the wounds may have been hesitation wounds as it has also been stated that the wounds were self inflicted. However, I have found testimony from a Dr. DiMaio stating that it is not likely that the wounds were self inflicted and it is more likely that the wounds are defense wounds. (Sorry it so long).
SNIPPED
[/COLOR]
All above testiminoy taken from http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Legal/Transcript/Simmons/Vol-43.htm#4537

Yes, I know she's an author. My comment was merely to point out that she isn't qualified to make a determination medically. All she can do is quote what others have said, as do we.

DiMiao. I've seen his testimony in the Specter trial, and IMO he tailors his testimony for whomever is paying him enough. I'd go with the testimony of the doctor who actually treated her on that night, and the hospital personnel who were there assisting him.

 

[mollymalone]

YEP!! The statement that she had life-saving surgery just gets on my last nerve. I bet you she was really surprised by how much her superficial neckwound bled.

Gets on mine too.

Life saving surgery implies that one is/was in danger of losing their life.
If the treatment Darlie received that night was so life saving, why would she be out of the hospital so quickly? :waitasec:

 

[whitywendy]

Gets on mine too.

Life saving surgery implies that one is/was in danger of losing their life.
If the treatment Darlie received that night was so life saving, why would she be out of the hospital so quickly? :waitasec:

EXACTLY!!! She went in early Thursday morning and was released on Saturday morning. Yep, LIFE SAVING SURGERY.

 

[imthemom]

I seen a special on this piece awhile back there was new evidence and they were trying for a new trial. There was a sock or something that was found with blood on it that she could not have thrown down the road. Not sure exactly, does anyone know what I am talking about. Please don't flame me but from the shows I've seen on this I tend to think she didn't do it. I guess I just want to believe a mother that doted on her boys was not abusive would just up and kill her kids. The thing that bothers me is why didn't she kill her baby? I don't think her husband would have went along with this. I don't know of any spouse who would turn to the other and say lets kill our two kids for insurance? Just doesn't make sense to me, I think the other person would immediately kick you out. Maybe you can change my mind though.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I seen a special on this piece awhile back there was new evidence and they were trying for a new trial. There was a sock or something that was found with blood on it that she could not have thrown down the road. Not sure exactly, does anyone know what I am talking about. Please don't flame me but from the shows I've seen on this I tend to think she didn't do it. I guess I just want to believe a mother that doted on her boys was not abusive would just up and kill her kids. The thing that bothers me is why didn't she kill her baby? I don't think her husband would have went along with this. I don't know of any spouse who would turn to the other and say lets kill our two kids for insurance? Just doesn't make sense to me, I think the other person would immediately kick you out. Maybe you can change my mind though.

I think you need to read about the case. The television show you saw didn't really help things. Read the transcripts and that should be a great place to start!!!

 

[whitywendy]

I seen a special on this piece awhile back there was new evidence and they were trying for a new trial. There was a sock or something that was found with blood on it that she could not have thrown down the road. Not sure exactly, does anyone know what I am talking about. Please don't flame me but from the shows I've seen on this I tend to think she didn't do it. I guess I just want to believe a mother that doted on her boys was not abusive would just up and kill her kids. The thing that bothers me is why didn't she kill her baby? I don't think her husband would have went along with this. I don't know of any spouse who would turn to the other and say lets kill our two kids for insurance? Just doesn't make sense to me, I think the other person would immediately kick you out. Maybe you can change my mind though.

Hey allot of us started out believing Darlie was innocent and seeking the truth. There is a website that you can visit and read the trial transcripts (which helped me), also there is allot reading here. I think it is called Justice for Darlie. Just google her name it and it should come up.

After reading for about a year and seriously freaking my husband out about this because I could not think of anything else, I finally came to my decision. Guilty. Sad but true.

So go and start reading, THE EVIDENCE will completely surprise you as it did me and whole bunch of others .