Did Lisa's Mom do it? Poll

[Chewy]

I respect your feelings, but not every woman bases her measure of womanhood on motherhood.

I sure as hell don't. My son means more to me than anyone in this world, but I'm not defined by my ability to have babies. Some women "forsake" motherhood because they don't have maternal instincts, don't want babies. In their case, it's the responsible thing to do. My womanhood is directly related to my honour, character, and strong code of ethics. I'd rather be a woman on my own terms rather than because of my uterus. The uterus is a happenstance of nature; my position in life and how I got where I am today, is not.

I've not forgotten; I'll just be damned if someone else gets to define what make me a woman.*


*Not saying you did this, it's just a general comment.

With all due respect, your opinion of yourself as a woman has absolutely NOTHING to do with our obligation to responsibly care for or provide care for a child you have brought into the world.

The child did not ask to be born of a woman who is confused as to why his or her existence requires sacrifice and maturity. Arguments about gender roles, social issues, feminist theory are time wasting social constructs that are completely and totally unrelated to the fact of a child that is born needed to be properly cared for by a woman or a man who understands that at that point the priority of the child will always outweigh the need for a debate over nonsense.

If you have a child, take care of your child. It ain't rocket science.

 

[Turnadot]

I apologise Southern_comfort if my post came across as an attack on your personal views, or if it seemed I misrepresented them. I used your post as a jumping off point and was only talking about myself and how I feel about my personal definition of womanhood. I was just trying to make conversation.

Sorry for any offense.

 

[Abby Normal]

With all due respect, your opinion of yourself as a woman has absolutely NOTHING to do with our obligation to responsibly care for or provide care for a child you have brought into the world.

The child did not ask to be born of a woman who is confused as to why his or her existence requires sacrifice and maturity. Arguments about gender roles, social issues, feminist theory are time wasting social constructs that are completely and totally unrelated to the fact of a child that is born needed to be properly cared for by a woman or a man who understands that at that point the priority of the child will always outweigh the need for a debate over nonsense.

If you have a child, take care of your child. It ain't rocket science.

Dude, seriously? :banghead:

This is off topic from the thread so I'm not going to go there with you, no matter how much I wanna. :seeya:

 

[Turnadot]

And feminist theory is not a time wasting social construct. My God, if it were, we women would still be obeying someone just because they happened to be born with a penis while still not getting paid our due for doing the same work.

IMO.

 

[Abby Normal]

And feminist theory is not a time wasting social construct. My God, if it were, we women would still be obeying someone just because they happened to be born with a penis while still not getting paid our due for doing the same work.

IMO.

yup. And my daughters appreciate the work the women before them have put into gender roles, social issues, feminist theory. Because of those thing, they don't have to forego an education to get married at 14.

it's an extension of our parental obligation to make the world a better place for our children.

And now I am sitting on my hands and not typing another off topic word :innocent:

 

[Turnadot]

Well, I'm going to see if I can pull myself away from my personal feelings of womanhood and my FEMINIST 4 LIFE: Hairy Armpits pamphlet, to prepare my 5 year old his breakfast.

It'll be hard to tear myself away, but I must.

*weeps*

 

[Darcyline]

Wow this post got a bit uncomfortable. I, for one, am thankful for "time wasting" feminists. I appreciate being able to vote, being able to read books and go to college, earning money, not being married off and impregnated at 15 or 16, and...you know, rape being classified as a crime against me and not property damage to my father or husband. So, thank you wasteful feminists I also have a great man in my life who treats and respects me as an equal and I hope we eventually have children where we will BOTH care for and raise the child TOGETHER.

That being said, I don't condone anyone (mother, father, family member, babysitter, etc) getting blackout drunk while caring for three small children. I am also just amazed beyond amazed that she claims she last saw Lisa at 640. That is a LONG TIME to go without checking on an infant. By my count, at least 8 hours? I almost feel like that is just an excuse to make her seem like a bad mom, but NOT a murdering mom. I don't think DB cares if we think her mothering is bad or she made a bad decision as long as it doesn't end in charges against her that would put her in jail.
I am very far leaning toward whatever happened happened in the house with the players we already know about.

Edit just to say that apparently now the story is that she went in at 7-8 and checked on her? Either way, I still agree with the last sentence of my original post.

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect, your opinion of yourself as a woman has absolutely NOTHING to do with our obligation to responsibly care for or provide care for a child you have brought into the world.

The child did not ask to be born of a woman who is confused as to why his or her existence requires sacrifice and maturity. Arguments about gender roles, social issues, feminist theory are time wasting social constructs that are completely and totally unrelated to the fact of a child that is born needed to be properly cared for by a woman or a man who understands that at that point the priority of the child will always outweigh the need for a debate over nonsense.

If you have a child, take care of your child. It ain't rocket science.

ITA. Not every woman has the capacity or a role model to help her become a good mother--just as some men don't have good role models for fathehood-- and we are seeing the outcome in these horrific cases of child abuse and neglect.

I'm stunned at those who think we shouldn't harshly judge a woman for creating an unhealthy home environment by parking children in front of a video or in her crib while Mom gets wasted on the front stoop and forgets about them.

JMO

 

[shgrbkr]

I'm a fence sitter. In my heart, I believe baby Lisa is dead. (I really hated to write that word). Anyway, Mom is a bit defensive about the drinking. I'm inclined to believe she had a blackout episode and doesn't really remember what exactly happened that night. Perhaps over the past couple of weeks, a few memories are creeping into her head. Maybe she could be hypnotized, just to see if any leads come out of it.

Questions for me right now: Why did she "put Lisa to bed at 6:40pm?" The child was 11 months old! Surely she wasn't putting her down for the night at that time??? Even if she did check on her at 10:30, I think the other time is completely unrealistic, unless she wanted the baby out of her hair so she could drink. The two boys put in front of the TV to watch a movie may have been another move so Mom could get her "adult time."

Why would the cell phones be missing? All I've heard is that they are gone, poof, nowhere to be found. What has LE learned by checking the records from the cell company?

Is is possible that Mom put a bit of that wine in Lisa's bottle? What about her friend? What has he said?

I hope this doesn't turn into another KC Anthony fiasco. That baby is precious!! If they don't find her, the mom is NOT going to tell anything else.

 

[Turnadot]

I'm a fence sitter. In my heart, I believe baby Lisa is dead. (I really hated to write that word). Anyway, Mom is a bit defensive about the drinking. I'm inclined to believe she had a blackout episode and doesn't really remember what exactly happened that night. Perhaps over the past couple of weeks, a few memories are creeping into her head. Maybe she could be hypnotized, just to see if any leads come out of it.

Questions for me right now: Why did she "put Lisa to bed at 6:40pm?" The child was 11 months old! Surely she wasn't putting her down for the night at that time??? Even if she did check on her at 10:30, I think the other time is completely unrealistic, unless she wanted the baby out of her hair so she could drink. The two boys put in front of the TV to watch a movie may have been another move so Mom could get her "adult time."

Why would the cell phones be missing? All I've heard is that they are gone, poof, nowhere to be found. What has LE learned by checking the records from the cell company?

Is is possible that Mom put a bit of that wine in Lisa's bottle? What about her friend? What has he said?

I hope this doesn't turn into another KC Anthony fiasco. That baby is precious!! If they don't find her, the mom is NOT going to tell anything else.

It's possible she lay Lisa down for the night at the time because Lisa had a cold, IIRC. OR it could have been to get Lisa out of her hair.

You and me both!

IMO

 

[Turnadot]

ITA. Not every woman has the capacity or a role model to help her become a good mother--just as some men don't have good role models for fathehood-- and we are seeing the outcome in these horrific cases of child abuse and neglect.

I'm stunned at those who think we shouldn't harshly judge a woman for creating an unhealthy home environment by parking children in front of a video or in her crib while Mom gets wasted on the front stoop and forgets about them.

JMO

So true. The latest being Casey Anthony, IMO. Clearly her parents were...off, ya know.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

*looks around the room cautiously, checks on status of own uterus and womanhood, backs out of room slowly*

 

[Turnadot]

*looks around the room cautiously, checks on status of own uterus and womanhood, backs out of room slowly*

That's what I should have done. Perhaps I should report my own posts so a mod can clean it up and I'll just, er, log out for a while.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

That's what I should have done. Perhaps I should report my own posts so a mod can clean it up and I'll just, er, log out for a while.

Try walking away for 5 minutes after you type and then come back and see if you really want to post it.

ETA: Hey wait a second...was this a lure to get my back in this room so that you guys could hijack my uterus?!

 

[MyBelle]

*looks around the room cautiously, checks on status of own uterus and womanhood, backs out of room slowly*

take that box of wine with 'ya!! j/k

 

[Turnadot]

Try walking away for 5 minutes after you type and then come back and see if you really want to post it.

ETA: Hey wait a second...was this a lure to get my back in this room so that you guys could hijack my uterus?!

Good idea.

I hang out too much on forums where it's anarchy and people say whatever the heck they want, so then I log into Websleuths but I'm still *there*

That said, I love WS and don't want a pesky T.O.
*minds P's and Q's*

e2a: YES!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

take that box of wine with 'ya!! j/k

:toastred::escape:

 

[Debthree]

With all due respect, your opinion of yourself as a woman has absolutely NOTHING to do with our obligation to responsibly care for or provide care for a child you have brought into the world.

The child did not ask to be born of a woman who is confused as to why his or her existence requires sacrifice and maturity. Arguments about gender roles, social issues, feminist theory are time wasting social constructs that are completely and totally unrelated to the fact of a child that is born needed to be properly cared for by a woman or a man who understands that at that point the priority of the child will always outweigh the need for a debate over nonsense.

If you have a child, take care of your child. It ain't rocket science.

:clap:

 

[Debthree]

I heard it reported on NG tonight and also a very kind fellow sleuther pointed out that LE did find the homeless man so thats off my list. Not that NG reports are without mistakes...don't get me started on how much incorrect information comes from some news outlets....

They definitely found him and brought him in on an unrelated matter. That was last Saturday. Capt. Steve Young talks about his arrest here (approx 1.02). He was at pains to point out that the homeless man is unrelated to Lisa's case. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weuM584H02c"]Police Brief Reporters On Diaper Discovery - YouTube[/ame]

For me, one piece of evidence at this point thats critical is finding whether mom said Lisa was sick, cough and cold. I will search tomorrow as my behind is also suffering.
I believe this is important because...if Lisa was sick, it's possible she did experience some kind of health issue and passed away in her crib while mom was outside drinking. It is possible Lisa was more ill than mom will admit. Mom could have found her deceased and went into cover up mode.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. It still doesn't explain why DB wouldn't just call 911 but I agree there's a possibility that she panicked and felt immediately responsible. Definitely something to think about.

 

[Donjeta]

I am very grateful for feminist achievements making it possible for me to work, to vote, to have an independent role in the society apart from being a wife and mother. But still, feminism is IMO mostly irrelevant to this case. I don't have the slightest clue what DB's views about woman's role in society and what her uterus means to her and whether or not she wanted to forsake motherhood and I don't really care. The time to forsake motherhood is before you have gotten pregnant and become responsible for an innocent little baby. If the baby already exists the choice is gone, you've got to take care of it or realize you can't and make alternative arrangements for child custody. Feminism didn't fight for our right to be irresponsible mothers IMO.

I haven't voted in the poll, I tend to avoid polls like this. I usually have too many conflicting ideas to commit to one vote and I think it is sometimes premature and potentially insulting to innocent parties. But I will say that I don't trust one word that DB says, and not a whole lot of what JI and JT say either. I perceived something insincere about her from the start and now that she changed her story I feel quite justified in not trusting her. I don't really trust the story about her maybe blacking out either because it seems like a too convenient excuse why her timeline didn't match the other facts. Her arrogance "Yeah I drank but so what it doesn't have anything to do with Lisa missing" does not sit right with me. I think if she had really blacked out and an intruder got in and took Lisa she would feel at least a little bit guilty that she drank so much and maybe if she had been sober she'd have locked the doors and heard the intruder breaking in and Lisa would still be here. I don't sense any of that.

The father projects shame, IMO. He says they've grown a lot closer because of this but I don't see closeness in their interaction. I think he knows what happened too.

I'm not sure what happened but I think these two know what it is and are in cover-up mode now.