Discussion Thread #60 - 14.9.12 ~ the appeal~

[Colin de France]

I can imagine her screaming and waving the jeans at the same time to attract attention but you could well be right.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is an edited extract from The Trials of Oscar Pistorius: Chase Your Shadow by John Carlin

When OP was 17, with a year and a half of secondary school to complete, he competed in the South African disabled games. Suddenly, he was all over the news, did a TV advertisement, started receiving sponsorship money, bought his first car and discovered his love of speed on the road.

Bill Schroder, his headmaster, was the law at Pretoria Boys. Inevitably, during OP’s final year at school, after Athens, the two clashed. First, over a sponsored car that OP had received. Schroder ordered him to get rid of it. OP protested at first, but then grudgingly acquiesced.

The second time, OP informed Schroder that he had to take time off from school to take part in an athletics competition in Finland. Schroder told him he was not going. Apart from the principle of the matter, there was a practical reason Schroder didn’t want to let OP take time off from school – he had a duty to discharge as a dormitory prefect. In a room full of junior children, he was the one in charge, his job was to double up as mentor and enforcer of discipline.

After he killed Reeva, word spread among those who chose to believe that he had killed her deliberately. At school, in his capacity as dormitory prefect, he had been a violent bully. Rumours did reach some teachers that he had a violent temper – that sometimes he ‘flipped’, as one of them put it – and that he threatened the younger boys.

But that was hardly news at Pretoria Boys. Heavy-handedness was the norm. Bullying went with the territory, and for boarders it was especially tough. Prefects were sergeant majors with license to subject their subordinates to all manner of indignities, not excluding physical violence to a degree that might be judged illegal in civil society.

It was considered unpardonable among the boys to go and tell the teachers when someone had done something to you that you did not like. But while the boarders never ‘sneaked’ when they were at school, during the holidays some did confide in their parents.

In the all-male world of Pretoria Boys, the students enjoyed a freedom to inflict harm that they might not have found in the world beyond the school walls.

The danger was that they would fail to behave within legal limits once they left – as in the case of one former pupil who left the school in the 1980s, an especially unruly boy who used to break the unofficial rule that fighting was fine but you did not kick someone when he was down. He ended up killing his girlfriend, a former beauty queen, and then himself.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-dance-destiny/

Well, now we know that he had a violent temper at the age of 17, and possibly earlier. As a prefect, no doubt his propensity for controlling others was already well established. As OP was a boarder, you can bet your bottom dollar he was right in his element. The penultimate paragraph just makes me shudder.

Something else to add to the list I thought was finalised.

 

[Val1]

It wasn't pushed in court because nothing can be proved about how the jeans came to be there.

Do we even know for a fact that they were RS's? I know her mom seems to imply they were, but then apparently so was the bag that OP's sis stole from the crime scene... dang, now I'm really wondering what all may have left the scene in that.

If it's true that he and JE may have had plans for that evening, perhaps she had popped by to drop off her overnight bag before she went off to do whatever until OP was free while RS while was out doing her shopping etc in the early afternoon, before she told OP she was going to stick around until 6pm. When she got home she could have found JE's stuff(jeans etc) and waited to hash it out with OP in person(instead of over the phone when he'd called from their friend's, thus his decision not to go out with the boys after all) and not to make dinner for him but to tell him they were over ... then the chase would have been back on for OP to get her to stay and be a good girl like all his ex's, or shut her up.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Do we even know for a fact that they were RS's? I know her mom seems to imply they were, but then apparently so was the bag that OP's sis stole from the crime scene... dang, now I'm really wondering what all may have left the scene in that.

If it's true that he and JE may have had plans for that evening, perhaps she had popped by to drop off her overnight bag before she went off to do whatever until OP was free while RS while was out doing her shopping etc in the early afternoon, before she told OP she was going to stick around until 6pm. When she got home she could have found JE's stuff(jeans etc) and waited to hash it out with OP in person(instead of over the phone when he'd called from their friend's, thus his decision not to go out with the boys after all) and not to make dinner for him but to tell him they were over ... then the chase would have been back on for OP to get her to stay and be a good girl like all his ex's, or shut her up.

I could imagine this scenario, but then again the question: Who is listed in the logbook of Silver Woods security guard, are there other names than RS? Nobody has asked and unfortunately nobody will ask now. Like nobody will ask Frankie, the sleeping housekeeper. - I despair!

 

[JudgeJudi]

One gaping hole Defense fell through was OP’s (alleged) deafness after the shots* vs Reeva’s screams.

Roux declared that Reeva never screamed, that his client screams like a woman, yet produced zero evidence of same.

OP declared she never screamed but then admitted he couldn’t hear! What kind of stupid rebuttal evidence is that? It doesn’t even rise to the level of ridiculous.

Four ear witnesses had NO hearing problems when they heard Reeva scream for her life, yet Masipa trashed them in favor of the (allegedly) deaf accused. This is judicial illogic (in bed with cherry-picking bias) at its very finest.

It’s like asking a blind man to minutely describe the scenery, costumes and lighting in a stage play.

OP was stone-cold silent for 31 seconds (except for crybaby wailing) after Nel asked him if Reeva screamed after the first shot. That silence was wholly damning (giant red flag) - if for no other reason than OP himself introduced serious doubt into his version of Reeva’s 100% silence.

* How temporarily deaf does one actually become after shooting a gun?

For me, this was the most dramatic part of the entire trial. I'll never forget those 31 seconds. It was an eternity. I'm sure every single person watching around the world held their collective breaths. I can't help wondering if he was re-living that dreadful moment for the first time and his mind was in another place as he remembered her agonised screams.

 

[Colin de France]

For me, this was the most dramatic part of the entire trial. I'll never forget those 31 seconds. It was an eternity. I'm sure every single person watching around the world held their collective breaths. I can't help wondering if he was re-living that dreadful moment for the first time and his mind was in another place as he remembered her agonised screams.

If the first shot wasn't intended to kill the last three were ?

 

[Starmelody]

Regarding the jeans outside the bathroom window.

I've been wondering about this too. One scenario could be: reeva attempts to put on the first pair of jeans in the bedroom. Oscar grabs them and throws them to the floor. She then grabs another pair from her bag and runs to the bathroom to put them on. Oscar follows her and grabs them off her again and throws them out of the bathroom window. She then runs to the toilet and locks herself in. He kicks the metal plate on the bath in anger and then rushes to get his gun.

Just a possibility.

 

[Starmelody]

these are some of the key points
- something triggered a prolonged argument that ran into the early hours of the morning and delayed dinner. (Such as changes OP was making to the contract). The reason I believe it was a prolonged argument is because of the food contents in reevas stomach ( indicating she had eaten around 1 am). She ate late, so that indicates they had argued all night and not had time to eat earlier. I know that when I have had big arguments with my partner, the whole night is delayed and dinner is not eaten or eaten very late. It may have started off as a discussion between the 2 of them and escalated. From listening to him on the stand in court, he seems the type to not give in and just try to prove his point.

- things were thrown around in the bedroom ( jeans, bed cover)

- jeans may have been thrown out of the window

- bath plate kicked in rage

- 2 blackberry phones (that had not been used for a long time) were placed in the bathroom - obviously planted there to detract from the missing phone. Very suspicious. A give away that he was lying.

 

[Colin de France]

I have always been puzzled about the phone which was held back for two weeks before being handed into the police, this phone was sent to the makers to see whether information had been wiped off regarding calls, did this apply to photos taken on the phone ? To get to the point, was OP taking photos of RS without her knowledge to possibly be used later and did she catch on ? Far fetched but so is murder.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL MY DEAR FRIENDS​

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...-and-red-velvet-cake-in-sa-courts-during-2014

Fraud, sex, murder and red velvet cake in SA courts during 2014

Another high-profile case that dominated dinner table conversation was the murder trial of fallen hero Oscar Pistorius.

The country's first televised trial proved to be the best soapie in the land as many took leave from work due to "Oscar fever”.

The scrutiny of the world's media and the pressure of live television proved too much for a court interpreter, who refused to return after the first day. The interpreter, who shall remain anonymous to prevent embarrassment, and subsequent interpreters fumbled over their words and left witnesses lost in translation. Some witnesses settled for doing their own translation while others repeatedly corrected the interpreters.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.chron.com/sports/article/Ode-to-sports-in-2014-When-mayhem-won-the-gold-5985442.php

Ode to sports in 2014: When mayhem won the gold

Russia passes the flag to Korea —

So much for the luge, on to Crimea.

Michael Sam comes out, hailed for bold action.

The NFL thinks this a "distraction"?

At Daytona, Junior reigns in the rain.

Phil Jackson grabs a Manhattan-bound train.

Pistorius goes to trial, where he grieves

And he sobs and he sweats and shakes and heaves.

March Madness concludes and a Husky roars

For king/queen UConn — all roads lead to Storrs.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Jaco van Vuuren was the courtroom sketch artist during OP’s trial. He was formerly an international pole vaulter. Since 1992 he’s been coaching pole vaulters at the University of Pretoria, where his path first crossed with OP who was 16 at the time.

In early February 2013, he had a drink with OP to discuss helping the sprinter’s charity projects for amputees in Africa. At about 6.15am on Valentine’s Day he was woken by a phone call from a Beeld reporter who said, “Did you hear what your friend did?” Being sarcastic I said, “What friend, where?” He said, “No, Oscar’s shot his girlfriend”. On the track that day it was obviously a feeling of disbelief. It was indescribable. He trains there every day and he shot his girlfriend”.

Van Vuuren believes OP’s version of events, but adds a new, intriguing twist. “The one thing’s that not mentioned in court, and we still don’t know why it’s not been brought up: he was as nervous as hell a week before that happened. He was on the track and I heard this from another Olympian who trained with him. He was as nervous as hell as if something was bound to happen.” He believes there are secrets still to tell.

Van Vuuren, who hopes to sketch him in prison, relays a story he heard from a warden: “The biggest problem now for Oscar is the top brass at correctional services coming into his cell day and night and taking selfies with him. There’s no control and the lower ranks can’t chase them out, so Oscar is annoyed.”

Van Vuuren said Pistorius’s aunt called him recently because the 28-year-old wants to start sketching in his prison cell and is seeking tips.

“He takes it day by day. We have to know, whoever he is, whatever he did, he is probably a bigger survivor than all of us together, looking at what he went through in his life".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/pistorius-track-mate-drawing-court-van-vuuren

Once the dust settles, I'll bet there are plenty more secrets yet to come out.

IIRC, when OP was arrested for assaulting Cassidy Taylor-Memmory and taken to the police station, the SAPS were more interested in having their photo taken with him than dealing with the charge. So now he's in prison and the top brass want selfies with him????? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Very true… this has been discussed at length some time ago

- OP stated that he proceeded to the bathroom to protect Reeva… ergo, in his mind, being in bedroom whilst intruders were in the bathroom was more dangerous than proceeding to the bathroom to confront intruders.

- OP stated that he was sure that an intruder was in toilet because he heard the toilet door slam shut.

- OP stated that he was sure an intruder had climbed up a ladder and entered the bathroom through the window because he heard the bathroom window slam open and the toilet door slam shut.

- OP stated that he kept shifting his attention between the window and the door because other intruders could be on the ladder.

- OP stated that he shot 4 times at the door after he heard "wood moving".

… but according to OP himself :

- he did not know if he killed or even wounded the intruder in the toilet.

- he did not know if more intruders were outside and proceeding up the ladder to the bathroom.

… basically, the circumstances were exactly the same as when he first heard the window open BUT, for no apparent reason and no explanation, now it is safer to retreat out of the bathroom and take refuge in the bedroom ?!?

Not exactly the same. He knew after the first shot and Reeva's agonised screams that she'd been injured, and then there was utter silence after the following 3 shots. It was now safe for him to go and do whatever he wanted - not that he could say that in court, and I appreciate you were being facetious. What a pity didn't Nel address this. What lame excuse could OP have come up with to answer that?

 

[Starmelody]

Not exactly the same. He knew after the first shot and Reeva's agonised screams that she'd been injured, and then there was utter silence after the following 3 shots. It was now safe for him to go and do whatever he wanted - not that he could say that in court, and I appreciate you were being facetious. What a pity didn't Nel address this. What lame excuse could OP have come up with to answer that?

I do recall Nel questioning OP as to why he didn't check out the window for more intruders after he fired his gun. I will have to go back and check to make sure- but I do remember something along these lines.

 

[Colin de France]

Not exactly the same. He knew after the first shot and Reeva's agonised screams that she'd been injured, and then there was utter silence after the following 3 shots. It was now safe for him to go and do whatever he wanted - not that he could say that in court, and I appreciate you were being facetious. What a pity didn't Nel address this. What lame excuse could OP have come up with to answer that?

Of course......it was the difference between the reaction of RS after the first shot and the forth which allowed him to go back into the bedroom in complete security, he knew fully well there was no way that she was going to come out, if this theory holds up then murder it is even if there is a doubt about the intentions of the first shot. For the last three he shot her knowing where she was.

 

[AJ_DS]

Not exactly the same. He knew after the first shot and Reeva's agonised screams that she'd been injured, and then there was utter silence after the following 3 shots. It was now safe for him to go and do whatever he wanted - not that he could say that in court, and I appreciate you were being facetious. What a pity didn't Nel address this. What lame excuse could OP have come up with to answer that?

I was analyzing it from OP's version (the fabricated one) where the window plays a crucial role : it is heard opening, slamming, is the entry point of at least 1 intruder which hid in the toilet and is the the entry point of possibly more intruders.

…In what really happened, the only part the window plays is that it provides the means by which OP will fabricate the intruder story to cover up the fact that he deliberately shot Reeva

 

[JudgeJudi]

I was analyzing it from OP's version (the fabricated one) where the window plays a crucial role : it is heard opening, slamming, is the entry point of at least 1 intruder which hid in the toilet and is the the entry point of possibly more intruders.

…In what really happened, the only part the window plays is that it provides the means by which OP will fabricate the intruder story to cover up the fact that he deliberately shot Reeva

AJ, I absolutely understood you were referring to his version. I should have made that clearer.

 

[Colin de France]

OP declared she never screamed but then admitted he couldn’t hear!

...another incoherent declaration from OP ....

 

[JudgeJudi]

I've reached the point where I believe both brothers have a death wish. OP is prepared to drive twice the legal limit even after his boat crash, and Carl is a sandwich short of a picnic. Just read this:

Carl Pistorius ‏@carlpistorius
This year is going to be MASSIVE for us @Lysle_Turner @Phill_Cruize! Lysle... we'll have 2 rename from Lyslo to SUPERNOVA ��.
#bandofbrothers

Carl Pistorius ‏@carlpistorius
The mountaineer is @Lysle_Turner, he's invited me on his Everest 4 HD climb. Stil can't feel my legs, but @Phill_Cruize can get me in shape

He's got to be out of his mind. I know he's summited Mt Kili but if he thinks that's like climbing Everest he's got another think coming. He can't feel his legs!!!! and he's going in 3 months!!!!! Maybe it’s a case of big-noting and he’ll only go as far as the lowest base camp. I can't imagine in my wildest dreams that his doctors would approve of such an undertaking. Not only is he putting his own life at risk but what about his companions. Oh, that’s right, others don’t matter. Just like the other person involved in his car accident.

STILL no word about that other driver. Still no word on the results of Carl’s breath test. Still no word from the SAPS as to who was at fault. Speculation ... Carl was at fault. Why? Because the next thing we hear is that Arnold’s rhino horns go missing from that large walk-in safe and STILL no word on that. Totally unbelievable.

Carl's accident was on August 2. Approx. 7 weeks later Arnold had his rhino horns stolen. News of this surfaced on October 6. How very convenient that we've heard nothing further about either incident. Those rhino horns would be worth more than enough to buy silence and compensation. I'm afraid that when it comes to this family, I don't believe in coincidences. They lie, steal and cover up anything and everything to protect the family name and they have the power, will, influence and money to do pretty much as they please. One imagines they have plenty of rugs in Arnold's home with all the dirt that has to be swept underneath them. :tantrum: