Nehemiah
Well-Known Member
Ivy said:
Don't let Lin Wood find out! :silenced:
DNA From JonBenet's Clothes Given to FBI
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Don't let Lin Wood find out! :silenced:
BlueCrab
New Member
Tristan said:
I believe Burke was directly involved in the death of JonBenet, but he may not have been the actual killer. My main theory is that the death was an accident, followed by a grisly staging of the crime scene. Therefore, there was no motive for murder since it was an accidental death by asphyxiation. However, the evidence pointing to Burke's involvement is overwhelming.
I have several BDI theories, all but one of them based on the premise that a fifth person was in the house that night -- and that fifth person was likely a close friend and perhaps the actual killer.
With respect to motive for the coverup, I think it was to protect Burke and the fifth person, as well as others in the family, from embarrassment since the accidental killing involved children and erotic asphyxiation sex.
Just my opinion.
BlueCrab
.
Shylock
Former Member
I don't think a 10 year old kid needs a "motive". It could have been just a fit of anger.Tristan said:
The other thing is that the sexual molestation is so "child-like", it was probably Burke playing "doctor". Maybe he hurt her with his "doctor's tool" (the broken paint stick), and when she tried to cry out or tell her parents, he silenced her with a smack over the head with the flashlight.
K777angel
Member
This is all such hogwash.
Think about it: The Ramseys and L. Wood KNOW that there will never be a
"match" in that criminal database because none of the Ramseys are in it, nor is the factory undie packer over in Asia.
Good grief.
How safe for them.
How misleading.
What a perfect PR move Limp. You must be getting paid handsomely.
Why don't you REALLY do something to show the Ramseys willingness to cooperate and their "innocence" and have all 3 of them submit to the FBI's
polygraph experts!!
C'mon! The FBI obviously meets your standards now and you trust them - or why else would you allow them to test your "DNA blood sample"????
Be consistent and then maybe the public will believe you. :crazy:
Think about it: The Ramseys and L. Wood KNOW that there will never be a
"match" in that criminal database because none of the Ramseys are in it, nor is the factory undie packer over in Asia.
Good grief.
How safe for them.
How misleading.
What a perfect PR move Limp. You must be getting paid handsomely.
Why don't you REALLY do something to show the Ramseys willingness to cooperate and their "innocence" and have all 3 of them submit to the FBI's
polygraph experts!!
C'mon! The FBI obviously meets your standards now and you trust them - or why else would you allow them to test your "DNA blood sample"????
Be consistent and then maybe the public will believe you. :crazy:
Afton
New Member
Just the fact that it is entered into the FBI Database is a real plus....Cold Cases can be solved years later....
Intruders are brazen enough to enter homes ...Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klaas are just two examples.
Roy Black had a case in Flordia where the father was accused of killing his daughter and it turned out to be the next door neighbor's carpet cleaner.
Quote: "Test results in 1997 and 1999 were not of high-enough quality to submit to the database, but a new DNA profile was worked up and submitted last month, Wood said.
Keenan would say only that DNA information in the case has been sent to the database. Wood was more specific: The test results are from DNA from a male unrelated to the Ramseys that was found intermingled with JonBenets blood in her underwear."
And I give Lin Wood Credit, they should have had him from the beginning as their attorney...When the "no foot prints in the snow" and other innuendoes flew fast and furious to paint the Ramseys as their daughter's killer.
Intruders are brazen enough to enter homes ...Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klaas are just two examples.
Roy Black had a case in Flordia where the father was accused of killing his daughter and it turned out to be the next door neighbor's carpet cleaner.
Quote: "Test results in 1997 and 1999 were not of high-enough quality to submit to the database, but a new DNA profile was worked up and submitted last month, Wood said.
Keenan would say only that DNA information in the case has been sent to the database. Wood was more specific: The test results are from DNA from a male unrelated to the Ramseys that was found intermingled with JonBenets blood in her underwear."
And I give Lin Wood Credit, they should have had him from the beginning as their attorney...When the "no foot prints in the snow" and other innuendoes flew fast and furious to paint the Ramseys as their daughter's killer.
K777angel
Member
Hello! Polly Klaas and Elizabeth Smart (as well as Danielle VanDam while we're at it) were victims of someone "brazen" enough to enter the home at night.
BUT - and this is a HUGE "but" - THE KIDNAPPER TOOK THEM OUT OF THE HOME.
There is no comparison whatsoever to the JonBenet Ramsey case.
The only comparison you can make to the JonBenet case would be a child discovered sexually abused and killed and LEFT dead in her own home.
There are sadly - plenty of those to choose from.
And 12-1 the perp will be a family member. THAT is the category in which to place JonBenet Ramsey. Found dead and molested in her OWN home. Not abducted.
BUT - and this is a HUGE "but" - THE KIDNAPPER TOOK THEM OUT OF THE HOME.
There is no comparison whatsoever to the JonBenet Ramsey case.
The only comparison you can make to the JonBenet case would be a child discovered sexually abused and killed and LEFT dead in her own home.
There are sadly - plenty of those to choose from.
And 12-1 the perp will be a family member. THAT is the category in which to place JonBenet Ramsey. Found dead and molested in her OWN home. Not abducted.
Afton
New Member
There are plenty of people that are murdered and left in their homes. How many children that happened to however, maybe small in numbers (if any--I have never checked with the many states and databases to see), but IMO it could happen in this case as well as in other cases. The Roy Black case in Florida may have been one...Roy Black was on TV and the case interested me and I posted about it.
tipper
Former Member
"And 12-1 the perp will be a family member"
I think if you narrow the age of the victim to match JonBenet's you'll find those numbers change.
I think if you narrow the age of the victim to match JonBenet's you'll find those numbers change.
Barbara
New Member
Afton said:
But, how many of those people murdered and left in their homes ALSO had a three page ransom note left?
I defy anyone to come up with even one
Ivy
Inactive
The JonBenet case is the only known case where a child was found murdered in her home and the murderer not only left the body behind but also left a ransom letter. The murderer left no trace of himself in the house...no hair, no fibers, no blood, no semen, no footprints or fingerprints, no nothing, INCLUDING NO DNA. That is why he had to leave the ransom letter...to prove to LE that he existed.
If the murderer hadn't left a ransom letter, one or both of the Ramseys would surely have been charged with JonBenet's murder, and being a nice person deep down, the murderer didn't want the Rs to take the rap for him. Anyway, that's how I see it. Yuppers, uh-huh.
If the murderer hadn't left a ransom letter, one or both of the Ramseys would surely have been charged with JonBenet's murder, and being a nice person deep down, the murderer didn't want the Rs to take the rap for him. Anyway, that's how I see it. Yuppers, uh-huh.
Afton
New Member
In the year 2525 the DNA in the FBI database just might match --and there were fibers that were not matched, but setting that aside until the year 2525..
From the Protess & Warden book written about the Dowaliby case, "In each case, the police targeted the parents based on two assumptions that proved wrong---first, that missing children invariably are taken by family members, and second, that strangers cannot enter homes in the middle of the night and snatch children without awakening parents. It is a fact and is also well within the behavior range of intruder child killings.... The DA will have to prove that no one else could have entered the house."Serra Mesa, California:
Another case:
Eight-year old Alicia" was abducted on May 8, 1989, by an intruder who entered her home through a window, took her out of her bed raped her, and put her back.... Her father was charged with rape.... while he was awaitng trial, forensic tests exonerated him and implicated a man with prior convictions for child molestation.
This child told investigators from the very beginning that a man had entered her bedroom window. In the end, DNA from semen found on her panties matched him to a known pedophile who had used the same method of entry in other cases and who lived near Alicia and her family
Many such cases are unsolved.
The point being that murders and crime scenes can be a first. Do you remember the List case....The meek accountant that killed his wife, children and his mother in law and left a note...Vanished and was not found until many years later when it was profiled on TV and an a cast was made of his face from photographs using the aging process. I don't recall another case like that.
--and there were fibers that were not matched, but setting that aside until the year 2525..From the Protess & Warden book written about the Dowaliby case, "In each case, the police targeted the parents based on two assumptions that proved wrong---first, that missing children invariably are taken by family members, and second, that strangers cannot enter homes in the middle of the night and snatch children without awakening parents. It is a fact and is also well within the behavior range of intruder child killings.... The DA will have to prove that no one else could have entered the house."Serra Mesa, California:
Another case:
Eight-year old Alicia" was abducted on May 8, 1989, by an intruder who entered her home through a window, took her out of her bed raped her, and put her back.... Her father was charged with rape.... while he was awaitng trial, forensic tests exonerated him and implicated a man with prior convictions for child molestation.
This child told investigators from the very beginning that a man had entered her bedroom window. In the end, DNA from semen found on her panties matched him to a known pedophile who had used the same method of entry in other cases and who lived near Alicia and her family
Many such cases are unsolved.
The point being that murders and crime scenes can be a first. Do you remember the List case....The meek accountant that killed his wife, children and his mother in law and left a note...Vanished and was not found until many years later when it was profiled on TV and an a cast was made of his face from photographs using the aging process. I don't recall another case like that.
Barbara
New Member
"The point being that murders and crime scenes can be a first. "
I've been saying that for seven years. It comes up every time posters use the rationale that the family COULDN'T be involved because there is no history, no pathology, etc., etc.
Yes, there is always a first time
I've been saying that for seven years. It comes up every time posters use the rationale that the family COULDN'T be involved because there is no history, no pathology, etc., etc.
Yes, there is always a first time
K777angel
Member
Right on Barbara!
There are a number of cold hard facts (reasons) the authorities and experts HAD to be suspicious of the parents right away.
First and foremost was the 'ransom letter' left. Red flags all over.
The sheer length of it was their downfall.
Then you've got the personal and intimate language and tone.
Not to mention it amounted to nothing related to the crime other than an attempt to divert attention away from the real perp.
Nothing in that note was true or came true. Nothing.
Child found dead in her home. Not only that - to make it even MORE suspicious - a 'ransom note' existed and was placed there.
If it were just a molested, beaten and dead child in the basement and NO note - it would have been less suspicious. Too bad the Ramseys - or Patsy didn't think that one through.
Child turns out to have been molested. Therein lies the motivation behind the rage that ended up taking her life.
The FBI and police probably were not at all surprised when they got this news following the autopsy.
It all started to fit.........
Dad calls for a plane to rush them out of Dodge right away only minutes after
'finding' his daughter dead!
Claims he did this out of 'fear for their safety' - and yet he feared not for his little boy sitting helplessly over at the White's for hours after finding JonBenet dead! Didn't rush right to him to protect him from the 'foreign faction' who might now try and nab him - not to mention protect him from hearing the news of his sister's death from the t.v. or someone other than his parents....
Some "fear" he had for their safety.
Too much to list.
Cannot deny these FACTS.
There are a number of cold hard facts (reasons) the authorities and experts HAD to be suspicious of the parents right away.
First and foremost was the 'ransom letter' left. Red flags all over.
The sheer length of it was their downfall.
Then you've got the personal and intimate language and tone.
Not to mention it amounted to nothing related to the crime other than an attempt to divert attention away from the real perp.
Nothing in that note was true or came true. Nothing.
Child found dead in her home. Not only that - to make it even MORE suspicious - a 'ransom note' existed and was placed there.
If it were just a molested, beaten and dead child in the basement and NO note - it would have been less suspicious. Too bad the Ramseys - or Patsy didn't think that one through.
Child turns out to have been molested. Therein lies the motivation behind the rage that ended up taking her life.
The FBI and police probably were not at all surprised when they got this news following the autopsy.
It all started to fit.........
Dad calls for a plane to rush them out of Dodge right away only minutes after
'finding' his daughter dead!
Claims he did this out of 'fear for their safety' - and yet he feared not for his little boy sitting helplessly over at the White's for hours after finding JonBenet dead! Didn't rush right to him to protect him from the 'foreign faction' who might now try and nab him - not to mention protect him from hearing the news of his sister's death from the t.v. or someone other than his parents....
Some "fear" he had for their safety.
Too much to list.
Cannot deny these FACTS.
Ivy
Inactive
List didn't leave an Intruder Ransom Note, did he? He left behind a letter admitting to having murdered his family. The List case has no similarity whatsoever to the JonBenet case.
In the Dowaliby case, the child's body was removed from the house (or she was killed after being taken from the house), and there was no ransom note left behind.
In Elisa's case, her rapist left semen behind, which immediately exonerated her father, as did her testimony that it wasn't her father who raped her. Elisa was not killed, nor did the rapist leave behind a ransom note. Her case has no similarity whatsoever to the JonBenet case.
Yes, there are "firsts" but odds are against there being any "firsts" where, right in her very own home, under the noses of her parents and brother, a child is taken from her bed by an intruder who feeds her pineapple from her very own fridge, then gently molests her, strangles her and fractures her skull, even though his objective was actually kidnapping, as indicated by the ransom note mimicking the child's mother's handwriting that he left behind despite leaving the child's body as well.
In the Dowaliby case, the child's body was removed from the house (or she was killed after being taken from the house), and there was no ransom note left behind.
In Elisa's case, her rapist left semen behind, which immediately exonerated her father, as did her testimony that it wasn't her father who raped her. Elisa was not killed, nor did the rapist leave behind a ransom note. Her case has no similarity whatsoever to the JonBenet case.
Yes, there are "firsts" but odds are against there being any "firsts" where, right in her very own home, under the noses of her parents and brother, a child is taken from her bed by an intruder who feeds her pineapple from her very own fridge, then gently molests her, strangles her and fractures her skull, even though his objective was actually kidnapping, as indicated by the ransom note mimicking the child's mother's handwriting that he left behind despite leaving the child's body as well.
If the BPD took the entire package of day-of-the-week panties, then why couldn't they test the dna of the inspector? There is always an inspector number in the packages of underwear.
Not only was JonBenet at Pasta Jays the evening of Dec 24, but she was also at the home of her little friend Kostanic (sp?)...her mother told BPD that JonBenet told them of her visit with a Santa and it was a secret....
...if you want her to see 1997...Ransom Note
...we'll be seeing the orthodontist in 1997!...1996 Ramsey Christmas Card
Not only was JonBenet at Pasta Jays the evening of Dec 24, but she was also at the home of her little friend Kostanic (sp?)...her mother told BPD that JonBenet told them of her visit with a Santa and it was a secret....
...if you want her to see 1997...Ransom Note
...we'll be seeing the orthodontist in 1997!...1996 Ramsey Christmas Card
Ivy
Inactive
Excellent idea, Toltec! And in case the DNA came from a worker and not the inspector, comparing the FBI sample to samples taken from the other panties in the package could also eliminate an Intruder. I wonder if the remaining panties were tested for DNA.
sissi
Former Member
The dna was from a blood stain in her underwear. There were two blood stains,in the one they couldn't get enough markers however from this latest test with the second blood stain they managed to get a sample suitable for comparison. Nowhere does anyone suggest the panties themselves had dna in areas other than in the blood stains. There is every reason to believe the dna belongs to her killer. Sadly some consider Burke as her killer,IMO this is sad,nothing suggests fibers ,dna,blood,skin,hair,or anything on her body can be sourced to Burke.
I just pray, the other players in Boulder are having their swabs compared.
IMO JMO
I just pray, the other players in Boulder are having their swabs compared.
IMO JMO
Ivy
Inactive
sissi...my understanding is that the DNA sample sent to the FBI came from beneath a spot of JonBenet's blood. Wood likes to say the DNA sample was co-mingled with her blood, but experts theorize it's more likely that the blood dripped onto a smidgen of DNA, which was probably DNA from a sneeze or cough or sigh or touch from a worker in the underwear factory. As Maxi and others have pointed out, the DNA sample was miniscule, and if it was really connected to the case, it would have been larger, and there would have been more samples than just one or two small ones.
Sabrina
Former Member
Toltec, to answer your question I just took a peak at some new unopened packages of things I have around. No inspector labels except inside a Fieldcrest towel, made in U.S.A. I am thinking perhaps only U.S. made products may include the inspector number.
But it is a good question-- what happened to the package AND the other panties? Were those particular panties tested-- or maybe the BPD did not take the package.
But it is a good question-- what happened to the package AND the other panties? Were those particular panties tested-- or maybe the BPD did not take the package.
Toth
Inactive
They did not. Nor did the take the other panties that remained in the package. They had no desire to test them.Sabrina said: