do you think maddie is alive or dead

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Do you think Maddie is Alive or Not?

  • alive

    Votes: 12 3.4%
  • Not

    Votes: 46 12.9%
  • Alive and parents innocent

    Votes: 33 9.2%
  • Dead and parents not innocent

    Votes: 166 46.5%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 37 10.4%
  • Dead and parents are innocent

    Votes: 63 17.6%

  • Total voters
    357
Status
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There was no smith sighting of gerry. Not one smith at the time identified gerry, only one of them later said by body language alone it may have been gerry but they were far from certain and stressed they never identified the face and were not supported by the others in their party, and several other witnesses inc. MW staff put gerry elsewhere. It is untrue the smiths positively identified gerry..

There is a Smith sighting of Gerry, further a positive ID of Gerry carrying Madeleine.

This has been linked many, many times, as well you know.


No swabs have ever been identified as containing the dna of madeleine, no swabs that coudl have been the dna of madeleine were identified at an alert site. The only dna that was ever identified at an alert site was found to come from someone who was alive. So the logical explanation for your claims, is that they are incorrect and do not match up with the evidence.
If you have evidence that says the smiths positively identified gerry, that madeleine's dna was identified, that her dna was found at an alert site, and that the alert sites mean there was definitley a body there as opposed to grimes, harrisons, and ORs statements that the evrd alerted to bodily fluids from living donors then please provide it. TIA.
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DNA does not change whether the donor is alive or dead, so that statement is false.

Please provide a link to your claim.

Tink,
The harrison report makes it clear that madeleine could not have been dumped in the sea or the beach by the mccanns given the witness timelines of when the mccanns were at the complex.
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The Harrison Report is theory only. The timeline of the evening remains unclear. This is in the PJ report in no uncertain terms.

As for knowing if the patio doors were unlocked, the patio doors were of the sliding door variety that cannot be locked from the outside, so if gerry was seen to leave by the patio door then it was obvious to anyone watching they were unlocked.
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Please explain why two caring and intelligent people would leave their children alone in an unlocked room?

so if the mccanns disposed of her body it was not at the beach or the sea, so it had to be somewhere else, somewhere the public could access and did not require digging materials. and whilst people might not notice a man carrying a child they tend to notice them burying or disposing of them.
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He was noticed.

See: the Smiths.

as for the risks an abductor took - is this not the same with any abduction? Polly klass for one was taen from her home, jaycee lee dugaard was taken in broad daylgiht in full view, a little girl called jessica was taken from he rhome by a neighbour and dispite the fact she was over ten she did nto scream. Child abductors take risks, as taking a child is never going to be risk free.
Also sleeping children do not tend to wake easily - and someone watching the flat would have seen gerry only spend a couple of minutes there so had a good idea the children were fast asleep. Plus the abductor was not to know gerry was on the road chatting, and even if the children did scream the abductor could have gone by the time someone ran in. Lets face it, there is always the possibility it was another robbery and this one went wrong, and the reason madeleine was taken was because she woke up and the intruder paniked. It coudl very easily have gone wrong for the abductor, and if that had happened this would have been a one day wonder of a british couple catching an intruder in their holiday flat. The abductor took a risk like all child abductors and it paid off. Look at the case of katrice lee major, she disappeared in a space of less than two minutes in a busy supermarket and not one person saw a thing, yet she was abducted an the abductor took a huge risk in taking her and got away with it. recently a cas ein the UK, a little girl was seen getting into a vehicle and sadly so far has not been found. However there was a child witness and a man has been arrested and charged with her abduction and murder - the abductor took a huge risk in taking her like this, and if the police have charged the correct person it did not pay off in that the person was caught. Can you think of any crimes against a child that do not involve the risk of being caught?
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You speak of other known abductions but there is no known abductor in this case, nor any evidence of one, no matter how many scenarios you borrow, so none of these cases are the remotest bit similar to Madeleine's disappearance, nor even relevant.

and the alarm was raised at ten, no-one claimed the abduction happened then, so people were being asked to think if they had seen anything suspicious that evening.
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Not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

Donjeta the one hour comes from the fact that gerry was at tennis between six and seven thirty. Of course kate could have done it in the hour and a half gerry was away, but then the same problems arise - finding such a good hiding place on foot in a publicly accesssible place without one witness. Plus why hide the body if the mccanns were in the flat when it happened, children have accidents all the time why cover one up, and if there was an accident that was covered up then woudl nto blood have been spilt and cleaning products used, yet according to forensics this did not happen.

Why would there be blood spilt?

If Madeleine fell and broke her neck, she would appear perfect, as though she were asleep.

There is a very good reason why they would cover it up. They would lose their careers, their reputations, their friends, possibly their remaining children, their livliehoods.

That's what I call a motive...so would the prosecution if someone had enough guts to take it to court IMO.
 
It is a falsehood to claim the smiths positively identified gerry. At the time all of them said they could not identify the man. Several weeks later all but one stuck to this, but one of them said he could not positively identify the man (as it was dark and he did not have his glasses), and he could not identify the face, but by the body language he thought there was a 60% chance it could be gerry. However the rest of the smiths did nto agree, and several witnesses at the complex stated they were 100% sure gerry was with them. So it is an untruth to claim the smiths stated they saw gerry.

The only dna identified at an alert site was identified as belonginf to gerry mccann. gerry mccann is alive. If you believe he is dead and that is part of the cover-up I suggest you contact the police.

At no point was madeleine's dna ever positvely identified aside from the reference sample. At no point was any dna that could even have been hers found at an alert site.

Just because an abductor has not yet been identified does nto mean he doe snot exist. No abductor has been identified in the katrice lee case, it doe snot mean she was nto abducted. The PJ and AG have stated there is no evidence the mccanns committed any crime, and sy have stated it was a stranger abducted. the only people disagree are randoms on the internet.

The harison report is a clear list of facts about the tides and the times. It is not a theory as to the times of the tides. Plenty of witnesses put the mccanns at the complex at the relevant times.

Why would they lose their careers, reputations etc just because their child died. Obviously there are always going to be nasty people who enjoy persecuting victims of tragedy, but these are not the general population. the general population feels sympathy for the mccanns now, and would still feel sympathy for the mccanns if their child had died accidently.

The ag who are responsible for taking cases to court stated there was no evidence against them. if anyone knows differently then pass the evidence on to them.
 
It is a falsehood to claim the smiths positively identified gerry. At the time all of them said they could not identify the man. Several weeks later all but one stuck to this, but one of them said he could not positively identify the man (as it was dark and he did not have his glasses), and he could not identify the face, but by the body language he thought there was a 60% chance it could be gerry. However the rest of the smiths did nto agree, and several witnesses at the complex stated they were 100% sure gerry was with them. So it is an untruth to claim the smiths stated they saw gerry..

Mr Martin Smith was so distressed by what he had seen on the television that he hopped in his car and voluntarily drove himself to his local police station, where he presented as shaken and anxious.

UK police communication re: Martin Smith's sighting, 20 September 2007
Processos Vol XIII
Pages 3996 – 3997 (in English)
Email from John Hughes to DIC Portimao, C.C. to Stuart Prior
20th September 2007
Subject: Fwd Smith family
From Lindsay Long to John Hughes
20th September 2007
Re – Smith family
Location : Portugal Out of Force Area
Origin: Mr Martin Smith Ireland.
Text: Reported that he had passed a male carrying a child in Praia da Luz the night Maddie went missing. Went and made a statement to Portugal police in Portimao on 26th May and returned to UK. Is saying that after seeing the McCanns on the news on 9th Sept when they returned to UK he has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 PM news on BBC and saw the McCanns getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the male seen the night Maddie went missing . He also watched ITV news and Sky news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of OP task ring him back. He was with group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite worried and shaken whilst speaking to me.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

"It was exactly the same way and look of the male seen the night Maddie went missing".

Sounds like a positive ID to me, and most other people, so please stop posting that no one identified Gerry. They did. And they were very, very disturbed by it.

The only dna identified at an alert site was identified as belonginf to gerry mccann. gerry mccann is alive. If you believe he is dead and that is part of the cover-up I suggest you contact the police.
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Incorrect. DNA was found which belonged to Kate and Madeleine or Amelie also.

From: "Prior Stuart" <Stuart.Prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk>
To: "Task Portugal" <Task.Portugal@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk>
Sent: 04 September 2007 10:14
Subject: FW: Op Task - in Confidence

---

>From: Lowe, Mr J R [mailto:John.Lowe@fss.pnn.police.uk
>Sent: 03 September 2007 15:01
>To: stuart.prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk
>Subject: Op Task - In Confidence

Stuart

Firstly, here are the last three results you are expecting...Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart...Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item;..."Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab?"
It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id268.html

Madeleine's DNA is made up of 50% Kates and 50% Gerrys, therefore it goes without saying that Kate's DNA was found also.

I have no clue how you can magic the above into "only Gerry's DNA" especially when you claim to know so much about it?

At no point was madeleine's dna ever positvely identified aside from the reference sample. At no point was any dna that could even have been hers found at an alert site.
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Patently false. See above.

Just because an abductor has not yet been identified does nto mean he doe snot exist. No abductor has been identified in the katrice lee case, it doe snot mean she was nto abducted. The PJ and AG have stated there is no evidence the mccanns committed any crime, and sy have stated it was a stranger abducted. the only people disagree are randoms on the internet.
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They did? When and where? Link please.

Oh wait, you're talking about Andy Redmond who went on breakfast tv to tell everyone what he thought, one quarter of the way through their "review"?

Is that supposed to be official? Is it on the SY website?

I hate to shatter your illusions, but you are a Random On The Internet too.

The harison report is a clear list of facts about the tides and the times. It is not a theory as to the times of the tides. Plenty of witnesses put the mccanns at the complex at the relevant times.
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Please link to these witnesses.

The PJ report says they were unable to confirm anyone's whereabouts before 10pm that night.


Why would they lose their careers, reputations etc just because their child died. Obviously there are always going to be nasty people who enjoy persecuting victims of tragedy, but these are not the general population. the general population feels sympathy for the mccanns now, and would still feel sympathy for the mccanns if their child had died accidently.
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It wasn't an accident. It would have been an accident if she fell while in her parent's care.

As they weren't there, it is clear and unmistakeable proof of neglect.

Accidents are something unforeseen. I'm no heart surgeon but even I can figure out that leaving 3 babies alone in an unlocked foreign hotel room while you go out on the booze, is a bad idea.

Kate especially as a GP would frequently be advising parents not to go out to the pub while the baby's asleep, surely?

The ag who are responsible for taking cases to court stated there was no evidence against them. if anyone knows differently then pass the evidence on to them.

Please provide the link to that as it is news to me.

Once again we've had the role call - the PJ bash, the Forensics bash, the Smiths bash, wait you forgot Amaral this time...

Once again I request a viable alternative scenario, instead of rehashing the same old defense, which is comprised mainly of offence?
 
Originally Posted by brit1981
The ag who are responsible for taking cases to court stated there was no evidence against them. if anyone knows differently then pass the evidence on to them.
____


And? Means there was no evidence doesnt mean they are cleared at all seeing as the attorney general also said they dont know what the crime is therefore not definitely an abduction, so they didnt find any evidence for that either, ergo the pt authorities have said there is no evidence of abduction, simple really and thats why its a cold case, all avenues open
 
Amaral says that the Portugese review being undertaken right now is "not going well for the McCanns".

I bet it isn't....and it's about freakin time.
 
well Amaral is a convicted criminal who s no longer with the police let alone with that case, so if anyone had told him anythign about the review they have done so illegally. But it is good that he is blabbed about this, as it means the leak can be investigated.

Neither the mccanns or murat have to be cleared by law. They along with everyone else are automatically considered in the clear unless evidence against them is found. The AG stated that there was no evidence that any of the three had committed ANY crime whatsoever.

And if her parents were not there when madeleine died, then it measn she died after eight thirty when they were seen appaearing at dinner, and ten when people started searching the flat and did nto find her. this therefore means that since the mccanns were each only alone for five minutes during this one hour and a half, that they had to come back to the flat, find her dead, decided she coudl nto be helped, decide to hide the death, and then hide her body in the village whilst on foot, with no digging implements in a public accessible place somewhere it was never ever found, with not one witness all within five minutes whilst their partner was at dinner. They then had to go back to the tapas bar, and surrounded by eight other peopel at their table plus staff and other guests tell their partner what had happened, and tell jane tanner and possibly matt oldfield to concoct a lie. I can just imagine that coversation, which means that as kate was seen coming back screaming by guests and staff and so did not have a chance to tell anyone else anything, it means gerry did this on his check. Which also means that he was extremely cool, as well as lucky as he had no reason to know jermey wilkins would be there. I can also imagine that conversation when he got back to the table - "sorry I am late back darling, but i was chatting to a tennis friend. Oh by the way when i went back to the flat I found our eldest daughter dead, so i thought we shoudl cover it up, and therefore i have already dumped the body somewhere in the village - it only took two minutes. Oh and will everyone else mind helping cover-up the death too. I know i have only met some of you a couple fo times, and in fact have only met one of you since being here on holiday, but you don't mind do you?".
And once again is it any wonder the conspiracy theories do not get taken seriously.

But It sounds as if you now think the only reason her parents alleles were there were because it was madeleine's dna. However, you forget that the material found in the boot, could not be said to be madeleine's because it was a mixed sample from up to five people, and contained no identifiable sequence. It was just a mixture of alleles that could have been donated by anyone or any number of the three to five donors. Therefore it is impossible to say who donated those 15 alleles. there is no way anyone can say madeleine donated them and not her parents. In fact it is impossible to say whether these allelese even came from one person. they could have come from up to five people.

and yes I am a random on the internet, but then I am also not demanding scotland yard show me all their evidence, or chirply going along accusing people of things without a shred of evidence. I do not have that sense of self entitlement.
 
I should also say that when people post the quote from the lowe report stating it is simple to say it belonged to madeleine, they have for some unknown reason missed out the next part which then goes on to explain why it is not possible to claim it is madeleine,s and how it coudl ahve come from any of the mccanns. It is extremely misrepresentative of the facts when people chop this bit out.

Also smith never said he definitly say gerry, he said he recognize donly body language but was not thta much more than fifty fifty certain. the rest of his party did nto agree with him, and the other numerous witnesses such as staff and guests put gerry at the complex at this time. It is also worth noting that it is unlikely smiths 60% id would even be allowed in an EU court, as he made it only once he became aware gerry was an aguido and after he had seen gerry in the media repeatedly. This would mean that the ID was very unreliable, as people will often recognize a person if they are shown a photo of them and told they are a POI or suspect. BUt given he was far from certain and admitted he did nto see the face, and only was going by the way he carried a child ( and there was nothign abnormal about how gerry carried the child when coming off the 'plane), none of his party agreed with him, and many more people put gerry elsewhere with absolute certainty then it is unlikely his sighting would ever have been taken seriously by the judges anyway. In fact the PJ dismissed it.
 
Hi my first post on this amazing site. The Maddie case is always one that has caught my attention, as you will see from my profile i'm a member of the Gardai in Ireland.

My problem with the McCanns is how they have gone about things since the disappearance. I've heard them on many occasions refer to Maddie in the past-tense. Always get very aggitated when anything is mentioned that might suggest that they were in involved in the disappearance of their daughter.

Also in my experience 1 lie or 1 inaccurate detail about any crime is enough to make someone a suspect. Why tell a lie if completely innocent? Why try to hide facts and minor details if 100% innocent.

Anyhow nice to meet you guys and look forward to joining in and helping in any way i can.

ID
 
Hello and welcome ID

You make excellent points

It certainly does not appear to be an open and shut abduction case
 
well Amaral is a convicted criminal who s no longer with the police let alone with that case, so if anyone had told him anythign about the review they have done so illegally. But it is good that he is blabbed about this, as it means the leak can be investigated.

Neither the mccanns or murat have to be cleared by law. They along with everyone else are automatically considered in the clear unless evidence against them is found. The AG stated that there was no evidence that any of the three had committed ANY crime whatsoever.

And if her parents were not there when madeleine died, then it measn she died after eight thirty when they were seen appaearing at dinner, and ten when people started searching the flat and did nto find her. this therefore means that since the mccanns were each only alone for five minutes during this one hour and a half, that they had to come back to the flat, find her dead, decided she coudl nto be helped, decide to hide the death, and then hide her body in the village whilst on foot, with no digging implements in a public accessible place somewhere it was never ever found, with not one witness all within five minutes whilst their partner was at dinner. They then had to go back to the tapas bar, and surrounded by eight other peopel at their table plus staff and other guests tell their partner what had happened, and tell jane tanner and possibly matt oldfield to concoct a lie. I can just imagine that coversation, which means that as kate was seen coming back screaming by guests and staff and so did not have a chance to tell anyone else anything, it means gerry did this on his check. Which also means that he was extremely cool, as well as lucky as he had no reason to know jermey wilkins would be there. I can also imagine that conversation when he got back to the table - "sorry I am late back darling, but i was chatting to a tennis friend. Oh by the way when i went back to the flat I found our eldest daughter dead, so i thought we shoudl cover it up, and therefore i have already dumped the body somewhere in the village - it only took two minutes. Oh and will everyone else mind helping cover-up the death too. I know i have only met some of you a couple fo times, and in fact have only met one of you since being here on holiday, but you don't mind do you?".
And once again is it any wonder the conspiracy theories do not get taken seriously.

But It sounds as if you now think the only reason her parents alleles were there were because it was madeleine's dna. However, you forget that the material found in the boot, could not be said to be madeleine's because it was a mixed sample from up to five people, and contained no identifiable sequence. It was just a mixture of alleles that could have been donated by anyone or any number of the three to five donors. Therefore it is impossible to say who donated those 15 alleles. there is no way anyone can say madeleine donated them and not her parents. In fact it is impossible to say whether these allelese even came from one person. they could have come from up to five people.

and yes I am a random on the internet, but then I am also not demanding scotland yard show me all their evidence, or chirply going along accusing people of things without a shred of evidence. I do not have that sense of self entitlement.

I find your writing kind of hard to read and I am still trying to figure out what "chirply" means. But I will make a couple of comments.

In an earlier post you commented on how any child abduction is risky. There is some truth to that, but I think this situation is somewhat exceptionally risky, given the (according to the testimony of the group) irregular and fairly frequent checks they were doing. It just doesn't seem logical that someone who is good enough at planning to escape completely undetected, leaving no evidence, and not caught after all these years would take such a high-risk approach. Most of the other abductors who did these risky situations were caught, often very soon after.

You keep claiming that there is not a shred of evidence that the McCanns were involved. Behaviour before and after the incident is considered evidence, at least where I live. It is not as strong as, for example, DNA evidence or eye-witness evidence, but it is evidence. Take the Scott Peterson case, for example. There is no physical evidence in that case, but his behaviour (his affair, his lying, etc.) was enough to convict him of murder.

I do think the timelines allow for various options. You suggested it was not possible for her body to be taken to the ocean prior to dinner (although I am not entirely clear why not). Maybe she was hidden in the apartment of one of the others, since they all apparently left the doors unlocked, and moved later. I still think she ended up in the ocean and that's why her body was never found.

My impression of Gerry is that he would make decisions quickly, that Kate would follow his decision, and that he has the ability to hide his emotions and appear cool and relaxed. I saw the video of him laughing and joking just days after Madeleine was, as he says, abducted. That is so different from the behaviour of others I've known who lost children that it makes me highly suspicious. And there are many other killers who we know were very capable of acting perfectly calm and relaxed within minutes of killing. I've posted before about Paul and Karla Bernardo who left the body of a teenage girl in their home while they went to enjoy Easter dinner with their families. Nobody suspected a thing.

I don't think there was a need to conspire with their dinner companions (unless, perhaps, they hid her body in one apartment. I imagine they would choose their closest friend for that and get his help). I think the others simply didn't suspect that their friends might be involved - who would?

However, some of their behaviours are a bit odd as well. I am puzzled by their immediately sitting down to create a timeline of who was where and what time they did checks. Why on earth would that matter? My only thought is that perhaps the McCanns urged them to do that, hoping to strengthen their story.

You asked in an earlier post about motive. I think if we understood the motive, we would have the solution to this mystery. The McCann's suggestion that she was taken by someone who wanted a child to raise as their own seems ridiculous to me, as I have said before. With that motive, it would make far more sense to take one of the twins, who were younger, less easily identified and not likely to remember their parents or be able to talk about them. The most likely motivation if she was abducted is sexual.

If the McCann's were involved, there are a number of possible motives - we just don't know. It could be that the McCanns did something to cause her death, intentionally or not. It could be that she died accidentally but they were concerned that something they wanted to keep hidden would be discovered if her body was examined (such as drugs, sexual abuse, ?). It's even possible that she died accidentally while left alone in the apartment and they panicked, thinking they'd be blamed for having left the children alone (and rightly so) and decided to cover it up.

What makes this case so difficult is that we really have very little physical evidence of either an intruder or of parental involvement. You feel strongly that it was an intruder, a stranger, but really have nothing to prove that. Others look at the behaviour of the parents: leaving the children alone (which, while apparently not illegal, shows a certain detachment from them); not being concerned when told that Madeleine cried when left alone previously (again, a lack of concern for the children); leaving the twins alone in the apartment after finding Madeleine missing and running all the way back to the restaurant to alert the others; the twins not waking up despite the commotion and the parents not immediately insisting on having them tested for drugs; the confusing and changing story about the "jemmied" blinds and window; Kate not physically searching for Madeleine; making long-term plans for events on the anniversary of her abduction (suggesting they knew very well that she wouldn't come back); Gerry joking and making his friends laugh a few days later; leaving the twins in the creche in the days that followed (again, the parents I've known who lost children could hardly bear to be separated from their other children for a very long time - and here there was no need); the video of them on a talk show where they are sad and concerned while answering questions, then as soon as the show ends (with camera still running) they get up laughing and cheerful; and so on. There's more.

I don't know what actually happened, obviously, and I have not steeped myself in every detail of this case. But I do think there are valid reasons to be suspicious of the parents.

Tink
 
Lol...!

Yes it does get a bit difficult to read at times, or to follow the logic.

Every defence as to the timeline of that night is useless, as the timeline has never been confirmed.

The McCann "account of the truth" has too many inconsistencies to be credible.

Instead of a defence mounted on constructive alternative theories, we get -

Amaral Bash
DNA Bash
Other poster's theories Bash.

Note that anything can be said of Amaral including that he is lying and a criminal, anything and everything was said about Murat, and then Hewlett (twice over), but anything remotely critical of the McCann becomes "chirply going along accusing people of things without a shred of evidence".

Bit of a double standard there.

Logic is a stranger to Team McCann, clearly demonstrated by their act of repeatedly leaving tiny children alone to cry and fend for themselves in a strange unlocked apartment.
 
I'm not sure, parents innocent. There are too many questions either way to be certain, other than IMO Portugal has a very good reason to want it to be the parents, imagine how their tourism trade may have been affected otherwise.

IIRC wasn't there a witness who saw a man carrying a child nearby that night? Also wasn't there a sighting at a camping park in spain a couple of days after? There were false plates in those peoples car IIRC.
The truth is often stranger than what we would expect it to be.


I also recall internet talk on different sites about Jaycee Lee Dugards stepfather being guilty of her disappearance long before she was found (I'm in Australia not the USA). He wasn't at all though.

Yea..the man Martin Smith claimed it was Gerry. For the record i have no doubts whatsoever that the parents know what happened to Madeleine and i just wish that everybody could read the trancripted files if there still out there from the investigation instead of just taking notice of whats in the British papers.
 
I really hope she is with us, i really do. I agree I do not see how madeleine could have died in the flat and her parents removed the body that night. And I do not buy into the conspiracy theories of a double being used.

I do not think the parents have behaved suspiciously, I just think they were in the spotlight a lot more thna in other cases. April jones mother for instance has only been shown at press conferences. When Holly and Jessica disappeared in soham I remember a journalist said he had spoken to her mother shopping in the town just before they were foudn, she had apparently said she just had to get out and do something normal. BUT she wa snot followed by the cameras, or filmed speaking to the journalist. If that had been Kate mccann she woudl have been filmed and the film much discussed.

Maybe Hollies mum cooperated with the cops and wasnt seen to be suspicious?
 
Yea..the man Martin Smith claimed it was Gerry. For the record i have no doubts whatsoever that the parents know what happened to Madeleine and i just wish that everybody could read the trancripted files if there still out there from the investigation instead of just taking notice of whats in the British papers.


They are

Www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk

Without the dozens of volunteers putting them out thereand translating them none of us would be here, so thanks to them all
, they have done a great service
 
Merry Christmas Clutchbag and all who keep digging for the truth for Madeleine.
 
I am fairly new here and can see that the McCann case generates very strong opinions. I have not read every thread here but have a question given that people here are so up to speed. It seems that those that believe that the McCanns are responsible for Madeleine's disappearance suggest that her body was taken down to the sea for disposal by her father (Martin Smith sighting). Did anyone ever check tidal calendars? Of course you can only dispose of a body from land if the tide is outgoing. Even then I am not positive the body would not turn up again with the next tide on the Algarve.

Regardless of what I think if the McCanns, I find it difficult to see how they could make her body disappear in a place where they basically did not know their way around and had to come up with a strategy at such short notice. that's why I think a look at the tidal calendar would confirm or eliminate possibilities.
 
I just had a quick look at the tides and found this from the Portuguese hydrographic institute:

Data: 2007-05-03 Porto: Faro - Barra de Faro-Olhão
Hora Legal de Verão (UTC +1) Altura(m)
Qua, 2007-05-02 21:28 0.80 Baixa-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 03:54 3.10 Preia-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 09:40 0.81 Baixa-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 16:10 3.18 Preia-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 21:59 0.81 Baixa-mar
Sex, 2007-05-04 04:26 3.05 Preia-mar

Would this not suggest that the tide was at its highest in the afternoon and at its lowest at 10 pm? In this case it is impossible that the body was disposed at sea without a boat that evening. Apologies if this was discussed before.

http://www.hidrografico.pt/previsao-mares-faro.php
 
I just had a quick look at the tides and found this from the Portuguese hydrographic institute:

Data: 2007-05-03 Porto: Faro - Barra de Faro-Olhão
Hora Legal de Verão (UTC +1) Altura(m)
Qua, 2007-05-02 21:28 0.80 Baixa-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 03:54 3.10 Preia-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 09:40 0.81 Baixa-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 16:10 3.18 Preia-mar
Qui, 2007-05-03 21:59 0.81 Baixa-mar
Sex, 2007-05-04 04:26 3.05 Preia-mar

Would this not suggest that the tide was at its highest in the afternoon and at its lowest at 10 pm? In this case it is impossible that the body was disposed at sea without a boat that evening. Apologies if this was discussed before.

http://www.hidrografico.pt/previsao-mares-faro.php

Here is something I posted on another Madeleine thread, just the other day -

I would absolutely agree with this scenario but for one thing - the cadaver in the Renault 20 days later.

Pretty much the only way that was possible is if a refrigerated Madeleine had been deposited in there, according to Amaral. Burial of some sort would not have resulted in fluids, and they shouldn't have found cadaver at all.

Then there's this largely forgotten gem from - guess who - one David Payne, who is all over this mess and not in a good way -

Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they’d had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

I think they may have hidden her on the beach in the early hours, then in a vacant unit somewhere that someone had knowledge of. There is a small army of Brits living in PDL, and another army again of Brit holiday home owners with houses that sit vacant most of the year. It is very cliquey and they all know each other, as they tend to be of the same social echelon as the Tapas.

My theory is, someone knew that someone was safely back in England and so knew their PDL house was vacant. Maybe the garage door was easily opened, perhaps someone had boasted they never bother to lock their doors while they were away as it's so safe there, or even mentioned a key under a pot in passing. I believe Madeleine went somewhere like that within the first 12 hours, if not straight away.

Beach first (maybe), vacant holiday house after. Then to the Renault and off the coast of whereever they went on that long trip they did.

The poor little thing is definitely in the sea, maybe not that night and not off PDL.

I remember reading about the tides and Mark Harrisons report, which pretty much negated the likliehood that she went in off PDL.

And welcome to Madeleine's threads!

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id293.html
 
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