Does Skyline school bear any responsibility?

[LisaB]

I thank GOD my son's school calls when he is not in class. They called one time and I had just taken him to school and I about FLIPPED OUT.

A little OT, but it comes around...

When we moved from one county to another during the summer, my daughter entered a new school as a High School Freshman. She rode a bus that arrived after I was at work and returned her before I got home. On the the third day of school, she got into a little trouble due to miscommunication about whether or not she could have friends in the house while I was out (the answer was NO), and another girl ended up missing her bus because she THOUGHT she was coming over to our house. I read my daughter the riot act and, explained to the other mother, who had to drive an hour round trip to get her child, that visitors needed to be cleared with me first.

Almost three weeks went by. My phone rang while I was at work. The person on the other end informed me that my daughter had attended the first three days of school, but had not been present since. I was shocked. I thought she had somehow been so embarassed about the misundersatnding that she was embarassed to return to school. Nevertheless, I was REALLY MAD. As the conversation went on, something clued me in that I was speaking with someone from the school she WOULD HAVE ATTENDED if we had not moved. Her records had been transferred, and she was not enrolled there. As concerned as I was that they waited 3 weeks for her to show up before notifying me, I was actually MORE concerned that she was somehow marked PRESENT for the FIRST three days.

 

[LisaB]

From a statistical perspective, the circumstances leading up to the disappearance of this child, were in fact a perfect storm. If one can look at the situation in its entirety (rather than the culpability of individuals), disaster was brewing. In this case the disaster manifested itself in the disappearance of Kyron.

Seems like it would have been a simple matter (considering that there were volunteers available that day) to have put the principal at the main door, the gym teacher at the second "main entrance" and a librarian or music or art teacher at the third "downstairs" door. They could have served as greeters, directed people to the group/class of exhibits they were looking for, and been a deterrent to anyone walking out with a child.

I suggest the Principal out front because he is the "host" and that the other doors be manned by individuals who are familiar with all the students (as opposed to a home room teacher who only knows her grade).

 

[LisaB]

I believe it was TH. She knew the school, the teachers, the hours, and the layout. She threw out a red herring about the Dr's appt, which, as far as I know, has never been confirmed for that day, the next day, or the next week (when school was not even going to be in session).

According to the Skyline School Calendar, school did not end until 6/16. Furhermore, I recall that they made a bit of a deal on the news that day about the school year ending with Kyron still missing.

http://www1.pgcps.org/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=82694

So whether the appointment was supposed to be on the 4th or the 11th, it was still during the school year.

 

[LisaB]

nor would it make a difference about what happened to him.

Really? I find that hard to believe.
I respect your view, and get what you are trying to say, but there is always powerful evidence in a video. That's why LE is searching for those, currently.

I suspect that "wondering" meant that they'd have been able to determine (after the fact) who had removed him from the school, but he'd still be just as "dead" as he apparently is, either way.

Only if he was truly "stashed" might this have helped locate him, by pointing to who stashed him, so they could be questioned.

 

[BeanE]

As a parent of two Skyline students, it pains me to see these kinds of accusations, especially from those who have no knowledge of the school and its procedures. Skyline does have sign in and sign out procedures and they are very safety conscious. Terri took advantage of what was to be a very hectic day and did her evil deed. She took advantage of a situation and manipulated the situation to make it seem like the school's fault.

I have no problem with sending my kids back to Skyline this fall as this was a family tragedy, and certainly not a school tragedy.:banghead:

Well, I'm just going by all the reports that there were no sign in procedures. And by my own sense of logic - which admittedly ain't what it used to be - that if there was a sign out procedure, we wouldn't be where we are today.

So. What time did Terri sign in that morning, and who signed Kyron out and at what time? And why hasn't this sign in/out procedure ever been mentioned in the press in regards to specifics about what happened to Kyron?

TIA

 

[teacher 3]

Yellow Submarine
Your school is very much like the school Ihave taught in for the last 10 yrs. We have many, many events where parents are invited, science exhib, art, etc. EVeryone signs in if it is in the evening and they can leave with their children. If they come during the day they get the pass, sign in, etc. A large school and all the perimiter doors are locked. Only in or out for visitors is thru the main door. Haven't lost anyone yet. Didn't used to be that way.....a little more lenient yrs ago, but times have changed.

 

[human]

Yellow Submarine
Your school is very much like the school Ihave taught in for the last 10 yrs. We have many, many events where parents are invited, science exhib, art, etc. EVeryone signs in if it is in the evening and they can leave with their children. If they come during the day they get the pass, sign in, etc. A large school and all the perimiter doors are locked. Only in or out for visitors is thru the main door. Haven't lost anyone yet. Didn't used to be that way.....a little more lenient yrs ago, but times have changed.

Our schools where I work are basically with poor security, but that will be changed with the new ones being built.

We have teachers on board for morning and after school bus duty.

But signing in up t0 1200 parents, grandparents, others for big events? I can't see it now.

That's why our brilliant superintendent pushed for new schools with security 5 years ago, much to many of the community's utter disgust. I have mentioned before that he has received DEATH THREATS because he was instrumental in getting us new schools.

We even have a state legislator weighing in on the disgust of all of this.

I am going to send a letter to our school board which includes the three new members who were voted in last year because they OPPOSED our new secure schools.

Thank you superintendent!

 

[loves2bmom]

Well, I'm just going by all the reports that there were no sign in procedures. And by my own sense of logic - which admittedly ain't what it used to be - that if there was a sign out procedure, we wouldn't be where we are today.

So. What time did Terri sign in that morning, and who signed Kyron out and at what time? And why hasn't this sign in/out procedure ever been mentioned in the press?

TIA

I think they did have a sign in/out policy but on a hectic day like the Science Fair, it wasn't followed. I can tell you that our school is very similar. I also think that if people know each other in a small school, sometimes the rules get lax. I was shocked that our school didn't tighten up after this incident but we had a talent show at the end of the year too and no sign in.

 

[easttexas]

What did you do to confirm that the person called in giving Grammy permisson was the parent with authority to do so? I've had to do this with my kids in pre-school and was grateful that they took my word over the phone. But if you're worried about abuse, nothing short of photo i.d. and signatures of permitted persons, confirmed by the authorizing person, and the authorized person, in person, at the time of the authorization and the pick up will do. And this NEVER happens. And that's fine with me.

This pre-school was probably pretty small in comparison to some today. I was responsible for 14 toddlers and I had an aide. Very few times were there call ins to arrange pick-ups as the parent who dropped off the child would make arrangements at that time. Do you mean that in the case of divorce the non-custodial parent calling? If the parent said that the dad/mom can not pick up this child without my permission then we honored that. If a non-custodial parent showed up they could not have the child until the custodial parent got there to approve. But, that never happened. The only odd phone call that I ever received there was for a new child that would start the after care program the next day. I had never met the parents or the child yet I had to pick up this child at her school. The mom described her to me, she has the brightest red hair you will know her instantly. I still to this day can't believe how they trusted me without knowing me at all and that it was just so easy to pick this child up. She was only 5.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

As a parent of two Skyline students, it pains me to see these kinds of accusations, especially from those who have no knowledge of the school and its procedures. Skyline does have sign in and sign out procedures and they are very safety conscious. Terri took advantage of what was to be a very hectic day and did her evil deed. She took advantage of a situation and manipulated the situation to make it seem like the school's fault.

I have no problem with sending my kids back to Skyline this fall as this was a family tragedy, and certainly not a school tragedy.:banghead:

It's great to have someone here with some local insight! I am curious why you say this is a family tragedy? Unless there is more info floating around there than the rest of us have, it is very possible it was not TH who did this. I, as many, lean towards her guilt. But, until we have concrete proof, we don't know for sure. As far as the accusations and not having knowledge of Skylines procedures -- what we do know is that Kyron was at school that morning. According to a classmate, when he was noticed missing, it was brushed off that he was possibly getting a drink. The only way I would say Skyline has no fault at all is if TH did tell the teacher Kyron most certainly would be leaving for the day. I'm glad you are comfortable letting your children return to the school, but I don't think I would be not knowing exactly who took Kyron or why it was ignored that he was missing.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I think this would all depend on the School's policies for this type of thing. I guess not all schools have the same policies maybe depending on what state you live in?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I think they did have a sign in/out policy but on a hectic day like the Science Fair, it wasn't followed. I can tell you that our school is very similar. I also think that if people know each other in a small school, sometimes the rules get lax. I was shocked that our school didn't tighten up after this incident but we had a talent show at the end of the year too and no sign in.

I am not overly bothered by the fact the sign in/out procedure may not have been used that day, as I understand it would be pretty hard to do with that volume of visitors. I am not overly bothered there wasn't a procedure for absent students in place. I am not even overly bothered Kyron somehow slipped out during a chaotic time. What I am bothered by, however, is the fact Kyron was known to be at school that morning. He'd been with various classmates and teachers. When it was noticed he was missing, nothing was done about it. Yes, TH may have told his teacher he'd be leaving for a dr appt, but I'm not sure that's more than just rumor right now. So, until I hear different, all we know is that when Kyrons teacher noticed he'd disappeared, she didn't do anything about it. THAT is what bothers me.

 

[BeanE]

As a parent of two Skyline students, it pains me to see these kinds of accusations, especially from those who have no knowledge of the school and its procedures. Skyline does have sign in and sign out procedures and they are very safety conscious. Terri took advantage of what was to be a very hectic day and did her evil deed. She took advantage of a situation and manipulated the situation to make it seem like the school's fault.

I have no problem with sending my kids back to Skyline this fall as this was a family tragedy, and certainly not a school tragedy.:banghead:

One more thing. Here's my post you quoted and were responding to. Could you please point out to me what accusations you see in what i said? Because I don't see any. Thanks.

Yes, they bear responsibility, regardless of whether or not Terri was involved. They should have had a sign out procedure in place, as well as a parent call-in procedure for children who are not coming to school at all.

There should have been a process in place whereby when the teacher's roll hit the office, somebody compared the ones marked 'absent' against the sign out sheet, and list of students whose parents had called them in sick.

Any student not accounted for should have immediately had a call home, and if the parents can't be reached, then a call to 911 to report the child missing unless/until they're accounted for.

It seems to me that's just common sense to protect the children for whom you are legally (I'll leave out morally) responsible.

 

[Jo in Calif]

If Terry had of picked Kyron up when class had of already started, for a supposedly Dr. appt., after roll call had been done, I'm sure she would have had to sign him out. The confusion here is because, IMO, that class hadn't already started, the teacher thought Kyron had a Dr. appt. and Terry had brought him to be able to see the SF. before his Dr. appt. I would think that if Kyron had of toured the SF with the other students and was missing after that it would have sent up red flags. IMO the school should not be held responsible.

 

[lukne]

BeanE The school has strict sign in and sign out procedures set in place. The problem was that the science fair took place before classes had begun. That is why Teri didn't have to sign him out and that is why he was marked absent that day. That and the fact that Teri was vague (or even lied) about the doctor's appointment that day.

 

[PaulaF513]

Regardless of Terri's innocence or guilt, confusion about the doctor's appointment or not, do you think Skyline bears any responsibility for Kyron's disappearance?

Honestly, I'm inclined to say yes. Even if Terri created confusion about the doctor's appointment, there was confusion. Something wasn't clear. Something was, perhaps, wrongly assumed. Admittedly, I don't discount TP witnessing the teacher assert early on that Kyron was in the bathroom or getting a drink of water when asked about his absence. Regardless of TP's use of the word sub, I believe his statement. I believe when Kyron didn't return it's possible that the teacher wrongly assumed he was at his doctor's appointment. I believe it's possible confusion over the doctor's appointment is fast becoming a scapegoat for the teacher's negligence.

Please, let's not let this thread devolve into bashing, but I'm genuinely curious about people's thoughts about this.

I

I completely agree with you. If the school policy was to contact parents upon an absence, there would be no confusion regarding an appointment. Schools should also have a policy of having an adult sign in and out when removing a child. School policy should also have video or live surveillance at every door leading to the outside while the school is open. A guard or video would have eliminated any guesswork as to the person who accompanied Kyron out of the school.

Granted, it may not have saved Kyron's life, but early notification of his parents would have markedly reduced the timeline and allowed for early SAR and police presence. As abducted children are most often killed within 2-3 hours of their abduction, I am saddened to believe he is long dead.

Even assuming that TH is responsible, early notice of the boy's absence would have also reduced the time for covering up a crime.

As things currently stand, the doctor issue is a she said/she said. The kids who have acknowledged knowing that Kyron was absent for an appointment very well could have heard it in school, from the teacher when noting his absence.

I too believe TP's story. If that episode had occurred the day before, it should have been well verified by now by the teacher as well as the aide. IF that episode occurred, it establishes that KH was not adverse to wandering off by himself, which is contrary to what we have been told about him. That opens up an entire area of concern. And if the teacher had been given paperwork to complete for the doctor, had she returned it to TH on June 4th, thereby reinforcing her belief that that was the day of the appointment?

 

[Jo in Calif]

I was there that morning! MSM was not. No, not everyone at the science fair signed in, but on normal days, you must sign in every time you enter the building. You must also sign the child out. The Portland Public School district doesn't have a ton of money and frankly I'd rather that money go to educating my children than on covering their butts on the rare occasion when a (step)parent goes nuts.

Nice to know we have someone here that was actually there that morning. Just for curiosity, did you notice any one particular parent or student that day? Or were you just going about your business and noticing what you were interested in noticing? Were most parents and students there just blenders? Was there anything that made you pay specific attention to?

 

[Jules71]

BeanE The school has strict sign in and sign out procedures set in place. The problem was that the science fair took place before classes had begun. That is why Teri didn't have to sign him out and that is why he was marked absent that day. That and the fact that Teri was vague (or even lied) about the doctor's appointment that day.

Exactly. I don't think sign out procedures are applicable in this situation. No one needed to sign Kyron out because school had not officially started yet.

How would this situation be if there was no SF that day? Terri walks Kyron toward his class, says goodbye, and turns and leaves. Kyron never makes it to class. He is marked absent when roll is taken at 8:45. No call goes home because Skyline did not have a policy to make those calls. No one knows he is missing until he doesn't get off the bus.

The question I have though, that lukne might be able to answer is what were the kids who did not have parents attending the SF supposed to do? Did they not have to come to school that day until 10 am? Did the buses run late that day? Or were kids still required to be in their classrooms at 8:45? If that is the case, roll should have been taken at 8:45 like always, not at 10. But still, no call would have gone home because they did not have a policy to do that. JMO.

 

[BeanE]

BeanE The school has strict sign in and sign out procedures set in place. The problem was that the science fair took place before classes had begun. That is why Teri didn't have to sign him out and that is why he was marked absent that day. That and the fact that Teri was vague (or even lied) about the doctor's appointment that day.

Thanks, lukne. I understand from the MSM reports that the procedure was suspended during events, such as the science fair, and that it was suspended that morning. I don't want this to happen to any other children there. That's why I'd like to see better procedures put in place.

I don't care about law suits. It's not about law suits. It's not about money. It's about our children, and us, all of us, and schools, and other entities that are entrusted with the safety and well-being of our children, to value our children enough to proactively take steps to do the very best we and they can to best ensure their safety and well-being.

We can't unring the bell, lawsuits can't do that, but we can do better. We just have to.

 

[Jules71]

I

I completely agree with you. If the school policy was to contact parents upon an absence, there would be no confusion regarding an appointment. Schools should also have a policy of having an adult sign in and out when removing a child. School policy should also have video or live surveillance at every door leading to the outside while the school is open. A guard or video would have eliminated any guesswork as to the person who accompanied Kyron out of the school.

Granted, it may not have saved Kyron's life, but early notification of his parents would have markedly reduced the timeline and allowed for early SAR and police presence. As abducted children are most often killed within 2-3 hours of their abduction, I am saddened to believe he is long dead.

Even assuming that TH is responsible, early notice of the boy's absence would have also reduced the time for covering up a crime.

As things currently stand, the doctor issue is a she said/she said. The kids who have acknowledged knowing that Kyron was absent for an appointment very well could have heard it in school, from the teacher when noting his absence.

I too believe TP's story. If that episode had occurred the day before, it should have been well verified by now by the teacher as well as the aide. IF that episode occurred, it establishes that KH was not adverse to wandering off by himself, which is contrary to what we have been told about him. That opens up an entire area of concern. And if the teacher had been given paperwork to complete for the doctor, had she returned it to TH on June 4th, thereby reinforcing her belief that that was the day of the appointment?

BBM. It would have only reduced the time for covering up a crime by 90 mins. or so. Let's say the school does have a policy to call home when a student is absent - a call goes home after 10 (or 8:45 depending on which time roll was actually taken that day). The call is either automated or made by the secretary, and left on their answering machine or voice mail . Terri is not home to take the call. The only thing this does IMO is gets the ball rolling that Kyron is missing at 1:00'ish when Terri got home, or 2'something when Kaine got home. The deed is already done at that point.

Are people thinking that the school would keep calling all the contact #'s until they reach someone? I don't think that happens at most schools. My son's school uses an automated system that calls all of the contact #'s you have specified for them to call. I fill out a form each year and indicate who I want that automated message to go to. I think I have it listed that it goes to my hubby, home phone, cell phone, and email - but that's just me, and if I was up to no good, I would just make sure the call would only come to me. Before they had the automated system, they would just call the home phone #.