Does Skyline school bear any responsibility?

[Aedrys]

I was there that morning! MSM was not. No, not everyone at the science fair signed in, but on normal days, you must sign in every time you enter the building. You must also sign the child out. The Portland Public School district doesn't have a ton of money and frankly I'd rather that money go to educating my children than on covering their butts on the rare occasion when a (step)parent goes nuts.

I just want to say I appreciate your input here. It sounds like you might have more information than any of us who aren't there do, but I respect your right to defend your school and if you can't talk more because of the investigation, I respect that too. Thanks for sharing what you can with us. And I'm very sorry for what you're going through because of this tragedy. Someone needs to speak up for Skyline, and I'm glad you can.

 

[grandmaj]

Everyone had better check their snark at the door!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Of course the school bears some responsibility for failing to note and report Kyron's absence , but only in the sense that a more timely alert to the school office would have triggered a call home--which would have been fielded by TH anyway. So in this case, it may not have made a difference that the school did not make a report if TH is, in fact, the person responsible for Kyron's disappearance. It would have created a more limited timeline for LE, though, because we would know when the SCHOOL noticed his absence, and that might have helped identify the time when Kyron left or was taken from the school building. A call also would have left time-stamped information for TH that Kyron wasn't in school, so she would have had to get school and LE looking for him earlier or conjured up some reason why she hadn't checked her messages. For example, if she put up the FB posting somewhere other than at home, that is, used FB to look like she was home earlier than she was, a time-stamped message might have helped solidify that point--because if she was supposedly at home, she would supposedly have received the call. So maybe that was a missed opportunity. But LE appears to be on the ball in this case, and they have have checked the IP address for when TH signed on to FB to post pictures. Now that is something I would like to know. (I need to bone up on my TH timeline, clearly. I am nowhere near as up to speed on this case as the rest of you.)

In general, it would be good practice for schools to have a table at the front door and ask people to sign in an out when events like the science fair are held. That doesn't cost a thing, other than the time of an employee or a PTA volunteer. Security cameras might also be useful, and they don't have to be high-end or a big drain on the budget.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

BeanE The school has strict sign in and sign out procedures set in place. The problem was that the science fair took place before classes had begun. That is why Teri didn't have to sign him out and that is why he was marked absent that day. That and the fact that Teri was vague (or even lied) about the doctor's appointment that day.

Unless you have info the rest of us don't, we don't know for sure how vague TH might have been or if she even lied. We haven't had that confirmed yet. All we know is that one of Kyrons classmates heard one of the teachers ask about him (since she knew he had been there) and the other teacher said not to worry, he was probably getting a drink or in the bathroom - which he obviously wasn't.

I don't know why the school policy or lack there of that day keeps coming in to play. IMO, the fact that Kyron was AT SCHOOL WITH HIS CLASS and then SUDDENLY GONE and the teacher passes it off to him wandering around somewhere without checking OR following up shortly after is what is really disconcerting. There's something wrong with the fact a young child realized another child was missing before the teacher did, AND THEN DIDN'T EVEN CHECK INTO IT! And since the teachers comment to the other teacher was that Kyron was getting a drink or something and NOT went to the dr with TH, I don't know if I can believe TH snowballed them all.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

My opinion on whether an immediate call would have made a difference --

*IF* TH was responsible and the school called before she was able to do anything, it might have made her think twice. She would have to have suddenly gone into "missing child" mode while Kyron was with her, so possibly she would have changed her mind and told the school he was with her.

*IF* a stranger took Kyron, LE and the public would have been alerted and on the lookout right away, instead of giving the person another 7 hours to get away.

I honestly believe if action would have been taken when the teacher originally noticed Kyron gone, he may still be here and we'd be going about this on a different forum.

 

[gliving]

Exactly. I don't think sign out procedures are applicable in this situation. No one needed to sign Kyron out because school had not officially started yet.

How would this situation be if there was no SF that day? Terri walks Kyron toward his class, says goodbye, and turns and leaves. Kyron never makes it to class. He is marked absent when roll is taken at 8:45. No call goes home because Skyline did not have a policy to make those calls. No one knows he is missing until he doesn't get off the bus.

The question I have though, that lukne might be able to answer is what were the kids who did not have parents attending the SF supposed to do? Did they not have to come to school that day until 10 am? Did the buses run late that day? Or were kids still required to be in their classrooms at 8:45? If that is the case, roll should have been taken at 8:45 like always, not at 10. But still, no call would have gone home because they did not have a policy to do that. JMO.

Jules71, this is a very important point. The students reported to their room when the last bell rang at 8:45. Why didn't the teacher take roll then? She would need to take lunch count the for the cooks. Then gather all the kids into groups for the tours. Surely they weren't allowed free rein for 1.5 hours.

I don't understand why she waited until 10:00 to take roll and report Kyron absent.

The sign in and sign out doesn't come into play. It's the taking roll at 10:00 that concerns me.

 

[Tuffy]

Jules71, this is a very important point. The students reported to their room when the last bell rang at 8:45. Why didn't the teacher take roll then? She would need to take lunch count the for the cooks. Then gather all the kids into groups for the tours. Surely they weren't allowed free rein for 1.5 hours.

I don't understand why she waited until 10:00 to take roll and report Kyron absent.

The sign in and sign out doesn't come into play. It's the taking roll at 10:00 that concerns me.

Anecdotal: at our school (where I taught) we didn't take attendance until after 10:00 so that students that were tardy did not get marked absent. We are not a high security school though.

BBM:

Also, very confusing. Was Kyron part of a group that day? Did I miss that? Or was he supposed to be in a group, and instead wandered around with TH?

 

[Donjeta]

Jules71, this is a very important point. The students reported to their room when the last bell rang at 8:45. Why didn't the teacher take roll then? She would need to take lunch count the for the cooks. Then gather all the kids into groups for the tours. Surely they weren't allowed free rein for 1.5 hours.

I don't understand why she waited until 10:00 to take roll and report Kyron absent.

The sign in and sign out doesn't come into play. It's the taking roll at 10:00 that concerns me.

I suspect that many teachers tend to count their children several times per day and try to keep them sorted in their head even if the procedure is to take the official roll and report the absent people to the school office at 10.

I don't think the children weren't allowed free rein because we heard that they were supposed to tour with the chaperones.

 

[Donjeta]

My opinion on whether an immediate call would have made a difference --

*IF* TH was responsible and the school called before she was able to do anything, it might have made her think twice. She would have to have suddenly gone into "missing child" mode while Kyron was with her, so possibly she would have changed her mind and told the school he was with her.

Maybe or she just wouldn't have answered her phone.

 

[tragco]

I would think from a legal standpoint the school would be much more culpable if it was a stranger abduction than if a step-parent caused harm to a child.

Politics. I respect LE. I admire what they do. They put their lives on the line to protect us.

But I do think about what if's? What if, in addition to some maybe incriminating evidence against Terri, if they can pin it on her:

it also means that the school will not be held liable, the county won't have to spend money paying a lawsuit, and more money is available to the local government.

I think many government employees and supervisors are in a much better position financially and in the eye of the public if it was not a stranger abduction.

Which means that maybe... just maybe... some things are being overlooked re: stranger abduction.
MOO

 

[tehcloser]

If it was TH, not responsible. If it was a stranger, yes. Wow, that was easy, wish everything else with this case could be....lol.

 

[kgeaux]

Regardless of Terri's innocence or guilt, confusion about the doctor's appointment or not, do you think Skyline bears any responsibility for Kyron's disappearance?

Honestly, I'm inclined to say yes. Even if Terri created confusion about the doctor's appointment, there was confusion. Something wasn't clear. Something was, perhaps, wrongly assumed. Admittedly, I don't discount TP witnessing the teacher assert early on that Kyron was in the bathroom or getting a drink of water when asked about his absence. Regardless of TP's use of the word sub, I believe his statement. I believe when Kyron didn't return it's possible that the teacher wrongly assumed he was at his doctor's appointment. I believe it's possible confusion over the doctor's appointment is fast becoming a scapegoat for the teacher's negligence.

Please, let's not let this thread devolve into bashing, but I'm genuinely curious about people's thoughts about this.

Absolutely, the school bears responsibility. A child was allowed to be removed from school grounds without notice of any school employee. There is a reasonable assumption on the part of parents that our children are safe guarded when they are on school property. This school did not even follow reasonable safeguards that day, such as having visitors sign in and wear name tags identifying the visitor.

Even if TH turns out to be involved, Kyron's mother and father had every right to assume that their little boy was being watched and protected from abduction during school hours.

 

[sherbetjello]

Once, I went to pick up my child from the school.. I ran into the teacher and her line of students. I stopped the teacher and said "Hi, um... where is my child?" She looked at me with a blank stare, turned around, looked back at me and said "I dunno, I thought that all the children were with me. You know, your child takes off quite a bit, and it's not my responsibility to get your child to stand in the line like all the others."
I was *advertiser censored****ing floored. [to be noted, my child has aspergers, and she is well aware that SHE has to adjust her "plan" to my child, and grow 2 more eyeballs in the back of her head.]

Again, just my input with situations similar. And yes, it was totally that teachers JOB to know where my child was. [mind you, I found my child in a room with a student aid I had never met/seen before.]
Teachers clock in and clock out everyday to teach the children in the classroom. If one is missing you should write it down and have it taken to the office. As soon as those slips make it to the admin office, the secratary should have to go through them and call the parents of the absent students. You know, for liability sake? Or, maybe in the case of a case?

I am not saying that this would of stopped anyone from carrying out such acts, but at least implementing these things would at least help keep our schools that much safer, and that's fine by me.

 

[kgeaux]

Maybe or she just wouldn't have answered her phone.

In my opinion, it wouldn't even matter if the phone had been answered or not. At the very least, the school would have taken some sort of action to notify Kyron's family that he was not on school grounds.

It still wouldn't change the fact that someone smuggled a child off of school property, right under the noses of every teacher, school official and employee of the school, but at least some sort of attempt to notify would have occured.

 

[BringKyronHome]

No matter who took him, yes.

He was not given an excused absence, yet was not present for classes.

He was there then gone.

His things implied he should have been there.

No matter what happened, I think they should have verified any confusion that may have surfaced as SOON as they noticed him absent.

On a regular day my response may be different. But this was an unusual day, with lots of confusion and strangers, common sense should have overruled any typical policies/practices/procedures that were in place.

I think at the end of the day, regardless of how he left that building, they are responsible for the children that are under their roof during school hours (not class hours).

 

[sherbetjello]

It still wouldn't change the fact that someone smuggled a child off of school property, right under the noses of every teacher, school official and employee of the school, but at least some sort of attempt to notify would have occured.

This is why I firmly believe had there of been a camera or two in this school that day there would be no confusion on how Kyron left the school that morning. Meaning, the school wouldn't have to deal with any speculation on who took the child. Oh, and it would also probably help reduce many of the stress the students/parents have about dropping their children off at the schools in this area. Even though they say "there is no evidence to say this will happen again" doesn't mean that perps don't see the faults these schools have and want to take advantage of that. Kyrons case, this entire situation, shouldn't be vain. Time for the school to take action, IMO.

 

[dartemis]

I am a former teacher. If I was very familiar with a certain mother and I was 100% sure that she told me she was taking her son out that day for a drs. appointment then I would have done as Kyron's teacher did...nothing. If I didn't know the parent or was even slightly confused about he date of the appointment, I would have checked with the office when I didn't see him to make sure he was signed out. If he wasn't signed out, I would have asked them to call his home just to make sure. The fact that the teacher first thought that Kyron was in the bathroom or getting a drink of water tells me that she was at least a little confused about the appointment date and, in my opinion, should have attempted to clarify that Kyron really did leave with Terri, especially since his coat was on his desk and it was raining outside. That would have been a big hint to me that something was "off". The school will try to protect the teacher because they always do but I believe, knowing the little bit that I know, that she had some responsibility in this case. And please don't try to say that I am suggesting she is responsible for what Terri may have done...that is NOT what I am saying. The teacher is, however, responsible for ensuring the safety of every child in her care to the best of her ability.

 

[cluciano63]

I said "no" earlier, if it was Terri who took him, and they were very close to 100% in "knowing" that in their minds. But I am more concerned now if there were children outside, per the GK, that may have been without supervision. That would make me wonder about the overall unwritten policies dictating the overseeing of the children.

Also, if, (and it is a big if to me) TP really asked the teacher or an adult in the school, where Kyron was and she replied as he indicated, bathroom or getting a drink. That is a big finger pointing at the school that has conveniently been allowed to disappear from LE's recall, it seems. At least, they sure are not in a hurry to explain why this did not happen. If it's not true, then why not explain it, so people like me don't start thinking cover-up?

 

[RubyRed]

Kimster took some good pics of the school area,


http://s876.photobucket.com/albums/ab324/sym4sar/Kyron - August 2010/

 

[desquire]

Janitor Bill Tandy walks past Kyron Horman's classroom at Skyline Elementary School in the early hours of June 7, 2010

http://photos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_attracts_1_3.html


*sigh* I feel sad everytime I see this picture.

Can one of you who has been to the school confirm (1) that the windows of this classroom are on the front (Skyline Blvd) side of the school overlooking the playground and the access road, (2) whether you'd be able to see a truck parked on the access road from those windows, and (3) that the stairway pictured right outside this classroom leads down to the exit doors on the soccer field side of the building?