Does the State's Case Have Any Weaknesses? What Are They?

[Never4GetCaylee]

I don't think Casey will look very pretty to any of the jurors once they hear the horrifying details about how she murdered her baby, went out and partied and told lie after lie to the police. Anything the defense thinks they have to buffer the truth will be insignificant compared to the evidence the State holds.

Bolded by me.

But the thing is, the juror isn't going to hear the horrifying details of how she murdered her baby because no one knows those details. (except KC) No one knows how or where she was murdered. The SA can put their theories out there, but so can JB and they are only theories as far as we know. Maybe the SA has cause of death evidence we don't know about, but if they don't, the jury is going to be left to wonder exactly how Caylee did die. I don't think there will be reasonable doubt as to it being KC that caused her death, but I think to get the DP the jury is going to need to hear the horrifying details that as this point, as far as we know, nobody knows.

 

[Bishoptutu]

The nanny story was part of the cover-up, a lie to shift the blame to someone else, but the fact that she has lied her butt off ever since Caylee died IMO does not prove that it had to be murder, rather than an unintentional death by accident/negligence that she is not prepared to accept responsibility for.

True it doesn't prove it had to be murder but showing evidence of searches on the computer AND the fact that she didn't report her daughter missing for 31 days doesn't say accident either.

I guess I'm just thinking about how I would receive this information as a juror. Yeah I could accept an accident but when you purposefully try to deceive the police then one has to say you're covering up more than an accident.

 

[Brattigirle]

Depending on when this finally goes to trial, lets just see how young and innocent she will look by then.

Certainly the junk she is eating in jail (pork rinds and hoho's) will not keep her looking fit and trim.

 

[Devon]

bold,me
I'm quite certain that the "aggravated child abuse charges" were dropped once the indictment for felony murder came down.
Here are a few of the requirements for a Felony Murder Charge in FL:
DP W/aggravating circumstances. Pick one!

Florida:

(4) The defendant committed the murder after substantial planning and premeditation

(11)The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age

(12)The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim

(16)The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/aggr...nishment-state

Those are the aggravating factors applicable to imposing the death penalty after a murder conviction, they're not the criteria for a felony murder charge. Also, aggravated child abuse is definitely one of the current alternative charges, but felony murder is not a specific current charge. I'll try and find the indictment and post a link.

ETA: Here's a link to the indictment (it's the 3rd one down in the 'related links' section:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-a1casey1508oct15,0,4870531.story

 

[Lookylou]

Deputy Cain and the accidental release of tapes of KC's reaction upon learning a child's remains were found on Suburban will be used to create doubt in LE's performance. I think defense will pick apart LE and create doubt, then use that doubt as a reason to pick apart the forensics. What else are all those experts JB hired gonna do? All JMO. One thing is for sure, this will be an interesting trial!

I agree its going to be interesting.

 

[JSR]

I am worried about the fact that the state doesn't have a cause of death.

The State of California didn't have a cause of death for Laci Peterson either. And we all know Scott P. is sitting on Death Row as we speak, Thank God!

Please remember circumstantial cases can be just as powerful if not more so than murders that have eye witnesses. It's easy to discredit eye witnesses it's not so easy to discredit your own common sense when looking at circumstantial evidence.

 

[Devon]

True it doesn't prove it had to be murder but showing evidence of searches on the computer AND the fact that she didn't report her daughter missing for 31 days doesn't say accident either.

I guess I'm just thinking about how I would receive this information as a juror. Yeah I could accept an accident but when you purposefully try to deceive the police then one has to say you're covering up more than an accident.

I think the searches can very reasonably (and possibly accurately) be explained away, as our very own member JWG has already demonstrated through some very logical analysis of the evidence, and the 31 days IMO are because she doesn't have the guts to own up to what really happened, but that could very well be because she has some responsibility for Caylee's death, even if she didn't actually murder her.

 

[PoppyH]

My brother thinks she did it but feels SORRY for her. He said she looked scared during the last hearing.

IMO, most men idealize and feel protective toward young, vulnerable looking and yes, especially pretty females.

Tell him not to feel sorry for Casey, but Caylee, the ONE TRUE victim.

 

[JSR]

Folks realize if they can prove that chloroform was used on Caylee this proves child abuse. Any murder committed during a commission of another felony is automatically qualified for first degree murder. Even if your argument is true and Casey didn't intentionally mean to kill Caylee she still did during the commission of another felony.

Say a bank burglar goes into a bank and "accidentally" fires his gun and the gunfire hits and kills someone. Even though he didn't intend to kill anyone he will still be convicted of first degree murder because he was in the commission of committing another felony. This also goes for any other burglar accompanying him who didn't even shoot a gun, he too will be charged and convicted of first degree murder.

 

[JSR]

I SADLY AGREE. I have always had a feeling that it could have been an accident. IMO opinion there isn't enough information RELEASED that proves murder...let alone premeditation. ( maybe suggests )

I am hoping for some surprises at trial that will go this direction.. but as it sits, I have a very hard time uttering the words .. WITHOUT A DOUBT.. premeditated murder.

The death penalty has added a whole new wrinkle for me... personally, if I were on a jury for DP.. they would have to have an IRON CLAD case for me to vote to put someone to death. So far, I haven't seen that.

But, who knows... there could be a great bombshell of evidence we have not heard at trial.

Problem is as a juror, you're not to even consider the punishment of the crime. Only once she's convicted and a sentencing "trial" commences do you consider the punishment. Weighing the evidence shouldn't change as a juror even if the death penalty is on the table.

 

[logic13]

Folks realize if they can prove that chloroform was used on Caylee this proves child abuse. Any murder committed during a commission of another felony is automatically qualified for first degree murder. Even if your argument is true and Casey didn't intentionally mean to kill Caylee she still did during the commission of another felony.

Say a bank burglar goes into a bank and "accidentally" fires his gun and the gunfire hits and kills someone. Even though he didn't intend to kill anyone he will still be convicted of first degree murder because he was in the commission of committing another felony. This also goes for any other burglar accompanying him who didn't even shoot a gun, he too will be charged and convicted of first degree murder.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything that PROVES Casey used chloroform. A search on her computer is not enough to PROVE that she used it.. even if chloroform is found.. where is the link that shows CASEY was the one that used it.

I guess the point is circumstantial evidence can have a jury go either way. Add the DP and I think they really have to show HOW Casey did it or have physical evidence to show Casey's connection to the chloroform.

IMO

 

[Bishoptutu]

I think the searches can very reasonably (and possibly accurately) be explained away, as our very own member JWG has already demonstrated through some very logical analysis of the evidence, and the 31 days IMO are because she doesn't have the guts to own up to what really happened, but that could very well be because she has some responsibility for Caylee's death, even if she didn't actually murder her.

Ok so a juror is supposed to believe a woman that was NOT afraid to lie to police and even go with them to job she did not have, did not have the guts to admit she killed her child? If I was a juror my first thought would be, 'Well on those tapes she doesn't sound like she doesn't have guts. Not only does she have guts she has an incredible sack of #$*^&!'

In this case I think Casey is her own worst enemy. Her own words (lies) will make it hard for a juror to believe ANYTHING that she said about this case. So if we can't believe her we have to rely on the evidence and this evidence does not point to an accident. If it did I would give Casey the benefit of the doubt.

As a juror though not knowing the WHY behind it would be a stumbling block for me. I still don't get what Casey had to gain by doing this. yeah some would say it was her freedom but I don't think that's it.

 

[Mendara]

Fortunately, there are videotapes of Caylee on Sunday June 15 and Casey minus Caylee on June 16.

Both Casey's and Caylee's demeanors on those days were recorded and are out for all the world to see.

Casey's cell phone addiction is a wonderful bonus for the prosecutors.I think there is a mountain of official record that can't be disputed...like texts and pings. Casey even posed for pictures to prove the witnesses were spot-on about her being her usual bubbly self.

Let us not forget the trip to Blockbuster on the very day she discovered her child was kidnapped - where she states she was out looking for her very frantic and yet here we have her ARM and ARM LOVEY and DOVEY at Blockbuster video. FREAKIN CRAZY - BAEZ NO WAY YOU WILL WIN>

The DEVIL is in the DETAILS - she is an evil moster.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything that PROVES Casey used chloroform. A search on her computer is not enough to PROVE that she used it.. even if chloroform is found.. where is the link that shows CASEY was the one that used it.

I guess the point is circumstantial evidence can have a jury go either way. Add the DP and I think they really have to show HOW Casey did it or have physical evidence to show Casey's connection to the chloroform.

IMO

ITA. They need alot more than that computer search. I agree to get the DP they are going to have to prove how she did it. I don't see the jury going with DP unless the SA can prove a plan, pre-meditation to kill Caylee. In fact even with chloroform proof, I think they will still need to prove to the jury that KC's intention was to kill Caylee.

 

[Mendara]

I think the searches can very reasonably (and possibly accurately) be explained away, as our very own member JWG has already demonstrated through some very logical analysis of the evidence, and the 31 days IMO are because she doesn't have the guts to own up to what really happened, but that could very well be because she has some responsibility for Caylee's death, even if she didn't actually murder her.

Tim Miller will take care of that. I hope he is a witness for the prosecution.

 

[PoppyH]

I think the searches can very reasonably (and possibly accurately) be explained away, as our very own member JWG has already demonstrated through some very logical analysis of the evidence, and the 31 days IMO are because she doesn't have the guts to own up to what really happened, but that could very well be because she has some responsibility for Caylee's death, even if she didn't actually murder her.

Im sure the DP is back on the table for a darn good reason yet unknown to us, They just didn't pull things out of thier rear end just because they felt it was a good Ideal to slap her with DP

 

[coco puff]

I am worried about the fact that the state doesn't have a cause of death.

I hear you but still.... I really don't understand why it matters. She IS dead and she DID have duct tape on her mouth. Ya don't duct tape a dead person. It is crazy to think that KC staged the sceen. No evidence points to that. If she was staging it, you would think she'd know better than to hide the body 500 yards from her own house WITH contents FROM her own house.

 

[Searchfortruth]

To me, this is the big one. They will have to plant a picture of the event in the mind of the jury. That will include not only the who, but the how, when, where, and why. The LE will need evidence on each one of those to prove each part of the picture is real.

It is often said to the jury, by the state, that when a cause of death can not be determined because the murderer was successful in keeping the body hiden after death, that murderer SHOULD NOT be rewarded for that success. This, hopefully, will be an argument the state uses in this case. In other words, Casey should not be rewarded for hiding Caylee's body so that advanced decomposition set in making the determination of a cause of death impossible.

 

[evergreen]

the jury.:twocents:

 

[zadari]

Based on the evidence presented to the public so far...

1. The State doesn't have a cause of death.
2. The State doesn't know where the death occurred.
3. The State doesn't know exactly when the death occurred.
4. The State doesn't have any evidence directly linking KC to the death.
5. The State doesn't have any evidence of prior abuse or history of neglect.
6. The State doesn't have any evidence to suggest KC would be capable (mentally, morally) of coldly murdering her daughter.
7. Several of the State's witnesses (KC's friends) all seemed to turn on her at the same time the media frenzy started, indicating they wanted to distance themselves from her only after the case broke and didn't have issues with her before. This suggests there are other reasons they are all so 'ready' to testify against her, weakening their credibility as character witnesses.
8. KW and DC will both testify that they searched the woods and didn't find a body, which will place some skepticism on claims the body was there since August.
9. Investigators/LE screwed up a few times (eg, additional hairs found in the car, premature/accidental release of jail videos, etc) that may render some forensic and other evidence inadmissible or other technical/procedural issues.

IMO, the State has a lot of work to do... which is as it should be.

i dunno they must have something concrete to go after the DP when they werent going for it before .. theres alot we dont know imho