Dr. Lee's Book

[sissi]

This is wrong, very, very wrong.

You have to consider the irrational as well. This is a basic theme in the study of the criminal mind, the killer, the sociopath, the psychopath.

It is also basic to the study of belief and belief systems.

And, btw, sociopathy, psychopathy and religion all too often are indistinguishable.

The content of the note, 118, Victory! S.B.T.C , delivery, calling, proper burial, etc. coupled with; the death occurring on a sacred Christian holiday derived from pagan death and resurrection myths and Patsy's own admission of a percieved relationship with a super-natural being, hearing voices, her pleas for resurrection of the girl and the stange content of DOI, the many references to The Psalms in the case and the many similarities between literature Patsy is known to have been involved with and facts of the case, all point to a crime that if not out-right premeditated was the result of pre-existing patterns of behavior and compulsive thought.

I believe Patsy was "hooked into" her God during her recovery and again following Jonbenet's death,however I see nothing to indicate she was suffering from psychosis. During her "drugged" period,following Jonbenet's death, and possibly under the influence of valium while waiting for a kidnapper's call,sure she may have had a drug induced psychosis,however this was not her normal character. I say psychosis because the "hearing of voices" the lack of contact with reality is beyond sociopathic behaviors.
To expect this murder to have been committed by a sociopath/psychopath seems reasonable, but IMO the perp isn't a Ramsey.

 

[sissi]

Lee said on Crier that panties were tested ..trace dna ..fresh from package..could it be..lalala..
It made me think..hmm..do ya'all remember this?
BOULDER - Police are re-examining the 1997 Susannah Chase murder with the help of a DNA test that reveals a suspect's ethnicity.

The method, available for less than a year, points to a Hispanic or American Indian as the suspect in a case that shocked the city, Sgt. Kerry Yamaguchi said Tuesday.

Was the DNA found on Jonbenet tested for ethnicity? Are the investigators assuming there are no Asians in Boulder,other than Sgt. Yamaguchi? If so, can anyone with close ties to this city enlight us a bit? Are there Asian photographers, choreographers, stage workers, handymen? Was Nathan Inouye's dna sampled?

 

[Jayelles]

Lee said on Crier that panties were tested ..trace dna ..fresh from package..could it be..lalala..
It made me think..hmm..do ya'all remember this?
BOULDER - Police are re-examining the 1997 Susannah Chase murder with the help of a DNA test that reveals a suspect's ethnicity.

The method, available for less than a year, points to a Hispanic or American Indian as the suspect in a case that shocked the city, Sgt. Kerry Yamaguchi said Tuesday.

Was the DNA found on Jonbenet tested for ethnicity? Are the investigators assuming there are no Asians in Boulder,other than Sgt. Yamaguchi? If so, can anyone with close ties to this city enlight us a bit? Are there Asian photographers, choreographers, stage workers, handymen? Was Nathan Inouye's dna sampled?

Apparently, it depends what kind of DNA they are dealing with. Mitochondrial DNA can tell ethnicity. However it can also only say that the DNA belongs to a member of the female side of a family. In the vanDam case, there were blonde hairs found in Westerfield's motorhome. One of these was determined to be Asian (that raised a few eyebrows!). It came from Westerfield's former Asian girlfriend Susan. Others were proved to be vanDam but they could only say that they belonged to either Brenda or one of her three children. Without nuclear DNA, a positive ID cannot be narrowed down to one person.

I should add that race cannot be determined from nuclear DNA - yet. The reason they can determine it from mtDNA is because a huge database exists and they know the race of the people on it.

 

[sissi]

I could be wrong,but I do believe the method you describe has been used since the early nineties, the article was referencing a new (within a year) method.

 

[Jayelles]

I could be wrong,but I do believe the method you describe has been used since the early nineties, the article was referencing a new (within a year) method.

Summer last year, I contacted scientists working on the Human Genome project about this and they said that quite emphatically that race could not be determined from DNA. In fact, the response was "what is race?" or "how does one define race?" (something like that). mtDNA is different because they have such a humungous collection of data where they know the race of the people so it was a case of matching against historical data.

I don't know enough about it. I thought the people on the Human Genome project would be likely to know if there was a breakthrough on this. I remember there being posts about DNA and race earlier this year, but I thought it wound up being a pig in a poke.

 

[Toltec]

BC...I don't believe the ligature device was a garrote either. Never have. I'm not convinced it was an EA device, but I agree it could have been.

If the mark was from a stun gun ( I don't believe it was), would the fact that a stun gun had been brought into the R house necessarily indicate premeditated murder?

imo

Police brutality lives in San Jose CA...the police used a stun gun on my sons best friend and he had to go to the hospital for stitches...

 

[twizzler333]

This is wrong, very, very wrong.

You have to consider the irrational as well. This is a basic theme in the study of the criminal mind, the killer, the sociopath, the psychopath.

It is also basic to the study of belief and belief systems.

And, btw, sociopathy, psychopathy and religion all too often are indistinguishable.

The content of the note, 118, Victory! S.B.T.C , delivery, calling, proper burial, etc. coupled with; the death occurring on a sacred Christian holiday derived from pagan death and resurrection myths and Patsy's own admission of a percieved relationship with a super-natural being, hearing voices, her pleas for resurrection of the girl and the stange content of DOI, the many references to The Psalms in the case and the many similarities between literature Patsy is known to have been involved with and facts of the case, all point to a crime that if not out-right premeditated was the result of pre-existing patterns of behavior and compulsive thought.

Are people like described above people who are "soccer moms", PTA parents, cupcakes at school moms, decorate and show off your house moms, very sociable and always going the extra mile to take care of their kids? OR are they withdrawn from society a bit, keeps themselves home a lot, takes care of the kids but in a quiter more subdued fashion?

I don't know much about what you speak of, yet I find it interesting, but it just seems to me like the kind of person you are describing would be an introvert type of person, quiet, obedient to their husbands, not drawing much attention to themselves, etc. Help me out in understanding more about the type of life this kind of person leads.

Thanks.

 

[twizzler333]

Police brutality lives in San Jose CA...the police used a stun gun on my sons best friend and he had to go to the hospital for stitches...

Did you happen to see the marks it left? I have always wanted to compare other marks with those of JonBenet's to see if they are similar.

We had a recent death in my state where a 39 year old male was out of control while being arrested, and they used a Taser on him. He died and the autopsy stated that his death was heart related but also they mentioned the Taser stun gun. Now Taser has called and asked that they remove any references to the stun gun from the official cause of death on the autopsy report and death certificate. This is a new case, not sure what will come of it, but Taser is adament that they NOT be mentioned in this case whatsoever.

 

[BrotherMoon]

Help me out in understanding more about the type of life this kind of person leads.
Thanks.

Dual.

In Patsy's case, I think she had a private life lived in books. Gradually, and then increasingly as the "deadline" of 12/25/96 approached the private fantasy life crossed over into the temporal realm. This is typical of progressive psychosis.

 

[sissi]

She seemed so in touch with reality BrotherMoon, how can you apply these things to her? She was busy, each and every day was full, she made certain the kids had playdates, she skated in NYC and shopped with Jonbenet, she returned shortly after to shop with her friends, she prepared and decorated for the holidays,she made social dates for the entire family,including that Christmas party of the 23rd,her birthday party and yet another Christmas party. I read ,and suspect Patsy did as well, but to climb into bed ,open that book and stay awake for more than ten minutes is difficult when your days are full and your body is tired. What you suggest is IMO is a person who lives through fantasy and is out of touch with reality, this surely isn't the Patsy described by family and friends.
IMO

 

[K777angel]

This is wrong, very, very wrong.

You have to consider the irrational as well. This is a basic theme in the study of the criminal mind, the killer, the sociopath, the psychopath.

It is also basic to the study of belief and belief systems.

And, btw, sociopathy, psychopathy and religion all too often are indistinguishable.

The content of the note, 118, Victory! S.B.T.C , delivery, calling, proper burial, etc. coupled with; the death occurring on a sacred Christian holiday derived from pagan death and resurrection myths and Patsy's own admission of a percieved relationship with a super-natural being, hearing voices, her pleas for resurrection of the girl and the stange content of DOI, the many references to The Psalms in the case and the many similarities between literature Patsy is known to have been involved with and facts of the case, all point to a crime that if not out-right premeditated was the result of pre-existing patterns of behavior and compulsive thought.

I'm sorry. Nothing you say makes sense. Perhaps if you remove your Tarrot cards, Oujia board and crystal ball.....

 

[sissi]

For a second Brothermoon, no offense to Patsy, she isn't creative enough to be psychotic. She's not that interesting, doesn't seem to have much depth. (btw giving her a 136 is about 36 points off) She is a very unlikeable figure,hence (yeah why not) people like to hate her. She would likely find a tough time of it making friends north of the Mason Dixon line or west of the Appalachians. She probably looks great in the morning, ugh, and is clearly too damn perky.Her taste in fashion and decor surely never sat well among the birkenstock crowd and clearly offended the senses of many. To boot! she was a damn livin' fairy tale! ..lived like a princess,married well, had her two (don't know where the point 5 fits in) children, moved to her castle with the fresh air and view to kill for.
Edit to add, She had a good relationship with her God.
Does anyone who thinks Patsy killed her child feel this way? You betcha!
IMO she didn't,she's innocent!

 

[TressaRing28]

Dual.

In Patsy's case, I think she had a private life lived in books. Gradually, and then increasingly as the "deadline" of 12/25/96 approached the private fantasy life crossed over into the temporal realm. This is typical of progressive psychosis.

BrotherMoon, Patsy said in "Police Files" that she read magazines and not into books . How do you answer this??

Of course She read in school and Brody at paegant. But as a wife and mother she mostly read mags.

 

[KATKAT19691]

BlueCrab... forensic pathologist Werner Spitz said, "A stun gun injury is an electrical burn, and these do not look like electrical burns.”

imo

the distance between the two marks found on JBR are NOT the correct distance between the prongs of a stun gun.

 

[sissi]

the distance between the two marks found on JBR are NOT the correct distance between the prongs of a stun gun.

Yet experts believe they match very well! Go figure! There are experts who say she was molested prior to her death,there are experts who say she wasn't. There are experts who say the dna is important,there are experts that claim it isn't. The evidence is up for interpretation leaving us to pick which ones best fit our own personal scenario. There is no conclusive scientific evidence. Science, doesn't seem to be a factor in this case.
IMO

 

[TLynn]

Also, forgotten to mention in the staged crime scene (that Angel777 described so well) --

how loose the rope was around her wrists. This would not have restrained her - not for EA, not for molestation, not for strangulation, not for anything done to her. She was already unconscious...probably from the head blow.

 

[TressaRing28]

Also, forgotten to mention in the staged crime scene (that Angel777 described so well) --

how loose the rope was around her wrists. This would not have restrained her - not for EA, not for molestation, not for strangulation, not for anything done to her. She was already unconscious...probably from the head blow.

Hum good question --- John said in Police Files that the cording around her wrist were tight and he loosened them... :waitasec:

 

[Nehemiah]

While I have much respect for Lee, there are statements in his book that are inconsistent with what we have been told/read before. He says that the Ramseys returned home on Christmas Night at 11 p.m.

 

[cookie]

"Police brutality lives in San Jose CA...the police used a stun gun on my sons best friend and he had to go to the hospital for stitches..."

Are you saying that the stun gun itself caused a cut on him?

 

[K777angel]

Also, forgotten to mention in the staged crime scene (that Angel777 described so well) --

how loose the rope was around her wrists. This would not have restrained her - not for EA, not for molestation, not for strangulation, not for anything done to her. She was already unconscious...probably from the head blow.

This is just one of the reasons that the crime scene was determined "staged" by law enforcement and the FBI.
There is no point to loosely tie that cord around her wrists unless it was for show only. Same thing with the tape on the mouth. There is no evidence at all that she was conscious when that tape was applied. No tongue impression nor any skin irritation around the mouth one would expect to see.
And there is also no evidence of any struggle when analyzing the cord around the neck. It is completely even all around and while the cord was pulled tight (because the stager's purpose was to indicate death by strangulation - not the original head blow which stager assumed had already caused death) there was no injury to her hyoid bone in her neck or even the strap muscles in her neck as is seen in true purposeful strangulations.

The cord on the right wrist was "loose." The one on her left wrist apparently was either taken off by John Ramsey down there or was never even placed on her. Although I recall John Ramsey stating that he tried to untie the cord on the wrist but couldn't because it was so "tight."