Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[CoreyRocks]

Wow. Shocked and appalled. Nothing could have prepared me for watching DP answers program. IMHO it was even worse than I could have imagined.

Initially way back when we found out Burke would be on I thought it was Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday consecutively, right? I thought so. I was surprised Part 3 is on next Monday. Isn't that technically why they had an extra day. Wasn't next Mondays show supposed to be on this past Wednesday immediately following part 1 and 2?

Anyway imho DP can sure shovel it, and does he seriously expect us to swallow it. Unreal!

 

[dizzychick]

Good post OBE. I am of the opinion the Ramsey's had nothing to do with their daughters murder especially now that 1) DNA from an unknown person was found on JBR'S clothing and 2) LE has publicly cleared the Ramsey family. LE says you follow the evidence and in this case its the DNA.

I admit the pineapple is very difficult to explain but so far I don't see any evidence that points to Burke, Patsy or John. Missing pieces of the puzzle for sure.

IMO I think that the killer was a stranger to the family who became obsessed with JBR after following her pageants. He could have been carrying this obsession for a very long time until he finally breaks into the Ramsey home that Christmas day when no one was home. He probably snooped around, read stuff on JR'S desk, went into JBR's room, etc. He could have devised his plan to kidnap her right then and there and sat down and wrote the lengthy ransom note when no one was home as he lay in wait in the basement. He could have stayed there until everyone went to bed. Perhaps he did not intend on killing JB but for whatever reason he did. This is a a theory I'd like to believe before I suspect the Ramseys. If there is forensic evidence against the Ramseys then of course I'll think differently.

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Did I not read the prints on the flashlight were wiped clean of any prints? that would be odd considering Burke said he used it to go downstairs and play with his Christmas toys and John said he used it to put him back to bed.

The note clearly says if you so much as talk to a stray dog she DIES, so what do they do? They call in all their stray dog friends plus a priest and the cops first rattle out of the box, this to me says they had no fear for what that note said, and that would be due to them having knowlege as to who wrote it...

 

[CoreyRocks]

I was surprised to hear on DP's damage - control spin till your dizzy show that a Ramsey friend called them and told them that "the BPD are setting you up" and "the BPD are targeting PR". Which friend? Most of them were there at the house with them that morning. I have never heard this before.

Also the snow thing ... they show pictures with the sun up looking later in the day, almost summerlike. It was still dark, frosty, and snow still on the grassy parts. They selectively cropped the photos. Ack.

Moo.

 

[dizzychick]

Thanks Dedee but that makes no sense. So with the time ft one JR said they arrived home from party she would have been attack within an hour's time and BR could have been up and downstairs putting his toy together.

the neighbor heard a child's scream but I cant recall what time it was maybe 11 oclock? If Burke did something to her this may have been when it happend and why they used December 25th as her date of death instead of the 26th when she was found

 

[PositiveLight]

Good post OBE. I am of the opinion the Ramsey's had nothing to do with their daughters murder especially now that 1) DNA from an unknown person was found on JBR'S clothing and 2) LE has publicly cleared the Ramsey family. LE says you follow the evidence and in this case its the DNA.

I admit the pineapple is very difficult to explain but so far I don't see any evidence that points to Burke, Patsy or John. Missing pieces of the puzzle for sure.

IMO I think that the killer was a stranger to the family who became obsessed with JBR after following her pageants. He could have been carrying this obsession for a very long time until he finally breaks into the Ramsey home that Christmas day when no one was home. He probably snooped around, read stuff on JR'S desk, went into JBR's room, etc. He could have devised his plan to kidnap her right then and there and sat down and wrote the lengthy ransom note when no one was home as he lay in wait in the basement. He could have stayed there until everyone went to bed. Perhaps he did not intend on killing JB but for whatever reason he did. This is a a theory I'd like to believe before I suspect the Ramseys. If there is forensic evidence against the Ramseys then of course I'll think differently.

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If I'm not mistaken, the DNA they used to exclude the Ramsey's was touch DNA
Not very good to exonerate with. Plus instead of using the customary 13 points on the DNA to test it, they lowered the amount to only 4 points. Which could be anyone. So to me imho everything points more towards them than an intruder. Until the DP interview, no one recognized the flashlight thought to be the possible weapon that cracked her skull. Burkes fingerprints on on the mysterious glass of tea. Patsy's fingerprint was on the bowl of pineapple. Both of their DNA was on the pineapple. Everything the intruder supposedly used, was found from all over the home. Burkes Swiss army knife which was confiscated and hid by their housekeeper in a remote closet was found by her body. The flashlight was kept in a drawer near the spiral staircase. The duct tape was in another place. Let's not forget the ransom note was never ruled out as being written by Patsy.
Mind you I could be wrong though. I've tried over the years to find an intruder theory. I've never been successful. So much points to them instead of away from them.
The evidence screams they had a hand in it. The more I learn the louder the scream becomes.
Moo

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[dizzychick]

If I'm not mistaken, the DNA they used to exclude the Ramsey's was touch DNA
Not very good to exonerate with. Plus instead of using the customary 13 points on the DNA to test it, they lowered the amount to only 4 points. Which could be anyone. So to me imho everything points more towards them than an intruder. Until the DP interview, no one recognized the flashlight thought to be the possible weapon that cracked her skull. Burkes fingerprints on on the mysterious glass of tea. Patsy's fingerprint was on the bowl of pineapple. Both of their DNA was on the pineapple. Everything the intruder supposedly used, was found from all over the home. Burkes Swiss army knife which was confiscated and hid by their housekeeper in a remote closet was found by her body. The flashlight was kept in a drawer near the spiral staircase. The duct tape was in another place. Let's not forget the ransom note was never ruled out as being written by Patsy.
Mind you I could be wrong though. I've tried over the years to find an intruder theory. I've never been successful. So much points to them instead of away from them.
The evidence screams they had a hand in it. The more I learn the louder the scream becomes.
Moo

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I feel bad for the cops on this one. I think they were right and I wonder why they kept the fact the GJ wanted to press charges ? They must have seen enough evidence to surmise the parents had something to do with this crime.

 

[Tadpole12]

How much re editing do you think they have done on the last episode? I bet a ton. I don't understand why he didn't go ahead and show the Monday episode yesterday. If DP wanted to do a Q&A then do it on monday. I honestly do not think what we see Monday will be the same show that was initially going to air. I think the reason they didn't show Monday's episode yesterday is because they had to go back to the drawing board.

What gets me is this. If they were completely innocent, there would be no reason to do a rebuttal. Yet DP felt it was necessary to do it. Why? Because BR was buckling under the pressure and giving away too many secrets. Such as him being downstairs when everyone was supposedly asleep.
When asked if he turned the lights on he couldn't remember. But he dang sure remembered playing with a toy?
What happened is he forgot what he was coached to say and couldn't think on his feet. IMOO

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<modsnip>

That could well be.
The final includes
BR fond memories of
his sister, incl 'elevator story'


BR: we used to fight over who pushed the button
on the elevator, every time we go to the elevator,
there's a whole thing about that....


And his theories on the murder.

It might need to tweaked

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Did I not read the prints on the flashlight were wiped clean of any prints? that would be odd considering Burke said he used it to go downstairs and play with his Christmas toys and John said he used it to put him back to bed.

The note clearly says if you so much as talk to a stray dog she DIES, so what do they do? They call in all their stray dog friends plus a priest and the cops first rattle out of the box, this to me says they had no fear for what that note said, and that would be due to them having knowlege as to who wrote it...

Why not hide or dispose the flashlight or even mention it f it was used to commit a murder. Why leave the pineapple on the table if there was something suspicious about it.

And what would be the Ramseys purpose of such a lengthy ransom note knowing their daughter was dead. It's overkill and makes no sense. It wasn't needed and they would surely know that such a note would be analyzed by a handwriting expert. By calling the police they surely would know that the house would be searched and JBR would be found. If she was accidently hit, they could have easily left her in that state, why the overkill with the sexual assault and the garrot strangulation?

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[Charlie]

Did I not read the prints on the flashlight were wiped clean of any prints? that would be odd considering Burke said he used it to go downstairs and play with his Christmas toys and John said he used it to put him back to bed.

The note clearly says if you so much as talk to a stray dog she DIES, so what do they do? They call in all their stray dog friends plus a priest and the cops first rattle out of the box, this to me says they had no fear for what that note said, and that would be due to them having knowlege as to who wrote it...

Agreed. What innocent parent invites over four friends and their pastor when a ransom note states there daughter will be beheaded, that in itself speaks volumes! The Ramsey's knew she was already dead, they knew no one was watching the house, therefore no risk in inviting over five people.

 

[observation]

Why not hide or dispose the flashlight or even mention it f it was used to commit a murder. Why leave the pineapple on the table if there was something suspicious about it.

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We are not dealing with expert criminals. This was an "inside job" after all. They sure are smart and crafty but not perfect.


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[YouWho]

Good post OBE. I am of the opinion the Ramsey's had nothing to do with their daughters murder especially now that 1) DNA from an unknown person was found on JBR'S clothing and 2) LE has publicly cleared the Ramsey family. LE says you follow the evidence and in this case its the DNA.

I admit the pineapple is very difficult to explain but so far I don't see any evidence that points to Burke, Patsy or John. Missing pieces of the puzzle for sure.

IMO I think that the killer was a stranger to the family who became obsessed with JBR after following her pageants. He could have been carrying this obsession for a very long time until he finally breaks into the Ramsey home that Christmas day when no one was home. He probably snooped around, read stuff on JR'S desk, went into JBR's room, etc. He could have devised his plan to kidnap her right then and there and sat down and wrote the lengthy ransom note when no one was home as he lay in wait in the basement. He could have stayed there until everyone went to bed. Perhaps he did not intend on killing JB but for whatever reason he did. This is a a theory I'd like to believe before I suspect the Ramseys. If there is forensic evidence against the Ramseys then of course I'll think differently.

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I think you meant the DA cleared the Ramsey's, most definately not law enforcement.

Any one of us and our clothes could be scraped and swabbed right now and they'd find touch DNA on us from people completely unrelated to our households and complete strangers, like the gentleman I bumped into at the grocery store today, the co-worker whom I hugged this afternoon, my dry-cleaner.

JonBenet's underwear (maybe I'm old, but I cannot use the word panties, it seems highly inappropriate) were brand new out of a just-opened package. Never been washed. Touch DNA was found on the underwear which could have been deposited by the factory workers in Taiwan where the Bloomies were manufactured.

In fact, based on trace Touch DNA testing results, we should be looking for six different individuals because there are six separate profiles, five males and one female. It's a relatively new technology. If I were a murderer and I were a suspect, I'd tell my lawyer to scrape, scrape, scrape until she finds so much trace Touch DNA that perhaps I'd be aquitted. There's only one problem. I'm not a multi-millionaire so I probably couldn't afford a defense like that. (Anybody besides me and UKGuy watching Rich and Aquitted?)

 

[dizzychick]

Why not hide or dispose the flashlight or even mention it f it was used to commit a murder. Why leave the pineapple on the table if there was something suspicious about it.

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you know what they say about criminals or crimes in general, you never remember everything. They may have not even realized Burke got the pienapple and the Tea, they didnt know Jon Benet was downstairs with him perhaps until they heard the same scream the neighbor heard, who knows. I know this it will never be solved and as many years that have passed even if Burke comes out with some sort of confession i would just think he is tetched as my mom would say to make such an admission.

 

[8paws]

So what Dr Phil is on the Ramsey Spin Train? Of course he was going to be -- how do you think he got the Burke interview in the first place?

And again, what does it matter? Dr Phil is not a detective, he doesn't have access to all the evidence or documents. He's just a guy with a talk show who has gone Hollywood and is a sell-out. And none of that is new, btw.

Nothing Phil says or Lin Woods says or anyone says is going to alter the truth. The truth will not change no matter who opines what. No one is going to be arrested or prosecuted for this killing anyway. People who have delved into the case and looked at the available evidence, documents and read what they could have formed their opinion and nothing Phil says is going to change it.

It didn't change *my* opinion and I doubt it changed any of yours.

In the end nothing changes. JBR is still dead. PR is still dead. Whoever inflicted that head trauma is still the person who did it.

DP show did not change my mind in any way! In fact it confirmed for me Burke was out of his bed that night, up in that big old house with a flashlight. AND, DP bringing up that JR put BR to bed that night with the flashlight and BR using it to sneak back downstairs...means something is UP in a big way. Can't wait for Sunday night.

 

[PositiveLight]

DP show did not change my mind in any way! In fact it confirmed for me Burke was out of his bed that night, up in that big old house with a flashlight. AND, DP bringing up that JR put BR to bed that night with the flashlight and BR using it to sneak back downstairs...means something is UP in a big way. Can't wait for Sunday night.

Agreed! I hope Sunday we are closer to the truth after all this time. Something scared the Ramsey's into jumping ahead of all the new shows coming out about her murder.
THAT speaks volumes to me.

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[Charlie]

Why not hide or dispose the flashlight or even mention it f it was used to commit a murder. Why leave the pineapple on the table if there was something suspicious about it.

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I believe JR and Patsy didn't know JB had eaten the pineapple, had they known they would have concocted a better timeline.

I think disposing the flashlight would have been risky. Instead the flashlight was wiped down on the exterior, and interior batteries. Patsy and JR most likely thought that was enough. If you read the BPD interviews, JR distances himself from even using flashlights saying they never had reliable batteries in them. Its interesting now though that suddenly he used a flashlight on the night of the murder.

 

[dizzychick]

I believe JR and Patsy didn't know JB had eaten the pineapple, had they known they would have concocted a better timeline.

I think disposing the flashlight would have been risky. Instead the flashlight was wiped down on the exterior, and interior batteries. Patsy and JR most likely thought that was enough. If you read the BPD interviews, JR distances himself from even using flashlights saying they never had reliable batteries in them. Its interesting now though that suddenly he used a flashlight on the night of the murder.

Don't forget the duct tape it was never found, the roll used to cover her mouth, but either one of them could have easliy taken it out in their luggage you know they didnt stay in that house after the 26th. I would like to know if they had a fire going in the fireplace which is a great way to destroy evidence. I wonder what a burned up roll of duct tape would look like ? And ofcourse had this been the case and the tpe was discovered they would have just said the killer did it, well the killer did do it they would just say " Not be buddy, go back to the drawing board lol

 

[Madeleine74]

Where there was NO sign on an intruder, unlike Smit scraping his butt on the window sill... spider webs still on the grate....

My whole list, which included this bit, was facetious, showing how ridiculous the "intruder" theory was.

 

[Madeleine74]

Instead the flashlight was wiped down on the exterior, and interior batteries.

Yes wasn't it just so helpful for the "intruder" to clean up after himself? He even went to the trouble to wipe down the flashlight inside. That's a really conscientious "intruder." Good help is so hard to find these days, eh?

 

[Madeleine74]

I feel bad for the cops on this one. I think they were right and I wonder why they kept the fact the GJ wanted to press charges ? They must have seen enough evidence to surmise the parents had something to do with this crime.

By law they were bound to silence. All GJ proceedings are secret.

 

[otg]

Yes wasn't it just so helpful for the "intruder" to clean up after himself? He even went to the trouble to wipe down the flashlight inside. That's a really conscientious "intruder." Good help is so hard to find these days, eh?

:floorlaugh:

Good.