Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[PositiveLight]

BBM

Perhaps the Ramseys did not know the coroner would perform an autopsy? The coroner missed the grave head wound himself during his first examination at the scene. As we know the head blow was discovered later during the autopsy. The ligature/ garrote was to "tell the story" ad hoc and to divert from the truth.

-Nin

That's actually what I've thought occasionally too. They thought the coroner wouldnt do an autopsy after seeing the ligature.

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[PositiveLight]

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone....I've been doing the exact opposite.

Both kids were living in dysfunction junction and clearly had some issues yet one of them is being blamed for it all as if a trail of bread crumbs leads directly to him. There were two children living in that house and since none of this was tested, that means there are two possibilities.


You don't have to specifically state one way or another. Anyone blaming Burke to the extent he is saving and sculpting poop and then throwing it like a monkey is clearly BDI. Amazing that an old feces smear on a wall and some in a pair of PJs can somehow create such an elaborate fantasy. While there's certainly nothing wrong with speculation as we all do it on this case, I'm in the now minority that likes to see the speculation grounded in something resembling reality.

All your posts are about discussing how "disturbed" Burke is so no need for any pretense about not diagnosing him. You've got him throwing his poop around the house like a monkey and joyfully laughing about her murder. Your descriptions and scenarios regarding Burke are speaking of someone who had a free fall descent into madness. LIke many others, I have read the books, watched the docs, etc. and I have never seen anyone involved in the case come anywhere near describing Burke to such a magnitude.

Yes....we all have buttholes.


I certainly agree with you on one thing....Burke was a victim.


Indeed.

IMO it does a huge disservice to the case. BDI is nothing new obviously. Long time members like you and otg(and others) have had this position for years and with loads of research and well thought out points, attempt to make a realistic case for it. What is new is him being morphed into this stark raving mad lunatic who flings poop, bludgeons over pineapple, and laughs maniacally about it. This train of thought did not exist before the CBS doc aired. If that's what people took from it, then it was even worse than I initially thought.

Yeah and this goes back to both children having some major problems in this department and a lengthy history of it. Even though we have no way of knowing who was responsible for each of those incidents, it is all being thrown in Burke's direction.


That's a very good question and one I'd like to see an answer to. That whole "the manure hit the fan in the breakfast bar" scenario has never had an adequate explanation.

Also last I checked, JonBenet was the one found bashed on the head, sexually assaulted and strangled. Not Burke. So obviously JonBenet couldn't have done that all to herself. So yes the breadcrumbs in my opinion lead to BR as a possible killer. [emoji87]

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[singularity]

I'm just curious. Are you basically saying anyone new to the forums can't actually add anything to the discussion? That we can't also come to conclusions or think outside the box? I don't think she believed ever said BR was slinging poop everywhere like a monkey. Smearing and slinging are two different things. But hey if no one else's ideas are welcome I get it. [emoji87]

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Since I never said new people cant add anything to the discussion, you already know the answer to your question. I also never said people cant think outside the box. You need to read the last few pages of this thread if you think it was never stated that Burke slings his poop around like a monkey. In fact, its a few posts above yours.

Also last I checked, JonBenet was the one found bashed on the head, sexually assaulted and strangled. Not Burke. So obviously JonBenet couldn't have done that all to herself. So yes the breadcrumbs in my opinion lead to BR as a possible killer. [emoji87]

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This is a straw man. One that is in very bad taste I might add. I obviously never stated a dead child could bludgeon, strangle, and sexually assault herself.

You know exactly what I was referring to in that comment(their soiling issues) and not her actual murder.

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

Singularity,

My monkey comment, had you bothered to read the following posts was an answer to a question asked of me, How I thought BR put the feces there. Monkeys use their hands to handle the poo. The other poster actually mentioned throwing it and I said no, he used his hands. I'm not the only one here to think he showed glee and joy when talking about JBR.

I've apologized for the Butt hole comment, it was rude. Since it seems that you missed that post to, let me repeat myself. Im sorry for the rude comment, It was a lame attempt at humour, I seem to have failed.

I'm also sorry that you don't like my opinion as I've always respected yours.

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

I took the findings to be the play pants were a skid mark in JonBenets. The pj pants had fecal material ( maybe more than a smear and they were too big for JonBenet) and the grapefruit sized amount if feces that the housekeeper found was just to give an amount. Not that it was shaped like it. As in someone squatted and took a dump then covered it with the sheets to shock JonBenet. The fecal matter on the candy box was fecal matter. The CSI I doubt seriously would state that if they didn't know for sure if it was or not. It probably smelled. I am sure too that they did DNA- on the fecal matter to discern whose it was. That may be part of the evidence not known to us. But Kolar who had his hands on all the evidence probably new this part that we the readers don't. Let's give some credit to those who are trained in their field. If the CSI said it was fecal material, it was. It makes sense if you think about it. BR pops a squat to poo a little then uses it to wipe on her box of candy. Leaves his pants on the ground in her room. I would venture to guess that he did it after they opened gifts that morning. He was probably mad he didnt get a bike too. This is how I see it occurring and it's just my opinion. But the least we can do is give some credit to the CSI team and Kolar for knowing what they were looking at. That the proper tests probably were done to figure out who it belonged to. Because it is a major crime scene and the perp was Unknown at the time and it would be VERY important to do this testing. Remember we haven't seen all the evidence. If the pj pants, play pants, and box of candy are still in evidence it can be retested to prove it if it wasn't done already. But I would think that it was already tested. JMOO. BR showed signs of scatological behavior before her death. More than one housekeeper said so. JonBenet had issues cleaning herself. So skid marks wouldn't be a surprise to me. It was in most of her panties too. Stains from previous bad wiping. Or she was holding it to the last second before finally going to potty like a lot of kids do. They don't want to stop playing to go poop. That is common. What BR displayed was not common. JMOO

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Let us not forget Jim Clemente said the "grapefuit sized ball was partially dried". It had either been in that bed for a long time or someone saved it.

 

[PositiveLight]

Since I never said new people cant add anything to the discussion, you already know the answer to your question. I also never said people cant think outside the box. You need to read the last few pages of this thread if you think it was never stated that Burke slings his poop around like a monkey. In fact, its a few posts above yours.



This is a straw man. One that is in very bad taste I might add. I obviously never stated a dead child could bludgeon, strangle, and sexually assault herself.

You know exactly what I was referring to in that comment(their soiling issues) and not her actual murder.

I know. I just wanted to show you how it was coming off to the reader in your post. I believe everyone can contribute new and old members. I don't want new posters to be scared off by asking questions or thinking out loud. I took offense to it personally. I respect your posts and listen intently well...read intently lol and look to others who have been here from day one. I actually attempted to create a new thread for all the evidence so far discovered so that newbies could go there and see the objects that have been a source of wonder by members. That way they wouldn't have to dig through thousands of posts to see the evidence we do have so far. It's not been approved yet. I know there's a media thread. But this would be one with just the evidence. No discussions really. Just a place to work on theories and have what is possibly clues to work with. Maybe with links to where the object is discussed too. for easy reference. Make sense? Believe me I wasn't attacking you. But we have to be nicer to one another. We are all here for one objective, to find Justice for JonBenet. Some theories you or I may not agree with but we don't have to hurt people in the process. I personally think you were a little hard on she believed. So let's keep it kind and nice even if we don't agree.

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[PositiveLight]

Let us not forget Jim Clemente said the "grapefuit sized ball was partially dried". It had either been in that bed for a long time or someone saved it.

Yes exactly. So it might not have been sculpted but it was dry. I doubt he tried to sculpt it into a piece of art [emoji23]

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[costalpilot]

I don't believe that BR killed JB intentionally per say. I think that something triggered a bout of excessive (childish) rage and he lashed out at her so fiercely that he cracked her skull. I believe that he was jealous of the attention that she got. She had became Patsy's pet project, her living doll and he hated that people fawned over her. He had a lot of pent up frustration toward her.

I can't understand why the ligature/garrote was used. It doesn't make sense to me. If he knew that he had seriously or fatally injured her from hitting her head, then why would he then strangle her to death? I also have problems seeing it as a part of the 'staging', as JB was still (very faintly) alive when she was garroted. Maybe BR didn't realize that she was slowly dying from a head injury and decided to strangle her to finish it off? At this point, I think I'm just thinking out loud. I just can't pinpoint the reasoning behind it.

maybe hes a nut job?

 

[PositiveLight]

I respect every individuals right to their own opinion, even if I don't agree. But giggling about your sisters murder isn't being socially awkward, its creepy. Rolling you feces into a grapefruit sized ball and saving it until it dries, isn't socially awkward, its disturbing. Smearing feces on your siblings candy has nothing to do with being socially awkward. Smiling at your mothers funeral and while you talk about the murder of your sister, goes beyond simple awkwardness.

Dr. Phil worked for months with BR and after all of that time the grinning and giggling fool was the best he could coax out of him. Please! This is a grown man, with an ivy league degree and a pilots license as well as his ability to sail boats. He is not a fool, yet he sat there and acted like one. It appeared to me, as if he felt vindicated. At last the cameras were on him, it was all about him and he could hardly contain his glee.

To be honest, we the general public are the only intruders involved in this case and we arrived after the fact.

If you are referring to this post singularity, I stand by my first response. He didn't say throwing feces. Not arguing just trying to figure out how you came to the thought we were saying he was slinging poop everywhere like a monkey. Just confused. But if you're like me, half the time I'm exhausted and may not make myself clear or come off as rude when I don't mean to be.

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[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

Yes exactly. So it might not have been sculpted but it was dry. I doubt he tried to sculpt it into a piece of art [emoji23]

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LOL! I really think Im being misunderstood. By sculpting, I mean saving and forming a ball and yes it happens my friend as well as far more disturbing things. LOL! I dont picture him forming the stinker I mean the thinker with his poo. LOL. A simple ball being rolled as its drying. Its not that far of a leap from smearing walls, beds, and candy. LOL.

 

[PositiveLight]

LOL! I really think Im being misunderstood. By sculpting, I mean saving and forming a ball and yes it happens my friend as well as far more disturbing things. LOL! I dont picture him forming the stinker I mean the thinker with his poo. LOL. A simple ball being rolled as its drying. Its not that far of a leap from smearing walls, beds, and candy. LOL.

:laughing:I almost said the thinker sculpture myself! LOL
Can't resist!

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

:laughing:I almost said the thinker sculpture myself! LOL
Can't resist!

:silly: :laughcry::floorlaugh:

 

[PositiveLight]

ok off to bed for me! I have an appointment with a specialist 3 hour drive from here and need to attempt sleep! Being sick sucks! Good night all! <3

 

[Ambitioned]

:laughing:I almost said the thinker sculpture myself! LOL
Can't resist!

:lol: :lol:

Be safe PL! I hope you feel better and hurry back.

 

[Heymom]

I don't believe that BR killed JB intentionally per say. I think that something triggered a bout of excessive (childish) rage and he lashed out at her so fiercely that he cracked her skull. I believe that he was jealous of the attention that she got. She had became Patsy's pet project, her living doll and he hated that people fawned over her. He had a lot of pent up frustration toward her.

I can't understand why the ligature/garrote was used. It doesn't make sense to me. If he knew that he had seriously or fatally injured her from hitting her head, then why would he then strangle her to death? I also have problems seeing it as a part of the 'staging', as JB was still (very faintly) alive when she was garroted. Maybe BR didn't realize that she was slowly dying from a head injury and decided to strangle her to finish it off? At this point, I think I'm just thinking out loud. I just can't pinpoint the reasoning behind it.

He was 9, almost 10 years old. He had no idea what he'd done, really. I think he just kept doing things to her as she lay there unable to defend herself, until it was obvious she was gone. Curiosity? Sociopathy? Some element of both? He didn't seem to have any regret or remorse, that's for sure. He still doesn't. I don't think the ligature was part of the staging. I think the scene was in place except for the ransom note when (probably) Patsy found her (and I think Patsy did scream). So they felt they had to cover it up, and John went along with the plan although he may have argued for LE to be called much earlier.

 

[PositiveLight]

[emoji38] [emoji38]

Be safe PL! I hope you feel better and hurry back.

Thank you! On way home now. Not the worst news but not the best either. Ehh. More and more meds. I hate doctors. Nurses are the worst patients.

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[Vi0l3tt3]

He was 9, almost 10 years old. He had no idea what he'd done, really. I think he just kept doing things to her as she lay there unable to defend herself, until it was obvious she was gone. Curiosity? Sociopathy? Some element of both? He didn't seem to have any regret or remorse, that's for sure. He still doesn't. I don't think the ligature was part of the staging. I think the scene was in place except for the ransom note when (probably) Patsy found her (and I think Patsy did scream). So they felt they had to cover it up, and John went along with the plan although he may have argued for LE to be called much earlier.

Thank you. This makes sense now. I agree, he expressed no regret. This seems like the most plausible thing to have happened.

 

[Heymom]

Thank you! On way home now. Not the worst news but not the best either. Ehh. More and more meds. I hate doctors. Nurses are the worst patients.

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Nurses and doctors make the worst patients. Too much knowledge to ever trust in doctors themselves.

 

[Heymom]

Thank you. This makes sense now. I agree, he expressed no regret. This seems like the most plausible thing to have happened.

It's a horrible thing to contemplate, isn't it? That a young child of almost 10 could do such a thing....But I rather agree with the Colorado law - I doubt seriously that even a very disturbed child truly understands death and its permanence. BR may have thought his sister would just get up and be fine at some point. Or maybe he sort of understood what had happened, but not the consequences to himself or his family. The ability to grasp the reality is not reliably there.

But then again, he could really be a sociopath, no remorse at all. I know that once I grasped the reality of my mother's death (I was 10), I was truly grieving and missed her deeply for a long time. I didn't get that impression from Burke's interviews, or his behavior at the funeral, and jumping to his recent interview with DP. I get the distinct impression that he's still pretty happy about it and knows that he's off the hook (at least in this life). His parents did him a disservice by covering for him, and they deserted poor JonBenet altogether.

 

[PositiveLight]

Nurses and doctors make the worst patients. Too much knowledge to ever trust in doctors themselves.

So true! Ugh!&#128542;

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