Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

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I also believe that the reason DP didn't delve into the scatological behavior was because it would point to very big issues in BR. It was also probably embarrassing. The scatological behavior is not accidental it is intention behavior. That wouldn't go in favor of an IDI theory. Which the Ramsey's have always pushed. That behavior would point to strong negative feelings between the two children in that household. DP showed us that he was IDI. He also shared their same attorney Lin Wood. Which he fails to tell the audience. Which imho is VERY IMPORTANT to the interview and shows bias. JMOO
 
I took the findings to be the play pants were a skid mark in JonBenets. The pj pants had fecal material ( maybe more than a smear and they were too big for JonBenet) and the grapefruit sized amount if feces that the housekeeper found was just to give an amount. Not that it was shaped like it. As in someone squatted and took a dump then covered it with the sheets to shock JonBenet. The fecal matter on the candy box was fecal matter. The CSI I doubt seriously would state that if they didn't know for sure if it was or not. It probably smelled. I am sure too that they did DNA- on the fecal matter to discern whose it was. That may be part of the evidence not known to us. But Kolar who had his hands on all the evidence probably new this part that we the readers don't. Let's give some credit to those who are trained in their field. If the CSI said it was fecal material, it was. It makes sense if you think about it. BR pops a squat to poo a little then uses it to wipe on her box of candy. Leaves his pants on the ground in her room. I would venture to guess that he did it after they opened gifts that morning. He was probably mad he didnt get a bike too. This is how I see it occurring and it's just my opinion. But the least we can do is give some credit to the CSI team and Kolar for knowing what they were looking at. That the proper tests probably were done to figure out who it belonged to. Because it is a major crime scene and the perp was Unknown at the time and it would be VERY important to do this testing. Remember we haven't seen all the evidence. If the pj pants, play pants, and box of candy are still in evidence it can be retested to prove it if it wasn't done already. But I would think that it was already tested. JMOO. BR showed signs of scatological behavior before her death. More than one housekeeper said so. JonBenet had issues cleaning herself. So skid marks wouldn't be a surprise to me. It was in most of her panties too. Stains from previous bad wiping. Or she was holding it to the last second before finally going to potty like a lot of kids do. They don't want to stop playing to go poop. That is common. What BR displayed was not common. JMOO

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I sincerely hope the fecal matter was tested. I agree with your premise, if there was enough poo to be "smeared" then it was not accidentally transferred from poor wiping. Good point about how she didn't like to wipe herself too, making the JBDI (the smearing) even less likely.

I have a vague memory of Kolar saying that it was not tested, unfortunately. I have my book with me at work (shh!! Lol) so I will look.
If anyone knows off the top of their head please chime in!!! It may have been in an interview or something.


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I sincerely hope the fecal matter was tested. I agree with your premise, if there was enough poo to be "smeared" then it was not accidentally transferred from poor wiping. Good point about how she didn't like to wipe herself too, making the JBDI (the smearing) even less likely.

I have a vague memory of Kolar saying that it was not tested, unfortunately. I have my book with me at work (shh!! Lol) so I will look.
If anyone knows off the top of their head please chime in!!! It may have been in an interview or something.


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Try looking around pages 367- 370. I found mention that this was an area the behavior was discussed.
 
funny clip from the movie Rat Race regarding prairie dogging. What a lot of kids do when they hold their poop for too long. I love this movie btw. It's hilarious.
[video=youtube;YNxtPl7SaDQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNxtPl7SaDQ[/video]
 
I sincerely hope the fecal matter was tested. I agree with your premise, if there was enough poo to be "smeared" then it was not accidentally transferred from poor wiping. Good point about how she didn't like to wipe herself too, making the JBDI (the smearing) even less likely.

I have a vague memory of Kolar saying that it was not tested, unfortunately. I have my book with me at work (shh!! Lol) so I will look.
If anyone knows off the top of their head please chime in!!! It may have been in an interview or something.


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It was not tested - I don't even know if it was collected. It was simply noted.
 
I sincerely hope the fecal matter was tested. I agree with your premise, if there was enough poo to be "smeared" then it was not accidentally transferred from poor wiping. Good point about how she didn't like to wipe herself too, making the JBDI (the smearing) even less likely.

I have a vague memory of Kolar saying that it was not tested, unfortunately. I have my book with me at work (shh!! Lol) so I will look.
If anyone knows off the top of their head please chime in!!! It may have been in an interview or something.


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Hopefully if it wasn't tested, then with all the DNA testing now available, and if the items are still in the evidence lock up, then they SHOULD test it and see what the results are. If this is done now and wasn't back when the crime occurred, then this could be "new" evidence. I think they do need to go back through all the evidence from day one and re-test everything with the new technology. It would be a shame if they didn't do this. JonBenet deserves some type of justice, be it in court or public opinion. IMHO I would think anyone who has a relationship with BR or JR should know if they are truly safe or not. IF BR did this and it was a one time occurrence, then no worries about future crimes. BUT who can promise this? Who can say FOR SURE it couldn't be repeated. If it WAS repeated, then the 20 years the LE have had to bring this to light would open up a huge can of worms and lawsuits. It is in everyone's best interest to know the truth whether criminal charges are possible or not. Even for BR. He needs to know if he is at risk for repeating this behavior. If he is he needs help to hopefully resolve or treat the issue. Ignoring it for 20 years isn't doing him any good. JMOO of course BUT. Doesn't there need to be an ending to JonBenet's story and death? Isn't JonBenet the true victim in this case? Isn't it only fair that JonBenet's voice should be heard even from the grave with new testing of evidence and new eyes on the case? JonBenet deserves that at the very least. It is up to us as citizens to demand it. The family sure as heck isn't interested in solving the case. So my question is this: What can we do as caring citizens to push for justice for JonBenet? Any ideas? I would be down for flooding the DA with letters demanding the case be solved or looked into again and the public be made aware if the family was in fact involved. Something has to be done. This doesn't need to remain silent for another 20 years after all the media stops discussing it after the anniversary and this is what I'm afraid will happen. They already have the family members DNA and info. They can do the rest of the testing with the evidence they have in play. There is no reason this shouldn't be solved and given a proper ending no matter how ugly it is. The truth is usually not pretty regardless when it comes to these crimes. JMOO take it for what it's worth. But if it was my child that was so brutally murdered in my home, then I would basically move next door to the police station and be there every day asking what is being done. They would see my face until the crime was solved. But that's just me.
 
Very interesting tidbits from B's child interviews.. Not sure if these were posted before....

https://drlillianglassbodylanguageb...iles-in-both-when-discussing-mothers-anguish/

She takes a beating in the comment section which is so obviously people who don't know much about the case. I think she is dead on with her analyzing. I see exactly what she sees and it doesn't take an expert to know there is something seriously wrong with this man child.
Let me propose this what if scenario:
What if BR had done this interview with Dr. Phil and he had not been smiling like a jacka$$ eating briers? What if he had a serious face and was actually discussing this case with open honesty and concern for JonBenet? What if he had been very open and not said answers like "MAYBEEE?" with a huge grin? What if he actually was helpful with the answers and applied some insider info that wasn't brought to the MSM from his view? Things he thought would be very important in proving it wasn't him or his family? What if he had actually seemed to take the interview seriously? Would we still be concerned about the potential for a possible repeat crime? I personally AM concerned it will be repeated when the situation arises that he can't handle properly. Maybe this is his reason for staying isolated.
But my main question to everyone is IF he had acted like every other person interviewed that lost a loved one in a brutal murder, would we still be questioning his possible involvement?
IMHO he was evasive and deceptive in his answers to questions when he was younger and still now. Just as his parents are. I'm not a professional trained in these things and it's plain to me. Very obvious too.
I'm interested to what others think in regards to this possible idea or well question if you may.
 
Very interesting tidbits from B's child interviews.. Not sure if these were posted before....

https://drlillianglassbodylanguageb...iles-in-both-when-discussing-mothers-anguish/

thanks M_S for the link. The LGlass observations are interesting. In another recent LG analysis, I seem to recall her saying that BR's body language (when he was interviewed as a child) when describing his own theory of JB being carried quietly down to the basement that fateful night LG assumed that BR's tilting shoulders mimicked someone tip-toeing down stairs while carrying something/someone. I immediately disagreed with her observation because in my strong opinion the rocking/shoulder tilting was WAY TOO SIMILAR to JR's body language habit when he wants to make a point about something. Next time a sleuther watches any of the old footage of JR interviews, look for his rockin shoulders and you will clearly see it. JMHO
 
She takes a beating in the comment section which is so obviously people who don't know much about the case. I think she is dead on with her analyzing. I see exactly what she sees and it doesn't take an expert to know there is something seriously wrong with this man child.
Let me propose this what if scenario:
What if BR had done this interview with Dr. Phil and he had not been smiling like a jacka$$ eating briers? What if he had a serious face and was actually discussing this case with open honesty and concern for JonBenet? What if he had been very open and not said answers like "MAYBEEE?" with a huge grin? What if he actually was helpful with the answers and applied some insider info that wasn't brought to the MSM from his view? Things he thought would be very important in proving it wasn't him or his family? What if he had actually seemed to take the interview seriously? Would we still be concerned about the potential for a possible repeat crime? I personally AM concerned it will be repeated when the situation arises that he can't handle properly. Maybe this is his reason for staying isolated.
But my main question to everyone is IF he had acted like every other person interviewed that lost a loved one in a brutal murder, would we still be questioning his possible involvement?
IMHO he was evasive and deceptive in his answers to questions when he was younger and still now. Just as his parents are. I'm not a professional trained in these things and it's plain to me. Very obvious too.
I'm interested to what others think in regards to this possible idea or well question if you may.

PositiveLight,
If my BDI is correct then I reckon BR will commit another crime, he might have done so already, hence the smiles and maybe, for him its just a game, an extension of his childhood behavior.

I hope I am wrong but if that's what he is alleged to have done at age 9, well whats he capable of now?

.
 
Hopefully if it wasn't tested, then with all the DNA testing now available, and if the items are still in the evidence lock up, then they SHOULD test it and see what the results are. If this is done now and wasn't back when the crime occurred, then this could be "new" evidence. I think they do need to go back through all the evidence from day one and re-test everything with the new technology. It would be a shame if they didn't do this. JonBenet deserves some type of justice, be it in court or public opinion. IMHO I would think anyone who has a relationship with BR or JR should know if they are truly safe or not. IF BR did this and it was a one time occurrence, then no worries about future crimes. BUT who can promise this? Who can say FOR SURE it couldn't be repeated. If it WAS repeated, then the 20 years the LE have had to bring this to light would open up a huge can of worms and lawsuits. It is in everyone's best interest to know the truth whether criminal charges are possible or not. Even for BR. He needs to know if he is at risk for repeating this behavior. If he is he needs help to hopefully resolve or treat the issue. Ignoring it for 20 years isn't doing him any good. JMOO of course BUT. Doesn't there need to be an ending to JonBenet's story and death? Isn't JonBenet the true victim in this case? Isn't it only fair that JonBenet's voice should be heard even from the grave with new testing of evidence and new eyes on the case? JonBenet deserves that at the very least. It is up to us as citizens to demand it. The family sure as heck isn't interested in solving the case. So my question is this: What can we do as caring citizens to push for justice for JonBenet? Any ideas? I would be down for flooding the DA with letters demanding the case be solved or looked into again and the public be made aware if the family was in fact involved. Something has to be done. This doesn't need to remain silent for another 20 years after all the media stops discussing it after the anniversary and this is what I'm afraid will happen. They already have the family members DNA and info. They can do the rest of the testing with the evidence they have in play. There is no reason this shouldn't be solved and given a proper ending no matter how ugly it is. The truth is usually not pretty regardless when it comes to these crimes. JMOO take it for what it's worth. But if it was my child that was so brutally murdered in my home, then I would basically move next door to the police station and be there every day asking what is being done. They would see my face until the crime was solved. But that's just me.

Yes!!!!! I 100% agree that we should try and get the new evidence tested. There are enough of us sleuths to maybe get some serious attention. Maybe we can even crowd fund the effort to get the evidence tested, I'm sure there are millions in America and around the world who would love to see this case solved. Even if everyone only donated a dollar we could go far. I bet some who have made money on this case (CBS etc.) might be willing to put up more than a dollar.

I am definitely willing to work towards this. We should try and make a game plan. Maybe Tricia will let us start a thread about that.


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PositiveLight,
If my BDI is correct then I reckon BR will commit another crime, he might have done so already, hence the smiles and maybe, for him its just a game, an extension of his childhood behavior.

I hope I am wrong but if that's what he is alleged to have done at age 9, well whats he capable of now?

.
That's exactly what frightens me. What will everyone who swears a IDI say when he possibly repeats the behavior/crime? He possibly did this crime to wipe out his competition or just had the need to do it. I'm like you, if my theory is close to being the truth, which for the main part is he did this with intent to kill her and didn't regret it at all, then he may still have that drive to do it. I HOPE NOT. But.... I'm just saying if it happens again... both of the DA's should be held liable and sued to hell and back.
 
Yes!!!!! I 100% agree that we should try and get the new evidence tested. There are enough of us sleuths to maybe get some serious attention. Maybe we can even crowd fund the effort to get the evidence tested, I'm sure there are millions in America and around the world who would love to see this case solved. Even if everyone only donated a dollar we could go far. I bet some who have made money on this case (CBS etc.) might be willing to put up more than a dollar.

I am definitely willing to work towards this. We should try and make a game plan. Maybe Tricia will let us start a thread about that.


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YES! I'm down for it. It's time people stand up for those without voices.
 
I don't believe that BR killed JB intentionally per say. I think that something triggered a bout of excessive (childish) rage and he lashed out at her so fiercely that he cracked her skull. I believe that he was jealous of the attention that she got. She had became Patsy's pet project, her living doll and he hated that people fawned over her. He had a lot of pent up frustration toward her.

I can't understand why the ligature/garrote was used. It doesn't make sense to me. If he knew that he had seriously or fatally injured her from hitting her head, then why would he then strangle her to death? I also have problems seeing it as a part of the 'staging', as JB was still (very faintly) alive when she was garroted. Maybe BR didn't realize that she was slowly dying from a head injury and decided to strangle her to finish it off? At this point, I think I'm just thinking out loud. I just can't pinpoint the reasoning behind it.
 
I don't believe that BR killed JB intentionally per say. I think that something triggered a bout of excessive (childish) rage and he lashed out at her so fiercely that he cracked her skull. I believe that he was jealous of the attention that she got. She had became Patsy's pet project, her living doll and he hated that people fawned over her. He had a lot of pent up frustration toward her.

I can't understand why the ligature/garrote was used. It doesn't make sense to me. If he knew that he had seriously or fatally injured her from hitting her head, then why would he then strangle her to death? I also have problems seeing it as a part of the 'staging', as JB was still (very faintly) alive when she was garroted. Maybe BR didn't realize that she was slowly dying from a head injury and decided to strangle her to finish it off? At this point, I think I'm just thinking out loud. I just can't pinpoint the reasoning behind it.
I think if BR was indeed the one to give the final ligature strangulation, it may have been out of fear. It's quite possible that the head wound caused seizures and loud death rattles and he freaked and applied the ligature to stop her from seizing or making loud noises. Just a thought maybe.

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I don't believe that BR killed JB intentionally per say. I think that something triggered a bout of excessive (childish) rage and he lashed out at her so fiercely that he cracked her skull. I believe that he was jealous of the attention that she got. She had became Patsy's pet project, her living doll and he hated that people fawned over her. He had a lot of pent up frustration toward her.

I can't understand why the ligature/garrote was used. It doesn't make sense to me. If he knew that he had seriously or fatally injured her from hitting her head, then why would he then strangle her to death? I also have problems seeing it as a part of the 'staging', as JB was still (very faintly) alive when she was garroted. Maybe BR didn't realize that she was slowly dying from a head injury and decided to strangle her to finish it off? At this point, I think I'm just thinking out loud. I just can't pinpoint the reasoning behind it.
It's difficult to imagine anyone strangling her with that cord, but somebody did. I think BDI - maybe because he was afraid she would wake up and tattle on him after he had hit her in the head so hard, maybe because he was angry, maybe because he was/is demented, or maybe because he wanted her dead. It doesn't make any sense to me that it would be a part of staging. If a parent had found JB wounded, I'd think they would have called 911.
 
I don't believe that BR killed JB intentionally per say. I think that something triggered a bout of excessive (childish) rage and he lashed out at her so fiercely that he cracked her skull. I believe that he was jealous of the attention that she got. She had became Patsy's pet project, her living doll and he hated that people fawned over her. He had a lot of pent up frustration toward her.

I can't understand why the ligature/garrote was used. It doesn't make sense to me. If he knew that he had seriously or fatally injured her from hitting her head, then why would he then strangle her to death? I also have problems seeing it as a part of the 'staging', as JB was still (very faintly) alive when she was garroted. Maybe BR didn't realize that she was slowly dying from a head injury and decided to strangle her to finish it off? At this point, I think I'm just thinking out loud. I just can't pinpoint the reasoning behind it.

BBM

Perhaps the Ramseys did not know the coroner would perform an autopsy? The coroner missed the grave head wound himself during his first examination at the scene. As we know the head blow was discovered later during the autopsy. The ligature/ garrote was to "tell the story" ad hoc and to divert from the truth.

-Nin
 
Because the smearing of feces on the wall was documented and the sizes-too-big PJs had feces in them. I say this with respect but I'm surprised you're pointing the finger at JB. From what we know about Burke he is the one most likely to exhibit symptoms of scatolia.
I'm not pointing the finger at anyone....I've been doing the exact opposite.

Both kids were living in dysfunction junction and clearly had some issues yet one of them is being blamed for it all as if a trail of bread crumbs leads directly to him. There were two children living in that house and since none of this was tested, that means there are two possibilities.


I have diagnosed BR with nothing. I'm simply going on the reports of several people in the Rs life. Who by the way did say he was smearing feces on bathroom walls. Your right it could have been JBRs fecal ball, but no one has said she played with hers. All reports were on BRs smearing. I dont think he was on the spectrum, I think he was a victim as a child. For what its worth, I do have experience with a child who was abused and having jealousy and abandonment issues. I see a lot of BR as a boy in my 6 year old son (adopted, mine none the less)

I have never stated one way or another what DI I am. For the record I'm RDI, all three of them have something to do with what happened that night and the hindrance of justice to this day.

On Phils show, my opinion of BR is based on what I saw and heard for myself. I have eyes and intuition that have served (ME) well over the years. I stay true to myself and not what some other unknown person thinks I should feel or believe. But hey, thats the great thing about these forums and the posters in them, diversity of opinion.

Nobody here knows if they are right or wrong until we have a confession or a conviction. Until then, its all personal opinion and like butt holes we all have one.
You don't have to specifically state one way or another. Anyone blaming Burke to the extent he is saving and sculpting poop and then throwing it like a monkey is clearly BDI. Amazing that an old feces smear on a wall and some in a pair of PJs can somehow create such an elaborate fantasy. While there's certainly nothing wrong with speculation as we all do it on this case, I'm in the now minority that likes to see the speculation grounded in something resembling reality.

All your posts are about discussing how "disturbed" Burke is so no need for any pretense about not diagnosing him. You've got him throwing his poop around the house like a monkey and joyfully laughing about her murder. Your descriptions and scenarios regarding Burke are speaking of someone who had a free fall descent into madness. LIke many others, I have read the books, watched the docs, etc. and I have never seen anyone involved in the case come anywhere near describing Burke to such a magnitude.

Yes....we all have buttholes.


I certainly agree with you on one thing....Burke was a victim.


Seems like its open season on BR.
Indeed.

IMO it does a huge disservice to the case. BDI is nothing new obviously. Long time members like you and otg(and others) have had this position for years and with loads of research and well thought out points, attempt to make a realistic case for it. What is new is him being morphed into this stark raving mad lunatic who flings poop, bludgeons over pineapple, and laughs maniacally about it. This train of thought did not exist before the CBS doc aired. If that's what people took from it, then it was even worse than I initially thought.

1. A pair of JonBenet's feces soiled pants were lying on her bathroom floor, origin unexplained.

2. The grapefruit size piece of feces was observed in JonBenet's bed.

3. AFAIK the larger sized pair of pants lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor did not contain feces, i.e. fact check this!

4. Feces were smeared on JonBenet's candy box.

5. BR smeared a bathroom wall with feces as a younger child.

6. Both BR and JonBenet had toileting issues relating to feces.

6. is likely the take away item, or generalization to be assumed.

.
Yeah and this goes back to both children having some major problems in this department and a lengthy history of it. Even though we have no way of knowing who was responsible for each of those incidents, it is all being thrown in Burke's direction.


how does Spitz think it all started down at the breakfast bar?

.
That's a very good question and one I'd like to see an answer to. That whole "the manure hit the fan in the breakfast bar" scenario has never had an adequate explanation.
 
PositiveLight,
If my BDI is correct then I reckon BR will commit another crime, he might have done so already, hence the smiles and maybe, for him its just a game, an extension of his childhood behavior.

I hope I am wrong but if that's what he is alleged to have done at age 9, well whats he capable of now?

.
UK...

The past 20 years would seem to indicate that he's not capable of very much.
 
I'm not pointing the finger at anyone....I've been doing the exact opposite.

Both kids were living in dysfunction junction and clearly had some issues yet one of them is being blamed for it all as if a trail of bread crumbs leads directly to him. There were two children living in that house and since none of this was tested, that means there are two possibilities.


You don't have to specifically state one way or another. Anyone blaming Burke to the extent he is saving and sculpting poop and then throwing it like a monkey is clearly BDI. Amazing that an old feces smear on a wall and some in a pair of PJs can somehow create such an elaborate fantasy. While there's certainly nothing wrong with speculation as we all do it on this case, I'm in the now minority that likes to see the speculation grounded in something resembling reality.

All your posts are about discussing how "disturbed" Burke is so no need for any pretense about not diagnosing him. You've got him throwing his poop around the house like a monkey and joyfully laughing about her murder. Your descriptions and scenarios regarding Burke are speaking of someone who had a free fall descent into madness. LIke many others, I have read the books, watched the docs, etc. and I have never seen anyone involved in the case come anywhere near describing Burke to such a magnitude.

Yes....we all have buttholes.


I certainly agree with you on one thing....Burke was a victim.


Indeed.

IMO it does a huge disservice to the case. BDI is nothing new obviously. Long time members like you and otg(and others) have had this position for years and with loads of research and well thought out points, attempt to make a realistic case for it. What is new is him being morphed into this stark raving mad lunatic who flings poop, bludgeons over pineapple, and laughs maniacally about it. This train of thought did not exist before the CBS doc aired. If that's what people took from it, then it was even worse than I initially thought.

Yeah and this goes back to both children having some major problems in this department and a lengthy history of it. Even though we have no way of knowing who was responsible for each of those incidents, it is all being thrown in Burke's direction.


That's a very good question and one I'd like to see an answer to. That whole "the manure hit the fan in the breakfast bar" scenario has never had an adequate explanation.
I'm just curious. Are you basically saying anyone new to the forums can't actually add anything to the discussion? That we can't also come to conclusions or think outside the box? I don't think she believed ever said BR was slinging poop everywhere like a monkey. Smearing and slinging are two different things. But hey if no one else's ideas are welcome I get it. [emoji87]

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