Dr. Teresa Sievers Trial Discussion - Mark Sievers and Jimmy Rodgers

[Bobbywoo]

I think that if I was on the jury I wouldn't be able to go home tonight and not research this case. Especially if it was a DP case. I wonder how many of the jurors will stick to the rules, and if not, be honest about it. My husband, not familiar with this case, not living in FL at that time, and us not dating at that time, likes to play devil's advocate with me. He has some good points, and I can see where someone coming from the outside might think there is reasonable doubt. But I, having followed for 4 years, feel this SHOULD be a slam dunk. Really, with him going but, but, but all the time I honestly think this could go either way. unless the jury goes home and pulls a Bobbywoo and researches. And yes, I understand this is dishonest and cheating.

So anyway, my point is that I think they should have started deliberation and sequestered them because putting someone to death is a major decision that could weight on you for the rest of your life and I might not be able to do it if I hadn't been following this case from the get go. What do you guys think? If you walked into this a week ago without knowing all we know, would you be able to say "kill him"? Be honest. If you were going ONLY on what was put forward this past week? As sure as the sun rises I know he is guilty, but.... if I forget everything I've heard in the last 4 years and my instincts I would not be 100% positive. I would be 95% positive but that may not be enough in my mind to put someone to death. Thought?

 

[beach]

Beach on the JRR board you wrote that it was judges decision about sequestering. Earlier today it seemed when defense wanted sequestration, he was going to go along with it, as he said he'd talk to them about it after the recess. He mentioned it usually isn't done til deliberations of sentence... but seemed to be leaning to doing it if the defense wanted it. I missed about an hour after lunch, was it discussed or just dropped?

They didn't bring it back up, at least not that I heard. I think what they will do is let them deliberate tomorrow and if they don't reach a verdict, probably sequester. He doesn't have to do that either. I know he will if there is a guilty verdict on Murder 1st degree during the sentencing phase.

 

[Kakidoll]

Going only by trial and not all i know from the past 4 years. I'd convict but would go life, not death. I actually think life is a harder sentence these days, it takes TOO long for the death penalty and they get MORE rights, it seems, with a death sentence. Better lawyers, groups that want to help... more notoriety. Put em in genpop and let the other killers take care of him.

 

[beach]

Maybe he thinks phase one will one need tomorrow. I’m not sure.

You mean maybe thinks a verdict may be reached tomorrow?

 

[Bobbywoo]

Going only by trial and not all i know from the past 4 years. I'd convict but would go life, not death. I actually think life is a harder sentence these days, it takes TOO long for the death penalty and they get MORE rights, it seems, with a death sentence. Better lawyers, groups that want to help... more notoriety. Put em in genpop and let the other killers take care of him.

I love that you gave me your thoughts on this! I've only served on one jury and it was a DUI case with I non life threatening crash. I voted not guilty because there were so many "but what if this happened"??? So many scenarios and variations of what MAY have actually happened. What if he drank AFTER the crash? So much time had passed and they lost sight of the accused before the cops arrived. I was pretty sure he was guilty but I couldn't say 100%. Not enough to ruin his life for a bit. I'm pro taking the bad guys off the street, and very pro capital punishment BUT it's always easier when you aren't the one making that decision. IMO we should expect a guilty verdict but be prepared for something less. We know what we know, but they don't know everything we know. Get what I mean. The pessimist in me is on full display, lol.

 

[TTF14]

So anyway, my point is that I think they should have started deliberation and sequestered them because putting someone to death is a major decision that could weight on you for the rest of your life and I might not be able to do it if I hadn't been following this case from the get go. What do you guys think? If you walked into this a week ago without knowing all we know, would you be able to say "kill him"? Be honest. If you were going ONLY on what was put forward this past week? As sure as the sun rises I know he is guilty, but.... if I forget everything I've heard in the last 4 years and my instincts I would not be 100% positive. I would be 95% positive but that may not be enough in my mind to put someone to death. Thought?

I'd vote guilty and life without parole. Same as just happened in the Dan Markel case with Sigfredo Garcia.

 

[mom2chloe]

It is weird. What's also weird to me is that this woman didn't refuse the day at the beach with MS. Being one of TS's good friends, shouldn't she have insisted MS spend time with his family? Or maybe not even burdened him with this issue that pulled him away from his family? Sorry for being all judgy, judgy.

For all we know Mark was gaslighting her and telling her how he suspected her husband was having an affair with Teresa blah blah blah. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least. How else do you explain a day at the beach after your wife is murdered? MOO
Nothing Mark does will ever surprise me. I hope he gets everything he has coming and more!

 

[MsArk]

Going only by trial and not all i know from the past 4 years. I'd convict but would go life, not death. I actually think life is a harder sentence these days, it takes TOO long for the death penalty and they get MORE rights, it seems, with a death sentence. Better lawyers, groups that want to help... more notoriety. Put em in genpop and let the other killers take care of him.

I think it will guilty with life as well. “From my mouth to g*d’s ears!”

 

[Bobbywoo]

For all we know Mark was gaslighting her and telling her how he suspected her husband was having an affair with Teresa blah blah blah. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least. How else do you explain a day at the beach after your wife is murdered? MOO
Nothing Mark does will ever surprise me. I hope he gets everything he has coming and more!

That scenario is much better than my "I know your wife was murdered and your children are heartbroken because they lost their mother and their best friend......but what about MEEEEEE!" She could have sent him back to his family after one hour, two hours, three hours, but no. She had a husband to hold her hand through all this but she chose to take a father away from his children to whine a bit. She could have stopped it at any time but she made a conscious decision to spend the day with him all to herself. I respect your opinion to place the blame completely on him but I see this from a different point of view I suppose. She was going to study to be a lawyer so I'm guessing she wasn't a weak, easily manipulated person. IMO she was self absorbed and not a true friend.

 

[Bobbywoo]

I think it will guilty with life as well. “From my mouth to g*d’s ears!”

Fingers crossed on my end! I don't want to be heartbroken with a not guilty verdict.

 

[beach]

Random thoughts -

First, if able, please listen to the jury instructions as they are read tomorrow. It will sound like a lot of legalese to most people and can feel boring BUT, remember the jury is hearing the same thing. There is a TON of work that goes into writing these. Both the State & Defense submitted requests. I noticed many, actually most, were the same textbook instructions. Anyway, they are important as to what constitutes elements of each crime charged and also, included lesser offenses that may be considered. Once you get through listening to those, you may not be surprised if it takes longer than a few hours to reach a verdict There are 3 main charges they have to consider and will have to deliberate regarding each one. (So actually 3 separate deliberations). In short, Law is complex.

Also, if we have someone who is in the legal profession in FL, I am curious about something - in my state, after jury instructions and being charged, rarely, if ever, are questions answered re. clarification of the law. For example, a very common request is a legal definition of "reasonable doubt". Judges in my state will tell them they have to rely on their memory of the original jury instructions. I believe some states are a bit looser.

 

[mom2chloe]

That scenario is much better than my "I know your wife was murdered and your children are heartbroken because they lost their mother and their best friend......but what about MEEEEEE!" She could have sent him back to his family after one hour, two hours, three hours, but no. She had a husband to hold her hand through all this but she chose to take a father away from his children to whine a bit. She could have stopped it at any time but she made a conscious decision to spend the day with him all to herself. I respect your opinion to place the blame completely on him but I see this from a different point of view I suppose. She was going to study to be a lawyer so I'm guessing she wasn't a weak, easily manipulated person. IMO she was self absorbed and not a true friend.

Or maybe she was putting her legal skills to use and gathering info that might help to convict him and the other two stooges! Just a thought but I completely understand your point as well!

 

[Oregonmama]

I wanted death and still hope for that but I would be happy to see JR and Mark get life. I really want to hear guilty from the jury for Mark. He has hurt so many ppl and I'm sure he will not be done hurting ppl from behind bars but at least he will be in prison. My dream would be for him to pay every single penny back that the State had to pay for his lawyers but that wont happen.

 

[Oregonmama]

Random thoughts -

First, if able, please listen to the jury instructions as they are read tomorrow. It will sound like a lot of legalese to most people and can feel boring BUT, remember the jury is hearing the same thing. There is a TON of work that goes into writing these. Both the State & Defense submitted requests. I noticed many, actually most, were the same textbook instructions. Anyway, they are important as to what constitutes elements of each crime charged and also, included lesser offenses that may be considered. Once you get through listening to those, you may not be surprised if it takes longer than a few hours to reach a verdict There are 3 main charges they have to consider and will have to deliberate regarding each one. (So actually 3 separate deliberations). In short, Law is complex.

Also, if we have someone who is in the legal profession in FL, I am curious about something - in my state, after jury instructions and being charged, rarely, if ever, are questions answered re. clarification of the law. For example, a very common request is a legal definition of "reasonable doubt". Judges in my state will tell them they have to rely on their memory of the original jury instructions. I believe some states are a bit looser.

In Oregon, if a jury requests that, everyone gets called backed in the courtroom and the judge will read the legal definition in front of everyone.

 

[Bobbywoo]

Random thoughts -

First, if able, please listen to the jury instructions as they are read tomorrow. It will sound like a lot of legalese to most people and can feel boring BUT, remember the jury is hearing the same thing. There is a TON of work that goes into writing these. Both the State & Defense submitted requests. I noticed many, actually most, were the same textbook instructions. Anyway, they are important as to what constitutes elements of each crime charged and also, included lesser offenses that may be considered. Once you get through listening to those, you may not be surprised if it takes longer than a few hours to reach a verdict There are 3 main charges they have to consider and will have to deliberate regarding each one. (So actually 3 separate deliberations). In short, Law is complex.

Also, if we have someone who is in the legal profession in FL, I am curious about something - in my state, after jury instructions and being charged, rarely, if ever, are questions answered re. clarification of the law. For example, a very common request is a legal definition of "reasonable doubt". Judges in my state will tell them they have to rely on their memory of the original jury instructions. I believe some states are a bit looser.

I'm no expert, I've only served once and it was approx 15 years ago. We sent a question out to the judge and told were had to rely on the previous information given to us during trial. I don't recall if it was because it was a silly question or because it was a law. So long ago. But I do remember that we as a jury were a bit perplexed that the court refused to give us more guidance that we were unsure about.

 

[Bobbywoo]

I wanted death and still hope for that but I would be happy to see JR and Mark get life. I really want to hear guilty from the jury for Mark. He has hurt so many ppl and I'm sure he will not be done hurting ppl from behind bars but at least he will be in prison. My dream would be for him to pay every single penny back that the State had to pay for his lawyers but that wont happen.

He is toxic. I don't think there will be any reasonable doubt in his case. If by some small miracle he makes it back into free society he will find another to prey on. He may not take the chance of having them murdered but IMO he will absolutely drain them for everything they have.

 

[Bobbywoo]

I'm no expert, I've only served once and it was approx 15 years ago. We sent a question out to the judge and told were had to rely on the previous information given to us during trial. I don't recall if it was because it was a silly question or because it was a law. So long ago. But I do remember that we as a jury were a bit perplexed that the court refused to give us more guidance that we were unsure about.

Sorry about my typos. Yikes!

 

[beach]

Another random thought - lol

I try not to read too much into length of deliberations. Especially true of a case with such incredibly high stakes. Each jury is unique. You've got 12 people with 12 very different personalities, habits, quirks, etc... Some may want to be very methodical and recreate the whole crime; someone else may feel confident knowing exactly how they are going to vote in the end; another person may know how they feel but be very emotional and keep questioning themselves. It is an extremely unique dynamic. Some juries mesh like a family, others there is a lot of conflict within. You never know. Heck, they don't even know yet. They will have a good idea tomorrow though.

That said, if it is a fairly quick verdict - even one coming tomorrow or early Wednesday - I think that favors the prosecution. Doesn't mean they won't get convictions after a week+, just that I believe a quick one favors the State.

 

[Bobbywoo]

Or maybe she was putting her legal skills to use and gathering info that might help to convict him and the other two stooges! Just a thought but I completely understand your point as well!

I hope you're right. I can't imagine spending so much time with that absolute creep. And I can't imagine spending 5 hours on a FL beach. During the day it's hot as hell and when the sun goes down those little biting gnats come out. Did they think this out enough to bring spf and bug spray? Not the spf, he was sunburned. Apparently his charms were enough to make a gal forget all that. Yuck.

 

[Oregonmama]

@beach... Do you think the jury selection will be tougher for Mark's trial? I can see issues all around in his trial.