Dr. Teresa Sievers Trial Discussion - Mark Sievers and Jimmy Rodgers

[beach]

Fitz may have made some headway in showing maybe Rodgers didn’t know why he was going to FL but none in disproving his participation once he arrived. IMO

He stole TWO pair of blue coveralls from Doe Run and packed them for the trip to FL. They weren't for sunning on the beach. He knew.

The defense will never be able to explain that away.

 

[Gardenista]

That may be one reason defense attorneys wanted to delay the Judges ruling until Monday. I bet JR was ready to say he would take the stand. His attorneys may have needed the week end to talk him out of taking the stand and maybe try to take a plea deal....2 days to change his mind. I think he is stubborn, bull headed like Arias. He will do what he wants to. Monday is not to far away.

I have a question.....where can I find Thursday’s taped trial? I was trying to watch discreetly, the trial at my friends store....but it got the better of me and I said out loud...I hope the jury did not see that. Everyone looked at me and so I had to explain. What I saw was in the public seating, behind the lawyers, was a dark haired lady, she turned to someone behind her and used the motion with her index finger pointed at her temple looking back and forth at the person behind her and then the person testifying (think is was CW) the motion was “he is crazy”...and appeared to me she slightly shook her head.

I was shocked she would do this in the court room, with a jury present...well maybe I should not be shocked if I am correct.

Anyway, I want to rewatch it to make sure I am correct and figure out who the lady was.
Thanks

Here is the whole playlist for the trial.

 

[MsArk]

Yes.

He definitely will have “earned his keep” as they say!

 

[ScotAng]

So THAT’S where the dog park is—thnx, Arachne! I kept thinking it might be across from Jarvis but never saw when driving all thru there on Terry—lots of traffic during the day. Yeah, they had the cadets all out searching that area that week.
AND changes... when in Estero during Christmas 2015, I drove down to Jarvis for the first time. Did so again in 2016. 2017 I drove down Terry only & noticed a sign as I passed by the Jarvis entrance—stated something like Private Drive or No Thru Traffic, whatever. I figured residents there had that put there as too many curious people were driving thru there as I did those 2 yrs prior.

I tried multi-quoting you and @Arachne 1 ' posts, not sure what I'm doing wrong.

You both give good insight! I always imagined the park was across from Jarvis. For some reason I pictured it diagonally across and up the street from the house. Wondering where on earth I got that from? But .... wasn't there a woman who saw the girls with Mark and/or Teresaa going to a park just up the street? Not that it has anything to do with the murders, I just always wondered where that park was.

 

[Scalex]

Playing devil’s advocate here.

To me, the coveralls aren’t important for the conspiracy part. I think coming to rob a house for money would be a great reason to suit up and not leave fingerprints and dna.

I also don't think a blue fiber is very telling when they are the same blue collar uniforms that mechanics, janitors, and dishwasher repair men wear. So not unique to only JRR.

What I have a hard time believing is that JRR only had one pair of coveralls for himself, and they found them, and they didn’t find any blood or dna on them, but they were in good enough condition to retrieve a hair belonging to JRR.

Personally I think the evidence of the coveralls only helped the defense’s argument against CWW. They had me hating CWW, so I’m interested to see how the jury feels.

I really wish we could listen to JRR’s version of what happened. We have heard so many stories and I’m thinking none are the whole truth.

 

[Deleted member 159541]

Playing devil’s advocate here.

To me, the coveralls aren’t important for the conspiracy part. I think coming to rob a house for money would be a great reason to suit up and not leave fingerprints and dna.

I also don't think a blue fiber is very telling when they are the same blue collar uniforms that mechanics, janitors, and dishwasher repair men wear. So not unique to only JRR.

What I have a hard time believing is that JRR only had one pair of coveralls for himself, and they found them, and they didn’t find any blood or dna on them, but they were in good enough condition to retrieve a hair belonging to JRR.

Personally I think the evidence of the coveralls only helped the defense’s argument against CWW. They had me hating CWW, so I’m interested to see how the jury feels.

I really wish we could listen to JRR’s version of what happened. We have heard so many stories and I’m thinking none are the whole truth.

The coveralls are an absolute indication of prior knowledge and intent. As is the duct tape.

Where is the evidence - besides a defense attorney's best attempt to muddy the water - that JRR came to Florida for a robbery? And maybe in a movie like Ocean's 11 do criminals travel 1500 miles and suit up for a robbery, but rarely do you see that in day to day. If it was a robbery, why - in the time prior to Teresa's arrival, weren't items of value taken? Items like the money that couldn't be traced?

And Teresa just happened to pick up one blue fiber, consistent with the overall fibers, the night she was killed - coveralls that one of the confessed killers said they had on?

How about the confession to Taylor - does that work to prove conspiracy for you? The discussion about the murder being done for a payment? At the time law enforcement came to town and kicked in the door of CWW, Taylor was pregnant with his child and dependent upon Jimmy for protection and income. So she decided to turn him in for a mere $400 a month? Give me a break.
<modsnipped> But we agree on this - the whole truth hasn't been heard and likely never will. I don't want to hear Jimmy's demented reason. He has a tattoo on his chest that says "Destruction and Murder" .....that is really all I need to know, given what he was clearly involved in doing to an innocent women, a doctor, a healer and a mother or two beautiful children. Maybe you would be okay with his kind walking around your neighborhood - but I suspect that the people of Missouri and Southwestern Florida think otherwise, including the woman who loved him and bore his child.

 

[Scalex]

The coveralls are an absolute indication of prior knowledge and intent. As is the duct tape.

Where is the evidence - besides a defense attorney's best attempt to muddy the water - that JRR came to Florida for a robbery? And maybe in a movie like Ocean's 11 do criminals travel 1500 miles and suit up for a robbery, but rarely do you see that in day to day. If it was a robbery, why - in the time prior to Teresa's arrival, weren't items of value taken? Items like the money that couldn't be traced?

And Teresa just happened to pick up one blue fiber, consistent with the overall fibers, the night she was killed - coveralls that one of the confessed killers said they had on?

How about the confession to Taylor - does that work to prove conspiracy for you? The discussion about the murder being done for a payment? At the time law enforcement came to town and kicked in the door of CWW, Taylor was pregnant with his child and dependent upon Jimmy for protection and income. So she decided to turn him in for a mere $400 a month? Give me a break.

If I didn't know any better, and playing a different type of devil's advocate, I'd say you hate CWW because of a personal connection to the attorneys involved - you certainly are taking the position of the defense and the arguments expected to be heard from the attorneys of MS. But we agree on this - the whole truth hasn't been heard and likely never will. I don't want to hear Jimmy's demented reason. He has a tattoo on his chest that says "Destruction and Murder" .....that is really all I need to know, given what he was clearly involved in doing to an innocent women, a doctor, a healer and a mother or two beautiful children. Maybe you would be okay with his kind walking around your neighborhood - but I suspect that the people of Missouri and Southwestern Florida think otherwise, including the woman who loved him and bore his child.

I said devils advocate. I agree that he was there, and that he was clearly wearing the coveralls, and so was CWW, and they are guilty. The fiber could be from either one of them. What I don’t agree is that it’s been proven without any doubt. I’m trying to watch and be objective, which is hard when we all have seen the evidence before the trial. I just want to see it from a jury perspective. Thankfully the trial isn’t over. I don’t think TaySho or CWW are credible on their own because of the amount of lies they’ve been caught in. TaySho was offered more than $400 a month, she said in trial they told her she could be eligible for $55,000 the first time they took a statement from her. That’s more than they said JRR was offered to commit a violent murder. And for the record, I live in SWFL, and I’m not on any side of this case. I’m simply trying to see from a Juror POV if it could be plausible if JRR could’ve come for a burglary, witnessed the murder by CWW, then helped cover up the crime, as to not implicate himself as an accomplice. Then maybe bragged to his girlfriend that he helped to sound like a tough guy. This is the story the defense is trying to sell the jurors. So is it or is it not possible? That’s what I’m racking my brain to decide. I think he’s guilty, but not just based on the testimony we’ve seen alone. I’d love to hear others thoughts.

 

[TTF14]

I haven't checked all the names on JRR's witness list, but there's 2 potential expert witnesses:

J D Sawicki
https://www.forensicdatacorp.com/about

Dr J C Downs
https://www.forensxpert.com/about

It wouldn't surprise me if neither are called.

Witness list searchable from here (filed 3/8/19):
https://matrix.leeclerk.org/Cases/Search

Sawicki just testified a couple weeks ago (for the defense) in the Dan Markel murder trial. Guess it's his thing.

 

[Deleted member 159541]

I said devils advocate. I agree that he was there, and that he was clearly wearing the coveralls, and so was CWW, and they are guilty. The fiber could be from either one of them. What I don’t agree is that it’s been proven without any doubt. I’m trying to watch and be objective, which is hard when we all have seen the evidence before the trial. I just want to see it from a jury perspective. Thankfully the trial isn’t over. I don’t think TaySho or CWW are credible on their own because of the amount of lies they’ve been caught in. TaySho was offered more than $400 a month, she said in trial they told her she could be eligible for $55,000 the first time they took a statement from her. That’s more than they said JRR was offered to commit a violent murder. And for the record, I live in SWFL, and I’m not on any side of this case. I’m simply trying to see from a Juror POV if it could be plausible if JRR could’ve come for a burglary, witnessed the murder by CWW, then helped cover up the crime, as to not implicate himself as an accomplice. Then maybe bragged to his girlfriend that he helped to sound like a tough guy. This is the story the defense is trying to sell the jurors. So is it or is it not possible? That’s what I’m racking my brain to decide. I think he’s guilty, but not just based on the testimony we’ve seen alone. I’d love to hear others thoughts.

Taylor thinks she is going to receive $55,000 and that is why she is testifying and clearly living in fear? She thinks, more than four years after the fact she is going to receive $55,000? Her whole body shaking when she first entered the court room wasn't fear? That is why she broke down in tears when being questioned about Jimmy being a good dad to her children and a good provider to her? Looked more to me like someone who was devastated by the person who was supposed to love and protect her and her kids and now literally feared being in the same room with him. I don't think she is that good an actress. "Destruction" and "Murder" tattoo. Not "Destruction" and "Robbery" -

 

[TrueCrimeAddict55]

I tried multi-quoting you and @Arachne 1 ' posts, not sure what I'm doing wrong.

You both give good insight! I always imagined the park was across from Jarvis. For some reason I pictured it diagonally across and up the street from the house. Wondering where on earth I got that from? But .... wasn't there a woman who saw the girls with Mark and/or Teresaa going to a park just up the street? Not that it has anything to do with the murders, I just always wondered where that park was.

The dog park is located on the north side of E. Terry St. When traveling on E. Terry St., (either way) you can see Jarvis Road (to the south) and the house. The closest intersection to the house is Jarvis Rd. and E. Terry St. The dog park is located a little west of Jarvis Rd. and definitely within walking distance of the house. When the dog park is closed at night, there is a chain across the entrance.

As always, hope this makes sense.

Prayers for justice to TS!!

 

[Arachne 1]

Msboo, they didn't just enter her house once but TWICE. They went in and poked around about 6:30 ish that morning. Crazy they weren't seen.

But, wait, Bobbywoo! I seem to recall that when detectives were canvassing the neighborhood, one neighbor saw something that struck her as odd. She was on her way to work at a local restaurant. She saw that the Sievers' garage door was up. She saw "Mark" and a younger guy doing something. She waved at "Mark", and "Mark" waved back. This was odd to her because Mark would never wave. He would just nod, in acknowledgement.

 

[beach]

Admin Note

Okay guys. Understandably emotions are running high. Please post respectfully towards each other. Particularly those with differing opinions.

 

[ScotAng]

The dog park is located on the north side of E. Terry St. When traveling on E. Terry St., (either way) you can see Jarvis Road (to the south) and the house. The closest intersection to the house is Jarvis Rd. and E. Terry St. The dog park is located a little west of Jarvis Rd. and definitely within walking distance of the house. When the dog park is closed at night, there is a chain across the entrance.

As always, hope this makes sense.

Prayers for justice to TS!!

Perfect sense, thanks TCA!

 

[msboo]

MY BAD! And I won’t ask for an acquittal.

Apologies to kakidoll and all on the Rodgers Trial thread and Thanks goes out to Oregonmama & Scalex (thought there was a 3rd member?) for correcting me about the defense team info I put out to answer kakidoll’s earlier question there.

I promise, no adult alcohol was involved in my misdeed.
Carry on Sleuths!

 

[msboo]

Admin Note

Okay guys. Understandably emotions are running high. Please post respectfully towards each other. Particularly those with differing opinions.

Beach.... much thanks & appreciation for calming the waters regarding the upcoming acquittal judgement. At first my mind just ran away with all sorts of thoughts. Of course this is one of the many possible pit stops that may occur on a trial highway. I’ll be glad to get to destination Guilty. The End. Next.

 

[msboo]

But, wait, Bobbywoo! I seem to recall that when detectives were canvassing the neighborhood, one neighbor saw something that struck her as odd. She was on her way to work at a local restaurant. She saw that the Sievers' garage door was up. She saw "Mark" and a younger guy doing something. She waved at "Mark", and "Mark" waved back. This was odd to her because Mark would never wave. He would just nod, in acknowledgement.

Surely this will be brought up.... and MS will say, “but that wasn’t me!”. And when CWW is questioned on this... be like Walmart cam footage, “but that’s not me!”.

Oldie TV show, To Tell The Truth.... will the real Ted Bundy please stand up!
Photos/top left to right is MS, CWW and the well known Ted Bundy

I hope & pray MS’s appearance isn’t altered for his trial. Little things can make a BIG difference... as in JRR’s nerdy little boy look. We’ll see though. Looking so much alike, as they look like twins from a short distance, can be a plus THEN a negative.

Prayers for justice for Teresa and all her family!

 

[Niner]

snipped by me...
TaySho was offered more than $400 a month, she said in trial they told her she could be eligible for $55,000 the first time they took a statement from her.

I believe - and I'm sure someone will correct me - but I think that $55K is in the LE victim's fund - meaning they use money from that fund to pay her the $400 a month for rent - or least that is the way I understood that testimony.

 

[susnoat]

I watched all of this heartbreaking trial so far. Yes I am happy with some aspects of how things have gone, and disapointed in some others. Here is my take: After the judge denies the motion Monday morning, all JR has left to save his life, is to take the stand, admit he was there, and tell what really happened if it differs from CWW story. And take CWW and MS down with him. That is really the bottom line at this point. I would like to offer what I think of some testimonies, but I think it is pretty much pointless at this point. I will say I do not think that CWW was completely truthful, but actually was truthful enough. As I watched that, there are certain things I saw and caught, mannerisms and catchisms that he has used his entire life. He is minimizing his role. Is it enough for the state to revoke his recomendation? Only JR knows.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I watched all of this heartbreaking trial so far. Yes I am happy with some aspects of how things have gone, and disapointed in some others. Here is my take: After the judge denies the motion Monday morning, all JR has left to save his life, is to take the stand, admit he was there, and tell what really happened if it differs from CWW story. And take CWW and MS down with him. That is really the bottom line at this point. I would like to offer what I think of some testimonies, but I think it is pretty much pointless at this point. I will say I do not think that CWW was completely truthful, but actually was truthful enough. As I watched that, there are certain things I saw and caught, mannerisms and catchisms that he has used his entire life. He is minimizing his role. Is it enough for the state to revoke his recomendation? Only JR knows.

I was hoping u would weigh in - thanks for your perspective. We’re glad to have u here.

 

[beach]

@Scalex Hope you don't mind that I copied your post so I could respond to the individual points you made. (Scalex's original post is in black, mine in blue and all emphasis is mine)

****************************************************************

I said devils advocate. I agree that he was there, and that he was clearly wearing the coveralls, and so was CWW, and they are guilty. The fiber could be from either one of them. What I don’t agree is that it’s been proven without any doubt.

It doesn't have to be proven without any doubt. The judge will order the standard to be reasonable doubt. I get that is often lost with jurors, especially in case with stakes so incredibly high. Still, I think they will be able to when considering all the evidence presented, in totality.

I’m trying to watch and be objective, which is hard when we all have seen the evidence before the trial. I just want to see it from a jury perspective.

Totally agree. I suggest everyone put their emotions and biases aside if they want to understand how a jury actually deliberates.

Thankfully the trial isn’t over. I don’t think TaySho or CWW are credible on their own because of the amount of lies they’ve been caught in. TaySho was offered more than $400 a month, she said in trial they told her she could be eligible for $55,000 the first time they took a statement from her. That’s more than they said JRR was offered to commit a violent murder. And for the record, I live in SWFL, and I’m not on any side of this case. I’m simply trying to see from a Juror POV if it could be plausible if JRR could’ve come for a burglary, witnessed the murder by CWW, then helped cover up the crime, as to not implicate himself as an accomplice. Then maybe bragged to his girlfriend that he helped to sound like a tough guy. This is the story the defense is trying to sell the jurors. So is it or is it not possible? That’s what I’m racking my brain to decide. I think he’s guilty, but not just based on the testimony we’ve seen alone. I’d love to hear others thoughts.

I agree that is the story the defense is trying to sell. I think it is a weak sales pitch, but not suggesting they have anything much better to go with. (Actually I can think of a better strategy, but not going to elaborate here until after the verdicts are rendered.) I disagree that Taylor and Wayne were not credible witnesses. Both came across MUCH, MUCH better than I had anticipated. Taylor came across as a young, unsophisticated, single mother with everything to lose if Jimmy was arrested. Important to note that she cooperated with LCSO before she had any clue about the witness assistance program. If she had any motive at all to cooperate, it would have been to avoid prosecution herself for helping to attempt to destroy evidence. She had zero motive to inform LE about the conversation they had in bed that night. She could have taken that to her grave and no one would have ever known. IMO, she told them because she was scared to death. She was genuinely terrified on the stand. And it wasn't just because of the courtroom atmosphere. She had her body turned so she didn't have to see Jimmy. So he could not intimidate her with his stares. She broke down several times. Once was when she was questioned about him being a good father to her children. She obviously had been in love with him and this was hard for her. Very vulnerable. Single mom with no child support, I think the jury will understand why she asked for the financial assistance.

Wayne - He is what/who he is. Most importantly, he owned it. He owned that he lied on his prior statements to LE. His reasoning was believable. He said he lied to protect them all. Later he lied to protect himself. That's what criminals do - lie so they won't be arrested. The jury will understand that. I believed almost every word that came out of his mouth until he got to the garage on the night of the murder. Even then, I believe most of what he said. The things that give me pause are things that don't really matter. For example, when he testified about why they came back for the funeral, he said it was because his "wife, being the person she is, insisted..." I think that was planned long before. It was his best friend's wife. He knew he would have to turn around and drive back down. There are a few other things but nothing significant as to Jimmy's involvement. The most important thing is - the physical evidence corroborates Wayne's testimony. It's been my experience that when a jury is torn about how much weight to give a convicted felon's testimony, they compare it to the physical evidence. If they do that, things should go okay for the prosecution. They don't have to like him. Heck, I cannot stand the man but I believe most of what he said. Frankly, knowing what we know about him, it is frightening how well he presents himself. He came across as actually quite likable. Stop for a minute and think about that. Terrifying.