Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

[SStarr33]

The Oregon pt is low risk. Probably not ebola

 

[SStarr33]

Wow, the video attached of a "humble" kaci Hickox was a real study in contradiction. Her facial expressions and speech totally did not show "humble" or matched her deep concern in her words. Looked as though she was really trying not to break out laughing as she said that she was humbled. JMO:gaah:

IDK. I get 100% politician from her. Actually, more like 1000%.

Can't wait to find out her role when she was in WA as well as what happened with her roomie. Waiting with opcorn:, cause I've got a feeling we've only got the tip of the iceberg here. We can't sleuth her, but others are hot on the trail.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Obviously nurse KH has taken the oath that all RN's do. And in doing so she in essence swears to treat all people equally within her care and make the well being of her fellow man her highest priority.
So she purposefully & not by accident or circumstance helps people in W Africa -- a very high risk area of caregiving. In doing so, she is altruistic and yet assumes personal risk to her own well-being. She knows this. She is either going there because she feels the cause of helping/healing overshadows her risk of her contracting the disease. If that is the case, why would she suddenly shed her altruistic nature to become an outspoken advocate of her civil rights? Even if she felt it to all be fear mongering, why wouldn't she once again take the high road? She knows she chose to take on this high risk---why would she presume anyone else should be exposed to the same risk? Where's the humbleness, the altruism?

Again, "do no harm".....that's the oath, in a nutshell.

But since she has chosen a more controversial demeanor since back in the USA, I wonder what really motivates her? Why the lack of regard for safety, mandates, and to protect the interest of the population at hand? If you care for your fellow man, their mental & physical health--then why not abide by the rules for a mere 3 weeks and suck it up?

I have seen people in many professions that really don't analyze the full risks & consequences for their choices and actions. I've heard of people that enjoy a "hero" status except when they don't like the downsides. Some may think that they could never be the patient---they have a false sense of reality.

Bless the health care workers treating Ebol*.....and let them never spread it should they get it.


All moo....brutally honest

 

[SteveS]

So I assume you believe the Pentagon is wrong to quarantine our troops for 21 days upon their return from W. Africa?

The Pentagon, as employer and commander, has the right to demand whatever it wants of its soldiers. The boss may be smart, or the boss may be dumb, but the boss is still the boss.

 

[SteveS]

I remain perplexed that Nurse Nina Phem was capable of flying off to DC to give the President a hug after having contracted the deadly Ebola virus and recovered.

I believe she was at a hospital in MD, so no flight to visit the White House on her release, just a drive.

I am puzzled over what the issue is, with her being "capable" of traveling (by whatever means she might prefer) to the White House after she was healthy again.

 

[SteveS]

Obviously nurse KH has taken the oath that all RN's do. And in doing so she in essence swears to treat all people equally within her care and make the well being of her fellow man her highest priority.

So she purposefully & not by accident or circumstance helps people in W Africa -- a very high risk area of caregiving. In doing so, she is altruistic and yet assumes personal risk to her own well-being.

<snip>

Why the lack of regard for safety, mandates, and to protect the interest of the population at hand?

She has not exhibited ANY "lack of regard for safety ... and to protect the interest of the population at hand." But she has exhibited an insistence that she not be locked up because of fear that really isn't founded in science, and the politicians who want to pander to that unfounded fear. That's a huge difference from the way you're labeling her.

 

[SStarr33]

She has not exhibited ANY "lack of regard for safety ... and to protect the interest of the population at hand." But she has exhibited an insistence that she not be locked up because of fear that really isn't founded in science, and the politicians who want to pander to that unfounded fear. That's a huge difference from the way you're labeling her.

There are scientists who believe she is doing the wrong thing. They have been posted here time and time again. The court went by the CDC who has been shown to be a joke over and over and over and over.

 

[JudyBolton]

Obviously nurse KH has taken the oath that all RN's do. And in doing so she in essence swears to treat all people equally within her care and make the well being of her fellow man her highest priority.
So she purposefully & not by accident or circumstance helps people in W Africa -- a very high risk area of caregiving. In doing so, she is altruistic and yet assumes personal risk to her own well-being. She knows this. She is either going there because she feels the cause of helping/healing overshadows her risk of her contracting the disease. If that is the case, why would she suddenly shed her altruistic nature to become an outspoken advocate of her civil rights? Even if she felt it to all be fear mongering, why wouldn't she once again take the high road? She knows she chose to take on this high risk---why would she presume anyone else should be exposed to the same risk? Where's the humbleness, the altruism?

Again, "do no harm".....that's the oath, in a nutshell.

But since she has chosen a more controversial demeanor since back in the USA, I wonder what really motivates her? Why the lack of regard for safety, mandates, and to protect the interest of the population at hand? If you care for your fellow man, their mental & physical health--then why not abide by the rules for a mere 3 weeks and suck it up?

I have seen people in many professions that really don't analyze the full risks & consequences for their choices and actions. I've heard of people that enjoy a "hero" status except when they don't like the downsides. Some may think that they could never be the patient---they have a false sense of reality.

Bless the health care workers treating Ebol*.....and let them never spread it should they get it.


All moo....brutally honest

Yes - I think there is more than meets the eye. Now that she has chosen to put herself out there - I'm quite sure it will all come out. Her neighbors have started a petition asking her to stay inside her home to minimize their risk. They collected 1,500 signatures in less than 60 minutes.

A recent poll said 80% of Americans want fellow citizens to be quarantined if they return from W. Africa. Public opinion is *not* on her side. I don't think - whatever her motivation is - that she has thought through all of this. (imo)

 

[SteveS]

A recent poll said 80% of Americans want fellow citizens to be quarantined if they return from W. Africa. Public opinion is *not* on her side.

Obviously, that means she probably can't get elected. I doubt she cares - or that it really matters in the bigger scheme of things. Public opinion is fickle.

 

[SStarr33]

Obviously, that means she probably can't get elected. I doubt she cares - or that it really matters in the bigger scheme of things. Public opinion is fickle.

She doesn't care, but MSF should care. With 80% of Americans disagreeing with this, their donations will take a hit.

 

[Zuri]

Here's the CDC weekly flu activity map: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/usmap.htm
Note it's always a week behind. This might help when looking at fevers around the country, to consider what other types of illnesses a patient may have.

Of course I agree to assume ebola virus with a fever at threshold or higher who's recently visited W Africa until tests come back.

Thank you for posting the map. I am not very concerned about Ebola. I am concerned about Flu viruses which will affect much larger populations than the 10 or so reported cases out of 300 Million plus people. More people will die from the flu in the US. I just wish CNN would knock off the mass hysteria reporting as it gets people all riled up and worried.

 

[Zuri]

As an RN, if I was exposed to Ebola, taking care of Ebola patients, I would not hesitate to self quarantine for 21 days. It is irresponsible not to, unless the tests are accurate and the results are negative. I don't know that I agree totally with KC 's firm stance, but playing into the fear mongering has got to have its limits. JMV

 

[jjenny]

As an RN, if I was exposed to Ebola, taking care of Ebola patients, I would not hesitate to self quarantine for 21 days. It is irresponsible not to, unless the tests are accurate and the results are negative. I don't know that I agree totally with KC 's firm stance, but playing into the fear mongering has got to have its limits. JMV

Ebola tests are not going to determine if someone will develop Ebola if they are done during the incubation period.
Tests come back negative until the patient builds up enough virus in their blood.
So someone who tests negative during incubation period could still come up with Ebola.

 

[gitana1]

There are scientists who believe she is doing the wrong thing. They have been posted here time and time again. The court went by the CDC who has been shown to be a joke over and over and over and over.

Well, I think that's a matter of opinion - whether the CDC has been shown to be a "joke over and over and over". I think a lot of the criticism is unfair: http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/health/cdc-frieden-facing-criticism/

But I also appreciate a healthy skepticism of government. Critical thinking and questioning government is important. I won't place blind faith in anyone or any institution.

Nevertheless, for me at least, logic supports what the CDC says regarding quarantine.

And it's not just the CDC saying quarantine of people who have been exposed but have not been shown to be infected.is unnecessary and not supported by science:

1. Epidemiologists. Health officers. Infectious disease researchers. Medical anthropologists.

Though Ebola&#8217;s dangers are real and terrifying, epidemiologists and other authorities say that, for now, its greatest mark could be on the psyche of the country where other health threats are more perilous. In Montgomery County, meanwhile, health officials have been reminding the public that there were 36,000 flu-related deaths in the country last year.
&#8220;I urge individuals to try to keep this in perspective. It is scary, it is worrisome, but in our country, more people will die from the flu than from Ebola,&#8221; Montgomery Health Officer Ulder Tillman said earlier this week.http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...60fb96-54a8-11e4-ba4b-f6333e2c0453_story.html


&#8220;There is no risk to students attending the schools,&#8221; said Brett Giroir, an infectious-disease researcher and CEO of the Texas A&M Health Science Center in Bryan. He said local health officials should keep doing what they&#8217;re doing: being transparent and reassuring the public that Ebola cannot be spread by casual contact.

But quelling public concern might be easier said than done.

But unlike Sierra Leone or Liberia or Guinea, &#8220;we have a public health infrastructure to quickly isolate and treat the Ebola patient,&#8221; said MacPhail, who has researched responses to disease outbreaks and who wrote The Viral Network: A Pathography of the H1N1 Influenza Pandemic.

Because of an advanced medical system and the nature of the disease, &#8220;we don&#8217;t need to be worried about this getting out of hand. If this was SARS, Dallas would be in big trouble,&#8221; she said, referring to severe acute respiratory syndrome, which killed 775 people, mainly in Hong Kong, in 2002-03.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/10/01/6167314/fear-of-ebola-can-spread-despite.html

2. We are not West Africa nor health care workers treating Ebola patients.

This is how to get Ebola: Come into direct contact with the bodily fluids of a person who is infected with the virus and already symptomatic. Ebola doesn't travel through the air. A person in Washington, D.C., can't catch Ebola from an Ebola-infected person in Dallas without going there and coming into direct contact with the patient's bodily fluids.

Still, amid the deadliest Ebola outbreak in history, in West Africa, the news of the first case diagnosed in the United States has prompted people to act as if they're a half-breath away from catching the virus anyway.

Fear of Ebola eclipses other health crises around the world, including diarrhea, a preventable and treatable condition that still kills 1.5 million children each year.
The reason Ebola &#8212; a disease that has a relatively low transmission rate &#8212; has spread so dramatically and quickly through Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea has little to do with the characteristics of the virus. Now, as before the outbreak, "people are malnourished, with ill shelter, and most importantly, no access to adequate healthcare," Wald said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/05/nothing-to-fear-but-ebola-itself/

West Africa was ill-equipped for an Ebola disaster because civil war and chronic poverty had undermined local health systems and there were few doctors and nurses. Health workers in the region had never experienced an Ebola outbreak and didn't know what they were seeing in those first critical months. In the spring the outbreak seemed to fade, making officials overconfident. And then the virus made the leap from rural villages to crowded cities.

Local customs in handling the dead led to further infections. Some West Africans believe that the day you die is one of the most important days of your life. The final farewell can be a hands-on, affectionate ritual in which the body is washed and dressed, and in some villages carried through the community, where friends and relatives will share a favorite beverage by putting the cup to the lips of the deceased before taking a drink.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/10/04/how-ebola-sped-out-of-control/

4. Psychology.

In a sense, Ebola has captured our collective fear because it, like epidemic movies, relies on a fictional burst of imagination. Ebola is an ingredient in an outbreak story we're already primed to tell, in zombie stories and films such as "Contagion."

When applied to a real epidemic, Wald said, the speculative outbreak narrative sidelines a necessary discussion about the underlying causes of the actual outbreak. "We are not talking about global poverty," she said.

Humans have a long history of overreacting like this, often to threats that turn out to be false. When the brain comes into contact with a perceived threat, there are generally one of three outcomes. If the threat is real, and the individual reacts to the threat properly, it's called a "hit." "If it is a genuine fear and I don't act, it's a miss. If I act and it's not, it's a false alarm," said Shmuel Lissek, founder of the ANGST Lab at the University of Minnesota, where he studies the human brain's responses to fear.

As it turns out, our brains may have evolved to avoid "misses." In early human history, Lissek said, "the cost of a miss ... of not taking it seriously, could potentially be lethal."

Some people, more than others, have trouble inhibiting this fear response, even when the logical part of their brains tell them that the threat isn't real.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/05/nothing-to-fear-but-ebola-itself/

&#8220;Ebola is a very sensational disease &#8212; gruesome and brutal &#8212; that plays into our post-9-11 national culture of fear,&#8221; Theresa MacPhail, a medical anthropologist at Stevens Institute of Technology, said in a telephone interview from Hoboken, N.J. &#8220;Ebola seems like all our worst possible fears are coming true.&#8221;
http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/10/01/6167314/fear-of-ebola-can-spread-despite.html

5. Nigeria.

Totally contained and eradicated Ebola, despite corruption, third world sanitation and no use of quarantine. http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...la-nigeria-state-public-sector-calestous-juma

I understand the fear. Being a person who has struggled with fear all of my life, since I was tiny, I really get it. But I'm sensitive to unfounded fears and the effect of spreading them.

To me, the fear of an Ebola pandemic is unfounded at this point. Especially when it comes to the spread here. And I don't believe civil liberties should be threatened due to unfounded fear.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

She has not exhibited ANY "lack of regard for safety ... and to protect the interest of the population at hand." But she has exhibited an insistence that she not be locked up because of fear that really isn't founded in science, and the politicians who want to pander to that unfounded fear. That's a huge difference from the way you're labeling her.

First, I did not "label" her.
Second, I am pointing out an emotional side to the RN profession.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Any updates on KH's roommate?
(The one who said she doesn't know how she became ill)

 

[Detective Klimpt]

<respectually snipped: article you quoted>

Though Ebola’s dangers are real and terrifying, epidemiologists and other authorities say that, for now, its greatest mark could be on the psyche of the country where other health threats are more perilous. In Montgomery County, meanwhile, health officials have been reminding the public that there were 36,000 flu-related deaths in the country last year.
“I urge individuals to try to keep this in perspective. It is scary, it is worrisome, but in our country, more people will die from the flu than from Ebola,” Montgomery Health Officer Ulder Tillman said earlier this week.http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...453_story.html

MOO, I don't get the regular reminder that more people will get or die from flu than from Ebola. More people will <currently> die from cancer and heart attacks too. The point for me is that we (USA) can help prevent Ebola by taking proactive measures. We may never been able to completely prevent any disease, but even preventing one case makes it worth it. Me...I'm in favor of the visa ban on other than essential travel into and out of those countries. I'm in favor of stricter immigration policies for all countries, but that discussion belons in the political forums.

I am not personally fearful of contacting Ebola at this point in my life (for various reasons). I am more concerned about what will happen if multiple cases show up and we don't have enough hosptial personnel to care for these cases. I read yesterday just how many health care workers are currently monitoring something like 100 people that came in contact with Spencer. What if there are 3 Spencers in NYC? We don't have enough health care workers to do the job or that even want to do that job. Less and less people are going into the health care profession as it is. The high premiums on insurance for doctors is some of the reason. We need to encourage people to go into health care in this country, not in Africa. MOO

 

[SStarr33]

"This health care person does not have accurate info. [Spencer's] fever was initially transcribed wrong. It was 100.3 not 103."



Don't know if you got an answer, but that fact has been reported everywhere. If you really want it, it shouldn't be too hard for you to verify if you do a quick google search.

What they are saying
"there could be as many as 170,000 cases and 90,000 deaths by Dec. 15"

Fear-mongering at its finest. Great work. Trying to negate the facts emerging, that the numbers have been going down not up, with a purely speculative "statement" asserting over-the-top calamity "could" happen. Oh, and the bottom line of the message: we need an infusion of more money to combat this wave of doom ahead. Predictable.

Here are some "facts" that could have been found with a "quick google search"

S.Leone Ebola outbreak 'catastrophic': aid group MSF

http://news.yahoo.com/leone-ebola-outbreak-catastrophic-aid-group-msf-223833151.html

Reporters banned from ETUs in Liberia

http://news.yahoo.com/liberia-bans-journalists-ebola-centres-005429176.html

The Underreported Side of the Ebola Crisis

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rose-ann-demoro/the-under-reported-side-o_b_5775648.html

WHO warns of "shadow zones" and unreported Ebola cases

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/uk-health-ebola-who-idUKKBN0GM0S720140822

Ebola: Liberia deaths ‘far higher than reported’ as officials downplay epidemic

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/19/ebola-liberia-death-toll-data-sorious-samura

Ebola cases in West Africa may be vastly underreported, WHO says

http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-africa-ebola-20140828-story.html

This is just a small sampling of the stories.

 

[SStarr33]

Rutland man: He may consider breaking quarantine

http://www.wcax.com/story/27179197/rutland-man-he-may-consider-breaking-quarantine

 

[Detective Klimpt]

Rutland man: He may consider breaking quarantine

http://www.wcax.com/story/27179197/rutland-man-he-may-consider-breaking-quarantine

"But the Rutland man says he can no longer access Facebook"
Well, that's a damn shame.