2Hip2BSquare
Former Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,694
- Reaction score
- 2
The drowning doesn't add up.
You or I can't make that determination with any certainty at all. Psychosis as a side effect of bipolar disorder doesn't have to have a history, especially in someone as young as Elisa. Also--and most importantly--we have no idea if she has a history of this. We don't know her history. The little we do know comes from her own words, which directly indicated that she was experiencing serious bipolar disorder.Sorry but even psychosis wouldn't make her do that. She has no history of doing so.
I think that comparison would be in the police report if it was made. The medical examiners wouldn't be out on the roof comparing particles. They probably just made the comment because it's part of the formality of recording details, but any further investigation would be police work. This is purely the autopsy report, not the police investigation.snipped...
You can see from the photos that there was sludge in the bottom of the tank after the remains were removed. They could have compared the sludge at the bottom of the tank to the sand in her clothes, rather than just brainlessly noting it.
You or I can't make that determination with any certainty at all. Psychosis as a side effect of bipolar disorder doesn't have to have a history, especially in someone as young as Elisa. Also--and most importantly--we have no idea if she has a history of this. We don't know her history. The little we do know comes from her own words, which directly indicated that she was experiencing serious bipolar disorder.
You or I can't make that determination with any certainty at all. Psychosis as a side effect of bipolar disorder doesn't have to have a history, especially in someone as young as Elisa. Also--and most importantly--we have no idea if she has a history of this. We don't know her history. The little we do know comes from her own words, which directly indicated that she was experiencing serious bipolar disorder.
I agree. I wonder if this report includes the final drug analysis and if there are other tests that are not included here.Snipped...
This report certainly does not sufficiently support the ruling, IMO.
"Both the coroner and police notice the sand like particulate matter (the detective note a white particle too) throughout her clothing"
I've worked on a lot of buildings, and spent a lot of time on their roofs.
It's surprising how much wind blown grit collects on roofs, especially in the corners behind the parapet.
I would expect to find sand-like grit on the roof of the Cecil, especially in a dry climate like LA.
But not in the water in a roof-top tank. Very fine particles (sludge) yes, but not sand. It would settle out, or be filtered out, before making its way up the pipe to the roof-top tank.
You can see from the photos that there was sludge in the bottom of the tank after the remains were removed. They could have compared the sludge at the bottom of the tank to the sand in her clothes, rather than just brainlessly noting it.
Maybe her clothes were removed and placed on the sand/grit covered roof, before being put in the tank.
Right, but this report does not contain the details of the police investigation. It mentions that a police officer saw the sand, but this is not a detailed account of how the police conducted their investigation. How the police reacted to the sand (and every other detail of their investigation) would be found in the police report.Both the coroner and police notice the sand like particulate matter (the detective note a white particle too) throughout her clothing"
Apparently the police did note it.
Someone posted detailed pictures of the rooftop a couple of months after Elisa was found. The tank still had the hole cut in the side of it, and there was a fairly large amount of sediment in an inch or two of water in the bottom of the tank. The pictures are in a thread on this forum (not sure where at the moment).They noted that:
"all of the noted items had sand like particulates attached to the fabric and loosely present in the fold of the clothes and on the drying mats"
Also what photos of Elisa/sludge in the cistern have you seen? I did not see any.
Hope this helps.
Firstly, the report states that their results were inconclusive regarding the medication. Secondly, medication is far from a perfect science. Medication can help, but it can also induce episodes. It can also do nothing either way. On top of that, she was in a period of flux with her meds, as I believe she indicated a couple of months before she died. And when switching meds around, results can be unpredictable. As I've stated previously, when antidepressants alone are given to bipolar people, then can easily cause manic episodes... that's one example of the slippery nature of drugs and mental illness. Ultimately, the medication issue doesn't tell us a single thing one way or the other in this case.Also her medication was in her system. How can one have a psychotic break when they are taking their medication?
"on the drying mats"
What's a drying mat? Something in an autopsy room?
Firstly, the report states that their results were inconclusive regarding the medication. Secondly, medication is far from a perfect science. Medication can help, but it can also induce episodes. It can also do nothing either way. On top of that, she was in a period of flux with her meds, as I believe she indicated a couple of months before she died. And when switching meds around, results can be unpredictable. As I've stated previously, when antidepressants alone are given to bipolar people, then can easily cause manic episodes... that's one example of the slippery nature of drugs and mental illness. Ultimately, the medication issue doesn't tell us a single thing one way or the other in this case.
Regardless, I don't want to argue about the mental illness. An endless debate that could be had, and we still wouldn't be any closer to the truth.
Here are the facts as I see them regarding her mental illness: There is strong indications that she suffered with serious bipolar, but we cannot say with certainty if it was or wasn't involved in her death. Period.
But for some of us, there is a strong indication that it was involved. And that is an assertion that is based on intuition, much like your assertion that the Cecil being a "murder hotel" causes you to lean further in the direction of foul play. We're all functioning largely off of intuition because the facts are still fairly bare, and in some cases are contradictory. That's why I don't think it is logical to hold too tightly to our own opinions, because we have a lot of blind spots in this case, and our minds start trying to fill in those blind spots with assumption.