Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[cityslick]

My thoughts on this? The judge will handle it, this side show does nothing to bring Lisa home.

We don't agree often, but agree 100% on this.

 

[stilettos]

It's not acceptable, but do you have any proof that she's a raging alcoholic? That this kind of thing happens on a frequent basis, where the kids are being neglected all the time? If you got some proof that DB was known to buy and drink wine multiple times during the week while she was watching the children, then you got a case (pretty strong one).

It's not acceptable, but it does happen in isolated incidents. If we start taking away kids for every indiscretion that we deem as 'neglect' then there are going to be a ton of kids either a) in foster homes or b) with non-custodial parents.

I do believe that DB herself said she does it 2-3 times a week. You do not need to be an alcoholic to neglect your children. Frankly, just once is too many times. I worked in the DFCS system and I understand that opening a case file and the removal of children are two different things. Just this one incident is enough (IMO) to open a case file, look into the parenting of these children, get school records and find out whether these people are providing a safe nuturing enviornment to the children. Sometimes it only takes once to harm a child.

 

[cityslick]

I do believe that DB herself said she does it 2-3 times a week. You do not need to be an alcoholic to neglect your children. Frankly, just once is too many times. I worked in the DFCS system and I understand that opening a case file and the removal of children are two different things. Just this one incident is enough (IMO) to open a case file, look into the parenting of these children, get school records and find out whether these people are providing a safe nuturing enviornment to the children. Sometimes it only takes once to harm a child.

She admitted she gets drunk 2-3 times a week? You worked in DFCS, so you probably know that usually there needs to be a pattern of neglect before action is taken, depending on the severity. Take a child out of a home, no matter the circumstance, is usually a traumatic thing for all involved, especially the child and is not something that should be taken lightly.

Yes, by all means, take a look at the records, find out what the real story is. Don't automatically jump to the conclusion that he should lose custody based solely on this episode.

 

[Kamille]

While I'm not sure I agree with the Mom causing more of an uproar in this young boy's life at this time, wouldn't the hearing at least require JI and perhaps DB to answer some questions about what happened that night? Questions that they have yet to answer to LE. Separately.

Isn't this something like the Kyron Horman situation where the mother has not fought for custody of her daughter for fear of incriminating herself in the case regarding Kyron?

So maybe some good will come out of a custody hearing anyway? If JI is totally innocent, I doubt he'd be willing to not show up and answer questions. And if he plans on continuing to have DB as the caregiver for his son, wouldn't she have to show up and answer some questions too? And can the judge force them to do this separately?

MOO

 

[Abby Normal]

I'm reasonably sure there is no pattern of neglect. Until they show that she hurt her child or caused harm to come to her by neglect (which means more than drinking while she is sleeping), this is teeny tiny potatoes. I had a child in my care not long ago whose parents left him in a carseat behind a gas station by a dumpster at almost 4 months old in October. They came back 4 hours later to find him. Don't know if they made a drug run, or if they were just that messed up... but meth was definitely involved. There were obvious signs of neglect (malnourished, dirty, rashes, flat head) and the house was grotesque to the point of being considered a hazard. Yet ultimately, they got their child back after 11 months. Just imagine the cases where parental rights are relinquished.

 

[Sparklin]

DB did not just "take a night off". Taking a night off is leaving another responsible party to care for your children. DB left three minor children without care, one an infant who she failed to protect by her actions. As a parent, you don't get to do that. IMO, that is called neglect and there are provisions in MO law to remedy that.

bbm = No she didn't. She didn't leave the children at all. No one can say if she was or was not capable of dealing with whatever happened to her children...except of course if she was sleeping and someone took her child, which could have happened if she had one glass of wine or 50 imo

 

[Abby Normal]

While I'm not sure I agree with the Mom causing more of an uproar in this young boy's life at this time, wouldn't the hearing at least require JI and perhaps DB to answer some questions about what happened that night? Questions that they have yet to answer to LE. Separately.

Isn't this something like the Kyron Horman situation where the mother has not fought for custody of her daughter for fear of incriminating herself in the case regarding Kyron?

So maybe some good will come out of a custody hearing anyway? If JI is totally innocent, I doubt he'd be willing to not show up and answer questions. And if he plans on continuing to have DB as the caregiver for his son, wouldn't she have to show up and answer some questions too? And can the judge force them to do this separately?

MOO

They have answered those questions to LE, they are just refusing to continue to do so. I believe you're right though that they will have to show that they are a safe home environment.

I believe JI will fight for his son, even if it means kicking DB out. I think he can reasonably prove he wasn't at fault and acted in good faith WRT to their missing child. Good alibi, left with a partner who even her ex in laws claim to be a good mom.

 

[Jacie Estes]

We don't know what time JI was planning to come home from work that night. We don't know how long past this expected time he did get home. Lisa was put to bed, the boys were watching the movie, with the neighbor's child. The adults were sitting outside, visiting and drinking wine. None of this is in a vacuum; there was activity in the house and around it. Did the new neighbor, who stopped by to visit, hear screaming kids, a baby crying or what. His statement is part of LE investigation. At this point in time, LE has accrued voluminous information, to the extent that the FBI is knocking on someone's door half a country away. Where is the arrest warrant for DB? Where is the arrest warrant for JI? With all of the presumed guilt of these two there must be a reason for LE to swoop in and arrest DB/JI and take the oldest boy to a biomother who has had no contact with him for how long?

Not all parents are helicopter parents; when our son was a newborn, I had a cradle in our room for him and would sit at night watching him sleep, partly because we had a perinatal scare and had already lost one child just before birth; fortunately, with our son, everything was fine after a scary two weeks . As he grew older, certainly by Lisa's age, he was in his own room and quite healthy and content. Bed time was bed time, if he didn't go to sleep right away there were glow worms, teddy bears and a wave machine to keep him content. If he didn't drift off right away, he did soon. We all have similar stories, those of us who have children; not every night was a perfect, planned evening. We can't say DB was negligent because of one evening's events. We can't say that JI should lose custody of a son he has cared for and had custody of for all these years, because of a hypothetical. We don't know where Lisa is, we don't know what happened to her. At this point JI losing custoy of the oldest boy, his son, is not warranted.


Biomother is now called Mrs. RR; is she married to someone else, how will the boy be received? She did not have custody for a reason. We don't know the reason she did not have her son. Who is the 'family' that will embark on this effort to get custody and file emergency papers with her? If they were there before, they didn't get custody that last time, did they?

 

[curvecuti]

bbm = No she didn't. She didn't leave the children at all. No one can say if she was or was not capable of dealing with whatever happened to her children...except of course if she was sleeping and someone took her child, which could have happened if she had one glass of wine or 50 imo

Being black out drunk is the equivalent of leaving children by themselves. She was incapable of caring for them in an emergency. That is neglectful no matter how you spin it. Moo.

 

[Sparklin]

BBM No it doesn't. What it does = is a parent who cannot drive a child to the hospital in the case of an emergency. A parent who has no idea of her child lay in a feces filled diaper all night. A parent who cannot be responsible for the welfare of two little boys. A parent who is so drunk that they fail to protect (if it was an abduction) their baby. Since she admits a black-out drunk...there is no way for her or us to know what she might do to her children. That is why you never leave minor children unprotected in the sole care of a person over the legal limit of consumption or in the care of one who admits to her drinking to the point of blackout drunk. For the life of me I cannot figure out why it is acceptable for some in our society to be so drunk you cannot care for your children.

She didn't admit to a black out - she said it was a possibility. Once her head hit the pillow and she passed out, whether from alcohol or exhaustion she had no control over someone entering her home and taking Lisa. There are millions of people who do not have a license or vehicle and could not take their child to hospital regardless of drinking. If a child is uncomfortable sleeping in a dirty diaper, chances are they will wake up crying - no one can say whether, if this could have happened, Deb wouldn't have heard her. Trust me when I tell you that a drunk parent can and does take care of their children when necessary. No one said she couldn't take care of her children, ever.

 

[scmom]

Well, as far as I can see, biodad, JI, from what is being implied about his son's mother, and again with Lisa's biomom, sure can pick winners.

 

[Sparklin]

Being black out drunk is the equivalent of leaving children by themselves. She was incapable of caring for them in an emergency. That is neglectful no matter how you spin it. Moo.

She may not have felt 'black out drunk' at all. And being drunk def. is not the same as leaving the child alone. We don't know that she couldn't care for them in an emergency. Being sound asleep is the equivalent of leaving children by themselves? No. We won't ever know if in fact, Lisa had woken up crying to be changed or fed, that Deb wouldn't have heard her, except someone took her before that happened...imo

 

[curvecuti]

She didn't admit to a black out - she said it was a possibility. Once her head hit the pillow and she passed out, whether from alcohol or exhaustion she had no control over someone entering her home and taking Lisa. There are millions of people who do not have a license or vehicle and could not take their child to hospital regardless of drinking. If a child is uncomfortable sleeping in a dirty diaper, chances are they will wake up crying - no one can say whether, if this could have happened, Deb wouldn't have heard her. Trust me when I tell you that a drunk parent can and does take care of their children when necessary. No one said she couldn't take care of her children, ever.

BBM. That's like being possibly pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. Not having a license or car is a totally different animal. Most of those people are capable of going to a neighbors or using the phone to call 911. Black out drunks have no idea what they are doing. moo

 

[Jacie Estes]

She didn't admit to a black out - she said it was a possibility. Once her head hit the pillow and she passed out, whether from alcohol or exhaustion she had no control over someone entering her home and taking Lisa. There are millions of people who do not have a license or vehicle and could not take their child to hospital regardless of drinking. If a child is uncomfortable sleeping in a dirty diaper, chances are they will wake up crying - no one can say whether, if this could have happened, Deb wouldn't have heard her. Trust me when I tell you that a drunk parent can and does take care of their children when necessary. No one said she couldn't take care of her children, ever.

Exactly; If a child requires a visit to an emergency room it would be neglectful to NOT call 911 and have EMTs care for the child on the way to the hospital. What is the sense of a parent driving a sick/injured child to an emergency room? They can't drive and give proper medical care at the same time. That is neglectful to the parents and to the other drivers on the road. IMHO

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

bbm = No she didn't. She didn't leave the children at all. No one can say if she was or was not capable of dealing with whatever happened to her children...except of course if she was sleeping and someone took her child, which could have happened if she had one glass of wine or 50 imo

There is a profound difference in sleeping and being in a blackout state of which DB has admitted is a possibility and therefore, is unable to answer questions with any clarity on what she might have seen or heard to LE that are looking for her missing baby.

 

[curvecuti]

She may not have felt 'black out drunk' at all. And being drunk def. is not the same as leaving the child alone. We don't know that she couldn't care for them in an emergency. Being sound asleep is the equivalent of leaving children by themselves? No. We won't ever know if in fact, Lisa had woken up crying to be changed or fed, that Deb wouldn't have heard her, except someone took her before that happened...imo

A long, long, time ago, I used to be married to an alcoholic. I have seen him black out drunk many times. He would be useless in an emergency situation. He certainly couldn't have cared for a child, he couldn't care for himself in that state. Being asleep and being black out drunk are 2 complete opposite scenarios.

 

[Just K]

Well they aren't step brothers, their parents are dating. I never referred to kids of my dad's girlfriends as my step siblings. Granted we didn't live with our dad and sometimes the girlfriends kids would be visiting their dad on weekends when we were visiting our dad. We loved them, but they still weren't our step siblings or ever referred to as such.

It probably really depends on how JI & DB refer to the kids to each other.

DB calls them "My Boys." Check any early October 5th through October 8th Videos. She also refers to them as "our boys."

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Exactly; If a child requires a visit to an emergency room it would be neglectful to NOT call 911 and have EMTs care for the child on the way to the hospital. What is the sense of a parent driving a sick/injured child to an emergency room? They can't drive and give proper medical care at the same time. That is neglectful to the parents and to the other drivers on the road. IMHO

Not all emergencies require the use of 911 and an ambulance. Elevated temps that spike, vomiting, insect bites etc. I can think of many things that do require an emergency room visit but do not require 911 or an ambulance. In any case I would not want a parent that is in a possible black out state of orientation to be making medical decisions for any child.

 

[tlcya]

Here's a short article that quotes the mom (not recent article). She states she hasn't seen her son for years. So, she lost custody and she hasn't seen him for years. Something tells me she has issues. I'm not jumping on the "I hope she gets custody" bandwagon.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...f-one-of-lisa-irwins-half-brothers-speaks-out

Thank you button was not enough. Without knowing what drove the original custody decision and what motivated the mother's subsequent inaction in regards to that decision, I will not be championing this cause. Also, until I know JI is not a fit father, or even suspect such, I cannot leap on the bandwagon.

Back to lurk mode.

 

[curiousc]

Sadly, in custody battles, people swing false allegations. I keep thinking to the mention of JI being "ruthless" in trying to get custody of his son. I've seen in the past, men will throw mud to get what they want. Could have been the case here, I don't know.

However, why didn't mom visit her son in the last few years? Maybe she moved away to be with family and didn't have the money? I don't know. Has she kept in any contact at all such as phoning her son, sending letters or gifts for his birthday and Christmas?

An emergency custody order is usually held in court pretty quick once filed so this will probably be in court real soon.