Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

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Dina frequently ordered-in pizzas for lunch for the kids.......not the healthiest thing IMO. Also , pretty lazy on her part.

Every time I read this comment I get steamed. Just what is 'frequently'? Isn't that kind of subjective? And how would you know how many times she actually ordered pizza? And how would you determine it was out of laziness and not for any other number of reasons?

And how is pizza unhealthy for kids? I don't see a problem with it? FGS, this woman's child died a brutal death, and we are going to publicly label her a lazy, bad mom, because she 'frequently' ordered pizza for her kids at lunchtime? How embarrassing.
 
Every time I read this comment I get steamed. Just what is 'frequently'? Isn't that kind of subjective? And how would you know how many times she actually ordered pizza? And how would you determine it was out of laziness and not for any other number of reasons?

And how is pizza unhealthy for kids? I don't see a problem with it? FGS, this woman's child died a brutal death, and we are going to publicly label her a lazy, bad mom, because she 'frequently' ordered pizza for her kids at lunchtime? How embarrassing.

Katydid23... you don't need to get steamed. It's like when kids in school call each other "weird." Yes, its all characterization. People "characterize" when they want to manipulate. When they are insecure and want to steer thought.

This is a site that focuses on justice for people without a voice, I think....? People who have been endangered by kidnapping, molestation, murder.... Ordering a pizza for a kid... pfffffft.

Later therapy session: when I was a kid *sniff sniff* my mom ordered me too many pizza's.... oh the horror!!!
 
Max was indeed subjected to Jonah and Dina's volatile relationship. This according to Dina.

Snip- Dina called the same night, reporting a dog attack. On the following day, she told police the dog had injured her before while Jonah “makes little to no effort to stop the dog,” according to a report.

Dina also submitted a two-page letter, describing Jonah as temperamental. She said the incident began over a disagreement with their child’s soiled bedding and that Jonah cursed at her in front of their child
.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Details-Shed-on-Shacknai-Divorce.html#ixzz2eDCv3PfV

Does anyone have that letter in full? And have the other court documents about the domestic abuse been released? All these incidents to me are very pertinent in this case because they show what was going on in their household for years and the animosity between Dina and Jonah - which did not seem to end with the divorce.

As far as the food and Max, it is Dina who made this a public issue by nearly claiming it was child abuse to have him eat healthy and portraying that she was a loving/fun mother BECAUSE she had a candy drawer amongst other things. It has nothing to do with kids occasionally eating candy or sometimes eating pizza.


Dina had other concerns. Max, a voracious eater known to dip liberally into the candy drawer, suddenly became food-neurotic, eating little of his meals or none at all. Dina suspected that Rebecca – later described as a “keep-fit fanatic” by tabloid website Radaronline.com – was micro-managing Max’s diet. She maintains that food was so controlled under Rebecca’s watch that Etxxx sometimes asked his biological mom to bring him snacks.
http://www.citieswestsites.com/valley-news/548-boy-interrupted

I'm not finding the above credible. Besides, it appears that Jonah and Rebecca probably shared the same eating habits.

Some things have been said here as fact that I question:


Originally Posted by DeDee
Dina's reference to Maxie being the peacekeeper referred to their, Dina and Maxie's, relationship with Rebecca and not a reference to Maxie, Diana and Jonah.

I don't remember reading anywhere that Max as peacekeeper had to do with Dina and Max's relationship with Rebecca. Is there a link for that?


That is not correct about Jonah. Maxie's father formally requested a review, rather, a new investigation by the AG into the deaths; however, his request was denied.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-de...etter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097

We have discussed Jonah request quite a bit before so I think you are either misunderstanding it or mischaracterizing it. Maybe someone would be kind enough to summarize.

BBM
Maxfield Jonah Shackani was Dina's only child. Maxfield Jonah Shackani was Dina's only son.

Dina Shacknai is simply stating the truth. It was an honor to be Maxie's mom. Being the only child is very special. If you lose that one, you are left with none. RZ was in her early thirties and obviously did not want any children.

BBM - how did you come to this conclusion?

Does a candy drawer equate to being an abusive parent?

I think I've answered that.

Is there evidence that Maxie was ever around when Jonah and Dina were arguing during their documented domestic disputes?

The answer (above), is YES.


I think much of this is all relevant to the lawsuit for the reasons I mentioned above, 'they show what was going on in their household for years and the animosity between Dina and Jonah - which did not seem to end with the divorce....' and because many of Dina media appearance, actions, and the unsubstantiated claims about Rebecca made in the 'Boy Interrupted' article (written by Dina's friend) depict her animosity toward Rebecca (and more about Dina herself than she probably realizes).
 
Why would Rebecca be the one who controlled what Max ate? While in the custody of his father, his father was supposed to be the one with such control. Max did die while in the sole care of RZ so I don't share your opinion that his bereaved mother has blown anything out of proportion.

JMO

Are you suggesting that only Rebecca controlled what Max ate in the home? Incredible that Rebecca had all this control and Jonah none. Not unbelievable.

Jonah is in great shape physically, and a self described health nut. Jonah is in amazing shape for a man in their 30's, let alone his 50's.

Could it be that Jonah was concerned with lots of candy and junk food being eaten at Dina's house?

In this age of increased childhood obesity this could be real concern for a healthy father, having an overweight ex wife, feeding their child sugary garbage.
 
Does anyone have that letter in full? And have the other court documents about the domestic abuse been released? All these incidents to me are very pertinent in this case because they show what was going on in their household for years and the animosity between Dina and Jonah - which did not seem to end with the divorce.

I think much of this is all relevant to the lawsuit for the reasons I mentioned above, 'they show what was going on in their household for years and the animosity between Dina and Jonah - which did not seem to end with the divorce....' and because many of Dina media appearance, actions, and the unsubstantiated claims about Rebecca made in the 'Boy Interrupted' article (written by Dina's friend) depict her animosity toward Rebecca (and more about Dina herself than she probably realizes).


<snipped for clarity>

I totally agree that the domestic violence reports between Dina and Jonah should all be entered into evidence for the WDS as they show that both Dina and Jonah had behavioral proclivities towards volatile, rage-filled tempers and physically violent assaults of other people. And we know that a pattern of past behaviors predict similar future behaviors.

In other words, some violent person(s) viciously and vindictively tortured and murdered Rebecca so the violent behavioral patterns of Dina and Jonah are VERY relevant to the Zahau case.
 
Why would Rebecca be the one who controlled what Max ate? While in the custody of his father, his father was supposed to be the one with such control. Max did die while in the sole care of RZ so I don't share your opinion that his bereaved mother has blown anything out of proportion.

JMO

Hi MyBelle!

Rebecca was responsible for caring for Maxie when Jonah was working or away. Rebecca did quit her job to help take care of Jonah's kids. Some like to call her "the babysitter". I believe Rebecca in the role of caretaker likely controlled what Max ate while under her supervision.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I know I'm in the minority with this position but.......

Jonah may have been all too willing to give up his car if, in doing so, it assisted the twins in doing their dirty deed. Then his problem was taken care of by proxy. Yes, my opinion speaks to the perhaps misguided belief that others were there the fateful day poor Maxie fell and Rebecca was about to tell the truth and not cover up any longer. I know it's not a popular theory but I can't get past that belief. I believe he is a master manipulator.

IMO: JS could have framed RZ to protect his other two children. "Facts" about their when and whereabouts that morning are as murky as JS himself.
 




Some things have been said here as fact that I question:



I don't remember reading anywhere that Max as peacekeeper had to do with Dina and Max's relationship with Rebecca. Is there a link for that?




We have discussed Jonah request quite a bit before so I think you are either misunderstanding it or mischaracterizing it. Maybe someone would be kind enough to summarize.

BBM


BBM - how did you come to this conclusion?



I think I've answered that.



The answer (above), is YES.


I think much of this is all relevant to the lawsuit for the reasons I mentioned above, 'they show what was going on in their household for years and the animosity between Dina and Jonah - which did not seem to end with the divorce....' and because many of Dina media appearance, actions, and the unsubstantiated claims about Rebecca made in the 'Boy Interrupted' article (written by Dina's friend) depict her animosity toward Rebecca (and more about Dina herself than she probably realizes).


"I don't remember reading anywhere that Max as peacekeeper had to do with Dina and Max's relationship with Rebecca. Is there a link for that?"

I did not recall it either thus requested the link.

We have discussed Jonah request quite a bit before so I think you are either misunderstanding it or mischaracterizing it. Maybe someone would be kind enough to summarize.

No, but thanks anyway. I've read the letters exchanged.

"... RZ was in her early thirties and obviously did not want any children."

BBM - how did you come to this conclusion?

At 32yo, RZ was unmarried and utilized birth control per her AR. RZ did not publically claim any children although she did tell the kennel owner that XZ, her daughter, was injured. RZ allowed a 6yo child to become fatally injured while he was in her care. No matter the role or title assigned to her, Max, at that point in time, was her sole responsibility. It is clear RZ did not want children.

I think much of this is all relevant to the lawsuit for the reasons I mentioned above, '

Maxie's diet may not be pertinent to the lawsuit unless the control over healthy foods went too far. A wrongful death judge will not measure the harm of eating a pizza against the defendant, DS. Whereas, the same judge may be quite interested in RZs control issues pertaining to Maxie.

The mutual animosity is definitely germane to the case. Rebecca had a little 6yo problem with DS. With Maxie gone, Dina would be out of her life, so why was she so angry she killed herself?
 
At 32yo, RZ was unmarried and utilized birth control per her AR. RZ did not publically claim any children although she did tell the kennel owner that XZ, her daughter, was injured. RZ allowed a 6yo child to become fatally injured while he was in her care. No matter the role or title assigned to her, Max, at that point in time, was her sole responsibility. It is clear RZ did not want children.



The mutual animosity is definitely germane to the case. Rebecca had a little 6yo problem with DS. With Maxie gone, Dina would be out of her life, so why was she so angry she killed herself?

Snipped by me

In response to the first sentence I bolded:
No one "allows" a child, adult, pet, etc to "become fatally injured while he is in her (someones) care" when an accident occurs. Accidents unfortunately happen every day. I suppose the only thing Rebecca could have done would be to watch Max like a hawk the entire time she was with him. This would mean no bathroom trips or anything else unless Max went with her. Perhaps his father should have taken Max with him to the "gym" since apparently he had made an agreement with Dina that "Rebecca could not be left alone with Max when any of her family was also present".

In response to the second sentence I bolded:
No matter which way anyone wants to slice it Max was NOT Rebecca's "sole responsibility" at the time of his tragic accident. Rebecca was also responsible for her younger sister during that time.

In response to the third sentence I bolded:
Short answer, she wasn't and she didn't. There has been no credible motive provided that Rebecca committed suicide. In fact the facts of the case prove credible motive for someone to murder her. Fortunately for whomever that was, LE was willing to wrap up the case without following through with a thorough and complete investigation. Thankfully her family is not willing to let that travesty slide and have been keeping her story in the news and taking the proper steps to find justice for her.

MOO
 
Snipped by me

In response to the first sentence I bolded:
No one "allows" a child, adult, pet, etc to "become fatally injured while he is in her (someones) care" when an accident occurs. Accidents unfortunately happen every day. I suppose the only thing Rebecca could have done would be to watch Max like a hawk the entire time she was with him. This would mean no bathroom trips or anything else unless Max went with her. Perhaps his father should have taken Max with him to the "gym" since apparently he had made an agreement with Dina that "Rebecca could not be left alone with Max when any of her family was also present".

In response to the second sentence I bolded:
No matter which way anyone wants to slice it Max was NOT Rebecca's "sole responsibility" at the time of his tragic accident. Rebecca was also responsible for her younger sister during that time.

In response to the third sentence I bolded:
Short answer, she wasn't and she didn't. There has been no credible motive provided that Rebecca committed suicide. In fact the facts of the case prove credible motive for someone to murder her. Fortunately for whomever that was, LE was willing to wrap up the case without following through with a thorough and complete investigation. Thankfully her family is not willing to let that travesty slide and have been keeping her story in the news and taking the proper steps to find justice for her.

MOO
IMO, DeDee, aka dina or one of her friends, wants us all to believe that XZ was Rebecca's daughter in a further attempt to make Rebecca out to be a horrible person.........I know for fact that XZ was not Rebecca's daughter........
 
I thought it might be helpful if we all get up to speed on the Judge in the civil case:

Thomas J.Whelan

*He was Judge in the Betty Broderick trial.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-11-20/local/me-62_1_elisabeth-broderick

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-11-24/news/mn-491_1_murder-trial

Zahau v Shacknai docket filing

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/casdce/3:2013cv01624/419200/

*Judge Whelan is a federal judge, appointed for life.*

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_judge"]United States federal judge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

http://www.fjc.gov/servlet/nGetInfo?jid=2807&cid=999&ctype=na&instate=na

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biographical_Directory_of_Federal_Judges"]Biographical Directory of Federal Judges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_J._Whelan_(judge)

http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=186
**A couple of interesting comments here

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4722405/Judge-Thomas-J-Whelan-Communications-with-Chambers-A-Letters

Example of a civil case Judge Whelan presided over. (And yes, I know this is not a wrongful death case-- just an example of a civil case where he allowed the case to proceed.)

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/02/23/24963.htm

Zack Aaronson launched a five-pronged attack on Vital Pharm, asserting two claims based on the drinks' alleged dangers and deceptive marketing, a claim for fraudulent concealment of the risks and two breach-of-warranty claims.

U.S. District Judge Thomas J. Whelan allowed all but the first two claims to survive, saying Aaronson presented enough evidence at this stage to proceed.

A note on his salary and income:

Whelan collects two public pensions in addition to his salary: $42,414 annually from the County of San Diego and $44,433 from the state’s judicial retirement system, according to his financial disclosure filing for 2010. Federal district judges currently make $174,000 a year

Read more: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2012/jan/18/radar-double-dipping/#ixzz2eSu8nUkt


http://www.law360.com/judges/judge-thomas-j-whelan
 
Well, just my opinion, but from the looks of this Judge's history, "this ain't his first rodeo", KWIM?

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he sure seems like the kind of Judge that would be inclined to let this thing move forward. After reading up a little on his career and some of his cases, I think he will not be easy to persuade to dismiss the case.

Somebody said yesterday that they think Dina, Nina, and Adam aren't worried at all about this case. (Yikes!)

Now that I've read up a little on this Judge, I think all three of them should be wetting their pants over this. Anybody with some sense would be worried sick over this lawsuit, IMO.

(As well as cutting back on the Starbucks and adding to their penny jar, and Rainy Day Attorney Fee Fund, because this won't be cheap to defend, IMO.)

This Judge, IMO, does not suffer fools lightly. This is gonna get very interesting, IMO!

Bring on discovery and depositions. It's time.
 
Snipped by me

In response to the first sentence I bolded:
No one "allows" a child, adult, pet, etc to "become fatally injured while he is in her (someones) care" when an accident occurs. Accidents unfortunately happen every day. I suppose the only thing Rebecca could have done would be to watch Max like a hawk the entire time she was with him. This would mean no bathroom trips or anything else unless Max went with her. Perhaps his father should have taken Max with him to the "gym" since apparently he had made an agreement with Dina that "Rebecca could not be left alone with Max when any of her family was also present".

In response to the second sentence I bolded:
No matter which way anyone wants to slice it Max was NOT Rebecca's "sole responsibility" at the time of his tragic accident. Rebecca was also responsible for her younger sister during that time.

In response to the third sentence I bolded:
Short answer, she wasn't and she didn't. There has been no credible motive provided that Rebecca committed suicide. In fact the facts of the case prove credible motive for someone to murder her. Fortunately for whomever that was, LE was willing to wrap up the case without following through with a thorough and complete investigation. Thankfully her family is not willing to let that travesty slide and have been keeping her story in the news and taking the proper steps to find justice for her.

MOO

Greetings, TorisMom.

* In response to the 1st sentence bolded by me:

Fatal accidents involving a six year old child falling over the second floor banister most certainly do not occur every day.

* In response to the 2nd sentence bolded by me:

Indeed, there was no other adult watching Maxie at the time except Rebecca. Didn't RZ, according to her own statement, order XZ to take a shower while Maxie would clean his room? Rebecca may have been supervising XZ, too, but supervising Max was the responsibility of Rebecca and no one else.

* In response to the 3rd sentence bolded by me:

LE provided an acceptable motive for suicide. Guilt.


However, to the contrary, I do not feel that RZ held guilt. She may have been angry bc Jonah did not believe her various versions about Maxie's fall. She may have been angry bc she and Jonah were done. He didn't even go to the mansion as she laid on his courtyard lawn. It would appear that nothing was more important than being with his precious son. I digress. RZ may have been angry bc Dina, Nina, AS, MZL, and Jonah were asking for clarification regarding Maxie. Her world, as she knew it, was suddenly crashing to a halt. That's motive for suicide.

The startling site AS stumbled upon hanging from the Juliet balcony was quite dramatic. And that is an understatement. Jonah did not dash home to see about his gf not even as AS was cooperating with the LDT. RZs dramatic habit of wearing pretty colored shades of eye shadow created pretty dramatic effects. Jonah probably liked that about her. If RZ was controlling then Jonah probably liked that about her, too. After all, he is an astute businessman.

By painting the door, RZ made certain that if JS did arrive home unexpectedly, he would see the message and follow the red suicide rope. Otherwise, good ole AS would have to be the one to discover her nude body when he awoke in the morning.

And to top it off, RZ attempted to make her flagrant suicide look like a murder all the while Jonah's son lay dying in PICU. That is betraying the two years Jonah lived with her. That's brutal revenge. She tried to implicate others in her death by making her suicide look suspicious.

Her death was investigated as a homicide. The evidence only led investigators straight to Rebecca.

If the teenaged children of JS's did not care all that much for RZ or disrespected her, as has been alluded to on the threads, perhaps it was bc they were humiliated and embarrassed by her arrest record for shoplifting. Even though she paid society for her crime, it is difficult to explain to teenagers so they possess an understanding of why a grown adult would steal a grand worth of jewelry.

imo, of course
 
Greetings, TorisMom.

* In response to the 1st sentence bolded by me:

Fatal accidents involving a six year old child falling over the second floor banister most certainly do not occur every day.

* In response to the 2nd sentence bolded by me:

Indeed, there was no other adult watching Maxie at the time except Rebecca. Didn't RZ, according to her own statement, order XZ to take a shower while Maxie would clean his room? Rebecca may have been supervising XZ, too, but supervising Max was the responsibility of Rebecca and no one else.

* In response to the 3rd sentence bolded by me:

LE provided an acceptable motive for suicide. Guilt.


However, to the contrary, I do not feel that RZ held guilt. She may have been angry bc Jonah did not believe her various versions about Maxie's fall. She may have been angry bc she and Jonah were done. He didn't even go to the mansion as she laid on his courtyard lawn. It would appear that nothing was more important than being with his precious son. I digress. RZ may have been angry bc Dina, Nina, AS, MZL, and Jonah were asking for clarification regarding Maxie. Her world, as she knew it, was suddenly crashing to a halt. That's motive for suicide.

The startling site AS stumbled upon hanging from the Juliet balcony was quite dramatic. And that is an understatement. Jonah did not dash home to see about his gf not even as AS was cooperating with the LDT. RZs dramatic habit of wearing pretty colored shades of eye shadow created pretty dramatic effects. Jonah probably liked that about her. If RZ was controlling then Jonah probably liked that about her, too. After all, he is an astute businessman.

By painting the door, RZ made certain that if JS did arrive home unexpectedly, he would see the message and follow the red suicide rope. Otherwise, good ole AS would have to be the one to discover her nude body when he awoke in the morning.

And to top it off, RZ attempted to make her flagrant suicide look like a murder all the while Jonah's son lay dying in PICU. That is betraying the two years Jonah lived with her. That's brutal revenge. She tried to implicate others in her death by making her suicide look suspicious.

Her death was investigated as a homicide. The evidence only led investigators straight to Rebecca.

If the teenaged children of JS's did not care all that much for RZ or disrespected her, as has been alluded to on the threads, perhaps it was bc they were humiliated and embarrassed by her arrest record for shoplifting. Even though she paid society for her crime, it is difficult to explain to teenagers so they possess an understanding of why a grown adult would steal a grand worth of jewelry.

imo, of course

BBM: Excuse me, but it is rather natural for children, especially girls, to not care for their father's significant other. I have been there myself. She is not their mother. If you know anything about blended families, this wouldn't be news to you.

Its quite a leap to suggest that GS and ES were humiliated and embarrassed by RZ arrest record for shoplifting. If that is true, they must have also been humiliated by all of DS dramatic outbursts, listed in this forum many times.

Explain throwing yourself on the hood of a car to teenagers!

:rolleyes:
 
DeDee, it's pretty obvious you have extremely strong emotions about Rebecca, and every aspect of this case. I don't agree with most of what you post, but I'm glad that this little community we have here at WS is someplace that you feel comfortable expressing those extreme emotions.

I hope you can find some peace.
 
San Diego's Public Offices have been undergoing a major facelift (more like total surgical makeovers and removals!)
 
snipped by me.

The startling site AS stumbled upon hanging from the Juliet balcony was quite dramatic. And that is an understatement. Jonah did not dash home to see about his gf not even as AS was cooperating with the LDT. RZs dramatic habit of wearing pretty colored shades of eye shadow created pretty dramatic effects. Jonah probably liked that about her. If RZ was controlling then Jonah probably liked that about her, too. After all, he is an astute businessman.

BBM. Maybe it's just me, but of the many pictures I've now seen of Rebecca - the last thing on my mind would be to zero in on her eyeshadow. I personally have never worn bright eyeshadow - but I probably would if it fit my complexion. What I see is a gorgeous woman who is very fit. Why pick apart her makeup which is very tastefully done? It doesn't seem at all dramatic within the realm of her skin tone.

This theme of degrading Rebecca's makeup is really hard for me to understand and I can't help but feel it has a racist aspect to it. Why is this poor woman's makeup so impactful for those who believe she committed suicide? I'm just not getting it.
 
BBM. Maybe it's just me, but of the many pictures I've now seen of Rebecca - the last thing on my mind would be to zero in on her eyeshadow. I personally have never worn bright eyeshadow - but I probably would if it fit my complexion. What I see is a gorgeous woman who is very fit. Why pick apart her makeup which is very tastefully done? It doesn't seem at all dramatic within the realm of her skin tone.

This theme of degrading Rebecca's makeup is really hard for me to understand and I can't help but feel it has a racist aspect to it. Why is this poor woman's makeup so impactful for those who believe she committed suicide? I'm just not getting it.

Someone's going mad with wild exaggerations. Why anyone would equate the mere color of "eyeshadow" on Rebecca as being a "dramatic habit" is beyond ludicrous. So if someone wears colored toenails that means they possess dramatic habits? If we use that absurd reasoning, how about Dina's blood-red lipstick then?

What would be relevant, however, to demonstrate a "dramatic habit" which by definition means, repeated patterns of melodramatic behaviors, are actions such as:
1) Dina's jumping and sprawling atop Jonah's moving car in her irrational attempt to stop him from driving away;
2) Dina hollering at the top of her lungs to Jonah, "You can't leave me!";
3) Dina getting in a physical and verbal altercation with Jonah about Max's bed-wetting and then reported that she got scratches on her body and took pics of these presumed scratches from either Jonah or Jonah's dog;
4) Jonah stating that Dina put her hands around his neck in an attempt to strangle him during a violent fight;
5) the content of behavioral violence of Dina and/or Jonah in the numerous domestic violence reports that spanned over 5-years;
6) any reports or testimonies by witnesses to physical and verbal altercations between Dina and another person over her adult life.
 

Thanks for this information K_Z! It's very encouraging to see such an experienced, fair judge has been assigned to this case. His work presiding over the Betty Broderick trial was commendable. He kept it on track by not allowing the defendant and her counsel to manipulate the process of the trial and kept media manipulation of public opinion to a minimum. Both were important defense strategies that attempted to divert attention from the incriminating facts surrounding the murders.

Based on his past reputation, it seems unlikely Justice Whelan will allow any attempts to distract or manipulate this trial. It will certainly be interesting to follow and I hope they set a date soon.
 

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