Ethiopian Air ET302, Boeing 737 crashes - 157 souls - 10 March 2019

[Justice101]

There is huge pressure on the United States to do the same now if they don’t it will look very bad. How can you continue flying this aircraft when practically every other country in the world has banned it?

I wonder what evidence Canada has reviewed to reach the decision.

From Airliners it is being reported that Germany is going to do the analysis of the flight data recorders.

It's most like CYA. If there happened to be any other crash of this plane FOR ANY REASON over the next month, they would have to explain that to the public.

 

[gregjrichards]

No bodies were recovered from the wreckage of the doomed Ethiopian Airline'sBoeing plane, it today emerged.

Investigators at the crash site have scoured through debris of the Boeing 737 Max 8 since Sunday's tragedy .

No bodies found in wreckage of doomed Ethiopian Airline's Boeing 737 Max 8

I am struggling to understand this was the force of the crash so great that no human remains survived?

 

[dotr]

No bodies were recovered from the wreckage of the doomed Ethiopian Airline'sBoeing plane, it today emerged.

Investigators at the crash site have scoured through debris of the Boeing 737 Max 8 since Sunday's tragedy .

No bodies found in wreckage of doomed Ethiopian Airline's Boeing 737 Max 8

I am struggling to understand this was the force of the crash so great that no human remains survived?

Rbbm.
Nocookies
"The black boxes from a Boeing 737 MAX 8 plane that crashed in Ethiopia, killing 157 people, will be sent to Germany for analysis, an Ethiopian Airlines spokesman says.

And no bodies will be recovered from the site where Flight 302 crashed, the airline's spokesman said on Wednesday, because only fragmented remains survived the impact.

"There were no bodies," he told Reuters."

 

[gregjrichards]

Rbbm.
Nocookies
"The black boxes from a Boeing 737 MAX 8 plane that crashed in Ethiopia, killing 157 people, will be sent to Germany for analysis, an Ethiopian Airlines spokesman says.

And no bodies will be recovered from the site where Flight 302 crashed, the airline's spokesman said on Wednesday, because only fragmented remains survived the impact.

"There were no bodies," he told Reuters."

How awful for the victims families it is going to take time to identify all the remains.

Thankfully the United States has now grounded the plane.

 

[watcher9]

President Trump just announced on TV that the 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 are being grounded immediately. Any of these planes still in the air will be grounded upon landing.

 

[jggordo]

They are reporting now that US will ground these aircraft. Link to follow.

 

[dotr]

Canadians connected to plane crash victims arrive in Ethiopia, but identifying remains could take weeks | CBC News
"Five groups of Canadians connected to victims of the Ethiopian Airlines crash have now arrived in Addis Ababa, a senior Canadian government official told CBC News on Wednesday.

The official said the process to identify the remains is "at an early stage" and is "extremely complicated," and it could take weeks. Families hoping to return home next week to repatriate their loved ones may be disappointed."

"The search may be complicated by the sheer number of different parties involved.

On Tuesday, CBC News saw groups at the site from: Boeing headquarters in the U.S., the Ethiopian Red Cross, Ethiopian Police, Ethiopian Airlines, a team from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and a number of other small groups."
"Ethiopian Airlines, for its part, said it will take five days to clear the site and return remains to families."

 

[human]

$$$$$$ law$uits will and would kill the company. I am $ure that i$ why they were finally grounded

 

[dotr]

Must be nerve-wracking for those still in the air to learn of this news.rbbm.
U.S. to ground all Boeing 737 Max 8 planes after crash
"President Donald Trump says the U.S. is issuing an emergency order grounding all Boeing 737 Max 8 and Max 9 aircraft in the wake of a crash of an Ethiopian Airliner that killed 157 people."
"He says any plane currently in the air will go to its destination and then be grounded."

 

[dotr]

There is huge pressure on the United States to do the same now if they don’t it will look very bad. How can you continue flying this aircraft when practically every other country in the world has banned it?

I wonder what evidence Canada has reviewed to reach the decision.

From Airliners it is being reported that Germany is going to do the analysis of the flight data recorders.

rbbm.
Canada issues safety notice for Boeing 737 Max 8s
"Canadian Transport Minister Marc Garneau said a comparison of vertical fluctuations found a "similar profile" to the Lion Air crash that killed 187 people in October.

Garneau emphasized that the data is not conclusive but crossed a threshold that prompted Canada to bar the Max 8. He said the new information indicated that the Ethiopian Airliner jet's automatic system kicked in to force the nose of the aircraft down after computer software determined it was too high. He said that in the case of the Lion Air crash off Indonesia, the pilot fought against computer software that wanted to drop the nose of the plane."


"So if we look at the profile, there are vertical fluctuations, in the vertical profile of the aircraft and there were similarities in what we saw," Garneau said. "But I would repeat once again. This is not the proof that is the same root problem. It could be something else."

 

[squid]

This map shows all the 737 Max flights currently over US airspace

 

[gregjrichards]

“On March 13, 2019, the investigation of the ET302 crash developed new information from the wreckage concerning the aircraft's configuration just after takeoff that, taken together with the newly refined data from satellite-based tracking of the aircraft's flight path, indicates some similarities between ET302 and JT610....."

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Emergency_Order.pdf

 

[gregjrichards]

$$$$$$ law$uits will and would kill the company. I am $ure that i$ why they were finally grounded

Boeing will survive this crisis their reputation will take a battering and orders for the Max will be lost but they will survive in the long term. There will be numerous lawsuits and possibly substantial compensation to airlines around the world.

 

[gregjrichards]

An avid surfer from New Jersey who was dedicated to saving the environment has been identified as one of the eight Americans killed in the horror Ethiopian Airlines crash over the weekend.

Matt Vecere's heartbroken family released a statement confirming his death on Tuesday, saying that he 'would be missed by many'.

'Matt was passionate about the environment, civil rights, social and environmental justice, and advocating for those less fortunate,' his family said, according to NBC10.

'His passion turned to direct action, rolling up his sleeves to serve causes where he could make a tangible difference. He volunteered countless hours with charitable organizations, at community events, and with numerous relief efforts after natural disasters.

Avid surfer known for his charity work is identified as one of 8 Americans killed in Ethiopia crash | Daily Mail Online

May Matt Vecere Rest In Peace.

So many wonderful good people have died in this terrible tragedy. It is desperately sad.

 

[Vern]

I know I posted the other day about my immediate concern for a Canadian friend now working with the United Nations (who is safe) who frequently travels this route. But, it turns out that a co-worker and fellow soldier was aboard.

For my US friends here, he served your nation with honour and professionalism. He will ne missed by us.

Now that official word is out, Captain Antoine Lewis, a United States Army Exchange Officer who was working with us here in Ottawa at Canadian Joint Operations Command Headquarters in our J4 Plans (Expeditionary) Cell has been lost as a result of the tragedy befallen Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. So many lives, so many families, so many countries, so much loss and grieving. My thoughts and prayers and deepest condolences are with Yalena and Antoine Jr. Lest we forget.

Antoine Lewis, U.S. Army Captain From Matteson, Killed In Ethiopian Airlines Crash

 

[dotr]

I know I posted the other day about my immediate concern for a Canadian friend now working with the United Nations (who is safe) who frequently travels this route. But, it turns out that a co-worker and fellow soldier was aboard.

For my US friends here, he served your nation with honour and professionalism. He will ne missed by us.

Now that official word is out, Captain Antoine Lewis, a United States Army Exchange Officer who was working with us here in Ottawa at Canadian Joint Operations Command Headquarters in our J4 Plans (Expeditionary) Cell has been lost as a result of the tragedy befallen Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. So many lives, so many families, so many countries, so much loss and grieving. My thoughts and prayers and deepest condolences are with Yalena and Antoine Jr. Lest we forget.

Antoine Lewis, U.S. Army Captain From Matteson, Killed In Ethiopian Airlines Crash

So sad.
"Lewis was on vacation in Africa, taking a flight from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to Nairobi, Kenya, when Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crashed on Sunday, killing everyone on board.

Antoine Lewis, a U.S. Army captain, was among 157 people killed when Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crashed near Addis Ababa on March 10, 2019. (Photo supplied to CBS)"

 

[ElleElle]

No bodies were recovered from the wreckage of the doomed Ethiopian Airline'sBoeing plane, it today emerged.

Investigators at the crash site have scoured through debris of the Boeing 737 Max 8 since Sunday's tragedy .

No bodies found in wreckage of doomed Ethiopian Airline's Boeing 737 Max 8

I am struggling to understand this was the force of the crash so great that no human remains survived?

Very likely, since Lion Air crashed in water?

 

[Tripod]

Very likely, since Lion Air crashed in water?

I'm a little confused because I did see a couple of photos shortly after the Ethiopian crash, showing men picking up body bags. with a number of body bags awaiting pick-up. I'll admit at the time I saw those pics, I did wonder how a body could survive in an event that appeared so terribly forceful. Now I'm wondering if those pics I saw were from some other incident?
Regardless, I'm glad that the U.S. has joined in grounding these planes and hope further answers can come relatively quickly. Boeing will survive, though hurt, as has already been mentioned. God rest the souls of the lost.

 

[MsMarple]

If his sentiment is that automated systems have become relied upon too heavily then I wholeheartedly agree with him.

Discussion has been ongoing for years in the American press that as aircraft flight becomes more automated pilots are trained less to know how to fly a plane manually. What happens when the automated systems fail? Technology is not infallible.

I actually agree with your sentiment. It's what Trump said that I vehemently disagree with. It's not about technology being too complicated but rather pilot proficiency being lacking.

What Trump said was:
"Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

....needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!"
Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) | Twitter

What stuck in my craw was Trump saying "...often old and simpler is far better," and "All of this for great cost yet very little gain."

He implies that the "old" ways are better and the gains (of modern technology) are little. This is patently untrue.

Aviation technology has vastly improved flight safety as evidenced by the reduction of crashes due to the introduction of instruments such as Wind Shear Detection Systems (1990s) and Ground Proximity Warning Systems (GPWS, 1970s) along with the more recent improved Terrain Awareness Warning System (TAWS, 2000s) which lowered the number of crashes due to Controlled Flight Into Terrain (CFIT). These and other recently introduced warning systems have increased air safety significantly.

Trump also says that "Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT." That's also false.

As I understand it, this entire fiasco is a result of Boeing making one poor design decision (having just one hardware sensor input to MCAS), together with an assumption that competent pilots would be able to recognize when there was a problem, and hit the cut-off switches. Those cut-off switches exist on every 737, not just the new Max.

What's happening is that worldwide air travel is exploding, and there is a major shortage of pilots. Airlines in other countries are scrambling to find pilots, and using shortcuts to get them in the seats. The pilot of the Ethiopian Airline crash might have had a lot of hours, but he was 28 years old. The co-pilot had only 200 hours, which is insane for that level of responsibility for passenger lives.

Boeing's decision on how to design MCAS assumed competent pilots, period. That's the problem, but it's not easy for them to say, because they need to sell these planes to airlines in emerging countries, with rushed pilot training and pilots who don't know how to fly an aircraft when the automation is off. The fast track to getting a 737 Max seat in a place like Indonesia or Ethiopia doesn't start with learning how to hand-fly a Cessna 172. They start in the simulator and graduate rapidly to being responsible for the lives of 200 people behind them.

So IMO it isn't about needing an MIT degree or doing away with aviation technology but rather needing pilots who have been competently trained in the first place. All MOO.

 

[margarita25]

I'm glad most 737 Max's have been grounded. IMO that's the best thing to do at the moment and hopefully they'll figure out what is going on asap. Might be a bit of an incentive, kwim?

(There’s one thing most people can agree on politically, lol)