Evidence Against Patsy That Most People Have Never Read Before

[azwriter]

Who would leave for another state when their daughter is missing?? So the phone call doesn't come--it's not like they'd say, "Oh well, kidnappers had their chance, I'm outta here now" and head off. Course, I also wonder who'd try to head for another state within an hour of their daughter's body being found, but that's another can of worms.

If the R's had wanted to get rid of the body, they had several hours to do so before calling the cops. I agree with the poster who said JR was probably wondering "how long is it gonna take these idiots to find the body" and so he possibly went and moved it to a more prominent location, not knowing the Fleet had already been in the wine cellar.

A well written common sense post.
I have always believed there was no way Patsy and John could bring themselves to take JonBenet and leave her somewhere far from home. I do think they loved her. And, they were stuck with a dead body. That's what the ransom letter was for - to explain why their dead daughter's body was inside the home.
JMO

 

[azwriter]

rashomon, what are you saying? I am an IDI. I am the one who theorises there was a pedophile ring and I have never sidestepped the RN issue, having always maintained it was written (albeit under duress) by Patsy. My position is that the pedophiles were desperate that the fact that JonBenet had been (accidentally) killed during a session of sexual abuse at their hands, should not be discovered. I have always maintained there was a coverup mastermind who decided they should hide the body, stage a kidnapping and dump the body later somewhere in the mountains as the victim of a kidnapping gone wrong. I have always maintained that Patsy never undressed nor went to sleep in her own bed that night, that she let someone into the house that night who she thought JonBenet was going to be photographed with for a magazine article, that she fell asleep, was woken by that scream and was aware from that time that her daughter had been killed, that she wrote the note and put it there herself at the base of the stairs.
I have a hard time believing Patsy would schedule a photo shoot Christmas night. Especially when you take into account they arrived home from Fleet's home between nine and 10 o'clock; they were to be up early for a trip to meet with other family members the next day; and Patsy was still packing for a family trip on a Disney cruise to follow the visit with family. No doubt JonBenet would be a cranky photo model after a full Christmas day and all the time it would take to doll her up for the photos late at night. Think about it.

 

[azwriter]

:laugh: Simple answer, the intruder was nude. And completely bald!

Thanks for that visual, azwriter!

Just wanted to say I am enjoying your posts, particularly your perspective as a trained journalist on the press release writing style of the ransom note.
QUOTE]

Gosh! Thanks.

 

[IrishMist]

I have a hard time believing Patsy would schedule a photo shoot Christmas night. Especially when you take into account they arrived home from Fleet's home between nine and 10 o'clock; they were to be up early for a trip to meet with other family members the next day; and Patsy was still packing for a family trip on a Disney cruise to follow the visit with family. No doubt JonBenet would be a cranky photo model after a full Christmas day and all the time it would take to doll her up for the photos late at night. Think about it.

I have a hard time with that, too. The Christmas night thing is a whole 'nother quandry for me...

When I'm leaning RDI, I can envision Patsy wanting to touch up JBR's roots so that she'd look her "best" for the upcoming trips, and then things going horribly wrong.

 

[sandraladeda]

A well written common sense post.
I have always believed there was no way Patsy and John could bring themselves to take JonBenet and leave her somewhere far from home. I do think they loved her. And, they were stuck with a dead body. That's what the ransom letter was for - to explain why their dead daughter's body was inside the home.
JMO

I totally agree.

Dumping the body exposed them to the possibility of being seen leaving their home, and as you say, could make it difficult to ever give her a "proper christian burial". If no one ever stumbled on the body, dumped in a ditch or wooded area, how could the R's logically ever lead the search to the actual dump site?

 

[Betsy]

I totally agree.

Dumping the body exposed them to the possibility of being seen leaving their home, and as you say, could make it difficult to ever give her a "proper christian burial". If no one ever stumbled on the body, dumped in a ditch or wooded area, how could the R's logically ever lead the search to the actual dump site?

Excellent point, Sandraladeda.

I truly think, also, that the Ramsey's loved their daughter very much--I've not seen one thing prior to her death, which leads me to believe otherwise or that they were sinister people. I don't believe they woke up Christmas morning planning on killing JB that night. I don't believe they got home from the Whites' and decided to kill her. I truly believe it was an accident that never in their wildest dreams could they imagine happening.

BUT, that said...

After it did happen, I believe they made some bad decisions that, unfortunately, were irreversible. They didn't have a plan on how they were going to kill her and dispose of her body. They had to think that night and make spur of the moment decisions, and my belief is that those decisions were based more on getting themselves out of hot water than making sure their daughter was OK. I would imagine they never thought she would actually die. Their thoughts were probably more like, well, we may have to postpone the lake trip, or the cruise, if JonBenet is not feeling up to it, what with her head injury and all....

But when she died, it was a whole 'nother train of thought. Now, how do they deflect the blame off of themselves? By creating a phantom who snatched their daughter out of her bed and took her away. Hence the ransom note.

But I think you're absolutely right, Sandraladeda...When it came right down to it, maybe they just couldn't leave her out in the cold, alone. They hadn't thought that far in advance, about how they would feel about it, but at the last possible second (remember, time was against them) they had to make a choice. Maybe they chose, keep her at home, where we know she'll be "safe" from animals or whatever.

I don't know....I think I'm getting too far engrossed in this, as I did with the Laci case. My husband was shaking his head last night and saying "Not again...."

 

[IrishMist]

I don't know....I think I'm getting too far engrossed in this, as I did with the Laci case. My husband was shaking his head last night and saying "Not again...."

Too funny! The IrishMister does the same thing. He thought I was wrapped up in the Peterson thing, he should have seen me during OJ!

But every now and again, he'll come into the den, look at me with sadness and say "Honey... it's never going to get solved." (JBR) Then I always point out he doesn't know that, and that you never know.

He's used to me, though. During the Peterson trial, I made him SWEAR that if he ever murders me, not to throw my body in the water. He thinks I'm nuts. But he DID swear not to...

The thing with JBR is that I just can't make up my mind. I think if I could decide on something, and felt I was right, it wouldn't grip me like it does. Sometimes I wish I could be sooo sure like some of the others... I just can't seem to get there. And I think that's why I've been so hooked on this case all this time.

 

[Betsy]

IrishMist, I think the fact that, after nearly 10 years, you're still on the fence, is a testimony to how much you care about finding JonBenet's killer.

If you truly believe that there was no intruder, and that her parents murdered her and covered up their crime, then you are pretty much admitting that this crime will never be solved nor the killer(s) punished in a court of law.

If you believe there may have been an intruder, then at least there is a chance this person is still out there....

 

[IrishMist]

IrishMist, I think the fact that, after nearly 10 years, you're still on the fence, is a testimony to how much you care about finding JonBenet's killer.

I appreciate the compliment, Betsy, I really do. And I truly want the killer to be found. I cried when they arrested Karr. Honest to God, stood right there in the living room and cried. Didn't take long to get my bubble burst, however.
But I gotta tell ya. There are those in one camp or the other that care just as much as I do. Same with other fence sitters. I think the most of us really truly want the killer found/named.

If you truly believe that there was no intruder, and that her parents murdered her and covered up their crime, then you are pretty much admitting that this crime will never be solved nor the killer(s) punished in a court of law.

If you believe there may have been an intruder, then at least there is a chance this person is still out there....

I still have hope. I hope someone speaks out, new forensic tests are helpful, anything. I remember the Martha Moxley case. That got solved. I have hope for this one, still.

 

[Mama-cita]

He's used to me, though. During the Peterson trial, I made him SWEAR that if he ever murders me, not to throw my body in the water. He thinks I'm nuts. But he DID swear not to...

TOO FUNNY! Off topic, but I made my husband promise not to sneak up from behind and catch me off guard like Scooter did (IMHO). I told him, hey if it ever gets that bad, take me head on, no surprises, man to (wo)man and I'll kick your @$$! Talk about thinking I was nuts after that one!!!!!

 

[IrishMist]

TOO FUNNY! Off topic, but I made my husband promise not to sneak up from behind and catch me off guard like Scooter did (IMHO). I told him, hey if it ever gets that bad, take me head on, no surprises, man to (wo)man and I'll kick your @$$! Talk about thinking I was nuts after that one!!!!!

That's too funny. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's nuts!

 

[Chiquita71]

Ned, it was her red blouse/turtleneck that was turned over a year later "brand new"...not the original.

What really irked me was Patsy's response to detectives when asked about her sweater...."you know, Priscilla has one exactly like mine. It could have been hers, you know, I might have been cold at the party and Priscilla offered me her sweater."

GOOD FRIKKIN GRIEF!

Quote Respect Toltec
BBM: what is Patsy saying here? I hear her saying Priscilla has something to do with the death of JB. Right?

This is evidence against Patsy that I have never read before. It makes me think of Cindy in the Caylee Anthony case, she who has been quite willing to name names as the killer of her granddaughter.

Priscilla is not only person John and Patsy threw under the bus. The Whites for example:also much like the Anthony case with Cindy and George: we never see John or Patsy follow up on any accusations. They just make them.

Statement analysis: "It could have been hers, you know, I might have been cold at the party and Priscilla offered me her sweater."

:twocents:
Patsy is a writer and this is a sentence of fiction, by the sheer use of the tenses: could and might. When Patsy is giving other names she is questioned by LE why they have not shared what information they have regarding these suspects of the Ramsey's and she is asked what information she may have. She has no further information.

I think it speaks of cover up that Patsy went so far to explain the sweater(esp. when she did not believe the science of the forensic evidence of course because it said she was guilty), to say Priscilla had one just like it or that maybe Patsy had borrowed the same kind from Priscilla and then to avoid turning (whatever)sweater to LE for a year.

Still my :twocents:
Lawyer: "Patsy we have scientific evidence of fibers from your sweater that shows you (at least)know more about your daughter's death.
PR: "Well, Priscilla has a sweater just like mine, and maybe I borrowed hers?"

Every time evidence points to Patsy she points to someone else. This is how I see this, and what innocent person does this? Names friends as potential suspects in a murder(let alone of their own daughter)and then don't offer anything else to back it up, nor do they follow up on their own accusations.

Time has told that tale.

o/t: (sorry)Where can I read "Patsy's Christmas Message"? Here on WS or elsewhere on the net. TIA.

...JS...(just sleuthing) :innocent:

 

[cynic]

o/t: (sorry)Where can I read "Patsy's Christmas Message"? Here on WS or elsewhere on the net. TIA.

...JS...(just sleuthing) :innocent:

A Christmas Message from the Ramsey Family

With the Christmas season upon us and the anniversary
of JonBenet’s death approaching, we are filled with
many emotions. We, as a family, miss JonBenet's
presence among us as we see the lights, hear the music,
and recall celebrations of Christmases past. We miss
her every day not just today.

On the one hand, we feel like Christmas should be
canceled. Where is there joy? Our Christmas is
forever tainted with the tragedy of her death. And yet
the message rings clear. Had there been no birth of
Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and,
hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again.

As the day of the birth of our Lord and Savior
approaches, we thank all across the nation and around
the world for your continued prayers of concern and
support. It is those prayers that sustain us. We ask
that as you gather with your families and loved ones
this Christmas, be joyful in the celebration of the
birth of Christ, knowing that this is truly the reason, for the season.
We must continue to celebrate the
birth of Christ . . . for our hope of life together
ever after.

Thank you for all you meant to her and mean to as.

With blessing and prayer for a Joyful Holiday
Grace of God's ever present love for the New Year,

John, Patsy, John Andrew, Melinda and Burke

 

[Chiquita71]

Thank you cynic
For the Christmas message!

I also wanted to add, that in reading about this case: I did not understand to what extent John and Patsy gave out names of close friends as suspects.

I feel the same way about the Ramseys throwing friends under the bus as I do about what Cindy Anthony, Casey and her defense team have done re: throwing people under the bus. At the worst, it shows how guilty they really are and at best it shows they are not the good people they would like to portray.

Not good people at all. IMHO.

:twocents:

 

[cynic]

I feel the same way about the Ramseys throwing friends under the bus as I do about what Cindy Anthony, Casey and her defense team have done re: throwing people under the bus. At the worst, it shows how guilty they really are and at best it shows they are not the good people they would like to portray.

Not good people at all. IMHO.

:twocents:

Hey Chiquita, you’re welcome.

I completely agree with you regarding the behavior of the Ramseys, it’s clear that they were quite willing to cast suspicion on anyone with a pulse.

 

[DeeDee249]

Patsy cover her a$$ by saying she MIGHT have borrowed hers. Why would she need to? She ADMITTED to wearing her own similar sweater to the White's that day. And no one seriously would believe that she wouldn't remember borrowing a friend's sweater that day. If it was your child that was murdered that night, you would remember EVERYTHING about that day. Certainly there would be enough other guests there who would recall whether Patsy borrowed Pricilla's sweater.

 

[Chiquita71]

Patsy cover her a$$ by saying she MIGHT have borrowed hers. Why would she need to? She ADMITTED to wearing her own similar sweater to the White's that day. And no one seriously would believe that she wouldn't remember borrowing a friend's sweater that day. If it was your child that was murdered that night, you would remember EVERYTHING about that day. Certainly there would be enough other guests there who would recall whether Patsy borrowed Pricilla's sweater.

Respectfully Quoted DeeDee

Thank you.

I have to say the chair does get in the way, pun intended.

(More trouble with the sweater)
How do you wear the same kind of sweater to someone's house but also have to borrow the one they have that is just like yours? :waitasec:

Even if Patsy borrowed the (a)sweater from Priscilla, that means Patsy had the sweater not Priscilla. If fibers were found that show only the killer could have left them, still it is Patsy who is in possession of said sweater. Is Patsy saying that after giving Patsy her sweater, Priscilla came into the Ramsey's home somehow got the sweater back from Patsy(without her knowing it), put it on and killed JB?
The sweater didn't kill JB. The person wearing the sweater killed JB. Patsy is admitting having possession of the sweater that was worn by the person who killed her daughter. Which is no different than what the scientific evidence is saying: there are fibers from the sweater Patsy was wearing that show she had to have had been present when JB was murdered.

I did not know until this last week or so that the Ramseys did an interview with The National Enquirer in 2000. I was wondering if there was a thread about this here or at FFJ someone could point me to? TIA

...JS...