Evidence Against Patsy That Most People Have Never Read Before

[foxbluff]

"His name is Helgother or Golgother"--lol--agree,they can't get his name straight and this guy supposedly killed their daughter--priceless

Aside from saying his name is Helgother or Gogather, she said it is Helgoth or Golgath!

As though that's not telling us enough, the queen of "I don't know, I don't recall, I don't remember" volunteers that "I understand that he committed suicide on THE 14TH DAY OF FEBRUARY '97"...

IMO, her answers (and lack thereof) defied belief.

 

[Eagle1]

This was about to go off the bottom of the page.

I've already stated an opinion in another thread that I would probably not even care if my answers were good ones or not, in such a situation, just to keep things "fair and balanced" for us fence people.

PR was already on medication, also. Don't know if JR was. We don't know if she was in any shape to answer questions. I do agree her / their answers aren't at all good ones. Who could disagree with that?

 

[leighl]

(Referencing reply # 76 concerning the transcription of Arndt's notes five years after they were recorded.)

Yes I agree, notes should be transcribed ASAP, not five years later. Original impressions are lost/replaced with current prejudices. Things that were not really there could be added.

Anyone who has ever kept a diary can relate to the reading of notes years after they were made, a sense of suprise in details recorded that were initially forgotten, change in perception of how events unfolded.

 

[olive]

Has anyone ever posted regarding the possibility that if RDI, perhaps they did not want the body to be found? Perhaps they were going to dispose of it somewhere after further covering up, like decapitation? The suitcase below the window that was out of place...they were going out of town on a private jet that day. Could her body have been intended as carry-on luggage? They packed it up with her nightgown? Then when Ramsey realized that the police were not going anywhere, and that they could not just take off on a plane to Michigan like planned, he decided to move the body, and later "find" it? Maybe he was stupid enough to believe that when the ransom call didn't come at 10am, that the police would just pack up and leave? Or perhaps when he was sitting there, nervously shaking his leg, he was remembering that they left evidence, fibers, on her body, and therefore he somehow needed to place himself and Patsy with the body in front of investigators?

Very interesting.

 

[kayebee]

Has anyone ever posted regarding the possibility that if RDI, perhaps they did not want the body to be found? Perhaps they were going to dispose of it somewhere after further covering up, like decapitation? The suitcase below the window that was out of place...they were going out of town on a private jet that day. Could her body have been intended as carry-on luggage? They packed it up with her nightgown? Then when Ramsey realized that the police were not going anywhere, and that they could not just take off on a plane to Michigan like planned, he decided to move the body, and later "find" it? Maybe he was stupid enough to believe that when the ransom call didn't come at 10am, that the police would just pack up and leave? Or perhaps when he was sitting there, nervously shaking his leg, he was remembering that they left evidence, fibers, on her body, and therefore he somehow needed to place himself and Patsy with the body in front of investigators?

Very interesting.

I think there's probably a large group of people (including myself) here that believe, they did not plan for the body to be found in the house originally. Rather, the Ramseys planned to fly away shortly after no ransom demand was made, and the body would be found somewhere outside the home some time later, with the Ramseys miles away in Michigan or Atlanta (not sure if I believe they intended to take the body with them in the plane). In the morning light, with events spinning out of control, John realizes that the plan isn't going to work, too much could go wrong, the police aren't going to go away, there's no way to get rid of the body without being found out, and he decides to "discover" the body in the basement.

The discovery of the body in the basement is what makes the ransom note, which was already bizarre and suspicious, superfluous, as well. It makes the case an even bigger head-scratcher, and gives ammunition to the IDI-ers: why would the Ramseys "stage" a kidnapping and then "find" the body in the basement? It makes no sense, so the Ramseys couldn't have done it. The simple fact is, the Ramseys (more likely John on his own) were forced to change the plan after things stopped going the way they anticipated.

Anyway, it explains a lot--why the police don't find the body during the first, cursory search, why Fleet White doesn't see it in the basement that morning, why John, of all the places to begin the search for "anything out of place" begins in the basement (not sure if I would be able to tell what is out of place in my basement), what John is doing during the time Linda Arndt loses track of him that morning, etc.

Karen

 

[BBB167893]

"PR was already on medication, also. Don't know if JR was. We don't know if she was in any shape to answer questions. I do agree her / their answers aren't at all good ones. Who could disagree with that?"

Eagle1, it's one thing to say that was the case during those first few days. But over every single interview? That sets the bell ringing.

"Or perhaps when he was sitting there, nervously shaking his leg, he was remembering that they left evidence, fibers, on her body, and therefore he somehow needed to place himself and Patsy with the body in front of investigators?"

Maybe. Maybe.

 

[sandraladeda]

Has anyone ever posted regarding the possibility that if RDI, perhaps they did not want the body to be found? Perhaps they were going to dispose of it somewhere after further covering up, like decapitation? The suitcase below the window that was out of place...they were going out of town on a private jet that day. Could her body have been intended as carry-on luggage? They packed it up with her nightgown? Then when Ramsey realized that the police were not going anywhere, and that they could not just take off on a plane to Michigan like planned, he decided to move the body, and later "find" it? Maybe he was stupid enough to believe that when the ransom call didn't come at 10am, that the police would just pack up and leave? Or perhaps when he was sitting there, nervously shaking his leg, he was remembering that they left evidence, fibers, on her body, and therefore he somehow needed to place himself and Patsy with the body in front of investigators?

Very interesting.

Don't forget, they had their pilot waiting for them, and they had Burke. How do they explain JB being missing (packed in a suitcase) or wrapped up in a blanket - hard to keep a body in rigor mortis or early stage decomposition from being obvious....

 

[kelly london]

i watched some repeats of prior interviews the ramsey's have done, larry king, for one of them. it suddenly hit me....IS is possible patsy did this whole crime and the coverup AND the note AND her husband, having taken his melatonin, was in a deep sleep and truly knew NOTHING. that brings me to why he so strongly believes patsy is innocent - obviously being married to her, you cannot imagine her committing this crime. being asleep and having no knowlege of what occurred until patsy screamed about finding the note.....just a thought

 

[Darlene733510]

I think they did consider getting the body out of the house, but decided not to for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that they would have been seen, and the second is that if the police did not find the body for a long time they wouldn't be able to get on with their trip.

JR sitting there tapping his foot was probably thinking, "C'mon - find JB so we can get on that plane and get to Hell out of here. What cold calculating people. Their child is dead and off they go.

 

[Jolynna]

Larry King Live's Aug. 20, 2006 compilation of John & Patsy interviews:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/20/lkl.01.html

The Ramseys words do not match known facts. Or what the Ramseys said in the interviews with investigators.

KING: Does the FBI get called in?

J. RAMSEY: We were told the FBI was called, we kept asking where are they, why aren't they here? We were told, well, they're on their way, it takes a couple of hours. And, of course, they never came.

P. RAMSEY: Yes, I did then see her. My friends were -- I was in the TV room and they were -- I said what is it? What is it? And they kept, you know, holding me, wait, I don't know what it is. One of our friends ran into the room and said, we need an ambulance, tried to dial 911, and I kept screaming, what is it? What is it? And, you know, then in just a couple of minutes, then I walked into the living room.

KING: What did the police say? Did they say anything? Did they...


J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

KING: Right. If it was a pedophile, was your daughter sexually abused?

P. RAMSEY: I don't believe there is conclusive evidence of that.


J. RAMSEY: We don't know.

KING: Have you talked to them about -- do they send you the autopsy reports?

J. RAMSEY: No, no.

P. RAMSEY: No.

J. RAMSEY: We've -- the police have not talked to us at all. We don't know what's been done.

KING: The police say -- the police say that you were only -- you accept -- you put guidelines up to the interviews. You'd only be interviewed together. Why?

J. RAMSEY: I don't remember.

P. RAMSEY: I don't remember any guidelines.

KING: Is that not true?

J. RAMSEY: I don't remember.

KING: You didn't give them any guidelines?

J. RAMSEY: The only guideline I remember, the only request that we made -- and this was after a huge gap of mistrust developed -- the police withheld JonBenet's body for burial to try to force us to submit to their terms.

KING: Which were?

J. RAMSEY: We were -- that the three of us be interrogated in the police station before we buried our daughter, and we were horribly offended at that. And this huge gap of distrust developed.

KING: Let me tell you what develops as a father and what other people say, and the reason that I think that you're under this cloud. Most people would say, if I didn't do it and my daughter was killed -- I'm talking as a father, and I don't like to bring myself into it. One, I'll answer any question, I'll take any test, I'll meet with you. I'll be there first thing in the morning. Catch the killer. I'd go nuts. I'd cooperate in every way. As I'd go out with the cops. I'd give them my fingers. I'd give them my...

P. RAMSEY: If you thought... J. RAMSEY: We did do that, Larry.

P. RAMSEY: We did do that.

KING: Here's some of the things the police are saying that was supposed to have happened that didn't: you insisted the interviews be done together, you insisted that they be done in your lawyer's office, that Patsy Ramsey's doctor be present, that the Ramsey attorneys specifies which officer conducts the interview; that you seem to get special treatment; you were given a copy of the ransom note; transcripts of your initial talk with police officers; you were given initial police reports; you were given a list of questions you were going to be asked.

P. RAMSEY: Excuse me.

KING: OK, is any of this true?

P. RAMSEY: The ransom note was in my home.

KING: They meant as evidence. P. RAMSEY: We turned the ransom note over to them. We didn't demand a copy of the ransom note.

KING: This appears like -- in other words, are these statements true?

J. RAMSEY: Well, look, I don't remember totally what is true and isn't true, but this is pettiness.[/QUOTE]

KING: Did you ever give the police a list of people in the neighborhood you thought were suspects?

J. RAMSEY: No.

P. RAMSEY: They asked us for a list of everyone that had been in our home for the past five years.

KING: How about funds?

P. RAMSEY: Getting low, very low. This has taken virtually of our savings and legal expenses and expenses involved with the investigation.

KING: In the book, you write about the suitcase and the open basement window, but the police say you never told them about it.

J. RAMSEY: That's false.

 

[LinasK]

Well everyone is different in how they would react.
However I would either split up or stay with hubby, searching every inch of the house.
From what has been said Patsy didn't do either?

For taking the tape off I would to, but scream for ppl to come down, also saying call 911...I wouldn't move her, for fear something might be broken and make it worse....

That's how I'd react too!

 

[LinasK]

And he responded to that 'shocking discovery' by only being preoccupied in thought and nervously bouncing his leg? Bouncing one' leg is not a sign of shock - it is mostly a sign of impatience. And I'm convinced that, when nervously bouncing his leg, the following thoughts went through John Ramsey's head:

"The police have been in the house for four hours now and haven't found JB in the wine cellar yet. I never thought it possible that these idiots might not discover the body. How can I get them to find her?"

Kinda like in "Crime and Punishment", he can't stand being guilty and getting away with it, so he finally turns himself in!:bang:

 

[Jolynna]

Tricia posted this on FFJ in 2001:

Remember in DOI when Patsy was describing getting up the day after Christmas. Patsy tried to explain why she was in full makeup when the police arrived. I am going from memory here but Patsy said something like : Must put on my makeup in the morning. Mother always said never go anywhere with out your makeup. Makeup goes on first thing before going downstairs....

Prairie Girl pointed out that the picture of Patsy Christmas morning with JonBenet she has no makeup, hair isn't fixed and she looks like crap (that's my opinion).

So Patsy doesn't put makeup on, which is SO important to her, She doesn't put it on when she knows pictures will be taken and people could very well stop by?

But, the next day, her hair is done and all of her makeup on. Yet, she didn't even bother to change her clothes or bathe?

 

[LinasK]

Tricia posted this on FFJ in 2001:

Remember in DOI when Patsy was describing getting up the day after Christmas. Patsy tried to explain why she was in full makeup when the police arrived. I am going from memory here but Patsy said something like : Must put on my makeup in the morning. Mother always said never go anywhere with out your makeup. Makeup goes on first thing before going downstairs....

Prairie Girl pointed out that the picture of Patsy Christmas morning with JonBenet she has no makeup, hair isn't fixed and she looks like crap (that's my opinion).

So Patsy doesn't put makeup on, which is SO important to her, She doesn't put it on when she knows pictures will be taken and people could very well stop by?

Bingo! It's because Patsy was up all night, never went to sleep. Too much staging to do...

 

[azwriter]

We have a person who is a graduated journalist with magna *advertiser censored* laude who can't remember the name of a suspect in her daughters murder.

Some people here try to pass her of as an imbecil who can't answer straight questions about her daughters murder, like she would forget if JB had pineapple or not during the evening. Answering 'ask John' about questions regarding their own hired investigators.

Only explaination is that she coudn't care less as she already knew what happened. Investigators job was just to round up a few suspects to get themselves of the hook, who they find really didn't matter.

Good points tumble. Patsy wasn't an imbecil. She was doing exactly what every good lawyer tells his or her client, don't volunteer any extra information. She wasn't being evasive about her concern for her daughter's death. She was following directions and not giving any information she would have to defend.
Also, as a newspaper reporter (journalist) for over 22 years, I see the ransom letter as looking exactly like the format used for a press release or a news story. Several space for indents of new paragraphs, margins; proof reader symbols (the karot to insert a word); using the particular style a newspaper reporter would use to write numbers as words or numerals, time of day with small letters. Punctuation. Using only one explaination point at the end of a sentence, never two or more. I could go on and on. It's a style you learn to use to prepare copy for an editor or printer and this writing style sticks with you over the years. Many posters have discounted my idea of the format of the ransom letter but it's something I can see using my own life and profession experiences. JMO

 

[LinasK]

Good points tumble. Patsy wasn't an imbecil. She was doing exactly what every good lawyer tells his or her client, don't volunteer any extra information. She wasn't being evasive about her concern for her daughter's death. She was following directions and not giving any information she would have to defend.
Also, as a newspaper reporter (journalist) for over 22 years, I see the ransom letter as looking exactly like the format used for a press release or a news story. Several space for indents of new paragraphs, margins; proof reader symbols (the karot to insert a word); using the particular style a newspaper reporter would use to write numbers as words or numerals, time of day with small letters. Punctuation. Using only one explaination point at the end of a sentence, never two or more. I could go on and on. It's a style you learn to use to prepare copy for an editor or printer and this writing style sticks with you over the years. Many posters have discounted my idea of the format of the ransom letter but it's something I can see using my own life and profession experiences. JMO

AZ, just wondering... what reporters handwrite their stories anymore? Isn't it standard to use a computer to type in your stories???:waitasec:

 

[azwriter]

Most imortantly, if there was an intruder, why weren't the intruder's fibers all over JB and the crime scene?

Supposedly the intruder changed JonBenet's clothes, picked up and carried JonBenet and her blanket, washed JonBenet, molested her, used the garrotte and yet HIS/HER magic fibers failed to float/migrate/attach themselves where they should been found.

If there had been an intruder.

Simple answer, the intruder was nude. And completely bald!
There's no way a person got into that house - was upstairs, downstairs and all around the house without leaving one footprint, one strand of hair, one piece of dirt from a shoe, one string of fabric or absolutely no evidence that person had been there.
Recently a repairman came to my house to fix the automatic garage door. He was here for less than half an hour. He left dusty footprints in the kitchen, the only room he entered and his pen in the garage on the shelf. No physical evidence left behind...impossible!
JMO

 

[azwriter]

AZ, just wondering... what reporters handwrite their stories anymore? Isn't it standard to use a computer to type in your stories???:waitasec:

Reporters do not hand write articles. I never implied that. What I'm saying is if you look at the handwritten ransom letter you will see a close format or layout of how a newspaper article is written onto a computer screen or paper before it goes on to be printed in columns. The ransom letter was hand written. But, there are still long indents, something that a reporter would do, by going in about 8 spaces on a computer or typewriter to begin a new paragraph. Also an article would be typed within wide margains keeping the sentences within the middle of the page. The ransom letter, even though it is hand written, appears on the pages the same way it would be typed by a journalist.
Journalists learn to prepare or type articles in a certain format in order for it to be edited and prepared to be sent on to be made into copy to be printed on broadsheet newsprint. When a reporter is finished writing a story, it is not in columns as it appears in the newspaper you find on your doorstep.
In my opinion whoever hand wrote the ransom letter used the format or layout a reporter would use in typing the story.
Hope that answers your question.

 

[BBB167893]

"IS is possible patsy did this whole crime and the coverup AND the note AND her husband, having taken his melatonin, was in a deep sleep and truly knew NOTHING. that brings me to why he so strongly believes patsy is innocent - obviously being married to her, you cannot imagine her committing this crime. being asleep and having no knowlege of what occurred until patsy screamed about finding the note.....just a thought"

I know of at least two people who think that, kelly-london. One is obviously Det. Thomas. The other, apparently, is Laurence Smith.

 

[PaperDoll]

Simple answer, the intruder was nude. And completely bald!
There's no way a person got into that house - was upstairs, downstairs and all around the house without leaving one footprint, one strand of hair, one piece of dirt from a shoe, one string of fabric or absolutely no evidence that person had been there.
Recently a repairman came to my house to fix the automatic garage door. He was here for less than half an hour. He left dusty footprints in the kitchen, the only room he entered and his pen in the garage on the shelf. No physical evidence left behind...impossible!
JMO

This is one of my reasons why I don't buy into the intruder theory. There would have been some sort of evidence left behind and from what I'm gathering, there were none.. If there were, I'm haven't heard of it..