Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed

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AZlawyer said:
But I'm only killing the buzz I brought into the thread myself, by matching up the sticker backing with the heart shape on the tape! Surely it's OK to kill your OWN buzz, right? :waitasec:
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I was buzzing right along side of you!

I'd rather know the truth/stark reality than find out during the trial. I appreciate your contribution.

Now to go find a substitute buzz in a bottle......
 
faefrost said:
You never know. HHJP may decide that there would not be a strong risk of appeal in letting it in. Alot will depend on JB's motion and whether or not he actually for once came up with some valid state law or case law from an applicable court. The simple claim of "it's unconstitutional" will not wash. HHJP is not a federal judge. he judges matters of Florida law and precedent, not on the constitutionality of things. (Didn't he already remind JB of that regarding some matters concerning the jail? That if he wished to challenge something on constitutional grounds the Federal courthouse was right up the block?).

We can bet that if the SA has or had any plans to use the sticker as evidence they have long ago prepared briefs citing real clear Florida case law to support its use. The SA has been thinking and planning ahead and is more than capable of spotting the obvious potholes in the road. They are using a bit more of a long term strategy than simply reading what old threads we bump here and submitting random motions when we here at WS apparently remind them to. (Which should be a cautionary tale for us around here. We are rather obviously being read and followed by people who we really don't want to be giving advise to. So we should be a little more aware as we type that we might be putting words in someones head, or doing unintended case research for some.)

I still think that HHJP will most likely err on the side of excluding the sticker evidence, unless there are some truly boneheaded references in the defense motion, or the state really makes a stunning rebuttal. There does seem to be a rather clear hole in the documentation regarding the sticker residue. Which is truly a shame as it would be particularly damning evidence at trial.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, HHJP must consider the US Constitution in his rulings, as well as the Constitution of Florida. You will hear him cite the US Sixth Amendment frequently. We have heard previous motions where the Sixth Amendment was utilized in the judge's determination.
Above and beyond the laws of the state are our God given rights (Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness) and our Consitutional rights (ratified by the state delegations).
If JB had LDB on tape stating that she is seeking the DP because KC is Catholic and she hates Catholics, then of course JB can bring a motion to preclude the DP based on a clear violation of KC's First or maybe Fourteenth Amendment right (and I'm sure Florida law covers it in tandem). Now, if JB wanted to have a special prosecutor charge the state attorney with discriminatory pratices, then a federal judge would hear it. AZ'll tell me if I'm wrong.

What HHJP may not do is tell the executive branch of the state (the jail falls under this branch) how to run their business. Nor may he do the job of the legislature, that is, make law from the bench. His job is to apply law, be it federal or state, and the attorneys can use both in their arguments.
The legislature has outlined the role of the executive (the jail) in the Florida Consitution. If JB feels that this section of the Florida Consitution, or certain statutes or rules set forth for the jail violate KC's US Consitutional rights, yeppers, he'd have to take it to the feds.

Again, AZ will tell me if I'm dizzy this morning....
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Baez should be fighting to keep this evidence IN so he can use it to show that the FBI did sloppy work. He should also IMO be making an ally of Roy Kronk for the exact same reason ~ surely it is more valuable to him to say that the OCSO could have retrieved Caylee's body in August than it is for him to make a paper castle out of the possibility that Roy Kronk was involved in the murder.

Just JMO of course, but you know.....if he can poke holes in the jury's trust in the authorities surely it would get him somewhere that's at least 1/2 way plausible.
Click to expand...

SHUSH YOU!!!! Don't go giving the defense good ideas! They read here, you know!
 
Just Jayla said:
Just to clarify, HHJP must consider the US Constitution in his rulings, as well as the Constitution of Florida. You will hear him cite the US Sixth Amendment frequently. We have heard previous motions where the Sixth Amendment was utilized in the judge's determination.
Above and beyond the laws of the state are our God given rights (Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness) and our Consitutional rights (ratified by the state delegations).
If JB had LDB on tape stating that she is seeking the DP because KC is Catholic and she hates Catholics, then of course JB can bring a motion to preclude the DP based on a clear violation of KC's First or maybe Fourteenth Amendment right (and I'm sure Florida law covers it in tandem). Now, if JB wanted to have a special prosecutor charge the state attorney with discriminatory pratices, then a federal judge would hear it. AZ'll tell me if I'm wrong.

What HHJP may not do is tell the executive branch of the state (the jail falls under this branch) how to run their business. Nor may he do the job of the legislature, that is, make law from the bench. His job is to apply law, be it federal or state, and the attorneys can use both in their arguments.
The legislature has outlined the role of the executive (the jail) in the Florida Consitution. If JB feels that this section of the Florida Consitution violates KC's US Consitutional rights, yeppers, he'd have to take it to the feds.

Again, AZ will tell me if I'm dizzy this morning....
Click to expand...

You have just explained the purpose of the United States Supreme Court.

The U.S. Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) trumps everything, including state constitutions.
 
Thanks shotgun9 for pointing us to this article.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html
Docs Show Caylee Evidence Destroyed
Fingerprint Test Apparently Destroyed Evidence Of Heart Sticker On Duct Tape
Tony Pipitone
POSTED: Thursday, September 24, 2009

excerpts:
"Page 9316 of the discovery, obtained by Local 6 before its official release, is a handwritten FBI Laboratory Activity and Communication Log. In it, FBI lab request coordinator Erin P. Martin makes notes of conversations between FBI agents in the field and the lab in Quantico, Va."
"On Dec. 13, two days after the body was found, she describes how Elizabeth K. Fontaine, a forensic examiner in the lab's latent print operations unit, noticed "a heart shape/outline" on the duct tape, but was "unable to see it after powder process." That process is used to lift any fingerprints from materials. No such prints were found on the tape, according to previously released FBI lab reports. "
"But the presence of a heart shape on the tape begs an obvious question: Did the FBI lab photograph the outline of the heart before it was apparently obliterated by the powder process? "
"Martin answers the question with her next notation: "No photo of image." "
"But agents assisting the sheriff's office at the crime scene were clearly intrigued.
Two days later, on Dec. 15, 2008, Martin logs a call from an FBI evidence response team agent working in Orlando: "Agent wanted to know if TEU (the lab's trace evidence unit) saw anything on tape." Martin apparently checks and writes next: "Per TEU: No, didn't see any heart-shaped item." "
"She then checks again with the latent print unit and writes: "Shape/outline was … near end on non-adh(esive) side." "
"And that's the last mention of the heart shape in the five-page FBI communication log, which ends on Dec. 22, 2008"

(clip)

"While a jury will apparently never see the image that Fontaine reported seeing, prosecutors could seek to introduce testimony at trial about the shape or outline of a heart on the duct tape. "

(clip)

"But, Rahter added, all is not lost for the prosecution, because Fontaine could still testify about what she saw."
"“Everybody's a witness, right? So they're either a witness because they've seen something or they know something or they heard something,” Rahter said. “So this person is a person who saw something, so she'll have to testify to it.” "
---------------------------------------
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/fbiexpertevidence.pdf

pg 47 of 86 of PDF

As listed on OCSO Property Form J-60055:
Item 1 – One hair clip – Q200
Note: Plastic, cream colored, heart design
[Analyst Note: During examination of the duct tape found on CAYLEE’s remains, the Lab identified a residue in the perfect shape of a heart indicating that a heart shaped sticker may have been placed on the duct tape. The hair clip is submitted because it has the shape of a heart on it, for whatever processing the Lab deems appropriate.]

-----------------------------------------
Fontaine is listed on Jeff Ashton's list of State Expert witnesses (that have given a Report), and both Fontaine and Erin Martin are listed on the State Witness List, and the Defense has done depositions with both witnesses.

Elizabeth K. Fontaine, FBI Lab - Latent Print Operation Unit - EXPERT -
added Dec 3, 2008 [Defense depo April 2010]


Erin P. Martin - FBI Lab - Evidence Control Unit- Quantico, VA -added Dec 3, 2008 [Defense depo Sept 29, 2010 via Skype]
 
Just Jayla said:
Just to clarify, HHJP must consider the US Constitution in his rulings, as well as the Constitution of Florida. You will hear him cite the US Sixth Amendment frequently. We have heard previous motions where the Sixth Amendment was utilized in the judge's determination.
Above and beyond the laws of the state are our God given rights (Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness) and our Consitutional rights (ratified by the state delegations).
If JB had LDB on tape stating that she is seeking the DP because KC is Catholic and she hates Catholics, then of course JB can bring a motion to preclude the DP based on a clear violation of KC's First or maybe Fourteenth Amendment right (and I'm sure Florida law covers it in tandem). Now, if JB wanted to have a special prosecutor charge the state attorney with discriminatory pratices, then a federal judge would hear it. AZ'll tell me if I'm wrong.

What HHJP may not do is tell the executive branch of the state (the jail falls under this branch) how to run their business. Nor may he do the job of the legislature, that is, make law from the bench. His job is to apply law, be it federal or state, and the attorneys can use both in their arguments.
The legislature has outlined the role of the executive (the jail) in the Florida Consitution. If JB feels that this section of the Florida Consitution, or certain statutes or rules set forth for the jail violate KC's US Consitutional rights, yeppers, he'd have to take it to the feds.

Again, AZ will tell me if I'm dizzy this morning....
Click to expand...

Yep you got it right. :)
 
Just Jayla said:
Just to clarify, HHJP must consider the US Constitution in his rulings, as well as the Constitution of Florida. You will hear him cite the US Sixth Amendment frequently. We have heard previous motions where the Sixth Amendment was utilized in the judge's determination.
Above and beyond the laws of the state are our God given rights (Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness) and our Consitutional rights (ratified by the state delegations).
If JB had LDB on tape stating that she is seeking the DP because KC is Catholic and she hates Catholics, then of course JB can bring a motion to preclude the DP based on a clear violation of KC's First or maybe Fourteenth Amendment right (and I'm sure Florida law covers it in tandem). Now, if JB wanted to have a special prosecutor charge the state attorney with discriminatory pratices, then a federal judge would hear it. AZ'll tell me if I'm wrong.

What HHJP may not do is tell the executive branch of the state (the jail falls under this branch) how to run their business. Nor may he do the job of the legislature, that is, make law from the bench. His job is to apply law, be it federal or state, and the attorneys can use both in their arguments.
The legislature has outlined the role of the executive (the jail) in the Florida Consitution. If JB feels that this section of the Florida Consitution, or certain statutes or rules set forth for the jail violate KC's US Consitutional rights, yeppers, he'd have to take it to the feds.

Again, AZ will tell me if I'm dizzy this morning....
Click to expand...


Well, I was dizzy....there are 3 "t's" in Constitution!
 
Post 138 is a picture of a heart sticker on duct tape. I am sure it says in this thread, I read it a while ago but have not been back: (I was looking through the photo threads)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68989&highlight=caseys+photobucket+pics

is this an actual picture of the sticker? Or? I understand that it was destroyed but...?

Also, is it this Friday when we will hear how the judge rules on the "heart shaped sticker?" I had said after the latest hearing that I thought what the judge wanted kept secret was more about the sticker, but I don't think I was right about that. Now I forget which thread it was being discussed... :sigh:

TIA.

:websleuther:
 
Chiquita71 said:
Post 138 is a picture of a heart sticker on duct tape. I am sure it says in this thread, I read it a while ago but have not been back: (I was looking through the photo threads)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68989&highlight=caseys+photobucket+pics

is this an actual picture of the sticker? Or? I understand that it was destroyed but...?

Also, is it this Friday when we will hear how the judge rules on the "heart shaped sticker?" I had said after the latest hearing that I thought what the judge wanted kept secret was more about the sticker, but I don't think I was right about that. Now I forget which thread it was being discussed... :sigh:

TIA.

:websleuther:
Click to expand...

That is not a picture of the heart sticker on the duct tape. That's a picture of a heart sticker (not the same kind as found at Casey's house) on a piece of cardboard that was found among the trash on Suburban. It may or may not be related to Caylee at all.
 
I thought it was interesting to learn about the location of the heart sticker residue on the piece of duct tape. The witness said it was in a corner of the tape at one of the ends. If the tape was centered at the mouth, this would position the heart at the ear or maybe even behind the ear.

Many have theorized that the heart sticker would have been intentionally placed front and center at the mouth. Seems that this info suggests it would have been in a different position.

Of course there are also other ways to apply the tape in which one of the ends would be at the front.
 
AZlawyer said:
OK, I cut out the heart sticker-backing shape, enhanced contrast on the tape photo, and made sure everything was the right size. Can you guys see what I was seeing?

BTW, I made sure the sticker backing was the right size and the tape was the right size BEFORE attempting to match them up, just to make sure I didn't over-convince myself. ;)
Click to expand...

Bumping in light of the importance of today's testimony.

(Click on the arrow right next to AZlawyer's name and it will take you to her original post where she has 2 files attached)
 
azlawyer said:
that is not a picture of the heart sticker on the duct tape. That's a picture of a heart sticker (not the same kind as found at casey's house) on a piece of cardboard that was found among the trash on suburban. It may or may not be related to caylee at all.
Click to expand...

thank you so much.
 
I apologize if this was mentioned but I'm so confused! For the longest time I thought the heart sticker we've all seen in photos was attached to a smaller piece of duct tape. I got a better look today though and heard that it was a piece of cardboard it was attached too. Where in the heck did the cardboard come from?

Believe me I wanna hang Casey high so this isn't a defense but how did the heart go from little Caylee's mouth to a piece of cardboard??

Thanks,
Amy
 
This is something we do need cleared up because initially back at the beginning when it was announced that a heart shaped sticker had been found I remember it being found along with a piece of cardboard. Then a bit later it was said to have been found on the cardboard. Thanks for the question darcimarie.
 
darcimarie said:
I apologize if this was mentioned but I'm so confused! For the longest time I thought the heart sticker we've all seen in photos was attached to a smaller piece of duct tape. I got a better look today though and heard that it was a piece of cardboard it was attached too. Where in the heck did the cardboard come from?

Believe me I wanna hang Casey high so this isn't a defense but how did the heart go from little Caylee's mouth to a piece of cardboard??

Thanks,
Amy
Click to expand...

I honestly think it became unattached during the heavy rains that the area experienced. It makes sense to me that it floated from the duct tape and landed on the card board randomly.
 
Tulessa said:
I honestly think it became unattached during the heavy rains that the area experienced. It makes sense to me that it floated from the duct tape and landed on the card board randomly.
Click to expand...

I do think that your theory is in the realm of possibilities. I consider myself of average intellect and came to this same conclusion regarding the heart sticker, I don't see why a jury wouldn't conclude the same regarding the sticker and the cardboard. One has to keep in mind that it was the residue (sticky) from the back of the heart sticker that was observed on the duct tape covering Caylee's mouth that the lab tech observed.
 
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