EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[nosysw]

I'm thinking about the looks of the people involved in this case. When i first started reading about this (here in SC), as a 53 yr old female, I thought more of HE as my child, than TM as my peer. More like, what if that was my daughter, than, I could be in Tammy's shoes.
Most people, who watch the news, have heard something about this case in SC, so i'm thinking the M's will be going down, IF the evidence if anything like I expect it to be.

In May, I was on jury duty, and in the group of twelve, there was a 20 yr old boy, who acted like a 12 yr old. I thought, he's going to be a problem. But when we started to deliberate, he was with the the group, and a woman, who was really nice, went out on a tangent alone. She KNEW fireman who thought they were the police, so this defendant probably thought it also. Therefore she assumed he was lying and guilty. Finally, because she didn't want to come back for the 5th day, she went with the group and found him innocent. I don't know if I trust in juries anymore either.

Yeah, I've spoken about my jury experience before so I won't go into it again. Suffice it to say, jurors who actually take the judges instructions to heart, and follow them to the letter, are an 'ideal', and IMO rare (as in there may be a few on any given jury, but more often possibly one who will hold onto their convictions against the pressure of the others) Why should we expect more? Most people I know would lie out of convenience on a regular basis. It is rare that I find someone who believes the truth is not an option depending on the circumstances of any given situation. Sad, but true.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Yeah, I've spoken about my jury experience before so I won't go into it again. Suffice it to say, jurors who actually take the judges instructions to heart, and follow them to the letter, are an 'ideal', and IMO rare (as in there may be a few on any given jury, but more often possibly one who will hold onto their convictions against the pressure of the others) Why should we expect more? Most people I know would lie out of convenience on a regular basis. It is rare that I find someone who believes the truth is not an option depending on the circumstances of any given situation. Sad, but true.

I have to take exception to this statement that it is sad that it's hard to find someone who believes the truth is not an option. Circumstances make a big difference, as does the type of lie. When someone asks you "How do I look?" and they look like a stuffed sausage in a color that is horrible on them, saying they look like a stuffed sausage is not an option unless you want to be completely rude. If there is nothing nice you can say, you have to say nothing (which is also completely rude), dance around the truth (which is hardly better than a lie as it is the sin of omission) or lie. I had a time when a friend of mine asked me to call her husband because she was in danger of having a miscarriage and I had had to drive her to the emergency room. I did. He would not come to the hospital because he couldn't handle it. I told him I wasn't going to tell her I talked with him. When she asked me if I'd gotten hold of him, I said no, as I could not tell her he refused to be with her at that time. I've never regretted that lie. It is my opinion that there are times when certain lies are an option. I understand if others do not agree with me.

 

[CarmonCayman]

Regarding looks of the people involved, this is about photographs of the victim being allowed in a SC trial:







That makes me think that the only photograph of Heather that will possibly be allowed is perhaps the one where she is in the car?



. http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/opinions/displayOpinion.cfm?caseNo=24924

Very good observation. I wonder if you are correct. Would the defense be prohibited from using unflattering pics of Heather too? What are your thoughts?


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[eileenhawkeye]

Very good observation. I wonder if you are correct. Would the defense be prohibited from using unflattering pics of Heather too? What are your thoughts?


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The decision applies to both sides. Even if it was allowed, I do not know how the defense would be able to use an unflattering photo of Heather, when the photos are owned by her family. Defendants have even appealed their case to the SC Supreme Court, because autopsy photos were used, but the justices have ruled that it is not against the rule. So unless either side can figure out how to use a photo of Heather that will not prejudice the jury in anyway, and can prove they need it to substantiate facts, it doesn't look like it will be allowed. Only photos of Heather I can see being shown are the car photo, if they got footage of her driving to PTL, and if there are any photos of Sidney and Heather together.

 

[RoxanneRoxannaDana]

I've watched a couple of O.J. Simpson retrospects on TV this week, it being the 20th anniversary of Nicole's murder.

Detective Tom Lange said on one of these shows that the actions of Mr. Simpson were those of a guilty party. The low speed car chase, the cash and disguise he had on him, the letter that sounded like a suicide note--all were the desperate actions of a guilty man.

I felt that way about O.J. when it happened 20 years ago, and I feel the same way about Tammy's actions since HE went missing. Claiming that she and SM were swingers, that she had a boyfriend, branding SM with a tattoo, calling Heather and her father nasty names--all of that (and more) prove to me that they are guilty.

If she and SM were innocent, TM would have worried about them being implicated since SM called HE the night she disappeared. They would have laid low and hoped for the best, not put up their dukes on-line for the whole world to see.

 

[rtjedarling]

Very good observation. I wonder if you are correct. Would the defense be prohibited from using unflattering pics of Heather too? What are your thoughts?


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That picture is the one that will garner the most empathy from the jury for her. It depicts a young, ordinary girl, on a first date with an age appropriate guy, happily and excitedly driving a straight drive successfullly for he first time and hours later her life is snuffed out.

And she sent the pic to who- her Dad- his last pic f her alive-boy will that resonate with the people- that is one part of the evening the defense does not want jurors to see- but it will be there.

 

[Madeleine74]

Without knowing all the evidence, it's hard, if not impossible, to determine pro / con of evidence. We know a very tiny amount.

Video evidence will benefit the state.

Photographic evidence, depending on what it is, could benefit either side.

Forensic evidence will likely benefit the state especially if there is DNA of the victim in places where she would not normally be (like if there was DNA in the M's home as one example).

Witness testimony can benefit either (or both) sides. Depends on the witness and what they are testifying to.

And so on and so forth.

We might be privy to 5% or less of the evidence gathered in this case.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The two have been held since Friday, when police served search warrants at a home on Highway 814 and removed them from that home.

“We have had some additional evidence that we located during the search that led us to, giving us probable cause for, the murder charge,” Horry County Police Chief Saundra Rhodes said, but declined to give specifics about the evidence found.

“The stuff that was found at the house, if we didn’t have a lot of stuff already from two months ago or six weeks ago, it wouldn’t have been that much,” Richardson said. “But it has added to things we already expected. So we were able to find some extra stuff after what we already knew to be obstruction of justice and indecent exposure.

Richardson said he wants the public to know kidnapping doesn’t necessarily mean someone being taken to another location.

“Keep in mind, kidnapping is simply keeping someone from being able to leave,” Richardson said. “We have this idea that you put a bag over their head and take them out of state,” he said. “Anytime you’re unable to leave, it is a kidnapping. I think it would be improper to say we found her blouse or we found her toothpaste or whatever.”

Old but interesting quotes.

I am still confused over how much was found in the house. The chief of police says it was enough to get a murder charge, while the prosecutor says it would not be much if they didn't already have significant evidence.

As for the kidnapping quote, it sounds to me like they are saying Heather was killed at PTL, and was detained for the period when the Moorers got there to when they killed her. If she was taken in their car alive, I do not think he would make that statement. It almost sounds like he is saying it might not fit the stereotypical image of a kidnapping, but it still is one.

http://www.thestate.com/2014/02/24/3288171/couple-charged-with-kidnapping.html

 

[Ghostwheel]

Old but interesting quotes.

I am still confused over how much was found in the house. The chief of police says it was enough to get a murder charge, while the prosecutor says it would not be much if they didn't already have significant evidence.

As for the kidnapping quote, it sounds to me like they are saying Heather was killed at PTL, and was detained for the period when the Moorers got there to when they killed her. If she was taken in their car alive, I do not think he would make that statement. It almost sounds like he is saying it might not fit the stereotypical image of a kidnapping, but it still is one.

http://www.thestate.com/2014/02/24/3288171/couple-charged-with-kidnapping.html

A single bloody fingerprint that belonged to Heather with her blood type would not be that much, but could be enough for a murder charge, if it were found in the Moorer house, along with other information already gathered. (doubtful they found that, but you get my meaning).

And it does occur to me that if a person is stabbed in some location (as an example) that would prevent them from leaving and therefore be kidnapping, by their definition. How they would know that, I am unsure, though.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Maybe it just his method of speaking, but what is up with the specific (non)examples? First, he mentions bag over the head and being taken over state lines...and then he says they didn't find her blouse or toothpaste. Why toothpaste? It is such a random item.

 

[NWLady]

I hate this thought but it hadn't occurred to me until now in regards to the kidnapping charge...what if it wasn't SM that TM was supposedly handcuffing to the bed?? SM and TM might've had to come up with an explanation of why the handcuffs were present and/or found during the search, so their made-up story/version was because TM used them to handcuff SM to the bed.

JMO and just speculation and just my own thoughts, opinion, etc.

 

[rpgman]

I hate this thought but it hadn't occurred to me until now in regards to the kidnapping charge...what if it wasn't SM that TM was supposedly handcuffing to the bed?? SM and TM might've had to come up with an explanation of why the handcuffs were present and/or found during the search, so their made-up story/version was because TM used them to handcuff SM to the bed.

JMO and just speculation and just my own thoughts, opinion, etc.

good point

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[Hatfield]

Maybe it just his method of speaking, but what is up with the specific (non)examples? First, he mentions bag over the head and being taken over state lines...and then he says they didn't find her blouse or toothpaste. Why toothpaste? It is such a random item.

Just speculation on my part. Remember one of the few details we know is that SM told Heather that he was leaving his wife. Maybe he told her to pack her bags and he is going to run away with her to another state.

Maybe the toothbrush + blouse were found in a luggage bag of Heathers along with more personal items that indicated she had planned on leaving for awhile with him. If LE found a packed bag of her luggage, then that may be pretty good evidence that she was planning on leaving with him based on what LE knows he told her. If LE found luggage but no Heather, that is pretty strong evidence she was harmed because of him/her. Because he told her he was leaving his wife and maybe there are more details as to what he told her like pack your bags and come with me.

 

[Hatfield]

I hate this thought but it hadn't occurred to me until now in regards to the kidnapping charge...what if it wasn't SM that TM was supposedly handcuffing to the bed?? SM and TM might've had to come up with an explanation of why the handcuffs were present and/or found during the search, so their made-up story/version was because TM used them to handcuff SM to the bed.

JMO and just speculation and just my own thoughts, opinion, etc.

Good theory. This could be what LE means about combining all the evidence together with things like that and especially if they have her leaving with him on video.

I get so mad when thinking how they duped her. She had no clue of their bad intentions. What evil people they are. It is so upsetting.

 

[EmmaRose]

Thank you NWLady and Hatfield for your great ideas. Both are good possibilities. The DA's comment about Heather's toothbrush had always seemed odd to me until reading Hatfield's comment about an overnight bag.

The six month mark of Heather's disappearance makes me antsy to have her found. So frustrating, since the answer to her whereabouts is out there. The Elvis family needs her back. And Heather's poor lost soul needs to rest and be properly mourned by her loved ones.

 

[Dixie E]

The toothbrush could be the DNA that was found that belonged to H

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo I doubt LE would mention a blouse or toothpaste if those items were actually found. Imo LE was just giving examples.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Jmo I doubt LE would mention a blouse or toothpaste if those items were actually found. Imo LE was just giving examples.

Yep, the same thing happened when LE said they do not how Heather was killed, and then people insisted that they must have found the murder weapon....

 

[rob]

I hate this thought but it hadn't occurred to me until now in regards to the kidnapping charge...what if it wasn't SM that TM was supposedly handcuffing to the bed?? SM and TM might've had to come up with an explanation of why the handcuffs were present and/or found during the search, so their made-up story/version was because TM used them to handcuff SM to the bed.

JMO and just speculation and just my own thoughts, opinion, etc.

This is a great theory and competely makes sense. I always wondered why someone would even bring up the handcuffing to the bed. Most men, even if wimpy enough to agree to that, wouldn't want it to be known.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I hate this thought but it hadn't occurred to me until now in regards to the kidnapping charge...what if it wasn't SM that TM was supposedly handcuffing to the bed?? SM and TM might've had to come up with an explanation of why the handcuffs were present and/or found during the search, so their made-up story/version was because TM used them to handcuff SM to the bed.

JMO and just speculation and just my own thoughts, opinion, etc.

But having handcuffs in the bedroom could just be explained as foreplay/roleplaying in bed. They could just say they have a bit of a crazy sex life.