EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[stillwatersc]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95807&page=2

Donald Blom, whose case became Minnesota’s first successfully prosecuted missing-body murder case

Poirier’s body was never recovered. The prosecution only had the following evidence: bone fragments recovered from the fire pit that an anthropologist identified as belonging to a woman between the ages of 19 and 26; a charred tooth a forensic dentist tied to Poirier; a grainy video that showed Poirer being taken away from the store but did not decisively identify Blom;...

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Through November 20, 2014 (408 trials) (49 states, DC and Virgin Islands)(No cases foundin: IDAHO); (Approximately 48 dismissals, mistrials, acquittals or reversals on appeal forconviction rate of approximately 88%); (Approximately 18 death penalty cases); (91% ofcases involve male defendants with 58% of the victims being female); (at least 54% (219cases) were domestic violence cases, generally a man killing a woman); (16% (65 cases) hadvictims under 18 years old, generally children of defendants)1For two cases of alleged “innocent” men being convicted see Boorn, Jesse (also oldest case)and Hudspeth, Andrew.

http://www.nobodycases.com/no_body2.pdf

 

[SStarr33]

I wonder how many no body cases have been won without DNA.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Investigators must draw on other evidence to make up for what DiBiase said was a “handicap” of prosecuting without a body. The most compelling no-body cases will still have physical evidence, DiBiase said. DNA from a blood spot in a defendant's car, for example, could prove that the victim, at least, was present in the defendant's car and injured. Other evidence can draw a similar ghostly outline of a missing victim: a piece of hair or clothing, video of the person entering or leaving a building, records of the last phone calls made or received, all in addition to defendant statements, witness statements, weapon recovery and more.

http://www.thecrimereport.org/news/inside-criminal-justice/2011-03-murderedand-missing


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[Ghostwheel]

Furthermore...

Not sure when LE and MSM are going to present their evidence of DNA and make it official. Possibly at upcoming bond hearing?

I've alway thought that a huge amount of blood could prove someone was murdered without finding a body. If someone lost a large amount of blood without medical attention that they could be presumed dead.

If a small amount of HE's blood was found at the M's (even after clean-up), could this prove she was in fact murdered. People just don't bleed for no reason.

LE could have used luminol to find a large amount of blood that was cleaned up afterwards and argue that she was killed.

Other things could also include: a bone fragment; clothing that belonged to the missing person with their DNA on it, especially something she had been wearing the night she went missing; something that could kill another human being with missing person's DNA, i.e rope, cord or the like with DNA or plastic bag with saliva in it; copious amounts of hair having been ripped out of a scalp; clothing belonging to the missing person that has been sliced or damaged as if from a weapon. I've seen those kinds of things used in "no body" cases.

 

[NWLady]

NOT that this is the theory I believe but I just had this thought and wanted to throw it out there: IF only one of the Moorer's is responsible for actually kidnapping and murdering Heather, could the other one still face the same charges because they either knew about it before, during or after the crime was committed?? (I know I have read cases where it's happened this way, but they were all cases where the body was found, so I was just wondering if it can happen this way if the body hasn't been found)?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[stillwatersc]

NOT that this is the theory I believe but I just had this thought and wanted to throw it out there: IF only one of the Moorer's is responsible for actually kidnapping and murdering Heather, could the other one still face the same charges because they either knew about it before, during or after the crime was committed?? (I know I have read cases where it's happened this way, but they were all cases where the body was found, so I was just wondering if it can happen this way if the body hasn't been found)?

Thoughts anyone?

South Carolina "hand of one is hand of all" law:

"One who joins with another to accomplish an illegal purpose is liable criminally for everything done by his confederate incidental to the execution of the common design and purpose."[State v. Curry, 370 S.C. 674, 684 (S.C. Ct. App. 2006)].

http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/hand-of-one-is-hand-of-all-theory/

 

[SStarr33]

I wonder how many no body cases have been won without DNA.

If I counted correctly, there are 5 cases won out of the 408 listed here that say no DNA. BTW, this does not have every detail of every no body case, so maybe there were others without DNA. I think I will email DiBiase and ask him.

I do hope they have strong DNA evidence.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

LE made an arrest after a year but, still haven't recovered Zachary Malinowski. FYI: Zach went missing in August of 2013 in Horry County as well.

http://www.thestate.com/2014/12/08/3860835/arrest-warrants-provide-more-details.html

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Found-Burned-Out&highlight=Zachary+Malinowski

 

[tarheelslim]

I've alway thought that a huge amount of blood could prove someone was murdered without finding a body. If someone lost a large amount of blood without medical attention that they could be presumed dead.

If a small amount of HE's blood was found at the M's (even after clean-up), could this prove she was in fact murdered. People just don't bleed for no reason.

LE could have used luminol to find a large amount of blood that was cleaned up afterwards and argue that she was killed.

I've seen a Forensic Files where the perp was convicted based on the exact evidence you described above.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

I've seen a Forensic Files where the perp was convicted based on the exact evidence you described above.

Forensic Files in HD: Season 13 - Ep 15 "Sworded Scheme"
[video=youtube;8tXwcx9PrYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tXwcx9PrYo[/video]

 

[Madeleine74]

There should be DNA in this case since LE already said there was.

But even without that, a good circumstantial case can still get a defendant convicted. Lots of things can tie a victim to the perp beyond DNA. Proximity, cell phone evidence, pings, other physical evidence, statements, being caught in lies. Alone each may not be enough but when taken together a clear picture can emerge. In this case they also have video evidence allegedly showing the M's truck, to the exclusion of all other trucks, heading to and then away from PTL at the same time as they have GPS and cell phone pings from HE also heading towards PTL. And of course they have cell phone records proving contact that night/morning as well as a statement HE made to her roommate by phone.

Doesn't take a brain surgeon to put the pieces together and see that HE met up with 1 or more of the M's and then her phone suddenly stopped pinging and she was never seen alive again. The inference drawn is an extremely compelling and powerful one.

 

[Ghostwheel]

There should be DNA in this case since LE already said there was.

But even without that, a good circumstantial case can still get a defendant convicted. Lots of things can tie a victim to the perp beyond DNA. Proximity, cell phone evidence, pings, other physical evidence, statements, being caught in lies. Alone each may not be enough but when taken together a clear picture can emerge. In this case they also have video evidence allegedly showing the M's truck, to the exclusion of all other trucks, heading to and then away from PTL at the same time as they have GPS and cell phone pings from HE also heading towards PTL. And of course they have cell phone records proving contact that night/morning as well as a statement HE made to her roommate by phone.

Doesn't take a brain surgeon to put the pieces together and see that HE met up with 1 or more of the M's and then her phone suddenly stopped pinging and she was never seen alive again. The inference drawn is an extremely compelling and powerful one.

I agree. Sometimes all those things that just "happen" to line up at the same time someone disappears are more compelling than some DNA finds. What DID we do before cell phones, GPS and security cameras?

 

[tarheelslim]

Forensic Files in HD: Season 13 - Ep 15 "Sworded Scheme"

Ha, I should have known "PeterThomasFan" would know exactly which episode I was referring to...

 

[NFYIAMY]

Just wondering if this had been discussed before. I don't remember the details being put out there before - but SM's attorney brought it up today. On the 'two people charged' - that they-- hacked TM's facebook-- and he painted a picture that those 'rants' were from them and not her?

I vaguely remember the discussion on this but really don't remember hearing this before??

 

[Madeleine74]

Just because the defense attorney said it doesn't make it true.

The "someone hacked my account" or "someone hacked my computer" seems to get used a lot nowadays.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Just wondering if this had been discussed before. I don't remember the details being put out there before - but SM's attorney brought it up today. On the 'two people charged' - that they-- hacked TM's facebook-- and he painted a picture that those 'rants' were from them and not her?

I vaguely remember the discussion on this but really don't remember hearing this before??

IMO, neither of the two are capable of hacking a Facebook account. Not that it can't be done, I just don't see them having the knowledge.

IIRC, a screenshot was altered and posted by a fake profile. Now, that's a lot easier to do by someone.


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[jillycat]

Just because the state alleges it, doesn't make it true. In the legal sense.

And the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what they claim is what happened.

 

[NFYIAMY]

I get that it 'doesn't make it true'....

I just don't remember ever hearing the 'details' (true or not) of the charges against those two people.

Now we know?

 

[hockeymom4]

Since LE says they believe HE drove to PTL, they believe she was kidnapped and murdered, and the Moorer's black truck drove their taking her, but has no DNA of hers....I am curious to hear how they explain this. IMO, if she was in their truck, her DNA would be in the truck. So, boat? Water?