EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[NFYIAMY]

If (gosh I hate this part of the conversation) - she was put into a large cooler, bag or some other 'disposable' container before being put into the truck.....wouldn't that keep her DNA from being found in the truck.

Also - how many days did they have with the truck before anything was taken from it for DNA testing?

 

[PeterThomasFan]

If (gosh I hate this part of the conversation) - she was put into a large cooler, bag or some other 'disposable' container before being put into the truck.....wouldn't that keep her DNA from being found in the truck.

Also - how many days did they have with the truck before anything was taken from it for DNA testing?

In 3 minutes time though?

I'm still trying to understand how LE came to that conclusion.

Phone call refresher:

Here is the timeline that the prosecution presented of Dec. 18:

1:35 am.. phone call from pay phone by Sidney to Heather.. call is 4:53 minutes

1:44 Heather calls (person unidentified) who is in Florida at the time. And says Sidney just called and is leaving Tammy. Heather appears upset because she had been trying to get her life back on track after the affair and the harassment by Tammy. Heather is still at her home when she makes this call. The call lasts 2:20 minutes.

2:29 Heather attempts to call the number Sidney called from which is a pay phone. Several times it does not appear anyone answered.

3:16 am Heather attempts to call Sidney's phone with no response.

3:17 am .. Heather calls Sidney's phone and has a 4:15 minutes conversation with Sidney. Heather is at her home at this point. Sidney is at his home which is approx. 3 miles from the boat landing. After this conversation, Heather gets into her car and drives directly to Peachtree Boat Landing. Sidney also denies this conversation until police confront him with Heather's phone record and then he says he did talk to her but it was just to tell her to quit calling and leave them alone.


3:38 am.. Heather attempts to call Sidney's phone. She has arrived at the boat landing at the time of this call. She attempts to call at 3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41..

Her phone data ends at that point. 3:41 am.

I only see where H called 7 times after S initiated the first call.

 

[Madeleine74]

Since LE says they believe HE drove to PTL, they believe she was kidnapped and murdered, and the Moorer's black truck drove their taking her, but has no DNA of hers....I am curious to hear how they explain this. IMO, if she was in their truck, her DNA would be in the truck. So, boat? Water?

Easy peasy. A tarp or several tarps so that Heather was not in direct contact with any part of the truck and any possible DNA transfer to the truck was contained. Dispose of tarp(s), no DNA found.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Easy peasy. A tarp or several tarps so that Heather was not in direct contact with any part of the truck and any possible DNA transfer to the truck was contained. Dispose of tarp(s), no DNA found.

What method do you think was used @Madeleine74?

 

[LBDunes]

I get that it 'doesn't make it true'....

I just don't remember ever hearing the 'details' (true or not) of the charges against those two people.

Now we know?

The closest I remember hearing about the charges was when TM's atty was questioned around the time of the 1st bond hearing. He said I don't know that they were her posts and spoke of phone spoofing or something to that effect. So yeah, this is the first time I have heard both of the people are charged with hacking her account. In the media reports I gathered it was just 1 of the 2. I think this will be a point brought up at trial to counter anything concerning the rants and threats made by TM to cast doubt to the jury. Sadly, I think it will be an effective tool for the attys with all of the crazies posting on FB with obviously fake ID's. Also, from what has been released about one of the two charged, it seems to me that LE may not have clear evidence to charge the case against the man. From what has been released to the media he was charged for passing information to LE from social media that turned out to be false. So, if the info he passed to LE was spoofed, why was he charged and not the person that actually did the spoofing to make it look like TM's post? Unless they have evidence that he spoofed posts by TM, rather than just passing it into LE as a tip, I certainly would not think he was guilty. Wouldn't anyone have turned that in as a tip not knowing it was false info?

 

[jillycat]

Don't you have to have direct contact with someone to murder them? If not, aren't you using a means that leaves physical, likely blood and tissue, evidence at the scene? And when you start wrapping someone you just killed in tarps, don't you risk the travel of DNA from both your person and their body? We are talking about a 3 minute event, that would include the parking of the murderer's vehicle, activity to get close enough to the victim to subdue and kill her, then a careful wrapping process to ensure all DNA is contained, placement of the body in the vehicle, then getting back in the vehicle, and driving off. This seems highly ambitious and requiring a practiced skill set that still would not allow for that tidy of a scene or vehicle.

 

[TTF14]

Don't you have to have direct contact with someone to murder them? If not, aren't you using a means that leaves physical, likely blood and tissue, evidence at the scene? And when you start wrapping someone you just killed in tarps, don't you risk the travel of DNA from both your person and their body? We are talking about a 3 minute event, that would include the parking of the murderer's vehicle, activity to get close enough to the victim to subdue and kill her, then a careful wrapping process to ensure all DNA is contained, placement of the body in the vehicle, then getting back in the vehicle, and driving off. This seems highly ambitious and requiring a practiced skill set that still would not allow for that tidy of a scene or vehicle.

Agree. The only way I see that she could have been murdered at PTL without leaving evidence at PTL would be a strangling or a closed head would. And from what I understand, strangling takes a while!

 

[New2MB]

Don't you have to have direct contact with someone to murder them? If not, aren't you using a means that leaves physical, likely blood and tissue, evidence at the scene? And when you start wrapping someone you just killed in tarps, don't you risk the travel of DNA from both your person and their body? We are talking about a 3 minute event, that would include the parking of the murderer's vehicle, activity to get close enough to the victim to subdue and kill her, then a careful wrapping process to ensure all DNA is contained, placement of the body in the vehicle, then getting back in the vehicle, and driving off. This seems highly ambitious and requiring a practiced skill set that still would not allow for that tidy of a scene or vehicle.

True, that would seem like a very small amount of time, but this is all assuming that it was something that caused all of that kind of DNA. A strangling wouldn't. It's very possible that something was done to subdue her, get her into a tarp, rubber bin (she was fairly small), or some container, and then leave PTL to dispose elsewhere, ie. Sewer tank.

 

[jillycat]

True, that would seem like a very small amount of time, but this is all assuming that it was something that caused all of that kind of DNA. A strangling wouldn't. It's very possible that something was done to subdue her, get her into a tarp, rubber bin (she was fairly small), or some container, and then leave PTL to dispose elsewhere, ie. Sewer tank.

A strangling means you have direct contact, so your pristine DNA-free tarp is not pristine for long. And I think it's easier to do all this at a location under your control. JMO

 

[CarmonCayman]

The state said yesterday that the texts came from SMs phone because the phone was backed up to the computer in the house and that is where they were recovered from after they were deleted from the phone. So much for the false hacking claim.

The state said video of SM calling HE from Payphone and SM denying it when interviewed 3x alone with LE. So much for the false claim by the defense that he lied because TM was in interview and they had such a happy marriage.

State said the vehicle was clearly a black truck even from the eyes of someone that doesn't know anything about vehicles. So much for the defenses claim it was just a dark blurred object.

I still believe the timelines of the calls and the lies in the interviews are enough to convict.

The defense said something about HE using other people's phones to call SM and leaving post it notes. I wonder if there is evidence of that.

The state said SM called HE 90 times. I think some of those were SM and TM calls on speaker so others could hear. Wouldn't there be phone records of all of these calls?

I think there is a lot we still don't know and yes you can convict on circumstantial evidence.

One thing judge said that I think makes sense. He said if the Ms skip bail that is an admission of guilt.

When SM is interviewed by LE and says their was no contact with HE even though there is proven contact beyond any reasonable doubt there was 2 hours before her phone stopped pinging and proof beyond a reasonable doubt she called him 3x just minutes before her phone stopped pinging from where her car was found. Isn't that lie also an admission of guilt? I mean he didn't say yeah I called her and told her to stop calling me and she kept calling and I just ignored her. He lied about it. That shows guilt to me.


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[jillycat]

The state said yesterday that the texts came from SMs phone because the phone was backed up to the computer in the house and that is where they were recovered from after they were deleted from the phone. So much for the false hacking claim.

The state said video of SM calling HE from Payphone and SM denying it when interviewed 3x alone with LE. So much for the false claim by the defense that he lied because TM was in interview and they had such a happy marriage.

State said the vehicle was clearly a black truck even from the eyes of someone that doesn't know anything about vehicles. So much for the defenses claim it was just a dark blurred object.

I still believe the timelines of the calls and the lies in the interviews are enough to convict.

The defense said something about HE using other people's phones to call SM and leaving post it notes. I wonder if there is evidence of that.

The state said SM called HE 90 times. I think some of those were SM and TM calls on speaker so others could hear. Wouldn't there be phone records of all of these calls?

I think there is a lot we still don't know and yes you can convict on circumstantial evidence.

One thing judge said that I think makes sense. He said if the Ms skip bail that is an admission of guilt.

When SM is interviewed by LE and says their was no contact with HE even though there is proven contact beyond any reasonable doubt there was 2 hours before her phone stopped pinging and proof beyond a reasonable doubt she called him 3x just minutes before her phone stopped pinging from where her car was found. Isn't that lie also an admission of guilt? I mean he didn't say yeah I called her and told her to stop calling me and she kept calling and I just ignored her. He lied about it. That shows guilt to me.


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I honestly don't think anyone needs much convincing that they killed her, and we know circumstantial cases yield convictions. (However, there has been no "pinging" information released. We only know that all phone activity/data usage stopped at 3:41.)

So, what has always bothered me about this case is the claim that she was killed at PTL, and the M's traveled back toward/to their home right after a murder committed in 3 minutes, yet we have no idea how Heather was killed or where she is?

We're told the M's's vehicle traveled from the direction of their home to PTL. The police have stated they know the movements of the M's after Heather went missing. What does this mean? They know...from what point? And are those the only two cameras on that stretch of road? Do we really know the start and stop point(s) of the M's vehicle, particularly coming back from PTL? Are there no other cameras in that area?

For a lot of the theories to be plausible, the M's had to be cool as cucumbers at PTL, fast as lightening, wearing hazmat suits, carrying clean tarps, and pulling off a murder and a body haul in barely 3 minutes, while leaving not a shred of physical evidence. They then had to successfully dispose of the body on their own property or in a direction toward or past their home. Or, prior to leaving PTL, they had to get her dumped in that river at the landing within the timeline and be lucky enough not to have her body emerge by now.

This just sounds utterly fantastical to me. Somewhere in this chain of events is a larger story. And perhaps other actors, and other activities leading up to whatever went on at PTL. JMO

 

[bestill]

Total speculation...TM was at the landing when Heather arrived and she was with someone else and in their car. There was an altercation and Heather was killed. SM drives up, sees what's going on and immediately leaves and returns home. TM then disposes of Heather or hides her and then comes home. She wouldn't be in a recognizable car and would have the time needed to do it. She could have hidden Heather anywhere. I do think there is an accomplice.

 

[jillycat]

Total speculation...TM was at the landing when Heather arrived and she was with someone else and in their car. There was an altercation and Heather was killed. SM drives up, sees what's going on and immediately leaves and returns home. TM then disposes of Heather or hides her and then comes home. She wouldn't be in a recognizable car and would have the time needed to do it. She could have hidden Heather anywhere. I do think there is an accomplice.

I don't know the area, so is there any way toward/into PTL without being seen on camera going there?

 

[bestill]

I don't know the area, so is there any way toward/into PTL without being seen on camera going there?

Do we know if they have Heather's car on film? If they don't then there may be a way.

 

[jillycat]

Do we know if they have Heather's car on film? If they don't then there may be a way.

I don't think there has ever been a reference to that by LE, but it seems there has been discussion about the route she could have taken. PeterThomasFan, didn't you post about other roads in the area and a route she might have taken that would not have her passing those two cameras the M's passed?

 

[bestill]

Peachtree Road didn't have camera's on it at that time,that I'm aware of, unless it's at private residences.

 

[Dixie E]

I have always wondered if one of the Ms abducted H from her home and took her to PTL and then called the other one to say what happened and to get to PTL as soon as possible. All they would of had to do was to get her into that truck. I believe that she was taken back to their house, either dead or alive and then shortly disposed of. That first phone call from SM was the clue to everything that went down that night.

 

[stillwatersc]

Do we know if they have Heather's car on film? If they don't then there may be a way.

I think they did have video of Heather's car but I can't find it in MSM. Maybe Hoppy remembers or has notes.

 

[jillycat]

I have always wondered if one of the Ms abducted H from her home and took her to PTL and then called the other one to say what happened and to get to PTL as soon as possible. All they would of had to do was to get her into that truck. I believe that she was taken back to their house, either dead or alive and then shortly disposed of. That first phone call from SM was the clue to everything that went down that night.

Have never thought she was killed there.

 

[stillwatersc]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ec-2013-28***ARREST**&p=10346351#post10346351


POSTED BY HOPPY!

SM's attorney stated that SM was the one who told LE about TM's texts to Heather (which led to the IE charges). He stated that he isn't sure why SM was charged with OJ - as he felt that SM was attempting to be upfront (after getting caught telling some untruths).

They stated that there had been a 5k ATM withdrawal. Defense attorney's said 'prove it'. They didn't say anything about the 10k in cash that LE found in the home safe.

They made it clear they have searched in VERY DETAILED manner (using specialized equipment which is basically an 'ultrasound of the river bottom') at PTL and NOTHING of Heather's was found.

The solicitor stated the FBI had taken the video survellaince and came back with a list of things to identify 'the vehicle' in the videos:

Ford 150
2013-14
Dark Color
Silver Toolbox
Moon/Sunroof
Fog lights
Specific High End bulb headlights

They found there were 82 of these vehicles. They visually inspected them all and they were ALL excluded EXCEPT for the Moorer vehicle.

They said that both SM and TM have Florida state Identification cards. The defense attorney said it was so they could 'cash their checks' when in FL. They also stated that TM was asking someone if they had a 'hook up' to get them new FL id's.

SM's attorney stated that as this goes along you will find NO EVIDENCE that:

SM was in 'the vehicle'
SM was at PTL
SM was a part of any of this.

He stated the evidence will show that SM had an affair with Heather until October. He said that SM had NO MOTIVE - that SM liked Heather.

TM's attorney said something about his client thinking that someone had 'spoofed her phone' and that she wasn't responsible for some of the calls, texts, etc made on the phone. "Someone was pretending to be them".