EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
She's got him by the balls. He was involved and they both know why. My thoughts go to getting them in prison, whomever may fall. Strength to The Elvis family through it all. Thoughts and prayers too.
 
The fact that they're being tried together tells me that SM is in it up to his eyeballs. Once faced with a murder charge, if innocent, or if merely complicit under duress after the fact, he would have at the very least have confided to his attorney, who would not allow his client to stand next to TM and risk taking on punishment that fully belongs to her. I think those two made a pact before Heather was murdered and this was a diabolical crime and cover-up carried out by the both of them because they wanted the outcome they aggressively pursued.

As for the timeline, this is what bothers me:

She spends 2:20 short minutes talking to her friend about a significant turn of events that is markedly upsetting to her, according to the account we've heard. I don't know why this strikes me, and it may be as simple as BW had been asleep, was abruptly awakened, and perhaps they agreed to talk further later that day after getting sleep. But it strikes me.

Seven minutes later, Heather begins a 17 minute posting session on one of her social media sites. Twenty minutes after those posts end, she commences what LE refers to as "several" calls to the pay phone. I've never understood why LE made other timeline details public, but only vaguely referenced her calls to the pay phone. So did she call twice? Three times? Six times? And over what period of time?

She then calls SM's cell phone and calls it again a minute later? It seems to me that if SM was feeding her a tale of needing to use a pay phone, he would be giving her a reason his cell phone was not available for his use. I cannot imagine then, why, if she feared TM as we're told she did, she would risk calling that phone at that hour, not once, but twice.

Then she leaves immediately for PTL? After they speak for 4:15 minutes, which is an eternity for a guy who's wife who threatened his lover is in the same house.

I would like to know what was going on for those 47 minutes between the first call to the pay phone at 2:29 and the first call to SM's cell phone at 3:16. I would like to know why there was another series of (seemingly) frantic calls to that cell phone SM didn't have earlier, then had in his possession again. And I would like to know where everyone was when all these phones were being dialed and were ringing and not being answered and then being answered...and then, Boom. Heather was detained, killed, and being transported for disposal in under three minutes at PTL. Immediately after she hung up her phone.

Really?
 
jillycat said:
The fact that they're being tried together tells me that SM is in it up to his eyeballs. Once faced with a murder charge, if innocent, or if merely complicit under duress after the fact, he would have at the very least have confided to his attorney, who would not allow his client to stand next to TM and risk taking on punishment that fully belongs to her. I think those two made a pact before Heather was murdered and this was a diabolical crime and cover-up carried out by the both of them because they wanted the outcome they aggressively pursued.

As for the timeline, this is what bothers me:

She spends 2:20 short minutes talking to her friend about a significant turn of events that is markedly upsetting to her, according to the account we've heard. I don't know why this strikes me, and it may be as simple as BW had been asleep, was abruptly awakened, and perhaps they agreed to talk further later that day after getting sleep. But it strikes me.

Seven minutes later, Heather begins a 17 minute posting session on one of her social media sites. Twenty minutes after those posts end, she commences what LE refers to as "several" calls to the pay phone. I've never understood why LE made other timeline details public, but only vaguely referenced her calls to the pay phone. So did she call twice? Three times? Six times? And over what period of time?

She then calls SM's cell phone and calls it again a minute later? It seems to me that if SM was feeding her a tale of needing to use a pay phone, he would be giving her a reason his cell phone was not available for his use. I cannot imagine then, why, if she feared TM as we're told she did, she would risk calling that phone at that hour, not once, but twice.

Then she leaves immediately for PTL? After they speak for 4:15 minutes, which is an eternity for a guy who's wife who threatened his lover is in the same house.

I would like to know what was going on for those 47 minutes between the first call to the pay phone at 2:29 and the first call to SM's cell phone at 3:16. I would like to know why there was another series of (seemingly) frantic calls to that cell phone SM didn't have earlier, then had in his possession again. And I would like to know where everyone was when all these phones were being dialed and were ringing and not being answered and then being answered...and then, Boom. Heather was detained, killed, and being transported for disposal in under three minutes at PTL. Immediately after she hung up her phone.

Really?
Click to expand...

I had forgotten about the social media postings.

I think she probably woke BW up and yeah, they agreed to talk the next day. I feel so bad for BW. I've said it before, but she's done an amazing job keeping mum here and I hope she ends up being a key witness to get these two murderers to prison for good.

As far as your other questions......we don't even REALLY know if what you've posted/what's been released is entirely accurate. We're assuming it is. But we also assumed they had DNA evidence, because they said they did, and they don't. There could be more calls, there could be fewer...? I think the only one we can be 100% sure of is the call from the payphone from SM, which is pretty damning evidence, especially since he lied about it, and even personal knowledge of the very existence of payphones.

We also don't really know just who drove HE's car to PTL. Early on LE said they were pretty certain HE drove herself. But, why???
 
Dr. Know? said:
They could. A stong prosecutor can & most likely will prove otherwise.
Click to expand...

The case is screwed if she has ever threatened suicide before. It could also be screwed since she has threatened to run away.
 
Pregnancy is still off limits unless you have a link from msm or law enforcement. Rumor not allowed. Discussing weight, makeup, or making fun of anyone's looks is off limits. It has nothing to do with this case.


:tyou:
 
PeterThomasFan said:
The receipts, dated Dec. 17, were from earlier in the day when she stopped at the Myrtle Beach Kangaroo on Mr. Joe White Avenue,

According to the police report, the Kangaroo receipt was time stamped 4:18 p.m. Dec. 17
Click to expand...
RSBM: Thank you for jogging my memory.
 
Aeronomy said:
I had intended to post this in the bond hearing thread, but didn't realize it was locked until after I'd written it out. I'm not sure which thread it would fit in now, or even if it does fit in one at all, but there were a number of comments about SM's and TM's behavior/actions when SM was released on bail.

It appears to me that SM keeps himself in check when he knows he's on camera - no displays of emotion, etc. If he smiled when getting in the vehicle, perhaps had to do with it being the beginning of a personal moment of relief that he's no longer being held behind bars. It seems they both know they're stuck with one another for now and just as much as many think he doesn't want to be with TM, I can't help but wonder if TM feels the same. Just as SM may be displaying a lack of emotion in front of cameras, TM may be displaying a heightened sincerity towards him in front of them. Could they just be following their lawyers' advice on how to carry themselves in front of the cameras? I tend to think so anyway.

I truly think SM isn't quite as controlled by TM as some believe. Almost everything I've learned about him suggests he's one big fat liar. He's lied to his wife about Heather, he lied to Heather about his wife, he lied to police about himself . . . and it appears so far he only admits to things when they can be proven. BTW, was it proven TM sent those pics from SM's phone versus SM sending them because he was the one feeling this rage at Heather not responding to him? . . . Just a manipulative way to get attention? IDK, but gosh, I see him jumping bail more than TM for some reason.
Click to expand...
Good points. BBM: If the SM (the "big fat liar") is to be believed, TM had his phone on lock-down. She had it password protected and he didn't know the password. Like I said, IF he is to be believed, he didn't access to his phone to send the photos. JMO.
 
I stand by my thought that SM did care for HE. I think that is what angered TM the most. I also think he was controlled by TM and lied for self preservation. I think the involvement is obviously there as far as the night HE went missing but the vague details we have heard do not paint a clear picture of what happened.
 
Also, I am really surprised so many people see this as being so black and white.
 
Schmaley said:
I stand by my thought that SM did care for HE. I think that is what angered TM the most. I also think he was controlled by TM and lied for self preservation. I think the involvement is obviously there as far as the night HE went missing but the vague details we have heard do not paint a clear picture of what happened.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.

If there was no video evidence (him on the payphone and the truck, which I firmly believe is their truck), and what BW told investigators what HE told her about the call, this case would be incredibly weak.

Thank goodness they have him on video at that pay phone, and that he repeatedly lied about it, too.
 
Schmaley said:
Also, I am really surprised so many people see this as being so black and white.
Click to expand...

I agree. I have a hard time with the gray area in this case b/c so much of it is gray. There are so many variables that it's not as cut and dry as oh we found you standing over this dead body holding a bloody knife. That to me is black and white. This is certainly a gray situation with many players and directions. JMO
 
lstiff said:
I agree. I have a hard time with the gray area in this case b/c so much of it is gray. There are so many variables that it's not as cut and dry as oh we found you standing over this dead body holding a bloody knife. That to me is black and white. This is certainly a gray situation with many players and directions. JMO
Click to expand...

The gray areas are working for the Moorer's along with the fact that they've not found Heather. Really makes me sick when I think about it.
 
If he did care for or love Heather he sure had a unique way of demonstrating those feelings. :-#
 
We don't know all the gray areas nor can we ascertain how gray they are when we haven't seen all the state's evidence.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Regarding SM's excuse that he called HE in those early morning hours of 12/18/13 (specifically at 1:36am) to tell her to "stop calling and discontinue leaving (notes?) on SM's vehicle."


  • First of all, what calls existed between 11/5/13 and 12/17/13 that had HE calling SM? Or leaving notes on his car?

  • WHY did SM lie about him being in contact with HE until he was confronted with information that LE had the call logs that proved he called her? His wife already knew about the affair and this was LE investigating a missing person and his wife wasn't in the room during questioning. WHY LIE several times?

  • WHY was it *so urgent* that SM contact HE to tell her to stop calling or leaving notes that he HAD to do this after 1:30am Wed 12/18/13, when evidence shows HE was on a date the evening of 12/17/13 and (supposedly) not calling him, not leaving notes and not talking to him, and hadn't since 11/5/13?

  • WHY did SM tell HE that he had left or was leaving his wife and why did he have to make this announcement at 1:36am on 12/18/13? What was *so urgent* that SM HAD to call HE to tell her at that very late hour? This is not a weekend night.

  • WHY did SM and/or TM make 90+ phone calls to HE's cell phone during a 2 hr period some time (weeks?) before HE's disappearance? What was *so urgent* they had to call overAndoverAndoverAndover and couldn't just leave a message or send a txt? 90+ calls? Care to explain that one?

  • If the affair was over and had been since 11/5/13, then WHY did TM send pictures of her and SM having sex in Dec 2013 to HE? What for? The affair was over, allegedly no contact between SM & HE for several weeks until SM called HE from that payphone on 12/18/13 @ 1:36am.
Click to expand...

The defense stated Heather called Sidney from other phones. Also stated she left notes on Sidney's vehicle. Maybe they have some proof of this. Maybe they don't. It's really difficult for me to believe the Moorer's had their harrass HE moments with no communication from Heather at all. The defense just confirmed what I already believed. Same position on the payphone call from Sidney. I do not believe it was an out of the blue phone call. We don't know what transpired earlier in the day or the days leading up to the phone call. Whatever went on, it's obvious Heather was not intimidated as she agreed to meet Sidney at PTL. It seems she was also comfortable calling his cell phone several times after arriving at PTL.

Are we sure Tammy was not present during the questioning? I believe it was stated during the bond hearing she was present. IMO

I am anxious to hear the testimony of the roommate. I don't mean to imply she is not telling the truth. However, she stated Heather was upset. I can't ignore that Sidney's version of the conversation fits HE's emotional response the best. Hoping the roommate can shed some light on why HE was upset because Sidney was leaving his wife and wanted to be with her.

There is more to this story than what has been told by the State. I am anxious to hear more from the other side. Maybe they can help make the pieces of the puzzle fit.
 
TTF14 said:
I had forgotten about the social media postings.

I think she probably woke BW up and yeah, they agreed to talk the next day. I feel so bad for BW. I've said it before, but she's done an amazing job keeping mum here and I hope she ends up being a key witness to get these two murderers to prison for good.

As far as your other questions......we don't even REALLY know if what you've posted/what's been released is entirely accurate. We're assuming it is. But we also assumed they had DNA evidence, because they said they did, and they don't. There could be more calls, there could be fewer...? I think the only one we can be 100% sure of is the call from the payphone from SM, which is pretty damning evidence, especially since he lied about it, and even personal knowledge of the very existence of payphones.

We also don't really know just who drove HE's car to PTL. Early on LE said they were pretty certain HE drove herself. But, why???
Click to expand...

I pose the questions more as statements about the gaps in a timeline that's otherwise rich in reported details.

If she called the pay phone "several" times, I see no value to the state's case by not disclosing the times.

If law enforcement has no idea how she was murdered, I would think they would be more cautious about limiting the murder timeline to such a specific area where so little time was spent. So, I believe they claim/theorize she was killed at PTL because it's the only location where they can reasonably hope to place all three parties together on the timeline, and coinciding where the victim's phone activity abruptly ended.

But, even if Heather drove to the landing and made those calls, and I'm not convinced she did, I doubt that TM would go through such an all nighter rodeo to gain access to her victim, then be satisfied with a swift and straightforward end after Heather barely got out of her car. I believe TM would have preferred an environment over which she had total control and would contain evidence in a manner that was easier to clear, and that would not be PTL in the dark, nor would it be any place where someone might come upon the scene or hear commotion. I think LE will have to deal with all these issues at trial.
 
They will have a record of the phone calls to Sidney's phone and he should be able to pinpoint which numbers were used by Heather. If you look at the timeline, Heather waited an hour before calling the payphone back and another 45 minutes before calling Sidney's phone. That implies to me that she was hesitant but didn't know any other way to reach him. IMO Tammy's rage was fueled by reading Heather's old social media posts. IMO when TM realized that the affair was very public, she was horrified that all the co-workers and friends of Heather knew about it. Heather posted openly about it for quite some time. Tammy is obviously a narcissist and the public affair struck a blow to her perfect image.

Our original SM thread has been restored and this thread contains allot of Heather's posting on social media and Tammy's Disney board posts.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...r-Elvis-case-social-media-discussion-1/page58
 
magnolia said:
The defense stated Heather called Sidney from other phones. Also stated she left notes on Sidney's vehicle. Maybe they have some proof of this. Maybe they don't. It's really difficult for me to believe the Moorer's had their harrass HE moments with no communication from Heather at all. The defense just confirmed what I already believed. Same position on the payphone call from Sidney. I do not believe it was an out of the blue phone call. We don't know what transpired earlier in the day or the days leading up to the phone call. Whatever went on, it's obvious Heather was not intimidated as she agreed to meet Sidney at PTL. It seems she was also comfortable calling his cell phone several times after arriving at PTL.

Are we sure Tammy was not present during the questioning? I believe it was stated during the bond hearing she was present. IMO

I am anxious to hear the testimony of the roommate. I don't mean to imply she is not telling the truth. However, she stated Heather was upset. I can't ignore that Sidney's version of the conversation fits HE's emotional response the best. Hoping the roommate can shed some light on why HE was upset because Sidney was leaving his wife and wanted to be with her.

There is more to this story than what has been told by the State. I am anxious to hear more from the other side. Maybe they can help make the pieces of the puzzle fit.
Click to expand...
BBM

BW did an interview with Dateline NBC around March 2014. It has yet to air. Wondering why? LE?

Maybe it was for this piece but was edited out?

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/dateline/54206699#54206699

Updated: looks like date of video posted above was published January 28, 2014
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 135 more.
Total: 2,126 (members: 136, guests: 1,990)

Online statistics

Members online
136
Guests online
1,990
Total visitors
2,126
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
605,315
Messages
18,185,619
Members
233,313
Latest member
carzytoaster
Back
Top