EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[CellarDoor]

Are the dates on those texts correct? HE was already gone by then.

Yes, but my point is that SM's phrasing could lead one to believe he actually DID "choose" Heather (as opposed to it being a ruse created to lure her to PTL). SM could be apologizing to TM for choosing HE over her.

 

[NFYIAMY]

Peterthomasfan, I don't think anyone could ever accuse you of coming up with far fetched plans. What you say makes alot of sense to me most of the time.

Of course, I can't account for everything, but when it comes to the phone call i simply think that perhaps he was out working nearby to the 10th ave payphone, decided to call her to see if they could meet again. To follow my theory though, I think you'd have to believe it wasn't pre-meditated...at least not YET anyway. I do think at some point TM and SM planned this, but i tend to just think it was planned once TM intercepted those phone calls to SM's phone once HE couldn't reach him on the pay phone. My theory doesn't even come close to explaining why HE would call a payphone back though, so i'm lost when it comes to that part.

Has there ever been anything - as to where TM & SM said they were say from 9 p.m. - 3 a.m. that night? Specifically I mean? (Out to dinner, etc).



Also - to go along with a couple of others with different theories......since SM used the payphone at the gas station that sits right on a 'strip' of gentlemen's clubs --- anyone ever wonder if he had been at one - might've been drinking.... decided to call his 'girl'.... <<---Just a thought that came into my mind -- as I read (like one person posted) if TM had tracked him and showed up and took his truck and left him stranded.....it was a very short walk to that payphone....

 

[Madeleine74]

Has there ever been anything - as to where TM & SM said they were say from 9 p.m. - 3 a.m. that night? Specifically I mean? (Out to dinner, etc).

Nothing published for the public to see. Probably was asked by LE during their interviews with the M's.

 

[Surfside]

Has there ever been anything - as to where TM & SM said they were say from 9 p.m. - 3 a.m. that night? Specifically I mean? (Out to dinner, etc).



Also - to go along with a couple of others with different theories......since SM used the payphone at the gas station that sits right on a 'strip' of gentlemen's clubs --- anyone ever wonder if he had been at one - might've been drinking.... decided to call his 'girl'.... <<---Just a thought that came into my mind -- as I read (like one person posted) if TM had tracked him and showed up and took his truck and left him stranded.....it was a very short walk to that payphone....

BBM: HAHA! Pun intended, I'm assuming. :great:

I hadn't thought about him being at a strip club, but that payphone sure is in the backyard of many of them.

 

[magnolia]

I think I know what you are saying now. Correct me if I'm wrong. The comments from you and @meinmyrtlebeach and your question is based off of the "original" timeline, right?:

2:29AM - Heather attempts to call the number Sidney called from (which is a pay phone) several times but, there is no answer.

3:16AM - Heather attempts to call Sidney's mobile phone with no response.

3:17AM - Heather calls Sidney's phone and has a 4:15 minutes conversation with Sidney. Heather is at her home at this point. Sidney is at his home which is approx. 3 miles from the boat landing. After this conversation, Heather gets into her car and drives directly to Peachtree Boat Landing. Sidney also denies this conversation until police confront him with Heather's phone record and then he says he did talk to her but it was just to tell her to quit calling and leave them alone.

...where SM is at his home and Heather is at her apartment.

So, Heather calls pay phone several times and doesn't get an answer. She then calls SM's mobile phone (which she probably knew he didn't have from previous pay phone convo and also the risk of TM answering, waking her up, or her finding out that she is the one calling?) to have another chat with SM? Only to have him talk her into meeting him at PTL?

So, she jumps up, gets in her car, and drives herself to PTL to meet SM. Heather then calls SM 4 times until he arrives at PTL at 3:41AM where he kills her immediately, places her in his truck, and drives away in under 3 minutes time.

That version?

So, why didn't SM go to Heather's apartment (from the compound) instead of meeting her at PTL?

Simple. I just don't see that version fitting any longer.

IMO, SM and TM were stalking Heather all day and night. When Heather was finished with her date and at home, they knew and that's when their plan played out.

They were already near Broadway at the Beach and Heather's apartment. Why would they drive 10 miles home or in that direction? The pay phone was a short distance from Heather's apartment (a 6 minute drive).

With the times remaining the same and calls to the respective phones, the thing that is still uncertain (and theoretically possible) is that Heather was not in control of her phone later in the night (after 2:29AM).

I just don't think the "original" timeline is completely valid anymore. I think it was an easy "lure" for SM to make his way to Heather's apartment and then ask her for a ride home. Then, along the way, he said to go to PTL for a talk or just to drop him there and he would walk the rest of way.

Sorry for rambling. Long day and brain is drained.

Yes, I'm going by the original timeline posted in the timeline thread.
-------
Wednesday, Dec 18:
&#8226; 1:35am: SM called Heather from a pay phone on 10th Avenue North; the call lasted 4.83 minutes

&#8226; 1:44am: From her apartment, Heather called her roommate BW, who was in Florida, and spoke for 2.2 minutes; was crying and upset after the call from SM because she was trying to get her life back together after her affair with him and harassment by TM

&#8226; 1:53-2:09am: Ten posts were made to Heather's Tumblr

&#8226; 2:29am: Heather tried to call SM back at the pay phone number several times, but no one answered

&#8226; 3:16am: Heather tried to call SM's cell phone, no answer

&#8226; 3:17am: Heather called SM's cell phone and spoke with someone for 4.15 minutes; Heather's and SM's phones were each at their own homes at this point

&#8226; ~3:21am: Heather drove from her apartment to Peachtree Landing
--------

I believe you are basing your theory on the murder being planned before Sidney placed the payphone call at 1:35. Have you considered the murder may have been planned after that time? You are also basing your theory on a stalking scenario. My explanation of why Sidney failed to take advantage of Heather being alone in the apt. is not based on that theory. To the best of my knowledge, LE has never stated stalking is a part of their theory nor have they ever stated Heather was not in control of her phone before she was murdered. They have also never stated what time they believe Heather was lured out of her apt. Have you considered the murder was planned at some point after the payphone call at 1:35? Have you considered the plan to meet at PTL was first discussed shortly before Heather left for PTL at 3:21. Have you considered the communications via social media. LE is confident Heather drove herself to PTL? All that said, I cannot say LE's version of their PTL theory is no longer valid.

Edited to add:
This is not to say my opinion might not differ from parts of LE's theory they can't prove. I just happen to believe they have pretty solid proof Heather left her apt. at approximately 3:21 and drove herself to PTL.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Yes, I'm going by the original timeline posted in the timeline thread.
-------
Wednesday, Dec 18:
• 1:35am: SM called Heather from a pay phone on 10th Avenue North; the call lasted 4.83 minutes

• 1:44am: From her apartment, Heather called her roommate BW, who was in Florida, and spoke for 2.2 minutes; was crying and upset after the call from SM because she was trying to get her life back together after her affair with him and harassment by TM

• 1:53-2:09am: Ten posts were made to Heather's Tumblr

• 2:29am: Heather tried to call SM back at the pay phone number several times, but no one answered

• 3:16am: Heather tried to call SM's cell phone, no answer

• 3:17am: Heather called SM's cell phone and spoke with someone for 4.15 minutes; Heather's and SM's phones were each at their own homes at this point

• ~3:21am: Heather drove from her apartment to Peachtree Landing
--------

I believe you are basing your theory on the murder being planned before Sidney placed the payphone call at 1:35. Have you considered the murder may have been planned after that time? You are also basing your theory on a stalking scenario. My explanation of why Sidney failed to take advantage of Heather being alone in the apt. is not based on that theory. To the best of my knowledge, LE has never stated stalking is a part of their theory nor have they ever stated Heather was not in control of her phone before she was murdered. They have also never stated what time they believe Heather was lured out of her apt. Have you considered the murder was planned at some point after the payphone call at 1:35? Have you considered the plan to meet at PTL was first discussed shortly before Heather left for PTL at 3:21. Have you considered the communications via social media. LE is confident Heather drove herself to PTL? All that said, I cannot say LE's version of their PTL theory is no longer valid.

I will respond then. I have to actually get some work done first. :/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Sorry for any typos!

 

[jillycat]

LE has never said a lot of things - what motivated her to go to PTL, how she was killed so quickly upon arriving there, where she went afterwards, etc.

I think it's worth considering that what LE hasn't said is a result of simply not knowing. They have to have a theory that correlates to the timeline they have, which is extremely narrow. They've provided that and that's what they'll take to court. The rest will be more circumstantial elements that the defense has already indicated it intends to dismantle as just that - theory.

I don't think we can presume what happened, or didn't, based on a lack of statements by LE.

 

[lstiff]

Is there any reason to believe HE called the payphone on accident? I know sometimes I hit send from the last time I spoke to someone and realize that I called the wrong person/number. If SM wasn't saved as a contact in her phone (no clue if she would have deleted him out of contacts or if he was ever saved as a contact) then it would be easy to do. Then she calls his cell phone, I mean why would she call back a payphone unless in the conversation she told him she needed to think about "it" and call him back. I assume she would hear background noise or realize he wasn't inside? Maybe not. I still go back to my old theory of cigarette butts. If HE is a smoker, there may or may not be evidence at PTL of that. IF we go with LE idea that she drove herself, how long was she there before the M's truck showed up? Is or was SM a smoker? If he was hiding out at PTL or HE apt waiting for TM surely he would need a smoke. The sad thing is like PTF stated, PTL was not picked through with a fine tooth comb right away. That may be the biggest tragedy of all in this investigation. ETA: not in the entire case (that is obviously the loss of HE) but in the investigation. Just wanted to be clear of my meaning.

So many murder cases have been solved by cigarette butts. IMO and all that jazz.

Sorry to the poster who has strep throat. I am recovering from the flu so my posts probably make little no sense.

 

[Dixie E]

The Horry County police chief said over a dozen search warrants had been executed since Dec 18, and several polygraphs had been administered.

I know they won`t stand up in court, but, I wonder if SM and TM took one if they passed or failed.

 

[lstiff]

The Horry County police chief said over a dozen search warrants had been executed since Dec 18, and several polygraphs had been administered.

I know they won`t stand up in court, but, I wonder if SM and TM took one if they passed or failed.

IIRC TM has said previously that SM took one but I'm not certain if that is true or where the MSM link is posted.

 

[NFYIAMY]

Is there any reason to believe HE called the payphone on accident? I know sometimes I hit send from the last time I spoke to someone and realize that I called the wrong person/number. If SM wasn't saved as a contact in her phone (no clue if she would have deleted him out of contacts or if he was ever saved as a contact) then it would be easy to do. Then she calls his cell phone, I mean why would she call back a payphone unless in the conversation she told him she needed to think about "it" and call him back. I assume she would hear background noise or realize he wasn't inside? Maybe not. I still go back to my old theory of cigarette butts. If HE is a smoker, there may or may not be evidence at PTL of that. IF we go with LE idea that she drove herself, how long was she there before the M's truck showed up? Is or was SM a smoker? If he was hiding out at PTL or HE apt waiting for TM surely he would need a smoke. The sad thing is like PTF stated, PTL was not picked through with a fine tooth comb right away. That may be the biggest tragedy of all in this investigation. ETA: not in the entire case (that is obviously the loss of HE) but in the investigation. Just wanted to be clear of my meaning.

So many murder cases have been solved by cigarette butts. IMO and all that jazz.

Sorry to the poster who has strep throat. I am recovering from the flu so my posts probably make little no sense.

She called her roommate after talking to SM on the payphone. The payphone would not have been the 'last dialed' anymore....

 

[Happyshoes]

She called her roommate after talking to SM on the payphone. The payphone would not have been the 'last dialed' anymore....

She would have the payphone under "incoming calls" - her roommate was probably on speed dial.

 

[MerBeach]

I wonder about the polygraphs, too. You would think that if TM and SM took them and passed, she would have loved posting that all over social media, etc.


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[Happyshoes]

Is there any reason to believe HE called the payphone on accident? I know sometimes I hit send from the last time I spoke to someone and realize that I called the wrong person/number. If SM wasn't saved as a contact in her phone (no clue if she would have deleted him out of contacts or if he was ever saved as a contact) then it would be easy to do. Then she calls his cell phone, I mean why would she call back a payphone unless in the conversation she told him she needed to think about "it" and call him back. I assume she would hear background noise or realize he wasn't inside? Maybe not. I still go back to my old theory of cigarette butts. If HE is a smoker, there may or may not be evidence at PTL of that. IF we go with LE idea that she drove herself, how long was she there before the M's truck showed up? Is or was SM a smoker? If he was hiding out at PTL or HE apt waiting for TM surely he would need a smoke. The sad thing is like PTF stated, PTL was not picked through with a fine tooth comb right away. That may be the biggest tragedy of all in this investigation. ETA: not in the entire case (that is obviously the loss of HE) but in the investigation. Just wanted to be clear of my meaning.

So many murder cases have been solved by cigarette butts. IMO and all that jazz.

Sorry to the poster who has strep throat. I am recovering from the flu so my posts probably make little no sense.

I think that's a good thought about the cigarettes. We have seen that before, good source of dna in most cases. And yes, I think she called the pay phone back, too from her incoming call list. Usually pay phones (from what I remember) will sound like a fax machine, they are not set up for incoming calls. So when she couldn't get him that way, she finally called his cell. I'm just having a hard time imagining what took her so long to make up her mind to meet him. She posts on Tumblr for an hour, what was she waiting on? And still wonder why he didn't go to her apartment. Makes me think they were trying to lure her out of her place and into the secluded PTL area. Sadly, I think she really cared for SM. I am the one with strep and am practically delusional when I sleep and barely present when I'm awake, thanks for the sympathy. It's a rough ride!

 

[Happyshoes]

I wonder about the polygraphs, too. You would think that if TM and SM took them and passed, she would have loved posting that all over social media, etc.


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Yes, she sure would have. Personally, I don't think either one of them could have passed a polygraph and I think they would have been afraid to take one.

 

[SeeAlice]

I think that's a good thought about the cigarettes. We have seen that before, good source of dna in most cases. And yes, I think she called the pay phone back, too from her incoming call list. Usually pay phones (from what I remember) will sound like a fax machine, they are not set up for incoming calls. So when she couldn't get him that way, she finally called his cell. I'm just having a hard time imagining what took her so long to make up her mind to meet him. She posts on Tumblr for an hour, what was she waiting on? And still wonder why he didn't go to her apartment. Makes me think they were trying to lure her out of her place and into the secluded PTL area. Sadly, I think she really cared for SM. I am the one with strep and am practically delusional when I sleep and barely present when I'm awake, thanks for the sympathy. It's a rough ride!

Sorry you two are not feeling well. Hope you will be soon.

How did HE & SM hook up and how "serious" did the relationship seem to be? She was so attractive that I can't imagine what her attraction was to him. The M's didn't seem very well-off to me. He just doesn't seem to be all that to me.

 

[TTF14]

Sorry you two are not feeling well. Hope you will be soon.

How did HE & SM hook up and how "serious" did the relationship seem to be? She was so attractive that I can't imagine what her attraction was to him. The M's didn't seem very well-off to me. He just doesn't seem to be all that to me.

I agree, although we've never interacted with him. Perhaps his personality made up for his lack in the looks department???

 

[SeeAlice]

I agree, although we've never interacted with him. Perhaps his personality made up for his lack in the looks department???

Magnetic personality or pheromones, perhaps? Still very curious. She sounds like a lovely young woman, inside & out. I think I read that her best friend quit school and moved away and her whole life has pretty much been derailed. Very tragic for so many.

 

[magnolia]

LE has never said a lot of things - what motivated her to go to PTL, how she was killed so quickly upon arriving there, where she went afterwards, etc.

I think it's worth considering that what LE hasn't said is a result of simply not knowing. They have to have a theory that correlates to the timeline they have, which is extremely narrow. They've provided that and that's what they'll take to court. The rest will be more circumstantial elements that the defense has already indicated it intends to dismantle as just that - theory.

I don't think we can presume what happened, or didn't, based on a lack of statements by LE.

BBM-In regards to the "killed at apt" theory, my focus is on what LE has said and a statement they have made.

Police do believe that Elvis drove herself to the Peachtree Boat Landing. They don&#8217;t think she was abducted from her River Oaks apartment.

Investigators reached that conclusion after reviewing communications Elvis made through social media, but investigators haven&#8217;t said why Elvis drove herself to the boat landing.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crim...7a43b2370.html
​

 

[bestill]

I don't see what Heather saw in SM and I surely don't see what SM saw in TM. Ick.