EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

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This is what you said above:

"Telling Heather "I'm leaving my wife" doesn't mean he was rid of Tammy at that very moment. It's obvious to me, Sidney had to wait until TM was out of the way. My guess is he was waiting until she was tucked in fast asleep. This is what makes the most sense to me."

I'm sorry, did you mean that you guess that he was waiting for her to be out of the way/asleep, or did you mean that you guess he was claiming to be waiting for her to be out of the way/asleep? When I read your post, it does not read as if you meant the latter.

You were right. I did not mean the latter.

If the murder was not planned and Sidney had no ulterior motive,I think my post was a reasonable explanation why Sidney did not go to Heather's apt.
 
You were right. I did not mean the latter.

If the murder was not planned and Sidney had no ulterior motive,I think my post was a reasonable explanation why Sidney did not go to Heather's apt.

Ah well, no matter because it appears I was responding to another poster, thinking it was you...and she discussed the issue of SM contriving the tale of waiting for TM to fall asleep.

So never mind that, and possibly another post. Geez, one error leads to more.

Anyway, all I'm saying is, I think there are scenarios involving the condo or an area close to it, that are as reasonable as the PTL scenario, and possibly more.
 
SM called Heather from a pay phone that was just a 6 minute drive from her apartment! Out of sheer convenience for both parties, why drive to a location 10 miles away?

It was stated by Heather's date that she was tired when he dropped her off. So, why would she head out again? And, drive 20 minutes one-way?

To me, Occums Razor starts with the "lure" phone call close to Heather's apartment. Otherwise, why not call from a pay phone near PTL? The evidence of the times of phone calls fit with the movements of the M's and HE IMO.

I do not have a solid theory yet on how Heather was killed or where her body is located exactly but, with what we know, I am more convinced that it started closer to Heather's apartment than PTL. Then (at some point), her body was dumped someplace that no one would find her. I personally am not making up any far-fetched theories. At least I don't think I am. I am actually trying to make more sense from what we do know. If they don't make sense to you then respectively, scroll on. :blah:

So, the simplest theory for me would be call > kill > dump. Not call > meet > kill > dump.

And not call, drive back home, and create a need for > several call backs > another to the cell > and another> talk more > call back as she drove, call back, call again > then quick meet up, end phone capability, kill, dump.

What you're saying is exactly what's made the most sense to me all along. I don't have a solid theory either on where they killed her or how, or where she went afterwards, but I think the presumed theory all this time is upside down. Or backwards.
 
Peterthomasfan, I don't think anyone could ever accuse you of coming up with far fetched plans. What you say makes alot of sense to me most of the time.

Of course, I can't account for everything, but when it comes to the phone call i simply think that perhaps he was out working nearby to the 10th ave payphone, decided to call her to see if they could meet again. To follow my theory though, I think you'd have to believe it wasn't pre-meditated...at least not YET anyway. I do think at some point TM and SM planned this, but i tend to just think it was planned once TM intercepted those phone calls to SM's phone once HE couldn't reach him on the pay phone. My theory doesn't even come close to explaining why HE would call a payphone back though, so i'm lost when it comes to that part.

Thanks! :blushing:

You did get me thinking though. And again, I hate "what-ifs" but it still fits the timeline. What if TM dropped SM off at Heather's apartment and the TM drove straight back to the compound. Then, SM gets a ride with Heather home. He could have easily made up some story about not having a vehicle and needed a ride home. Maybe he even said he walked from pay phone. Even if Heather was tired, I'm sure she didn't want him staying there so she offered to drive him. SM could have used Heather's phone to call TM saying that he'll be home soon or whatever. So, that would account for Heather's phone pinging from her apartment and SM's phone pinging at the M's. The timeline below would also support Heather driving to PTL and being killed there as well.

2:29AM - 3AM(EST.) - TM drops SM off at or near Heather's apartment.

2:29AM - 2:39AM(EST.) - TM enroute to M's (501 N > 31 W > 544 N > HWY 814).

3:16AM - SM uses Heather's phone to call TM (on SM's mobile phone) with no response.

3:17AM - Again, SM calls TM using Heather's phone and they have a 4:15 minutes conversation. SM says he'll be home soon (or something to suggest that their plan is in action).

3:17AM - Heather and SM drive to PTL (501 N > Forestbrook Rd. > Dick Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.).

3:36AM - A private residence video surveillance captures a vehicle coming from the direction of M's heading towards the boat landing. This camera is 1.7 miles from the M's residence.

3:37AM - Heather and SM arrive at PTL and Heather is killed. [Although this doesn't leave much time to kill someone, it is still possible]

3:38AM - SM attempts to call TM 4 times (3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41).

3:39AM - A business video surveillance a mile from the first camera closer to the landing captures this vehicle still proceeding in the direction of the boat landing.

3:41AM - TM arrives at PTL. Heather's body is placed in the back of truck, battery is pulled from Heather's phone and Heather's phone data ends at that point.
 
I actually have been in contact FWIW.

Did they ever respond to your question as to why they never cordoned off that area as a crime scene the moment they realized a crime had been committed and PTL was "ground zero" in this case?
 
The 20/20 hindsight comment I made upstream was specifically and only about one criticism: that LE allowed Terry Elvis to drive Heather's car away from PTL that night. At that time on 12/19/13 when TE picked up the car, no one knew Heather was missing or that a crime had been committed in which she was killed. I didn't comment on any other part of the investigation or talk about any other time.

However, my assumption remains that people do what they can with information they have at the time. That doesn't mean mistakes are never made, nor would I claim any such thing.
 
The 20/20 hindsight comment I made upstream was specifically and only about one criticism: that LE allowed Terry Elvis to drive Heather's car away from PTL that night. At that time on 12/19/13 when TE picked up the car, no one knew Heather was missing or that a crime had been committed in which she was killed. I didn't comment on any other part of the investigation or talk about any other time.

However, my assumption remains that people do what they can with information they have at the time. That doesn't mean mistakes are never made, nor would I claim any such thing.

Understood what you were getting at but according to the police report / timeline of events, they did suspect a crime was committed! Granted, TE drove the car home and then filed the report...

Thursday, Dec 19:

• 8:39pm: The abandoned vehicle call officially became a missing persons case

• 11:10pm: TE filed a missing person report
 
SM called Heather from a pay phone that was just a 6 minute drive from her apartment! Out of sheer convenience for both parties, why drive to a location 10 miles away?

It was stated by Heather's date that she was tired when he dropped her off. So, why would she head out again? And, drive 20 minutes one-way?

To me, Occums Razor starts with the "lure" phone call close to Heather's apartment. Otherwise, why not call from a pay phone near PTL? The evidence of the times of phone calls fit with the movements of the M's and HE IMO.

I do not have a solid theory yet on how Heather was killed or where her body is located exactly but, with what we know, I am more convinced that it started closer to Heather's apartment than PTL. Then (at some point), her body was dumped someplace that no one would find her. I personally am not making up any far-fetched theories. At least I don't think I am. I am actually trying to make more sense from what we do know. If they don't make sense to you then respectively, scroll on. :blah:

So, the simplest theory for me would be call > kill > dump. Not call > meet > kill > dump.

PTF, I assume you haven't considered the explanations that have been given for why Sidney didn't go the apartment. Mind sharing why? Just curious.
 
PTF, I assume you haven't considered the explanations that have been given for why Sidney didn't go the apartment. Mind sharing why? Just curious.

I might be guilty of the scroll and roll tactic myself. Can you clue me in on a few of them so I can reply?
 
Ah well, no matter because it appears I was responding to another poster, thinking it was you...and she discussed the issue of SM contriving the tale of waiting for TM to fall asleep.

So never mind that, and possibly another post. Geez, one error leads to more.

Anyway, all I'm saying is, I think there are scenarios involving the condo or an area close to it, that are as reasonable as the PTL scenario, and possibly more.

I think LE is pretty confident Heather drove herself to PTL. I think they concluded this after reviewing the communications via social media. IMO
 
I remember a while back that I read where BWs driver`s license was found on the front seat in Hs car when they found it parked at PTL. Does anyone else remember that?
 
I remember something like that being discussed, but I don't know if it was established or just speculated upon...
 
I'm thinking like a weasel right now. If he were trying to get out of his house...perhaps waiting for TM to fall asleep, or sneaking out while she was in the other room or whatever...then a quick, short trip to PTL to do whatever two adults might do on a dead end street at 3am, or even just a hug since it had been a long time since they'd seen each other. I don't know.

To me, that makes perfect sense and is the simplest theory. Of course, if there is no significant other to worry about, then yes...it would be stupid to meet at PTL when there is a perfectly good apt that is empty to meet at. But with a significant other at home, the drive from the Moorers over to HE apt is at least 20 minutes or so one way. Much easier to drive 3 minutes down to PTL(at least for him anyway).

<REDACTED>

Thank-you meinmyrtlebeach. That is exactly my thoughts on it. Some keep insisting Heather was alone in the apartment. Therefore, there was nothing to prevent Sidney from coming there. Telling Heather "I'm leaving my wife" doesn't mean he was rid of Tammy at that very moment. It's obvious to me, Sidney had to wait until TM was out of the way. My guess is he was waiting until she was tucked in fast asleep. This is what makes the most sense to me.

PTF, I assume you haven't considered the explanations that have been given for why Sidney didn't go the apartment. Mind sharing why? Just curious.

Post #1147 and #1156

I think I know what you are saying now. Correct me if I'm wrong. The comments from you and @meinmyrtlebeach and your question is based off of the "original" timeline, right?:

2:29AM - Heather attempts to call the number Sidney called from (which is a pay phone) several times but, there is no answer.

3:16AM - Heather attempts to call Sidney's mobile phone with no response.

3:17AM - Heather calls Sidney's phone and has a 4:15 minutes conversation with Sidney. Heather is at her home at this point. Sidney is at his home which is approx. 3 miles from the boat landing. After this conversation, Heather gets into her car and drives directly to Peachtree Boat Landing. Sidney also denies this conversation until police confront him with Heather's phone record and then he says he did talk to her but it was just to tell her to quit calling and leave them alone.

...where SM is at his home and Heather is at her apartment.

So, Heather calls pay phone several times and doesn't get an answer. She then calls SM's mobile phone (which she probably knew he didn't have from previous pay phone convo and also the risk of TM answering, waking her up, or her finding out that she is the one calling?) to have another chat with SM? Only to have him talk her into meeting him at PTL?

So, she jumps up, gets in her car, and drives herself to PTL to meet SM. Heather then calls SM 4 times until he arrives at PTL at 3:41AM where he kills her immediately, places her in his truck, and drives away in under 3 minutes time.

That version?

So, why didn't SM go to Heather's apartment (from the compound) instead of meeting her at PTL?

Simple. I just don't see that version fitting any longer.

IMO, SM and TM were stalking Heather all day and night. When Heather was finished with her date and at home, they knew and that's when their plan played out.

They were already near Broadway at the Beach and Heather's apartment. Why would they drive 10 miles home or in that direction? The pay phone was a short distance from Heather's apartment (a 6 minute drive).

With the times remaining the same and calls to the respective phones, the thing that is still uncertain (and theoretically possible) is that Heather was not in control of her phone later in the night (after 2:29AM).

I just don't think the "original" timeline is completely valid anymore. I think it was an easy "lure" for SM to make his way to Heather's apartment and then ask her for a ride home. Then, along the way, he said to go to PTL for a talk or just to drop him there and he would walk the rest of way.

Sorry for rambling. Long day and brain is drained.
 
They were already near Broadway at the Beach and Heather's apartment. Why would they drive 10 miles home or in that direction? The pay phone was a short distance from Heather's apartment (a 6 minute drive).


So did they leave SM's cell phone at the compound? The state said that's where SM's phone was at 3:17am. They allege SM was at home, but to make it more precise, SM's cell phone was at his home at 3:17am.
 
Just finished watching season 2 of "The Fall" (staring Gillian Anderson) last night on Netflix. Great show!

I'd freak out every time they were at a crime scene in the show because, they would wear full bunny suits, gloves, booties, and face masks.

"Now that's how you investigate a crime scene correctly!"

p01b1h2s.jpg
 
So did they leave SM's cell phone at the compound? The state said that's where SM's phone was at 3:17am. They allege SM was at home, but to make it more precise, SM's cell phone was at his home at 3:17am.

I theorized earlier that by that time, TM was at the compound with SM's phone. Just because his phone was at his home doesn't necessarily mean that he was IMO.
 
Thanks! :blushing:

You did get me thinking though. And again, I hate "what-ifs" but it still fits the timeline. What if TM dropped SM off at Heather's apartment and the TM drove straight back to the compound. Then, SM gets a ride with Heather home. He could have easily made up some story about not having a vehicle and needed a ride home. Maybe he even said he walked from pay phone. Even if Heather was tired, I'm sure she didn't want him staying there so she offered to drive him. SM could have used Heather's phone to call TM saying that he'll be home soon or whatever. So, that would account for Heather's phone pinging from her apartment and SM's phone pinging at the M's. The timeline below would also support Heather driving to PTL and being killed there as well.

2:29AM - 3AM(EST.) - TM drops SM off at or near Heather's apartment.

2:29AM - 2:39AM(EST.) - TM enroute to M's (501 N > 31 W > 544 N > HWY 814).

3:16AM - SM uses Heather's phone to call TM (on SM's mobile phone) with no response.

3:17AM - Again, SM calls TM using Heather's phone and they have a 4:15 minutes conversation. SM says he'll be home soon (or something to suggest that their plan is in action).

3:17AM - Heather and SM drive to PTL (501 N > Forestbrook Rd. > Dick Pond Rd. > Peachtree Rd.).

3:36AM - A private residence video surveillance captures a vehicle coming from the direction of M's heading towards the boat landing. This camera is 1.7 miles from the M's residence.

3:37AM - Heather and SM arrive at PTL and Heather is killed. [Although this doesn't leave much time to kill someone, it is still possible]

3:38AM - SM attempts to call TM 4 times (3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41).

3:39AM - A business video surveillance a mile from the first camera closer to the landing captures this vehicle still proceeding in the direction of the boat landing.

3:41AM - TM arrives at PTL. Heather's body is placed in the back of truck, battery is pulled from Heather's phone and Heather's phone data ends at that point.
Not disagreeing with this time line at all, but I just wanted to add or maybe just "put this out there."
If I found out that my husband was cheating, and IF we did get into an argument, and he didn't come home from work at the time I was expecting him to come home, the first pthing I would do is get a friend to drive me to look for his vehicle at him mistress's house. If I had a key to his vehicle, I would drive it home, leaving him on foot. (Ha ha) if his phone was inside the vehicle, (probably to avoid his angry wife's phone calls) he would be left with no choice except to call his wife's phone from his mistress's phone.
If I were cheating on my spouse, I would ask to be brought somewhere else, so that I would have an escape or way out of being caught undeniably with the person I was cheating with or at his house. I might say "I was just taking a walk to clear my head. I was not anywhere near where my vehicle was parked".
Or if my angry spouse had finally answered my calls from "the phone I borrowed from a passerby," and cursed me out and screamed, I might then ask my "mistress" to bring me somewhere within walking distance of my house. so that way I could act like I had walked all that way, and pull a guilt trip on my angry spouse for going get my vehicle and leaving me on foot.
JUST SPECULATION, MOO
 
All in all, imo, I think it's possible that HE may have been unknowingly and unwillingly dragged into an argument that was between SM and TM

Also the repeated phone calls to his phone may have been in an attempt to FIND HIS OWN PHONE. speculation only....because when I misplace my phone, I get one of my kids to call it so that it will ring and I can find it. But that's just speculation. possibly, at that point, he was wondering if he had his phone, or if he had left it in his truck. Or speculation only, possibly trying to reach TM who he knew took his truck with his phone in it, which could imo, could explain why HE's phone could have called SM's phone moo. I'm not sure but I think that some of this might fit in with the timeline that peter thomas fan had posted.

Also, we have at&t, and we have the family map app, so that we can track the whereabouts of any phones on our plan. I would imagine that would come in quite "handy" in the case of a cheating spouse. Also, speculation only, it could be a way to locate the whereabouts of a phone that was left in a vehicle at another place other than the place the person would be.... SPECULATION ONLY.... had he left his phone in his truck at work to try to make his spouse think he was still at work....OR....SPECULATION ONLY, if his phone was still on him, that could possibly be how she "tracked" SM's phone itself to PTL....imo, he could have claimed that the reason he didn't answer is that he was busy at work, and imo, all the while TM could have possibly known better the whole while because she could have been "tracking" his phone the whole night/morning.
 
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