Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[Frigga]

Ann Rule did not just write books:



Bourne certainly seems to trust that Rule knows what she is talking about:



Rule is also correct about Dina and her numerous witnesses.

Bourne wrote that post in 2012- well before anyone knew that Ann Rule was in the late stages of Alzheimer's.

 

[SweetT]

Totally my opinion after reading the back and forth about the "rope binding how-to book" and "Rebecca's office...."

1st... It is hard for me to believe that Rebecca had an "office." What was the office for? Most people lounge in a communal family room to leisurely surf the web.
I wonder who described it as "Rebecca's office?"

2nd... When did this book supposedly come to "light" I would wonder. It never seems to have been mentioned previously.
Would the Sheriff's office not have brought it up immediately to make themselves look like they actually did a good job?

Because if you have someone "characterizing" things in a certain kind of way then it almost seems like someone twisting a story (for example calling
a random guest room a murder victim's "office" would seem the person wanted you to believe only that person went in there instead of drawing their own
conclusion as to the room.

And if a book was later "discovered" then it occurs to me that its possible someone heard about the "nautical knots" (which they were) and needed a way
to explain why anyone would tie a rope in such a way (not the ordinary lay person way). Then they conveniently "find" this book.

When things like that start to pile up, it almost seems like behind the scenes someone is crafting a story because they want to evade authorities.

As Nina famously said in her interview (and I paraphrase)... if someone I knew had been hurt I would want to give all the help I could (and in my mind, making
up stories would not be a help).

Again... where do these strange informations come from? The book, the story of Max having cardiac arrest, the room becoming "Rebecca's office?"

My husband and I have an office, we don't lounge around in a communal room surfing the web..just saying. Not all people do that. Also I wouldn't be as someone on a jury to say one way or another that a book had anything to do with someone knowing how to tie knots or not. Or that someone who was going to kill someone would be stupid enough to bring a book to the murder scene. Just sayin. I would have to know for sure who the book belonged to, who bought it or whatever if it was going to be used to prove something in a case ..JMO.

 

[screecher]

My point is....this money I'm giving you is for basics. Rent, utilities, gas, insurance for vehicle.

 

[Imp]

My husband and I have an office, we don't lounge around in a communal room surfing the web..just saying. Not all people do that. Also I wouldn't be as someone on a jury to say one way or another that a book had anything to do with someone knowing how to tie knots or not. Or that someone who was going to kill someone would be stupid enough to bring a book to the murder scene. Just sayin. I would have to know for sure who the book belonged to, who bought it or whatever if it was going to be used to prove something in a case ..JMO.

I don't know whether or not RZ had an office at Spreckels, and it's not particularly relevant, however, this was a second home used only for several weeks in the summer, as far as I know. Since Jonah, RZ and the kids were presumably vacationing, and since RZ didn't have a home-based business that required her constant attention, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense she had a dedicated office at Jonah's summer home.

IMO, the suggestion that she had an office in the mansion, and a book on rope tying, is a deliberate attempt to have readers draw a mental picture of RZ studying her "rope book" in her "office" in preparation to kill herself. It's nonsense, IMO, but the intent seems rather transparent, at least to me.

If indeed the book exists, and if it was anywhere near the room in which RZ was tied up, wouldn't it have been swell if SDSO actually took the thing into evidence and then checked it for fingerprints and DNA? That way, as jurors, we could consider it or dismiss it based on more than hearsay that it exists.

But no, of course, that would be asking too much of Rebecca's "death investigators." A book on rope tying found in the room where a dead woman was tied up with ropes would be of no interest to team Gore. I can hear Lt. Larry now, "I know, beyond a shadow of [the] doubt, without even testing it, that the rope tying book is not relevant to the case."

/sarcasm off

 

[LuckyLucy2]

- The book was taken into evidence. They collected ,more than 150 items.

- One of Rebecca's stories was that Max had a heart attack.

- That the room was RZ's office/guest room was in the press conference and in the reports, and in Ann Rule's book.

(Thanks to Lash for finding this quote.)

---“Jonah Shacknai’s mansion had five stories. The lowest level was the basement; the first floor/main level consisted of a foyer, living room, sunroom, dining room, sitting area, butler’s pantry, kitchen, laundry room, and a half bath. The second floor had two bedrooms (an office and guest room/office) and a bathroom.”

---“The Memphis tugboat captain said he was crossing the square of grass below the balcony of Becky’s bedroom/office when he saw her hanging there.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.” Pocket Books.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Bourne wrote that post in 2012- well before anyone knew that Ann Rule was in the late stages of Alzheimer's.

She was not in the late stages of Alzheimer's when she wrote the book - in 2012.

 

[inthedark14]

Double Post! Sorry!

 

[inthedark14]

So for whatever reason, Gore and the SDSO never mentioned this very telling piece of "collected evidence". They didn't include it in their powerpoint that they presented in September of 2011 and they didn't include anything about it when Gore held the second press conference where we were all informed that DS was located by cell phone triangulation.

Another thing to wrap the mind around. Why in the heck would they not do that? All this speculation, all this doubt one more thing (in addition to not giving anything more than cell phone triangulation for DS, but stating that JS WAS on video at Rady's) that they could have stated to dispel the questions and they did not. Why wouldn't they state these things?!

So NR was informed that this book that no one has ever heard about before was in the room where RZ died. This room was not her bedroom, it was a spare bedroom in which both her computer AND JS' were. That was the story back then, IIRC. This was the room that was on the same floor as their bedroom where their computers were.

So SDSO has this information and never releases it to the public while they are holding not one but two press conferences to explain RZ's death. Did they recover the book and it had absolutely no fingerprints and DNA on it so they could not prove RZ handled it? (and of course there WOULD be physical evidence on it if she had handled it). Was there ever a book at all??

Next question and I know I'm rambling here, but friends please bear with me. We've been speculated to that RZ and JS were into the Japanese rope tying. Was that the SPECIFIC subject of the mystery book? And if it was, if they were into that, why the heck would she need a book to tell her how to do the tying?

ALWAYS MOO

 

[Imp]

So for whatever reason, Gore and the SDSO never mentioned this very telling piece of "collected evidence". They didn't include it in their powerpoint that they presented in September of 2011 and they didn't include anything about it when Gore held the second press conference where we were all informed that DS was located by cell phone triangulation.

Another thing to wrap the mind around. Why in the heck would they not do that? All this speculation, all this doubt one more thing (in addition to not giving anything more than cell phone triangulation for DS, but stating that JS WAS on video at Rady's) that they could have stated to dispel the questions and they did not. Why wouldn't they state these things?!

So NR was informed that this book that no one has ever heard about before was in the room where RZ died. This room was not her bedroom, it was a spare bedroom in which both her computer AND JS' were. That was the story back then, IIRC. This was the room that was on the same floor as their bedroom where their computers were.

So SDSO has this information and never releases it to the public while they are holding not one but two press conferences to explain RZ's death. Did they recover the book and it had absolutely no fingerprints and DNA on it so they could not prove RZ handled it? (and of course there WOULD be physical evidence on it if she had handled it). Was there ever a book at all??

Next question and I know I'm rambling here, but friends please bear with me. We've been speculated to that RZ and JS were into the Japanese rope tying. Was that the SPECIFIC subject of the mystery book? And if it was, if they were into that, why the heck would she need a book to tell her how to do the tying?

ALWAYS MOO

Yep, another piece of evidence collected (according to some), but not tested, because after all, why would LE want to test a book on rope tying found in the room where a rope-bound dead woman had spent her last moments?

Either SDSO didn't test the rope-tying book (if it exists), or they did, and the results didn't fit their suicide ruling. Which of course means either there were fingerprints/DNA on the book other than Rebecca's, or the book had been wiped clean and no forensic evidence could be collected. If the book was tested and covered with RZ's prints/DNA, trust me, we would've heard about it.

With respect (not really), the folks preparing to defend themselves in this WDS better get with the program, because if the nonsense being floated here is headed for trial, well ...

Time to head back to the drawing board. Lordy.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Jonah had his own office.

(Thanks to Lash for finding this quote.)

---“Jonah Shacknai’s mansion had five stories. The lowest level was the basement; the first floor/main level consisted of a foyer, living room, sunroom, dining room, sitting area, butler’s pantry, kitchen, laundry room, and a half bath. The second floor had two bedrooms (an office and guest room/office) and a bathroom.”

---“The Memphis tugboat captain said he was crossing the square of grass below the balcony of Becky’s bedroom/office when he saw her hanging there.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.” Pocket Books.

- LE tried to keep the private details is RZ's and JS's sex life,private, as they should. That would include this book.

- Shibari is the type of rope bondage AnnRule mentioned. It involves specific tying and knotting.

 

[Imp]

I was just perusing some of the closed threads on the Zahau case, looking for information on all the evidence that was collected but not tested, and came across a thread titled "These are 'facts' because William Gore said Jonah Shacknai said so". Very clever title, IMO, and reflects my exact feelings regarding the "facts" and "evidence" and "investigative files" pertaining to this case. Jonah and/or his handlers whispered in Gore's ear, and those whispers formed the absolute foundation of the "investigation" into Rebecca's death. Despicable.

 

[Imp]

Perhaps the details of Rebecca's & Jonah's sex life, real or imagined, were another reason for Dina's all-out-of-proportion dislike and jealousy of RZ. If the silly rope thing was a hot button for Dina, it would certainly explain why RZ's body was found rope-bound.

Lots of puzzle pieces as to the why's and how's of RZ's killing are clicking into place the last couple of days.

 

[Waitaminute]

Greer believes that Rebecca was strangled
to death before she went over the balcony.
"When a person is hung, the rope is up here, on the upper part of the neck," Greer told
10News. "That cartilage was down here, at the base of the neck. So, that cartilage is more
consistent with a strangling type of death."

^. Her autopsy states "no sign of strangulation".

 

[CricketFern]

Ok. Just to be clear. Nina Romano's answer leaves out a few things:

-It does not say who the book belonged to. Just that it was a book found in a room RZ used as an office.
-It does not say Nina read in RZ's investigative file that SDSO found a book on rope binding method. Just that she was informed.
-It does not say SDSO took this book in as evidence.

I'd like to add that it also doesn't say that the particular knots used on Rebecca were even found in the book.

I have a four year old grandson and he is curious about everything. He has all sorts of books on how things work. For all we know it was a child's book on how to tie shoes that Max left behind!

I would think that if there REALLY was such a book, and it was deemed relevant, it would have been noted long before now.

 

[CricketFern]

It may not say any of that, but it does say how Rebecca learned to tie those knots.

Or maybe her murderers used it as a reference when tying her up!

You confuse what is fact and what is conjecture.

 

[K_Z]

Perhaps the details of Rebecca's & Jonah's sex life, real or imagined, were another reason for Dina's all-out-of-proportion dislike and jealousy of RZ. If the silly rope thing was a hot button for Dina, it would certainly explain why RZ's body was found rope-bound.

Lots of puzzle pieces as to the why's and how's of RZ's killing are clicking into place the last couple of days.

Yikes! I read your post, and the last stanza of Cell Block Tango blared in my head! Talk about tying up loose ends!

My sister, Veronica and
I had this double act
and my husband, Charlie,
traveled around with us.
Now, for the last number in
our act, we did 20 acrobatic tricks
one two three four,five...splits, spread eagles,
back flips,flip flops,
one right after the other.
Well, this one night we were in the hotel Cicero,
the three of us,
boozin' and
havin' a few laughs
when we run out of ice.
So I went out to get some.
I come back, open the door
and there's Veronica and
Charlie doing Number Seventeen-
the spread eagle.

Well, I was in such a state of shock,
I completely blacked out.I can't remember a thing.
It wasn't until later,
when I was washing the blood off my hands
I even knew they were dead.

They had it coming
They had it coming
They had it coming all along
I didn't do it
But if I'd done it
How could you tell me that I was wrong?

 

[Imp]

^^^I'm pickin up what you're puttin down, K_Z.

 

[justice be served]

Perhaps the details of Rebecca's & Jonah's sex life, real or imagined, were another reason for Dina's all-out-of-proportion dislike and jealousy of RZ. If the silly rope thing was a hot button for Dina, it would certainly explain why RZ's body was found rope-bound.

Lots of puzzle pieces as to the why's and how's of RZ's killing are clicking into place the last couple of days.

Excellent thought process and post. This case may be difficult to document for the plaintiffs but the truth rings through clearly enough for the jury to read the reality of what occurred. The passion of the posters speaks volumes for justice for Rebecca.

 

[Betty P]

[/B]

BBM I respectfully disagree. Playing along, how do you know Rebecca even read the book? Put it to use? Was it a gift? Was it tested? Anyone else's fingerprints happen to be on that book? Heck, what is the title of the book? Until specifics are known, this is by no means the "boom" that you think it is. If anything, it just leads to more questions.

Still playing along... let's say a book of surveillance avoidance magically appeared in one of the defendants' surroundings....

If anything, bringing up this book, alleged to have been found in the room, will only serve to make the SDSO investigation look flawed and incomplete. It will make jurors question why SDSO never tested it or attempted to find its owner.

Let's be realistic. Jurors are already going to be skeptical of the investigation. Every piece of "new" evidence that is introduced in the trial will be viewed with suspicion and doubt.

So much evidence was already ignored based solely on Jonah ' s statements and opinions. Jurors will be asking themselves why so much evidence was ignored and destroyed.

IMO, the book is just another red herring being tossed out by the defendants in the hope of distracting jurors and the public from the actual facts of the case.

ETA: If the book actually exists, it would be interesting to know if it has instructions for tying a tugboat hitch knot.

 

[K_Z]

A couple of interesting snippets of "evidence revealed during the course of the wrongful death action", via Adam's 79 page motion posted earlier today. Now it's clear that the "ex-parte" on Thursday, April 14 at 0845 is related to Adam's request during the demurrer hearing March 11.

From page 30 of 79, Mary's deposition answer to a question:

A. That Dina frequently wanted to interfere as far as when it comes to Max when Max was in their custody; and Becky frequently had to leave her work to go either do something for Max or pick up Max or some other errands; and it was causing stress periodically because they would have to drop or reschedule things because they had -- they were going to get Max and it wasn't their turn.

That's an interesting window into how Dina was treating the custody schedule-- expecting Rebecca and Jonah to often change their plans to take Max at the last minute. That's VERY interesting, IMO.

From page 27 of 79, Mary's answer:

And as far as her relationship with Jonah, all I know is what Becky told me that, you know, she was constantly either saying that she can't have Max and they have to pick her (sic) up or that she needed money to redecorate her house or things that I was told on phone conversations.

And from page 32 of 79, Mary's answer:

So I don't know any more about the fatal injuries about Max other than what's in the autopsy report. And then as far as the Dina Shacknai being jealous of the relationship, I mean why would there be an issue about Rebecca attending Max's school program if that wasn't an issue? Max wanted her to attend; and then it turned into a huge problem that she wasn't allowed to attend; and Dina didn't want her -- want her at the program; and it spiraled from there. I wasn't there for all of the incidences so I don ' t know the conversations of what happened. All I know was that there was a huge deal about it for days actually.

And the reason for Thursday's ex-parte meeting (from page 73 of 79):

·MR. GREER:· Yes, Your Honor.
·2· · · · · ·THE COURT:· And I have the parties scheduled to
·3· be back here on discovery issues.
·4· · · · · ·I'm not quite certain why I have a motion to
·5· reopen expert discovery.· It shouldn't be closed yet.
·6· · · · · ·MS. ENNS:· Are you talking about the
·7· August 5th --
·8· · · · · ·THE COURT:· Correct.
·9· · · · · ·MS. ENNS:· -- date?
10· · · · · ·That is a motion to advance the exchange for
11· experts -- expert information.
12· · · · · ·THE COURT:· Well, you haven't reached a
13· stipulation yet.· Why don't you talk about a stipulation
14· first before you set the motion?
15· · · · · ·MS. ENNS:· Because we wouldn't get a motion
16· hearing date until later --
17· · · · · ·THE COURT:· You come in here ex parte, and I'll
18· find you one.
19· · · · · ·MS. ENNS:· Thank you, Your Honor.