Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[Imp]

I am going to hazard a guess that no one cares a rats a@@ about their sex life. This is a murder allegation and that is what the general public and especially the jury will care about.

The giddiness at the idea that someone might be asked about his sex life on the witness stand, coupled with the apparent encyclopedic knowledge of ropes, rope tying, rope tying books, rope knots, "Shibari," ropes in sex play, ropes, ropes and more ropes ... is rather telling, yes? (Not to mention creepy in the extreme.)

 

[screecher]

absolutely, imp. yeppers.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The giddiness at the idea that someone might be asked about his sex life on the witness stand, coupled with the apparent encyclopedic knowledge of ropes, rope tying, rope tying books, rope knots, "Shibari," ropes in sex play, ropes, ropes and more ropes ... is rather telling, yes? (Not to mention creepy in the extreme.)

"Giddiness" is your interpretation of my post. I will not be "giddy" but will be very happy when these innocent people are exonerated on the witness stand by Jonah and it is proven that Rebecca killed herself and the Zahaus are made to look like the horrible, money-hungry people they are. But I would not call it "giddy".

It is called the internet, imp. I actually found that in less than 5 minutes. Not creepy at all.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

absolutely, imp. yeppers.

Again, how did Dina know what Jonah and Rebecca did in bed?

 

[BBL]

Again, how did Dina know what Jonah and Rebecca did in bed?

How do you know what Rebecca and Jonah did in bed? Can you provide the link that makes all this Shibari stuff relevant? Why do you harp on it so? Otherwise, looks like nautical knots to me. And, that is relevant.

 

[CricketFern]

And the Rope Tying book will have a publication date that shows it was not Dina's.

And since you claim to know the publication date would you care to share the title? I must say, you have quite the inside scoop on everything, don't you?!

 

[CricketFern]

I am going to hazard a guess that no one cares a rats a@@ about their sex life. This is a murder allegation and that is what the general public and especially the jury will care about.

I disagree Justice - there is someone who cares about their sex life. The person(s) who are trying to deflect attention from the true crime - murder - by making, among other things, salacious allegations.

I respect the posters here. ALMOST everyone seems to want to get to the truth of the matter. Only one poster seems to post with vehemence and downright hatred, all the while making questionable statements claiming them as actual fact. Also making statements only an insider or someone with a vested interest could be so sure of, because they certainly aren't supported by the facts the rest of us have read.

 

[CricketFern]

"Giddiness" is your interpretation of my post. I will not be "giddy" but will be very happy ...

Excuse me but "giddy" seems about right, after all, weren't you just posting yesterday or the day before that you considered certain aspects "hilarious"?

What could possibly explain your incredible hatred for the Zahaus - people you claim to not even know?

 

[Waitaminute]

that poster also noted that if Rebecca & Jonah's sex life came up in court it would be an 'interesting' day. Not my idea of interesting if ya know what I mean. I'm more interested in the whole murder/suicide thing.

Excuse me but "giddy" seems about right, after all, weren't you just posting yesterday or the day before that you considered certain aspects "hilarious"?

What could possibly explain your incredible hatred for the Zahaus - people you claim to not even know?

 

[CricketFern]

that poster also noted that if Rebecca & Jonah's sex life came up in court it would be an 'interesting' day. Not my idea of interesting if ya know what I mean. I'm more interested in the whole murder/suicide thing.

You have to wonder the motivation of anyone who would find that "interesting" or other aspects "hilarious". I find this a very serious matter, and personally, I'm not so naive I get sidetracked by irrelevant or extraneous details. Rebecca Zahaus' true cause of death, justice for her family, and punishment for the responsible parties is the true issue.

 

[K_Z]

I am going to hazard a guess that no one cares a rats a@@ about their sex life. This is a murder allegation and that is what the general public and especially the jury will care about.

Completely agree! Sex practices have been a salacious part of many trials, and in the end, matter how mundane, or "spicy", murder is still murder. I followed the Jane Bashara murder trial until her slimy husband Robert Bashara, who was into BDSM and a real life 3 way slave/ master thing, was convicted and put in prison for life. And of course there was all of the Jodi Arias sensationalism of her sex proclivities. After the initial volley of "details", it's all just a big yawn for the jury, IMO. Consensual sex practices that harm no one are just not even a big deal anymore.

IMO, even a casual perusal of shibari eroticism makes it obvious that Rebecca's death had little to nothing to do with "real" shibari. In fact, a real connoisseur of shibari wouldn't even think a comparison was appropriate, save that whoever tied up Rebecca may have done that to mock and ridicule her (and possibly Jonah), if they WERE known to be into shibari. (And who better to know if that was Jonah's "thing" than Dina?) And BTW-- "suspension" shibari is a particular niche variant of garden variety shibari, so just because it's theorized someone is into shibari, doesn't automatically mean they're into suspension play. That's a whole 'nother ball game entirely.

A real "submissive enthusiast" of shibari would never, ever tie themselves up, or even want to. Not even as a sloppy angry or despondent suicidal gesture, IMO. It's antithetical to the whole idea of shibari. That's why this persistent "oh my gosh! It's salacious! She tied herself up naked and jumped to her death to piss off Jonah" theme just doesn't impress me, or shock me, at all. And it doesn't pass the smell test-- it isn't logical or likely, IMO, so it has always seemed very contrived and staged to me. A message from the murderer/s to the victim, and to Jonah, IMO, both vindictive, and mocking. Just like the door message.

What I still find MOST shocking is that in a wealthy place like Coronado Island, that NO ONE from LE ever pitched a tent over Rebecca's body for 13+ hours, and that NO ONE from the ME's office could be bothered to show up for 13+ hours. That is both shocking, and outrageous incompetence-- so much so that one has to really question the effects of group confirmation bias that were at work within hours of her death.

Since I first heard about the shibari theory of Rebecca's bindings, I've always felt that the particular "way" she was bound nude and murdered was preceded by a lot of vicious taunting and confrontation about her and Jonah's sex life, as well as garden variety rage and scorn about Max's accident.

And IMO, if Adam really was hopped up on Ambien at the time of Rebecca's murder (at the peak of the drug effect, if he took it about 10-11 pm), he may not have a clear recollection of what was fantasy/ hallucination, and what was reality, in that situation-- especially given what he has reported about watching *advertiser censored* on his cell phone. I believe he was recruited into participating in Rebecca's murder by Dina and Nina. They were taunting and enticing his participation, IMO. Maybe they wanted his DNA all over the place as a decoy. Who knows?

Anyway, murder is murder. The symbolism in various sex practices is interesting, but the end result is the same. The jury isn't there to pass judgement on consensual adult sex practices.

And what Dina has to understand is that if she "goes there" about Jonah and Rebecca's sex life during this trial, then HERS will also be fair game. As in, hers and Jonah's sex life when they were married. And again, that will only make her look even more guilty to the jury, IMO.

 

[*Lash*]

Wash.Rinse.And.Repeat...Imo, it is another salacious faux detail to deflect and an attempt to shame. Not going to work, JMO.

 

[Frigga]

The thing with misplaced rage and revenge is it does not actually give relief to its suitor. It cannot assuage anything, nor can it change the cause for the out of control feelings. It can be white hot and unrelenting. Lashing out or seeking revenge does not bring relief. If a person has a conscience or the ability to feel empathy then it will only add to the out of control feelings and guilt.

I think Dina Shacknai is personality disordered but I don't think she's a sociopath or psychopath.

Brutally attacking and killing Rebecca would possibly bring a brief moment of relief but I do not think it would be lasting or fulfilling. It would be fleeting- at best- but time would go by and the reason for it all would still be dead, cremated and gone- as would any chance for Dina to have another child. I can only imagine the torment and the misguided ways she would attempt to avoid all the new feelings added to the already never ending grief, rage and sadness. It would be like living in a mental hell- I would think.

Time will not heal or diminish this type of psychic wound, IMO. If Dina manages to get away with Rebecca's murder in court- does she actually get away from any of it- in reality? I don't think so because I don't think she is without a conscience.

I want her held accountable for the sake of Rebecca's loved ones but it doesn't bring Rebecca back either. No one really wins anything in the end.

Dina was handed a life lesson- for whatever reason and she blew it, IMOO. She didn't learn from it, grow from it or rise above it.

In the end she became what she accuses Rebecca of... she became a murderer. I'm only grateful Max wasn't conscious to know that about his beloved mother.

He does now though- I wonder if he comes to her in her dreams... and how that goes.

 

[Imp]

<snipped to address>

Since I first heard about the shibari theory of Rebecca's bindings, I've always felt that the particular "way" she was bound nude and murdered was preceded by a lot of vicious taunting and confrontation about her and Jonah's sex life, as well as garden variety rage and scorn about Max's accident.

This is what has been dawning on me this past week (obviously I'm way behind the curve!). It seems clear from her supporters that Dina's jealousy and anger toward Rebecca extended to her sex life with Jonah, and she apparently believes, whether or not it was true, that ropes were involved. When I match up Dina's well-publicized hot buttons about Rebecca and her words about Max's accident (he was "assaulted" and "torpedoed"), and throw in the third-person message painted on the door, the manner in which Rebecca died comes into pretty clear focus.

 

[Waitaminute]

I certainly do love the sound of your heart in the things you write.

The thing with misplaced rage and revenge is it does not actually give relief to its suitor. It cannot assuage anything, nor can it change the cause for the out of control feelings. It can be white hot and unrelenting. Lashing out or seeking revenge does not bring relief. If a person has a conscience or the ability to feel empathy then it will only add to the out of control feelings and guilt.

I think Dina Shacknai is personality disordered but I don't think she's a sociopath or psychopath.

Brutally attacking and killing Rebecca would possibly bring a brief moment of relief but I do not think it would be lasting or fulfilling. It would be fleeting- at best- but time would go by and the reason for it all would still be dead, cremated and gone- as would any chance for Dina to have another child. I can only imagine the torment and the misguided ways she would attempt to avoid all the new feelings added to the already never ending grief, rage and sadness. It would be like living in a mental hell- I would think.

Time will not heal or diminish this type of psychic wound, IMO. If Dina manages to get away with Rebecca's murder in court- does she actually get away from any of it- in reality? I don't think so because I don't think she is without a conscience.

I want her held accountable for the sake of Rebecca's loved ones but it doesn't bring Rebecca back either. No one really wins anything in the end.

Dina was handed a life lesson- for whatever reason and she blew it, IMOO. She didn't learn from it, grow from it or rise above it.

In the end she became what she accuses Rebecca of... she became a murderer. I'm only grateful Max wasn't conscious to know that about his beloved mother.

He does now though- I wonder if he comes to her in her dreams... and how that goes.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

So law enforcement find a book on rope play in Rebecca's office, and automatically it must be Dina's and Dina must be obsessed with Jonah and Rebecca's sex life|

Man, that's rich. :laughcry:

 

[Betty P]

Question for Lucky. If, as you allege, Rebecca tied her self up, Shibari-style, with ropes before jumping off the balcony in the nude, why would she use some old ski towing rope purchased from a sporting goods store? From the photos you posted, it appears people who engage in that practice use special ropes. I'm guessing they buy ropes made particularly for that purpose.

If, as you imply, RZ and JS engaged in those practices, it seems logical they would have a supply of special ropes used for that purpose. So why would Rebecca be bound and hung with a rope retrieved from someone's boat or a sporting goods store? (I've never believed the ridiculous story from SDSO that they identified the ski rope as coming from the garage, because there was an "open space on the shelf: there. Uh, huh. Very scientific)

The short answer is, RZ wouldn't do that if there were already "special ropes" at the mansion.

Following that train of thought, the killers used a ski rope (IMO likely purchased before arriving at the mansion) because they needed a long piece of rope for the noose and hanging. When they arrived at the mansion and found no Shibari ropes there, they had to improvise. They used the ski rope and carefully measured and cut it to ensure they would have enough.

Same hinky feeling about the paints and brushes found at the scene with a bag and receipt. RZ would have kept her paints and brushes stored with her art supplies, not laying about in a craft store bag. I wonder if SDSO kept the bag and receipt found with the paints? It would be interesting to see where and when it was purchased.

This murder was planned and the killers arrived at the mansion with, not all, but some of the tools they needed to commit the crime. They had time to plan and carry it out, plenty of time to clean up, plant evidence and get their stories straight. I still think they had some outside advice after the crime was committed to stage the scene and make a plan for when and how to proceed the following morning.

JMO, of course.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

You would need to ask Rebecca why she used the rope from the garage. Perhaps she had used it before. Perhaps they did not have special ropes.

How do you know Rebecca would have kept her paints with her painting supplies, not in a craft store bag? Do you have a link?

Rebecca was her own murderer and had everything she needed right there. It could have been done in less than 30 minutes, as proved by Ch08.

 

[Betty P]

Sorry, Lucky, I'm not buying that.

Your photo reminds us again of the mud and dirt on RZ's feet and the rought, cheap plastic rope used to bind her legs.

How and why would Rebecca:

Take a shower in the master bath
Pull out a clump of hair and leave it on the shower well
Lay out her clothes for the next day in the master bedroom
Run out into the back courtyard to roll around in the grass and muddy her feet and hands, then get her back scratched up by branches/bushes
Run back into the house and up to the balcony bedroom
Bind her legs with duct tape; remove the duct tape and dispose of it somewhere outside the mansion property
Dispose of her dirty clothing worn that day somewhere outside of the mansion property
Retrieve a ski rope (allegedly from the garage); measure the rope and cut it into exact lengths
Bind her legs with rope in a cleat hitch knot with part of the ski rope
Attach the rope to the bed
Arrange a tug boat hitch knot into a noose around her neck
Wrap a shirt around her neck on top of the noose to stuff in her mouth
Retrieve her paints and brushes, hop over to the door and use them to paint the bizarre message
Smear some paint on her nipples and some how smear some on the middle of her back
Scatter some dryer sheets, gloves and a blanket and miscellanous other items on the floor,
Hop around some more, then tie the t-shirt and place the gag in her mouth
Tie the rough ski rope in the elaborate knot around her wrist
Find a way to strike 4 blows to her own head
Then hop to the door and catapult herself across the balcony and over the railing

I'm sure I've left a few things out, but no one can do all that in 30 minutes.

It would take at least an hour or so to dispose of her clothing and the duct tape she used to bind herself, then return to the mansion.
When she went to dispose of the duct tape and soiled clothing, did she leave the house in the nude or did she put on another outfit for the trip?

 

[Imp]

^^^Betty P: Great post and great reminder of the utter absurdity of the suicide ruling.